Commuters and messengers - let's talk about skitching.

[Techno Destructo]

I'd like to just hear some people talk about it. Experiences, tips, techniques, horror stories, thoughts, etc...

I've done it on occasion on my commute from North Manly to Newtown... usually along Military Road. Only with large vehicles with easy hand-holds. I know large vehicles can't do sharp acceleration or movements to try to shake you off. Usually things like large trucks.

A technique I've seen a bit is people reaching down and grabbing the wheel-well of a vehicle... has anyone here done that?

Has anybody had significantly negative reactions from drivers when doing it?

Does anybody do it regularly with small vehicles? Like holding onto spoilers, sides of ute trays, or even those wheel wells?

And just to clear the air here, people... it IS illegal and dangerous, so I'm telling you NOT to do it. But for the people who already do... I'd love to hear from you about it.

[Some Guy]

If I were you I wouldn't be talking about my illegal activities on a public forum.

[johnny]

You're not him.


I do it a little bit over here. The traffic moves much slower here than it does in most Aussie cities. I usually go for busses, they're firsted only by cabbies for aggressive driving. I found that if you tried to slingshot yourself off from their side, it tends to drag your wheels in toward the vehicle. Scared crap out of me the first time I did it.

[Binaural]

I've caught a few rides on cars, but usually with permission. I recall once skitching out of Galston gorge on the back of a fishing boat trailer with a DH bike, my arms nearly fell off! Have done it a few times on semi trailers and buses where there's a good handhold, and only up to 30km/hr or so because it's a bit dodgy when they start changing gears.

Some guy - I don't know if skitching is specifically illegal, would be interested to know!

[Ryan]

Here's the thing, your tyre clips their tyre and you are pretty much a dead certainty to be sucked under. Then you're pretty much ten different kinds of fucked.

If you insist on doing it, use a handhold that keeps your wheel a safe distance away from there wheel.

[jasco]

I do it every now and then, but my first tip is don't do it when you're on a fixie unless you're sure of what you're doing. Unpredictable outcomes may occur.

I really only do it if I'm in a hurry and there is something very easy to catch, other wise I'm happy to doddle along at my own pace.

[Samy]

I havn't done it for a few years but used to do it when younger and sillier.

It was always on local hills, and the rush of being hauled up the steepest hill in my area at 50-60km an hour was pretty intense.

I would do it on my downhill bike as there was around a 2-3min DH urban run back down the other side.

One day though, I waited at the roundabout at the bottm, for my veihcle of choice as usual, and as a fairly large truck rolled up with a good grip near the back, I latched on to begin the journey. The hill rolls up in 2 steep stages linked with shorter flat sections and just after the first steep section the driver started swerving all over the road, which threw me free of my grip. For some reason I didn't link his swerving to my free ride and with the speed gained, I was able to catch him again as it got steep. Once I was back on it happened again - he was driving all over the shop to shake me off, which he did successfully, and I ended up in the ditch. He stopped the truck, only to yell abuse so I took off back down the hill, and there was no way he was turning that truck back around from the position he was in.

I don't recall ever doing it again.:o

[Rik]

No chance... if I can't pedal to keep up with it I'm not going to hang on to it.

[jamisparker]

I was grinding up hill to a set of traffic lights and a truck was taking off slowly so I decided I was gonna get a lift. Then he saw me and started to swerve to the left to try and shake me off it was pretty scary becasue I was up against a wall. Im sure there is a better technique as well :rolleyes:

[johnny]

I don't understand what the dealio is with them swerving. Do they not want you there because you might get hurt? So what do they do, swerve and drive dangerously in the hope that you'll get whipped off..., kind of what they didn't want to happen anyway. Here, they just wave out the window and I let go, no probs.

Anyway, why should the trucky give a shit whether you're hanging on or not. It's your neck and you're the one who'll get busted, not him/her.

[Techno Destructo]

Some guy - I don't know if skitching is specifically illegal, would be interested to know!

Yeah, it is. I checked. It falls under the category of the bicycle rider being towed by another vehicle.

But then again, people talk all the time about how they ride without helmets and/or on the footpath, and those are both illegal as well (unless your 10 years of age or younger, or something like that) and we don't make a comment.

But let me reiterate... you are playing with fire when skitching. Death or being arrested. So don't do it.

Back on topic... I've never actually waited around for an opportunity to skitch... It's just when riding along, if I can match a suitable vehicle with an easy hand-hold that I latch onto. And even then, I've done it only rarely and for a few seconds. Mostly due to fear that the driver would do something wacky if they saw me. But it's been a blast each time I've done it. I just saw Lucas Brunelle's latest video where he's doing it in Mexico City, on the freeway, and they're just FLYING. Very impressive.:eek: After seeing that, I've had the urge to try it a little more and for a little longer.

By the way, I've titled this thread starting with "Commuters and messengers..." so as to make the title long enough that the word "skitching" would never be seen in the forum index if looking at the entry for the Cross-Country/Road forum from the top level of the forums. Combined with the fact it's in this particular part of the forums, I'm hoping that only mature, older riders actually open this thread. ;)

[Techno Destructo]

I found that if you tried to slingshot yourself off from their side, it tends to drag your wheels in toward the vehicle. Scared crap out of me the first time I did it.


Johnny, did you have front shocks on when you did this? I imagine if you did, that slingshotting would cause your front forks to dive slightly possibly causing the direction change. But I'm only guessing here. FYI I'm doing this on my 700c full rigid commuter with high psi skinny road tires.

[sly_artichoke]

The traffic moves much slower here than it does in most Aussie cities.


Well, that sounds like a more civilised part of the world....

Have tried it a couple of times, and very briefly, hanging on to the rear indicator bulb thingies on buses. But as other correspondents have attested, it can be a bit scary as the front wheel dives.

[ja_har]

I seem to recall Rick Boyer breaking his leg, being choppered out of buller or some place and rehab for 6months a few years ago as a result of skitching...

That's a warning of the downside...

But it can be fun:rolleyes:

[rhysrhysbaby]

Trams are good to skitch as they can't swerve to throw you off. They do like to accelerate in an effort to get you off though.

The last time I skitched was onto my mates car as we were going from a school up to my house. Its about a 3km trip.
Around corners. Up hills and at 60km at times. My arm was aching by the end of it. I probably wouldn't do that in a hurry again. Bit scary

[istepinyards]

One of the great things about living in Phoenix is the abundance of VERY large SUV's to hold onto. Great for towing/skitching whilst being very late for college.
But alas college is but a distant memory, 8 years and 35 pounds ago, Scottsdale police hate cyclists in general so don't even bother talking your way out of the fine:mad:

[jamisparker]

Dosen;t holding on to trams mean you have to battle with tram tracks :eek:

[mongoosedh]

Dosen;t holding on to trams mean you have to battle with tram tracks :eek:

:eek: Thats why you have wheels! :eek:

[Graunched]

I used to do a bit of it when i was working as a courier but only really on the arterial roads heading back into town.

As for horror stories only the one of my own when i was just starting to learn 'how to'. Was cruising along at around 50 - 60 km hanging onto a very long truck with 2 trailers. I was scanning from the road up to the side mirrors to see whether or not the driver had realised i was there. Anyhow he spotted me and continually started glancing back in my direction, then he started to accelerate. Due to it being a 4 lane road, us being in one of the middle lanes i was hanging onto the rear right hand corner of the last trailer slightly rear of the truck so i didnt hang over into the right hand lane beside me too much.
Anyway he just kept accelerating and i had another scan further up the road and saw traffic banked up at the next set of lights, thought something wasn't right with the picture and swung off from behind the truck into the right hand lane. As i did so the driver slammed on the breaks. Had i been any later swinging off i would have ended up the arse of the truck which would have been pretty painfull.

I have learnt from that occasion

1. if you have to hang over into another lane do so
2. If the driver starts glancing back at you in the mirrors repeatedly its usually a bad sign and your ride may well be over


As for other horror stories, 1 other workmate got his wedding ring caught inside the tray of a ute and had to hang on until the guy pulled up at the next set of lights and another workmate got chased by a guy in a small truck up and along the pavement before he found a set of stairs to run up.

Some drivers seem not to mind having a hanger on but others get a bit psycho when they find a 'limpet' on their car/truck etc so once they have spotted you be ready for the worst..............

['Ross]

For the record, it is illegal. Andy from Fyxomatosis got fined $150? Im pretty sure, he posted the fine on his site. I can't remember exactly how they worded the offence however.

As for me, there have been many times where Im tempted, but with fixed gear and my legs constantly moving Im too scared:o I have drafted a couple of very large trucks, and thats also quite frightening! Although I haven't tried, trams look pretty easy to grab hold of, but you travel faster than them anyway so it kinda defeats the purpose.

[skivi]

If you insist on doing it, use a handhold that keeps your wheel a safe distance away from there wheel.
agreed, also pick a vehicle that has a smooth slow acceleration. i presume a light truck would be ideal, their slow, lots to grab on to at the back and they wont be swerving all over the road.

having said this, i don't condone "skitching" neither do i employ the technique myself, but if you are going to hitch a ride, pick the least dangerous means.

[treggs]

I find drafting is just as easy and safer. On trucks and buses the "draft" actually works well enough that you can sit where you can see stuff coming and you don't have to worry about not having both hands on the bars. Obviously not effective up hills though but for commuting in heavy traffic I find it reasonably safe because you can "flow" with the traffic rather than get in it's way.

[rhysrhysbaby]

Dosen;t holding on to trams mean you have to battle with tram tracks :eek:
You hold on the side near where the doors are

[Blas4me]

Another of Lucas' flicks (http://www.playintrafficproductions.com/), look out for the skitching about 3/4 of the way through, most did it well, 1 didn't...

[Techno Destructo]

Another of Lucas' flicks (http://www.playintrafficproductions.com/), look out for the skitching about 3/4 of the way through, most did it well, 1 didn't...

Now THAT's what I'm talkin' about!!! :cool: I've heard about those Monster Track videos but I've never watched one before. That... was... sick.

I think I'm going to have to try to buy one of those DVDs.

On the guy who went down when skitching... wow.:eek: Lucky it was wet and somewhat slippery roads!

[S.]

A technique I've seen a bit is people reaching down and grabbing the wheel-well of a vehicle... has anyone here done that?

I haven't (don't like my fingers that close to a car wheel) but the reason you do that is because it's a lot more stable than holding on at shoulder height or whatever. Unless you're being pulled from directly in front then you're also being pulled sideways, which tries to tip you over... so the natural reaction is to try and lean the opposite way, which as Ryan said, can put your wheels into/under theirs. Holding onto something down lower doesn't try so hard to tip you over (less leverage over your wheels basically), so it's easier to not get your wheels sucked into theirs.

[kona_scrap]

to be honest the idea of holding onto a 2 ton care going 60km/h scares the living shit out of me. especially when you have other 2 ton cares heading straight for you. the only time i'v skitched is on the back of a shuttle. nice and slow does the trick :D

['Ross]

to be honest the idea of holding onto a 2 ton care going 60km/h scares the living shit out of me. especially when you have other 2 ton cares heading straight for you. the only time i'v skitched is on the back of a shuttle. nice and slow does the trick :D

The fact that you do not no how to spell the word 'car' scares the living shit out of me:rolleyes:

[morto1980]

The fact that you do not no how to spell the word 'car' scares the living shit out of me:rolleyes:

Welcome to the Farkin spelling circus.

['Ross]

Welcome to the Farkin spelling circus.

hahaha, now I am frightened!

[wind ding brutha]

Grow some legs and just leg it to sit in the draft. Skitching is so stupid, and so dangerous. I remember a tragic story of a kid in Adelaide skitching his way in to the city skate park on his BMX, and getting pulled under a semi trailer and run over by the whole trailer, of course being killed in the process. Then there is the sad story of Rick Boyer going under Kovariks 4WD at Mt Beauty i think? If you do it, your seriously rolling the dice...

[kona_scrap]

hahaha, now I am frightened!

its a scary thought. whats scarier is that i'll be driving my very own "care" in a few years so watch out! :D

[dyl bt]

I am a courier and i 'skitch' nearly every day. I usually do it to pull away from the lights because i get lazy and cant be bothered pedalling hard off the line. My technique is to find cars that have a spoiler, spare tyre on the back or find trucks, vans or utes that have trays or handles that make it easy to hold on. Over time i have learned that people with hotted up cars or newish looking ones are definitely NOT cool with this, while most trucks are cool with it. Incidentally, most cars have a blind spot created by the b joint of the doors and if you sort of crouch and hang out to the left slightly they cant see you. This said, dont try it unless you know you can handle a bike.

[kona_scrap]

it's impressive you are alive today!!! good job on your skitching techniques. it scares the shit out of me. how long do you normaly hold on for, or is it just a quick grab to get you moving?

[Dicky]

Well I learned a new word tonight.don't do it when you're on a fixie unless you're sure of what you're doing.
That's nuts. I kinda thought fixed meant it was a flat out no go. Do you take your feet off?

Tow rope up Morgan Rd at 60ish, off the back of possum's mum's car once (shuttle ran out of room), she forgot I was there and I got sprayed with windscreen wiper water, funny stuff... does that count? Probably not.

Once saw a guy try to lean for the handle on an older Sydney bus's motor access panel, only to have the panel open up.

I'm more a fan of drafting - this stuff scares the crap out of me, and doesn't do cycling's public image any favours.
(Yeah I know, neither do the no helmet / kmart bike / roadie blokes in pink 'team' kit types.)
Australia is still very pro-car / anti-anything else - we need all the help we can get.

[Techno Destructo]

Grow some legs

Heheh. Thanks for the tip. :p Believe it or not, not all skitching is done out of laziness or lack of strength/power, just like base-jumping isn't done out of necessity to get to a lower elevation more quickly... ;)

But thanks for your input. I wonder if the people who have gone under the wheels of vehicles were hanging off the front half of the vehicle, as opposed to holding on at the back? I'm going to guess they were holding on to the passenger side open window...

[jasco]

Well I learned a new word tonight.
That's nuts. I kinda thought fixed meant it was a flat out no go. Do you take your feet off?


I never take my feet off when skitching, if I'm riding fixed I really only use skitching to get me up to speed and then let go. If they keep cruising at a comfortable pace then I might hold on but not usually.

I do however regularly take my feet off while going down hills, I usually put my toes on the rear axelnuts to keep some control with them....

-Garth

[kona_scrap]

Heheh. Thanks for the tip. :p Believe it or not, not all skitching is done out of laziness or lack of strength/power, just like base-jumping isn't done out of necessity to get to a lower elevation more quickly... ;)

But thanks for your input. I wonder if the people who have gone under the wheels of vehicles were hanging off the front half of the vehicle, as opposed to holding on at the back? I'm going to guess they were holding on to the passenger side open window...

lol. nah, thats why we have downhillers. i bet it all started from a bloke who needed to go to hospital while on a mountain... :rolleyes:

[kona_scrap]

I never take my feet off when skitching, if I'm riding fixed I really only use skitching to get me up to speed and then let go. If they keep cruising at a comfortable pace then I might hold on but not usually.

I do however regularly take my feet off while going down hills, I usually put my toes on the rear axelnuts to keep some control with them....-Garth

how does this work??? I'd be scared to take my feet off, let alone put them behind me. you, my friend, have some very steely balls! :cool:

[jamisparker]

dude its a fixie take your feet off or DIE

[kona_scrap]

lol. i think its just me but my brain is telling me that to survive i would keep my feet ON the pedals. just seems like the rational thing to do :rolleyes:

[Viv92]

lol. i think its just me but my brain is telling me that to survive i would keep my feet ON the pedals. just seems like the rational thing to do :rolleyes:

On a fixie the pedals will just keep spinning though. Personally I'd think twice before trying to hang onto a car going 60km/h when on a fixie.

[kona_scrap]

ooooooh. ok, you'd lost me there. but now im on the same page. still, id rather my feet infront of me....

[jasco]

how does this work??? I'd be scared to take my feet off, let alone put them behind me. you, my friend, have some very steely balls! :cool:

For starters I always run a brake, secondly I only ever do it when I've got a nice open strech of road ahead of me so I can see if I need to get them back on with plenty of warning. As for getting them back on, try in next you're crusing along at like 10k an hour, it's really not that hard after a little bit of practice.

And, no I never do it while skitching, that would be nuts, although I'm sure it could be done....

-Garth

[jamisparker]

ooooooh. ok, you'd lost me there. but now im on the same page. still, id rather my feet infront of me....

clearly you have never ridden a fixie

[Sethius]

hmm... lets see.. coming back down the bluff up here in the high country on the weekend before the snow season begins, roads are slippery. riding down cruising along all good, hit uphill grab the side of the ute one with either side, all sweet. other guy would wouldnt move across when the driver told him. it was my hilux my bestie was driving, coming up on of the hills the back wheel gets stuck in the gutter when the other guy refused to moved causing me to swerve hitting the bars on the tray and me being flung under n out into the bank being knocked out and pretty bloody concust in the end, hilux has 35" muddies on it, bike copped abit of markage and a buggered front wheel, glad i had my full face on. REALLY wanted to sleep after that... so im over this part its too bloody risk- getting run over by my own damn car!

[Carlin]

I could count the number of times I have skitched on one hand. It was more opportunistic than premeditated. Even then it was sub 30ks only. The first time I tried it was on a big f-off crane actually so it was very slow/smooth.

A Fixed gear would be safer I think as it would stop you from being towed faster than you could pedal, and you would have far more of a feel for what the bike was doing.

I prefer to "catch" a bus by drafting. You can then listen to the engine so you know what the driver is doing. But make sure you know the road for the pot holes and corners as you are "flying blind" so to speak.

[Stanas]

I prefer to "catch" a bus by drafting. You can then listen to the engine so you know what the driver is doing. But make sure you know the road for the pot holes and corners as you are "flying blind" so to speak.

Yeah have to agree there. Skitching sounds a bit risky to me.

Never really thought about skitching until these posts. Although because of all this talk about it I think I've caught the bug and have to give it a shot. On my ride yesterday all I was doing was looking for vehicles to skitch. Thanks guys, no really.

[rhysrhysbaby]

I prefer to "catch" a bus by drafting. You can then listen to the engine so you know what the driver is doing. But make sure you know the road for the pot holes and corners as you are "flying blind" so to speak.

Saw a roadie drafting a truck through the race course road/flemington road lights at about 7am today.

He was FLYING!!!

i was quite impressed.

[petri]

I've got 6 1/2 years of towing stories from when i was a courier....
Don't recommend it to anyone but it's a great buzz and gets you around town super quick... I used to make the most money by doing city to south runs and those jobs generally paid double so towing was very much a part of the job for me.

Some of us used to have races from Fitzroy to St Kilda towing, good but crazy times and i've seen some horrible crashes from towing, you lose alot of skin at those speeds.:D

[RCOH]

Will never do it on my Fixie. Have done it a few times on the street bike or old SS commuter. Have also done it shuttling for DH at oxford falls/red hill on numerous occasions.

I used to do it a lot on my skateboard, skitch a ride up Cambell Pde from Bondi mini & vert ramps to where I leved at the top of the hill. That was fun :eek: :)

[Techno Destructo]

Did one this morning on a medium sized truck... he must have seen me, since about a second after I put my hand on the handhold, he accelerated sharply, which I half-expect anytime I do this, anyhow...

Only held on for a few seconds due to the probably negative reaction from the driver, but it was enjoyable. Gave him a wave and a smile as he pulled away from me.:)

[kona_scrap]

clearly you have never ridden a fixie

clearly you are very correct. but if i dont want to do it on a normal bike. there is no way in hell i'd try it on a fixie :eek:

[kona_scrap]

I could count the number of times I have skitched on one hand. It was more opportunistic than premeditated. Even then it was sub 30ks only. The first time I tried it was on a big f-off crane actually so it was very slow/smooth.

A Fixed gear would be safer I think as it would stop you from being towed faster than you could pedal, and you would have far more of a feel for what the bike was doing.

I prefer to "catch" a bus by drafting. You can then listen to the engine so you know what the driver is doing. But make sure you know the road for the pot holes and corners as you are "flying blind" so to speak.
i feel like a total spaz for asking this but what is the difference between skitching and drafting? i'm pretty new to the whole "grab a random car and hold on" stuff. :)

[Graunched]

i feel like a total spaz for asking this but what is the difference between skitching and drafting? i'm pretty new to the whole "grab a random car and hold on" stuff. :)

Skitching: Physically holding onto a car, truck etc and getting pulled along by it. Very dangerous and not to be attempted unless very confident with bike skills and riding in traffic in general. Also illegal.

Drafting: Riding behind a truck (bigger the better) or car in the slip stream/draft. Only danger is other traffic, sudden braking of vehicle that you are following and the fact that you have to follow within a couple of meters of the vehicle for it to be effective.
Although the bigger the vehicle and the faster it is traveling = further distance that you can sit behind it.

*edit* Basics of Drafting

If a following object, moving at the same speed, can position itself within the slipstream, it will require less energy to maintain its speed than if it was moving independently, because the first object reduces the amount of air resistance experienced by the following object. Alternatively, the following object will be able to move faster than it could in open air which will permit it to pass (overtake) the leading object. Using this principle is called slipstreaming.

[kona_scrap]

ok, cheers for that. im finally up to date with all the expressions for riding with traffic. yay. :D cheers

[Techno Destructo]

Just did a few experiments with drafting lately... I haven't REALLY drafted large vehicles before, but then again, I haven't done many "grey-area" techniques before when riding on city streets.

Tried it on some large vehicles... buses, moving trucks, etc...
Pretty effective! Managed to keep a pretty high speed (well, as fast as the vehicle in front of me, anyway) with a minimum of effort.

What were the downsides?
You have to stay pretty close to the back of the vehicle to really exploit the drafting/slipstream, so this introduces a couple of dangers. One which was mentioned before was you have to be extremely vigilant of the brake lights on the vehicle you're drafting. In other words, most of your focus will be on the back the vehicle which means you can't look around or get distracted (for fear of not being ready when the vehicle in front of you has to slow down suddenly and you run your front wheel into it).
The second is that since you're right behind the vehicle, you have no reaction time to deal with uneven riding surfaces if you hit them. This means things such as objects on the road, potholes, large grooves/cracks, etc... will be under your front wheel instantaneously. You should probably only do this technique when riding on roads you know like the back of your hand.
The third downside is that, well, it's not quite as fun as "the other method" of exploiting other vehicles on the road.

I'd say it's only marginally safer. And not by much. But it's almost as effective.

[ducan]

Haha never heard it called skitching but yeah do it all the time.

Its about 20km commute to work and over the gladesville bridge at my pace is death. Fastest my little polar thing said I was doing whilst on a garbo truck was about 75 - 80 km/h.

After that one hand on a roadie whilst hitting potholes starts to get pretty etch.

[Rik]

Tip with drafting:
Get as close as you physically can, even if it means occasionally brushing the tyre on the bumper. Big vehicles don't slow down suddenly, so unless you're a gumby (alas I suspect many of us are) you'll never have problems with running up the back of things. The closer you are means that if a bus/truck was to emergency stop you only have a tiny gap until your tyre brushes the guard, and you can use that to slow down effectively. Trust me that's a much better solution than keeping a metre gap 'cause then when you run up the back you'll be carrying relatively more speed and that wouldn't be fun. And yes if you're feeling silly you can rely on rubbing your tyre as your braking, it does smell and leave a nasty mark so be polite and avoid doing it ;)
Of course keep fingers on the brakes, eyes on the brakes and your upper body loose incase you blindly run over something like a stick, pothole or pedestrian.

[ducan]

haha a run over a pedestrian..

I drafted up the iron cove bridge yesterday aswell. Top speed was about 65 - 70 but the cool thing was the cars behind me beeped me and then as they went past gave me the thumbs up!

It was a change to getting abused anyway....

[Techno Destructo]

Tip with drafting:
Get as close as you physically can, even if it means occasionally brushing the tyre on the bumper.

Now, c'mon Rik, I know you're opposed to skitching but surely THAT is as dangerous as skitching if you've got traffic behind you!

[craign]

I just realised, shouldn't it be 'bitching' on a bike?

[Techno Destructo]

I just realised, shouldn't it be 'bitching' on a bike?

Yeah, it's been called that before, but I think people are just trying to cut down on subcategories and stuff. Plus, bitching is already taken by another activity. ;)

[nuclear_powered]

I used to do it frequently when I lived in Kew. The start of my commute was a great big hill which, although I later cherished as a great warm up when I got more serious about riding, before then was a bitch of a way to start the ride to work. Pretty busy road, and there was always the odd truck of varying size going up the hill at 60kp/h or less.

Basically I'd seen the messengers do it in town and thought I'd give it a go.

Only ever with trucks, and only ever on the very back left side, and only if they stayed in the left lane. As soon as they drifted closer to the curb, moved to the right lane or got too fast, I'd let go. I'd also usually look behind before grabbing to make sure there weren't any police coming up the hill.

I think my only fear about the drivers getting annoyed with me doing it was that once they reached the (inevitable) traffic jam, I always worried they'd open their door into me (if they had a passenger). But I'd always be ready to brake in those instances.

I've also been skitched off plenty of times and have no problem with it. I drive an Outback with cross bars so they make for a good handle. I think i've had the same guy 2 or 3 times - I think he knows my car. The only time it would piss me off is if they stuffed up and scratched my car, but so far that hasn't happened. I even try and maintain a reasonable speed and smooth gear changes to assist them.

But like the OP said - it's illegal. So don't do it.

['Ross]

I had a shot at it today on st Kilda rd at some traffic lights. Pity there was no actual handle on the truck and I lost my grip after about 2 metres:o I would only try it in a similar situation where I felt confident with the surroundings and situation in which I tried to do it.

[lebronmtb]

I had a shot at it today on st Kilda rd at some traffic lights. Pity there was no actual handle on the truck and I lost my grip after about 2 metres:o I would only try it in a similar situation where I felt confident with the surroundings and situation in which I tried to do it.

try it on my car one day

[Techno Destructo]

So I'm riding to work this morning through Glebe, and I'm approaching a hill. Alongside me comes a gravel truck, or whatever they call those trucks that haul rocks/salt/sand/gravel, etc...

The guy isn't moving too fast for me, so I sprint a little bit and grab the back corner the truck for a laugh. Well, not five seconds into it, when the guy swerves towards the curb! Obviously he saw me and thought he'd try to rub me off. Well, you don't have to tell me twice... I let go and figured this was not a guy to skitch off of... but he was big enough for some nice drafting! So I move to directly behind the truck and about a meter from his rear fender and start a nice draft. Well, I guess this guy looked over and saw I wasn't on one side, and I didn't turn and ride off to the other side and thought I was drafting behind him, 'cause not 10 seconds after the skitch and while I was drafting, he pumped the brake! Good thing I wasn't drafting Rik-style (front wheel almost rubbing rear fender) or I woulda went down for sure!

Well, he might have had a good excuse for pumping the brake suddenly, but I knew there wasn't any traffic in front of him seconds ago...

I think it was just SOUR GRAPES!:p

[Rik]

Good thing I wasn't drafting Rik-style (front wheel almost rubbing rear fender) or I woulda went down for sure!Just gotta sit close and have good reaction time, the closer you are the safer it is for stopping ;)

[chu]

hahaha just read the whole thread...that is awsome...i have only ever skitched before i have never tried drafting sounds a bit scary for ss street bike so i might have to try it next time i ride to the dh tracks...really strange i havent ever been srugged (sp?) off or anything even by buses...normally when i do it i know the person though...i skitched for about 30m on a car that was behind a cop car before i found out it was undercover then i stopped...which was probably the smart thing to do:D

[Customjimmy]

FFS. Anyone who skitches has rescinded the right to ever criticise a motorist in my opinion. It's dangerous and apart from putting yourself in danger you put the driver in an involuntary position of being much more likely to run over a cyclist, which they rightfully resent. The bicycle death toll doubled last year and there is a constant PR battle to be able to safely share the roads.

Fuck off with the skitching unless you've pre-arranged it with the driver and you're not on a public road. It's 50 different kinds of stupid.

[Techno Destructo]

FFS. Anyone who skitches has rescinded the right to ever criticise a motorist in my opinion. It's dangerous and apart from putting yourself in danger you put the driver in an involuntary position of being much more likely to run over a cyclist, which they rightfully resent. The bicycle death toll doubled last year and there is a constant PR battle to be able to safely share the roads.

Fuck off with the skitching unless you've pre-arranged it with the driver and you're not on a public road. It's 50 different kinds of stupid.

A very good argument. However, over the years, I've come to the conclusion on a few things with the attitude motorists have for cyclists.
1. As the groundswell increases for more people to start cycling and less people to drive motor vehicles, support for cyclists on the road (at least by the government) will only continue to rise. I don't think they're going to remove the right to cycle on any streets that haven't banned it long ago, such as motorways.
2. As far as I know, I've never heard anything about skitching being involved with any of the cycling deaths in as many years as I've been out here (about 8). I'm not denying it's as dangerous as hell, but that part of your argument has little to do with skitching.
3. If you hang onto the very back corner of a vehicle, it ain't gonna run you over if you go down. The vehicle behind will do that for ya.
4. What motorists think of cyclists is of no significance. Motorists who were thinking about riding their bikes aren't going to see (a very rare occurrence of) someone skitching and say "That's it! I'm not riding a bike!". Nor will someone of a normal disposition (as in, not predisposed to hurting cyclists) suddenly become intent on running you over. People won't change their minds about things because they see a cyclist skitch. Or do anything else really. People are too well and truly set in their ways and opinions for anything we do as cyclists to greatly change their mindsets.

But you're right. Skitching is stupid. Don't do it. I, however, am known to be occasionally stupid.

[slamer]

ive done it once but i knew the guy driving. my mates dad rides his roadie sometimes and was telling me how his glove got stuck in the back of a ute and he had to pull his hand out before a rather large hill was about to descend.. anyone used a motorbike to skitch with on here?

[Customjimmy]

A very good argument. However, over the years, I've come to the conclusion on a few things with the attitude motorists have for cyclists.
1. As the groundswell increases for more people to start cycling and less people to drive motor vehicles, support for cyclists on the road (at least by the government) will only continue to rise. I don't think they're going to remove the right to cycle on any streets that haven't banned it long ago, such as motorways.
2. As far as I know, I've never heard anything about skitching being involved with any of the cycling deaths in as many years as I've been out here (about 8). I'm not denying it's as dangerous as hell, but that part of your argument has little to do with skitching.
3. If you hang onto the very back corner of a vehicle, it ain't gonna run you over if you go down. The vehicle behind will do that for ya.
4. What motorists think of cyclists is of no significance. Motorists who were thinking about riding their bikes aren't going to see (a very rare occurrence of) someone skitching and say "That's it! I'm not riding a bike!". Nor will someone of a normal disposition (as in, not predisposed to hurting cyclists) suddenly become intent on running you over. People won't change their minds about things because they see a cyclist skitch. Or do anything else really. People are too well and truly set in their ways and opinions for anything we do as cyclists to greatly change their mindsets.

But you're right. Skitching is stupid. Don't do it. I, however, am known to be occasionally stupid.

Well I did post that without researching the statistics on skitching deaths:). I do think it's possible to end up under the wheels of a truck from the position you describe if they brake hard enough though - anyone unfortunate enough to hit the tarmac knows you slide and bounce an unfeasibly long way! I wasn't suggesting that skitching would deter potential cyclists, more that it would maintain the 'what are these farking cyclists doing on my road the bastards' mentality. I think we're on the same page though, looking back on some of the things I've done I'm not exactly Captain Sensible.

[Techno Destructo]

I do think it's possible to end up under the wheels of a truck from the position you describe if they brake hard enough though - anyone unfortunate enough to hit the tarmac knows you slide and bounce an unfeasibly long way!

Yeah, I concede. Somebody slamming on the brakes, and you going down, and them quickly accelerating again, could allow you to get in front of their rear wheel and then *squish*! :o

As I was saying about the motorists... I feel that there's pretty much just two general camps of motorists. Ones who support cyclists on the road and ones that don't. I really feel that there is very little to make either of these camps change sides regardless of what we do. A motorist who has been around 100% law-abiding cyclists all his/her life can easily be totally against them simply because s/he feels they slow them down even by a fraction. That's the overwhelming reason why motorists hate cyclists, IMO. The notion that we make their trip longer (even by seconds). And on my possibly ill-conceived logic, skitching (apart from annoying the driver of the motor vehicle we're skitching off of) would make all other motorists either hate us less or have no effect at all, since we would now be travelling at a speed that wouldn't slow them down, hence not affecting them.

[Bodin]

I feel that there's pretty much just two general camps of motorists. Ones who support cyclists on the road and ones that don't.

There's also a third camp that I'm a member of - long term bicycle commuters that have been forced to turn to cars for some of their commuting needs. I used to have an "all motorists are idiots" attitude until I was constantly exposed to idiot cyclists riding straight in front of me through roundabouts (and abusing ME for almost hitting them :rolleyes:), nearly cleaning up pedestrians at clearly marked pedestrian crossings and hanging on to the back of my ute in heavy, unpredictable traffic.

In general, the numerous acts of astonishing stupidity of an arrogant minority of cyclists that believe they're indestructible and above the law have forced me to re-evaluate the way I both ride AND drive.

I'm in favour of abolishing the "camps" mentality and enforcing some mutual respect. IMO, the best way to do this is for everyone to abide by the laws of the road. I know it's a lofty goal, but that doesn't mean it's not worth preaching.

God help anyone that skitches around me again. If I get the chance to stop safely and confront the person, they will be riding home with ringing ears and deep indentations on their chest that have my index finger's fingerprint.

[BM Epic]

My argument against "skitching" is this,say a driver accidentally run's over a cyclist and this result's in death,the said motorist has to live with the guilt and shame of this for the rest of there lives,this i would not wish on anybody!
I think skitching is very unnecessarily dangerous!

[McPete]

I've had a bit of experience of both;

I've had a mate skitch off my car, by grabbing the length of pipe my dad bolted to the back bumper for some unknown reason. He wasn't able to hold on for very long all of about 3m. I've contemplated doing it in school zones on my road bike, where I'm usually going the same speed as the traffic anyway, but never done it.

Drafting however, I have done. In school zones, it's a breeze, to make a truly terrible pun. Sprint up to 40km/h, pull into the stream of traffic behind something reasonably large and boxy and away you go. You just have to watch for the ones that are pulling over to drop off children :P.
I also drafted a mate's Mk.III VW Golf for about 30 seconds, which(according to his speedo) took me up to 50km/h. However, I'm not sure of how much of that was aerodynamic advantage from the car and how much was me spinning as fast as I could in the gear I was in (Note; Friction shifters are useless when things get fast).

I'm happy to draft stuff, but skitching really worries me.

[Carlin]

I'm in favour of abolishing the "camps" mentality and enforcing some mutual respect. IMO, the best way to do this is for everyone to abide by the laws of the road. I know it's a lofty goal, but that doesn't mean it's not worth preaching.

I am in favour of abolishing the 'camps' mentality too. However I see the 'mutual respect' not as something that needs to be enforced, but as something that should be achieved through less rules. As an example I look to some European cities that have removed lane markings and and traffic lights from the city center. In these cases cars, bikes and pedestrians have to get along by mutual respect.

[Bodin]

As an example I look to some European cities that have removed lane markings and and traffic lights from the city center. In these cases cars, bikes and pedestrians have to get along by mutual respect.

I like what you're getting at, but I've been to a few European cities over the last couple of years and they share NO physical resemblance with anything in Australia - especially Melbourne. Even Sydney, too - I'm up there about once a month and the fact is that Aussie drivers like doing 65kph and tend to get shitty with anything that slows them down. Cars and bikes will never get along in this environment, but can at least choose to respect the rules.

Within the old Euro cities, there's hardly a straight road anywhere, the streets are often incredibly narrow and there are pedestrians everywhere, slowing the traffic down already - aspects much more conducive to the mutual respect thing than our fast, open (by comparison) roads.