We should take a lead from Europe

[ozelise]

It never ceases to impress me the way European cities embrace cycling, and the respect motorists and pedestrians give cyclists. Bikes are rarely locked, and cycling lanes are abundant especially in the heart of most cities. I know you all know this, just wish we could have the same respect, facilities and philosophy downunder. Just took this in Copenhagen outside a suburban Metro:

http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/ajing/ers71.jpg

[Pete J]

As good as it would be for Australian cities to be more bicycle friendly, i think that it will never actually become a reality. We are a nation built on the love of the automobile after all. It would take a ban on unnecessary traffic in cbd/inner city areas to bring about the right conditions. From there things would evolve nicely but realistically i'd say hell would freeze over first. Which is a damn shame because the weather down under is far more suited to cycle transport in the first place.

[RaID]

dont forget that australian cities are in a lot of cases much larger area wise hence commuting by bike for a lot of people appears way too far. On the other hand european cities are much more densely populated which makes cycling more appealing due to the already existent congestion

[DarrenHunt]

I believe it to be the pure lack of infrastructure for cycling. The NSW govt. is removing lanes through lane cove to push more cars through the tunnel, why can't they do the same to push people to cycle, it really wouldnt be that hard, but in reality, the money grubbers wont make a dime from it, they'd most likely lose revenue and hence its never going to happen.

[toby]

I honestly believe that change in Australian capital cities will happen eventually.. it will just take time.

Even in America its happening, case Las Vegas, which had the worst infrastucture for cyclists a few years ago and now has one of the best. Most buses now have bike racks which allow you to travel longer distances and combine the forms of transport.

The reality is many factors are going to conspire to make cycling more attractive to people in urban areas and the tide will turn when more people take it up as a form of transportation. Already in Sydney you are starting to see a dramatic increase in some areas, (note the inner west) but the local/state government is taking far to long to upgrade the roads.

The only to really get effective change in government is through effective lobbying, and its up the the bicycle fund, cycling organisations etc to put the pressure on..And this doesnt happen unless they have the funds!

[funky]

dont forget that australian cities are in a lot of cases much larger area wise hence commuting by bike for a lot of people appears way too far. On the other hand european cities are much more densely populated which makes cycling more appealing due to the already existent congestion

Ummmm Yes and No.

Not sure where that picture is taken. From my experience, that tends to happen at train stations, or other key areas.

While the cities are more densely populated, you also find that a lot of people commute into the city from small towns for work etc. What then tends to happen is, they ride to the train station / bus terminal. dump their bike. Catch bus / train, into the city, and then repeat at the end of the day.

To increase cycling, you need to do lots of things. ie, improve infrastructure (roads, storage facilities, changerooms), public transport etc.

[Carlin]

We are a nation built on the love of the automobile after all.

In 40 000 odd years of Aboriginal history and 220 odd years of European history cars have only really been accessible since the late 1930's and of course after the second world war.

The pre-Federation nation building of the 1890s was a pretty car free time.

Granted the car has had a pretty significant impact since its introduction to the Australian cityscape. Like a feral animal or noxious weed it quickly pushed trams and bicycles out of the way as the transport of the working class. In all cities but Melbourne Trams became extinct, and pockets of bicycles cling to small sub-cultures. The mobility of the car created a new habitat of suburbia, where walking was no longer an option and the distance between work and home increased.

However the car opend up new links and spaces. Beach Culture was built on the possibility of the family car to bring the suburbs to the beach. It changed the way and the places where Australians could spend their leisure time. People were no longer stuck to train lines to the Blue Mountains to experience Nature and the outback.

The urban landscape relies on the car to function, and this creates a car culture. A Car culture in turn blinds us to alternatives, and we keep creating a world based around the motor car.

[McBain]

Ahh, Copenhagen (http://copenhagengirlsonbikes.blogspot.com/). Yes please.

[ozelise]

That is exactly how it is! Spent a good hour sitting in the Square getting an eyeful while the missus shopped.

[iscarrr]

Ahh, Copenhagen (http://copenhagengirlsonbikes.blogspot.com/). Yes please.

Awesome site, cheers :)

Anyway back on topic, yes things are getting better but they have a long way to go. Just imagine some of the girls on that blog site above trying to ride throught the streets of sydney, gotta be pretty damn brave to take on some of the crap ive seen/experienced when riding up there.

[scblack]

In 40 000 odd years of Aboriginal history and 220 odd years of European history cars have only really been accessible since the late 1930's and of course after the second world war.

The pre-Federation nation building of the 1890s was a pretty car free time.

Granted the car has had a pretty significant impact since its introduction to the Australian cityscape. Like a feral animal or noxious weed it quickly pushed trams and bicycles out of the way as the transport of the working class. In all cities but Melbourne Trams became extinct, and pockets of bicycles cling to small sub-cultures. The mobility of the car created a new habitat of suburbia, where walking was no longer an option and the distance between work and home increased.

Prior to the car being such a mass vehicle, HORSES and carts were the main form of transport.;)

The roads required for then were basically the same structure as now (but not paved back in those days). Of course distances travelled have changed, but the roads were already in place.:)

[dain2772]

That site actually hits on a pretty important point - the people you see cycling as transport in european countries, ie denmark, france, italy etc, are all wearing their normal clothes.... This is because they largely commute shorter distances and in flatter areas. you look at the cycle commuters here in australia and they are generally kitted out in cycling gear and therefore have to change into something else when they get to work, which means having to transport clothes and have a shower at work.

if we did have better cycle paths, then this would be a closer reality, but still only for people travelling the shorter distances (say less than 5 km) and in flatter areas....

I personally don't commute on a bike because of the hassle involved in having to store it somewhere, bring all my work clothes (suits) in a backpack and having to shower at work. I wouldn't ever ride in work clothes because the hills involved would be too much to do in work clothes.

I think encouraging people to ride the short distances to train stations and the like is a really good idea though, and given the number of cars at most suburban train stations, would be a good way of reducing traffic and parking woes.

[skybustim]

After working and travelling through Europe a lot. A big factor, especially in Copenhagen and somewhere like Amsterdam, they are flat, hence all the single speeds.
And as has been mentioned, they are not the urban sprawls like we have here, if people do live in the suburbs then they tend to use public transport. This is a big hole in Australian public transport, yes I am involved in it, there is not enough tranpsort from small towns, which are now becoming parts of the city, into central areas.
Anyone who has been to Amsterdam, compare it to the way transport is handled in Melbourne, both cities have the same modes, but the Dutch handle it all much better, including integrating different transport modes such as bike racks at stations, and generally places to leave bikes anywhere.

[Turner_rider]

The roads required for then were basically the same structure as now (but not paved back in those days). Of course distances travelled have changed, but the roads were already in place.:)

Not sure that is strictly true.

If you look at a road infrastructure map of any major Australian centre say from 1970 to current day, there are in most cases massive differences, all bought on by population boom and the car as an enabling device for urban sprawl.

[toby]

Ahh, Copenhagen (http://copenhagengirlsonbikes.blogspot.com/). Yes please.


great site...! I'm going to belgium in a week for two weeks break and intend on doing a photo story on bikes and their riders. thanks for some inspiration!

[scblack]

Not sure that is strictly true.

If you look at a road infrastructure map of any major Australian centre say from 1970 to current day, there are in most cases massive differences, all bought on by population boom and the car as an enabling device for urban sprawl.
You are right of course.:)

But in essence, roads have been around for hundreds of years. A road like the F3 would have been folly in the days of horses. Roads in the Sydney CBD (for example) though would be not that much changed for about a hundred years though.

[rhysrhysbaby]

Ahh, Copenhagen (http://copenhagengirlsonbikes.blogspot.com/). Yes please.


ill support anything that gets cute girls on nice old town bikes!!

[funky]

You are right of course.:)

But in essence, roads have been around for hundreds of years. A road like the F3 would have been folly in the days of horses. Roads in the Sydney CBD (for example) though would be not that much changed for about a hundred years though.

Location maybe... ability to handle different loads... definitely not.

A roads ability to take a horse and cart to a semi trailer / bus etc, is very very different.

The impact of a car a car compared with a bus / truck is negligible. A horse and cart compared with with a car is also negligible.

[toby]

http://cycleliciousness.blogspot.com/

there is a great video on this blog about copenhagen

[ozelise]

After working and travelling through Europe a lot. A big factor, especially in Copenhagen and somewhere like Amsterdam, they are flat, hence all the single speeds.


A lot of single speed as expected, but also a very high % of Nexus hubs, which is really what they were designed for.

[Trevor_S]

It never ceases to impress me the way European cities embrace cycling,

Lack of urban sprawl, something we have yet to come to grips with here in Aus where we have unfortunately followed the poor American model. Lots of people aspire to a 1/4 acre block with a McMansion in the 'burbs. Bring on well designed medium density housing, with people living close to where they work.

A lack of facilities eg no place to shower and change in a hot NQ puts lots of people of cycling to work up here

With Oil getting more expensive and the price of petrol going up, we may see a change in philosophy where medium density housing and cycling becomes more ubiquitous in Cities.

[dcrofty]

Bit of a dig but anyway...

How cool would this be if it went ahead?
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/going-green-with-a-cycleway-above-the-streets/2007/12/16/1197740096705.html

[DarrenHunt]

it would be great but think about it for just one second.

$30 million for 2km.. now wtf is the point.

these are things that sure they are kinda good but dont really make a great difference... it is all so the govt can look good for a second.

if we want cycleways throughout sydney and they are going to cost $15m a km... we're farked.

[Oracle]

Bit of a dig but anyway...

How cool would this be if it went ahead?
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/going-green-with-a-cycleway-above-the-streets/2007/12/16/1197740096705.html

Hmmm, if it's anything like my daily commute, where pedestrians stagger all over the path or feel it's necessary to walk 3-4 abreast, it would drive me mad. At least on the ground you can usually pass without having to stop/slow down, whereas on a sky bridge there'd be no chance. :cool:

Also $30M seems a bit extravagent for a cycle path, just shut down an outbound (in the morning) and an inbound (in afternoon) city traffic lane. I think/hope some city motorists may take up the option of cycling once they realise it may be faster to ride than being stuck in traffic!

[axertes]

So I'm not the only one that is turned on by chicks on bikes?

When I was in places like Nederlands and Denmark people couldn't believe that chicks don't ride bikes. It's pretty well almost socially unacceptable here. I do live in Toowoomba though (uckyuk).

I <3 KBH

[wtp-addict]

It never ceases to impress me the way European cities embrace cycling, and the respect motorists and pedestrians give cyclists. Bikes are rarely locked, and cycling lanes are abundant especially in the heart of most cities. I know you all know this, just wish we could have the same respect, facilities and philosophy downunder. Just took this in Copenhagen outside a suburban Metro:

http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/ajing/ers71.jpg

Are you talking about melbourne?

everytime i go there... all i see is bikes bikes bikes bikes

[Binaural]

Europe seems full of stunning girls who ride bikes (I've known a few of them). You can't ride around Amsterdam for more than a couple of minutes without seeing gorgeous, tall Dutch girls with cute accents riding everywhere on their grandma's bike. Fit girls are hot!

I agree with a few of the previous posters who've commented that the lack of bikes is directly related to sprawl. Around the area I live in Sydney (inner west) the housing density is higher and people tend to live closer to where they work, so you see heaps of riders heading to work in the mornings. When I get out into the northern suburbs, this tails off to virtually nothing, presumably because people there are wealthier on average, work office type jobs and the extra distance means showering at work.

Regarding the 30 million cycleway up from the harbour bridge - I do that run every morning, but I don't see very many others doing it. Most commuters are heading to their offices and shops in north sydney and have to go through the back streets anyway. It's pretty common for me to pass through there and and see only one or two bikes on and around that section of road. There might be more after the cycleway, but it's hard to justify it over making a series of bike lanes through the back streets (and there are some there already).

[Rik]

Also $30M seems a bit extravagent for a cycle path, just shut down an outbound (in the morning) and an inbound (in afternoon) city traffic lane.In this case it makes a lot of sense, the roads off the bridge are convoluted and the cycleway is a nightmare!

It'd be nice to see as many cyclists coming in from the north as there are from the (inner) west. It's inspiring to watch the constant flow of bikes over ANZAC bridge in to the city.

[sean_23]

It's a good idea to connect the Gore Hill Fwy/Epping Rd cycleway to the city properly. The missing link through Lane Cove is opening early next year but there's no easy safe route up through North Sydney. And it'd be nice not to have to go down the steps at Milsons Point... all that wasted elevation!

Maybe $30M for 2kms of cycleway is a bit over the top but when was the last time a bike path was front page news? It's all good stuff and gets people thinking.

[Misplaced]

Need a bit of forwardthinking from employers and corporations to include showers in all their building fit outs too.

Still a dismal amount of CBD buildings with showers (and the ones that do have, have a dismal amount of showers in them)

I know that puts off a lot of us office types.

[dcrofty]

if we want cycleways throughout sydney and they are going to cost $15m a km... we're farked.

Yeah but this one is a bit different in that its elevated and therefore costs a lot more than usual. Most Cycleways aren't going to cost anywhere near that.

I was just happy to see people talking about improving cycling infrastructure, especially in that area as, as some have pointed out, is a bit of a shambles for bikes

[Ty]

The first time i was Amsterdam i thought I'd landed in another world, besides the obvious Amsterdam stuff (clog and windmills of course), the amount of bikes and the integration of bikes into people regular life just amazed me.

and while we do have problems with urban sprawl here in Australia, that doesn't mean a decent public transport network can't be built up that integrates light rail, buses cars and cycling.

here a few pics to stir some ideas

Bike only ferry service.
Secure bike lockers at train stations so you can ride your "nice bike" to work (about AUD$30 a month with a electronic key card), although most people just use the regular open bike park) also showers and small lockers available.
Traffic lights to allow cyclists some chance on the road.
Rural cycleways (obligatory windmill and dyke in this one)

[Rik]

Does she know you talk about her like that behind her back? :eek:

[Ty]

Does she know you talk about her like that behind her back? :eek:

yeah i thought about that as i typed it. better than "obligatory cow" though

[Oracle]

yeah i thought about that as i typed it. better than "obligatory cow" though :eek: haha!

I must say (from what I've read/seen on the box) the Netherlands certainly appear to have their cycling infrastructure well sorted. And for a country as rich as ours, we'd certainly be able to emulate them if the population really wanted too... although I won't hold my breath :rolleyes:

[Ty]

one of the best ideas that i saw but i didn't get a chance to snap a picture of was a rubbish bin that was like a fish landing net, maybe 4-5 feet in diameter, and it was angled with the opening towards the cyclist (against the direction of travel (most bike lanes are broken up into left and right like a proper road)) so it was really easy to throw/place your rubbish in the bin without slowing down.

and just to demonstrate how much cycling influences the culture (in Germany this time)
pre mixed Shandie's, about 3.5%, pretty damn tasty mid ride.

[DarrenHunt]

Yeah but this one is a bit different in that its elevated and therefore costs a lot more than usual. Most Cycleways aren't going to cost anywhere near that.

I was just happy to see people talking about improving cycling infrastructure, especially in that area as, as some have pointed out, is a bit of a shambles for bikes


it obvious why it costs more... but why does it need to be raised like that?

i think some things like this is what makes sydney a beautiful city... for a cycle path it looks great.

however they're missing the point with the whole "getting people to cycle"

just like the info in the paper a few weekends ago where the mayor of sydney hired a fella to propose a redesign of the city... sure thats good and well but i'm guessing that process cost several million $ of which none has gone to anything you and i couldn't have figured out in 5 minutes with a pencil and napkin.

[dcrofty]

it obvious why it costs more... but why does it need to be raised like that?

From the article
The council hopes that by bypassing North Sydney's hilly streets, traffic congestion and car pollution, many more people will walk or ride to work.

however they're missing the point with the whole "getting people to cycle"

How?

just like the info in the paper a few weekends ago where the mayor of sydney hired a fella to propose a redesign of the city... sure thats good and well but i'm guessing that process cost several million $ of which none has gone to anything you and i couldn't have figured out in 5 minutes with a pencil and napkin.

I'll guarantee it cost nowhere near that amount. And I'm not an Urban planner so my napkin skills are somewhat lacking

[Some Guy]

Bike only ferry service.
Secure bike lockers at train stations so you can ride your "nice bike" to work (about AUD$30 a month with a electronic key card), although most people just use the regular open bike park) also showers and small lockers available.
Traffic lights to allow cyclists some chance on the road.
Rural cycleways (obligatory windmill and dyke in this one)

Funny, we have all of those in Victoria too. Although I will say we don't have as many as we should. And the bike ferry no longer runs on weekdays.

[DarrenHunt]

I'm not trying to dispute that its a good thing... its just that its too extravegant(sp) to start... why start with a raised $15m a km path, when you can start on street level.. then when thats built up go to fancy paths.

From the article
The council hopes that by bypassing North Sydney's hilly streets, traffic congestion and car pollution, many more people will walk or ride to work.

How do people get to the start of north sydney though... thats what i find silly.



How?


like i said above... most people wont live within a stone throw of the start of this cycleway... so for it to become usefull they must put in other cycleways up the highway, through lane cove (on the agenda), off to mosman etc.



I'll guarantee it cost nowhere near that amount. And I'm not an Urban planner so my knapkin skills are somewhat lacking


from a perspective of working in an engineering environment... it woulda cost 100x as much as you think.

[Rik]

why does it need to be raised like that?Simple... go visit the north side of the bridge, and picture what 2km of elevated pathway could do for cycling convenience.
Right now you come along the bridge, have to descend the stairs at Milsons Pt, weave your way through a busy narrow street to a roundabout, turn up a one way street travelling the wrong way - yes it's marked cycleway - then pick through a few busy and dodgy sections before reaching clear road again.
Not something for anyone but an avid cyclist, I'd say...

By the sounds of this, the pathway allow you to keep your elevation instead of walking down stairs only to climb back up as high as you were, and it misses some pretty unpleasant roads too.
Winner.

[Oddjob]

Ahh, Copenhagen (http://copenhagengirlsonbikes.blogspot.com/). Yes please.

I'm in love!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2023/1629339626_fd9cb2c3a2.jpg?v=0

[dcrofty]

from a perspective of working in an engineering environment... it woulda cost 100x as much as you think.

OK I might have understated my napkin skills a little. I've got a geography degree and work for a large Sydney council (who were nice enough to let me take leave for 15 months) so I'm not completely ignorant of some the processes involved.

The exact merits of the project itself are obviously debatable as shown in this thread but I guess I'm just saying that I found it cool that people could discuss spending large amounts of money on cycling infrastructure.

Total coincidence, I'm sitting in front of the TV whilst typing this and there is an feature on the Canadian equivalent of the ABC about the bike rental programs that are growing in Paris.

[ozelise]

Total coincidence, I'm sitting in front of the TV whilst typing this and there is an feature on the Canadian equivalent of the ABC about the bike rental programs that are growing in Paris.

This is how my wife and I got around Lyon. Absolutely brilliant.

http://www.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/03_26/Velo_Station_Lyon.jpg

[DarrenHunt]

Once again i'm going to say, dont get me wrong... great idea... in my eyes its been wrongly executed... along the timeline i think it needs to happen kind of thing, but i'm trying to see the justification in the money when there are so many cheaper things that can be done.

I think this is absolutely brilliant in overcoming the problem of getting into the city from the northside... but the biggest problem is... where the hell do the cyclists go once in the city? thats my issue

[barneroo]

Ummmmmm...
Women ride bikes in Australia too.
I've been doing it for 15 years and I haven't been shunned from society yet...

So I'm not the only one that is turned on by chicks on bikes?

When I was in places like Nederlands and Denmark people couldn't believe that chicks don't ride bikes. It's pretty well almost socially unacceptable here. I do live in Toowoomba though (uckyuk).

I <3 KBH

[Binaural]

Ummmmmm...
Women ride bikes in Australia too.
I've been doing it for 15 years and I haven't been shunned from society yet...

Neither has my girlfriend, but her euro insistence on having a basket has made it a near things at times :)

[alchemist]

I've been doing it for 15 years and I haven't been shunned from society yet...

We had noticed, but you probably ride too fast for axertes to see ;)
http://singlespeed.smugmug.com/photos/125679442-L.jpg