2008 Series Prizes

[thecat]

Hey all.

The 2008 serieseses are in the final stages of being nutted out.

We have a few question for the riders to gauge on how to build and grow the disciplines, especially DH and XC.

1: Prizes or trophies?
Given that budgets are tight and sponsorship hard to come by would riders like to continue with the standard random product prizes or would they prefer a trophy or medal as a memento to keep.
I know there was a lot of discussion awhile ago about the Qld series and I think they decided on trophies as their preferred option but what about you lot?


2: DH Transport
This one is a bit too wide sweeping for a poll but with the wide range of Venues and transport issues what are riders thoughts on minimum standards for transport?

Obviously we all want to do as many runs as possible. Steve Humpheries has always had the goal of 1 transport seat per rider per hour.

Obviously with the numbers our state round are attracting this isn't always possible.

What do riders expect
MTBA standards for National rounds is 100 riders/hr minimum. Most of our rounds exceed that. Is that OK?

is 200 riders/hr needed?
Would people be happy paying higher fees to get extra buses?
Is split practice welcome if it means you have little to no transport lines in your allotted times?

All feed back will be taken on board and considered. NSWMTB is committed to
continued improvements and we want rider input.

[W.bat]

Trophies. Prizes can be to erratic from event to event and division to division. I once got a bunch of good stuff for 2nd in Master and watched under 19 winner get a tube!

[VTSS350]

Split practise sucks balls big time. Please dont go there.

I would be happy to pay a higher entry fee so that extra shuttles could be put on.

The shuttles lines at the canberra state round this year were far to long.

Coffs Harbour was awesome this year. The wait was acceptable.

Awaba was a bit slow. More buses were needed.

I think this sort of discussion is needed because we are going to start to loose people at races because of the long shuttle waiting times. Numbers at most state races this year were fantastic. We need to insure that people keep coming back.

[|Matt|]

I think prizes should be scrapped all together if it means more buses/vans meaning more runs for the riders. Perhaps a trophy of some flavour for the podium elites?

Prizes sort of make it seem better to win than to have a good time. Not really what we want portrayed for our growing sport.

Just my 2 cents.

[thecat]

I think prizes should be scrapped all together if it means more buses/vans meaning more runs for the riders.

It's not really related. There isn't much cash sponsorship given so extra buses will need to be priced into the entry fee.

[dirtdemon]

We have never used any of the MTB related products that were won including the hat at Thredbo, but also have never won at Lithgow who I believe always gives the most appropriate and useful prizes.

The problem with trophies is that they are great on the day but eventually become dust catchers that find their way to the back of the cupboard.

So if we could get appropriate MTB related products I think it is the way to go. Not clothes that always seem to be either small or big, or xc tubes for at a downhill race. I also realise this is harder than to achieve then it seems.

[Ozza]

Trophy/Medal is no doubt the way to go. It gives you something to remember the time and be proud about! DH is an expensive sport, a tube or similair isnt really going to be a prize.

[October26]

Medals instead of trophies. They take up a lot less room and don't collect as much dust.

Prizes are a good idea at higher level but in some classes it can promote poor sportsmanship i.e. Pinners in sport class that always cop a bagging.

Entry to the races must be in a week in advance to give the organizers enough time to sort out exactly how many buses etc will make the day go smoothly.

Is there any way to suggest categories for peoples racing based on past results similar to what the roadies do?

[DaGonz]

Not clothes that always seem to be either small or big, or xc tubes for at a downhill race.

I'll swap you... I've got a set of small fox elbow pads I won at an XC race still sitting in the cupboard ;)

Cheers
Gonz

[thecat]

Is there any way to suggest categories for peoples racing based on past results similar to what the roadies do?

It has been discussed.

There are a couple of issues at admin level

1. It's a lot of extra work for the volunteers to sort out and police

2. MTB tracks vary a lot. Some people do a shit hot time on their home track but don't match the pace elsewhere.

One suggestion that has been tossed around is using regional, inter club races as qualifiers for the state series and grade people from them. Again that's a lot of work to police.

Personally I think there should be no prize at all and no series points offered for Sport, but that's just me.

Anyway something for us to think about.

[sammydog]

Well, I never win anything, so the lot of you should just harden up and/or send your unwanted prizes my way.

Seriously though, keep the comments coming so we can make next year the race season (XC and DH) that everyone wants.

[October26]

Personally I think there should be no prize at all and no series points offered for Sport, but that's just me.



Not just you...

[Maximus182]

Mckinney may pull through for a podium...

not wierd trophies.. some type of survivor like emunity idol! haha

[Dozer]

Don't issue material prizes at all. Issue a form of voucher or something similar for a free entry to the next race or a discount on your race entry, something like that.
Arrange a specific photographer to catch everyone on their race run and issue the winners with a photo of them (when it is printed of course) winning or placing in the category.
Trophies are good but an incentive to go to the next race or make an effort to travel around might be a good choice of direction.

[wsmtbdhvp]

Another thought, the trophies could be or include ribbons. A NSW or a club one for the club or promoter running the event.

[Dozer]

Ribbons are for the under 7's at the school swimming carnival. Make it something relative to the sport and something that will encourage current members to keep coming back and get new people interested.
A magazine subscription offer would be another good prize and the magazine involved could utilise this idea via cheap sponsorship with something to offer to the riders.

[Incontinent]

Ribbons are ok at club level.
I think that state level competition deserves something a little "more gooder"
Then again I haven't seen too many great looking MTB trophies.
The medals seem to be ok, don't s'pose we could get a design of "our own" and have it specially cast, or would that be cost prohibitive?
Nothing over the top elaborate but something the reflects MTB-NSW.
Of course product sponsorship is also more than welcome where it can be sourced. Don't see a problem with podiums getting a medal and a bit of product.

The new MTBA medals for Nationals seem to go over ok with the riders.
Even had them engraved this year - things are looking up.

I still like the idea of custom made trophies from old bike bits a overall series or champs trophies. Think it's a bit too much work to have them for each series race though.

Magazine subscriptions as prizes aren't too bad an idea as well.
We actually won a subscription as a prize at an XC race and have since renewed it. Even manage to read the mag and not just look at all the pretty pictures.

Not fussed on the store voucher idea, ok if you win a voucher from a near by shop but makes it a bit difficult when a Coffs kid wins a voucher from an ACT shop don't you think.

Like the idea of race pics for the winners but what if his/her pic is a dud?

[drewandmel]

custom built trophy's out of bike parts are a good idea for the winner of the series.
The main thing we need to try and contain is the cost for the clubs and the riders, attracting new riders to our sport is getting harder as the prices of races rise (like everything in life) I think the pricing last season was fair for what was offered at the rounds i entered.( I only did Coff's, Awaba and pacific park so can't comment on the others)
I 've just looked at the national's site.....to my Horror they have nearly doubled the entry fee from last year!!! and the schedule is not looking good!! I'm sure they have some good things planned but I would imagine i'm not the only one shaking my head.
Pre entry is a very good idea and trying to get everyone on a full licence would be helpful too( maybe this needs to be pushed at the start of the season or before)
May be capping the numbers is needed at particular rounds where the organiser's know they can only provide respectable turn around times for set numbers.

[bitterbro]

MTB related stuff in my opinion is much better if you win a lesser event, such as interschools, or a series of araces such as (for example) the KHS working week series. I belive a medal is a more formal thing to win, and at a high level such as state, a medal is appropriate because it comes with some sort of prestige. If you win MTB goods after state, you don't really have something to show the kids or freinds that you won state.

[daanhilla]

Split practise should depend on the venue. Split practise at Thredbo, where riders can do 6-7 runs in 3hrs, is acceptable. Split practise at Illinbah, where you were lucky to get 3 runs in, is not. I realise not having split practise means more riders in line for shuttles and slower turnaround times aswell. This is where shuttle organisation could make a big difference. There were a number of times where shuttle buses had to pull over and wait for other buses to pass, wasting valuable practise time. If the shuttles were set to leave at specific intervals, where stop time was minimised, shuttle time could be improved. If bus drivers communicated with each other as to when they were leaving and where they could pass it might make that difference needed.

But, when an A group rider constantly gets held up on the track by a slower rider/s, it also reduces the quality of runs. So which is better, Quality or Quantity? More runs, or cleaner runs?

I'd be prepared to pay a little extra for more transport, although I think it's the organisation of the shuttles that will make the difference.

[mr ufo]

..good idea Steve . The ribbons and medals WSMTB give to the winning riders are great_

I would rather receive one of these as opposed to a pair of bars or peddles ..

assuming I ever win another race of course ....

[$$$jack-konastinkdog$$$]

i think they should do a bike raffle or sumfin like that

[blayne&tim]

i believe that prizes should be given in catorgories like u15's, u17's, vets, masters as most riders in these catorgories have no sponsorship and sometimes find it hard to get the money for better equiptment. riders in the elite catorgory and u19's usually hav sponsorship deals and never use the prizes they are given as they conflict with their sponsor's product. in these catorgories, a trophie is more apporpriate.

the transport issue is a tough one, i believe the standard should be 200 riders per hour as there are riders like myself who race in all events and need to find time to get as much practice as we can for all events. The number of riders like my self, who race in all events are increasing and need to be catered for.

[trouble]

Just my 2 cents, I say 100% go with medals, trophies are good but medals are just awesome, and alot of people are proud to race downhill and ride it, and those who are very talented should definatly have something to show friends or family from it, eg. a medal. One I could be wrong but I beleive they are cheaper than trophies, 2, they are way cooler, 3. dont collect as much dust, and 4. is if you get a mtb product, if you use it and dont sell it, then you'll eventually forget why you got it. A medal will always be a good momento.

Thanks, and shuttle wise I think the states this year were pretty awesome but I also noticed that awaba did have seemingly long lines...like I got one practise run before my race in an entire day. But it was also because the bus/trailer broke. I think WSMTB and many other's who hold the state do pretty well. Congrates on your behalf!

[scblack]

A trophy or medal for sure. I would like something to show for that result.

We all have the product/bike parts we need, or else we could not have raced to a podium.

At the Homebush MTNX i came second in the Masters on Sunday, and won a XC tyre, some grips and riding goo. What the hell do I want with a XC tyre at a MTNX race? I don't even have a XC bike. The grips were not lock on so I'll never use and the goo was a snack one day. All pretty useless for me. Maybe a bike shop voucher for $XX would have been much more useful, as I could then get the tyre I want, or grips I'll actually use.

I would have MUCH rathered a momento of some sort to show my result. I can afford any product I want, so freebies mean very little. Something to display on the mantle/bookcase would be much better.

[Slave]

I don't want a trophy / medal or bike parts.
I'm after recognition.
See the thread I wrote on this topic here:
http://forums.farkin.net/showthread.php?t=112654

[thecat]

“Please note if you are contemplating doing the National Championships then you must have competed in the 2007 ACT Championships”

This means that the BMX organisation does not have to cater for weekend warriors at the National Champs. It makes the BMX Nationals important. It gives it relevance.


We have been steering the State Champs in this direction for the last couple of years. Currently you have to be a full MTBA member.

There have been calls to limit entries further, the problem we face with limited numbers is that the club still needs enough numbers to pay the bills and put on a good show.

Most, if not all, of the NSWMTB committee think that qualifying for the Champs is the way to go we just need to come up with a way that the hosting club isn't losing a bucket load of money in doing so

[Mattydv]

I'm speaking purely from the 2007 XC Series experience, but with the numbers (or lack of) at the XC races, I don't think material prizes is the way to go. I voted that I just want a good event, and I think that's what it should be about. We don't race to win some grease, or a $20 training tyre, we race because we love it and we want to ride. With an average of 4 (or thereabouts) riders in U/19 last year for the state series, prizes are just not necessary.

However if you feel the need to give something away, I would rather a medal as opposed to anything else. Trophies collect dust, take up space, are often very cheap plastic (as I guess they would be with State XC) so they are inclined to breaking, and invariably get thrown out in 10 years.

[meatlovers]

In my opinion, a medal or a trophy is best.
It is something you can keep forever to remember that one race you won or something. A special piece of metal to show to the family when your a grandparent.
My 2 cents.

[stevecoles1954]

Prizes are not important. Save the money for extra transport so that we can steer clear of split practise. Split practice means that you cannot socialise with friends or other riders who are in a different group. This to me means that the race is then not as much fun because an aspect of socialising with other riders has been limited. The atmosphere at the race is not as good. Worse than this (and we have only seen it at the Canberra Nationals) is split race periods and split presentations which is not what we want to see at a Downhill event. To keep numbers up we need to look at why the Downhill numbers have halved at the Nationals (Cancerra) in the last 2 years. We need to keep a lid on the Entry fees but still have a generous amount of practise time and there is a balance point where both are reasonable. Keep the riders riding and they are happy and they remember the event as a success.

[thecat]

Prizes are not important. .

And that coming from a stinky old bloke that has stood on more podiums than just about anyone.

:D:D:D:D

[bransly]

I believe that the prizes last year where pretty good. For starters,I was really happy with my $120 voucher to Windsor cycles for state champs, and i recieved a medal stating what i achieved. At lithgow i won a prize but i also got a nice certificate which i think was one of the best things from winning a state race- it means i can always have something to look back on when im older or show friends and family. I think certificates and madals are the way to go! Bike products are also really good, although you tend to have used it all up fairly quickly. The prizes i recieved for state champs was extremely good, even better than what was given out at national champs, this has got to mean were on the right track!
Tim

[prosheep]

i think that certificate, medal, trophy or even a plaque would be the way to go just like everyone else has stated it gives you something to remember for the rest of you life and show your grandchildren also it gives you something to claim and say that you won a state race if it be to your relatives or your mates 2 years back i won the north coast cross counrty running champinships and got a medal and a ribbon and got to stand on the top of the podium and had something to wear and hold proudley and have photos of myself standing on the top of the podium wearing my medal with great proud and you can look back on it and remember it as one of the happyest moments of your life.