best XC disc brakeset????

[daisyhilldude]

i have a santa cruz blur - and am currently running hayes hfx comps - which work ok - but i wnat to upgrade

what brakes should i get - im tossing up between xtrs with non shifter levers or magura martha sl's

im a bit scared that the carbon levers on the marthas might break though

has anyone used these brakes and could u give me some feedback?

thanks

[MrCove]

Hope Minis

[LordNikon]

I'd be inclined to go for Hopes aswell. Every bike I've seen with XTR disks squeals like a stuck pig under brakes. Something about the rotors themselves I'm told, apparently it's better to run XT disks with XTR calipers.

And I haven't ever heard anything good about Maguras.

If it's actually for XC then cable disks are the way forward though, easier to fix if you get stuck somewhere.

[Squidly Didly]

2nd the Hope Mini option. My XTR's used to squeel in the worst ways (known fact, been in many reviews so don't bother saying i can't set-up brakes), and yes much worse than Hope squeels which atleast are consistant :P

Magura Marta's are awesome brakes but hugely expensive wether you import them or not. They're warranty system here in Oz is a load of BS, and their distributor doesn't carry spare parts, so he'll just charge you for a whole new unit.

On the topic for spare parts, Shimano don't sell piston kits for their xtr's so keep a damn good eye on your pads in the mud, esp if you do adventure or 24hr racing. In other words you're fubar and need to buy a whole new brake caliper because of ONE piston!

Hope Mini's all the way. Good price (bout $240 aus cheaper than Marta's (per unit)) and all spare parts are available. Plus you can get a 145mm rotor for the rear as you don't need 165mm on a xc rig!

[John U]

i have got the marta's but not the SL's. They came on the bike and worked a treat. The bike was european though so the levers were around the wrong way. I eventually got them bled and swapped over as they aren't switchable. got the bike back and after turning the bike upside down for half an hour the levers pulled all the way to the bars. air in the lines. apparently they are pretty hard to service even by an experienced mechanic. the shop charged me another 80 bucks to fix the problem they created. they are now working a treat again.

i wouldn't hesitate buying them but be careful where you take them when getting them serviced. i would not have had a problem if i didn't have to get them changed over

[Grover]

Hope Minis would be my second choice, I'd recommend the older Shimano Deore XT discs, ie. not dual control version. Very nice brake, a little heavy but works a treat. Shimano still makes them by the way.

[fatkat]

I agree- shimano discs squeel soo much- even my friends deore discs started stuffing up for some reason, something about the piston getting stuck 3/4 the way out

[daisyhilldude]

thanks for the excellent feedback everyone - it sounds like hopes are the way to go- what kinda warranty backup and after sales service can u get here? i'm thinking about buying them off the net.

i live in brisbane - has anyone had good support from a mechanic for hopes here?

[Cruz]

DHD, give Pete at Astrobike a ring about the Hopes.

[Tomac Boy]

Id just bleed your hayes with some fresh DOT 4, blast your rotor with a blowtorch and get some Hayes Full sintered pads.

I've used Hayes, Hopes, Shimanos and im back on hayes again and happier than ever...

[Rik]

The Comps are the ones with the resin lever body, yeh? If so, that's a damn good reason to upgrade.

I'd vote Avid cable discs combined with a Ti lever.. or maybe an SD Ultimate if you feel like splurging :)

[DEVLIN]

I run the XTR calipers with XT disc and Deore levers. Never had a problem with squeeling and they work awesome for XC. Squids comment about the supply, or lack of, of piston kits is a little bit of a downer though. I would tend to lean towards Hope on this regard. Another option is the Avid Juicy's but I have not heard of or read any reports on these brakes. Maybe do a bit more research. The Avid cables would allow you to get some trick levers for the pimp factor. Good luck.

[24seven]

definatly the hope minis. simple easy to maintain and fit and they're metal not shitty plastic.

[Disco]

Back to avid jucys, where do they retail at? i might be considering a pair. Plus has anyone read anything about them or tried them for themselves?

Little Mike

[Rik]

Juicy's are $399-$419-$429 an end (depending on rotor size, 6-7-8")
I might give them a go if/when I decide to move on from the Hayes I'm running now. They look promising, but I'd be interested to see longterm test results first.

[BagofSkill]

It's got to to be Hope Mini's for XC, doesn't it?! Go Hope Mono Mini's for the awesome looks too!

[daisyhilldude]

i realy appreciate all the quality feedback ive received from u all - i almost bough the hopes - but ive heard some horror stories about them failing and i also thought that i might like to get some xtr wheels down the track - so i decided on xtr - i figures it was better the devil i knew -

[Cave Dweller]

You want them for cross country but how big are you, what kind of trails do you ride and are you really worried about shaving grams from the bike.

If you are a big guy who uses his bike for going DH fast (as fast as you can on a XC) then maybe the xtr brakes are not for you. I have read that the fluid can boil in the brakes if used excessivly, basically they are not designed for DH. Maybe go with some new xt calipers with deore levers and old xt disk or try and find yourself so older m755/m756, the old 4 pistons ones. They are really nice brakes and i use them on both my DH and hardtail bikes.

[daisyhilldude]

u have a good point there cave dweller - but i have already ordered the set up - im getting xtr calipers old style xt - non shifter levers, 6 bolt rotors and shimano lines

if i find that they arent powerful enough i'll swap back to saint calipers - its not a really expensive thing to do

and yes i am a kinda big guy - about 85 kgs i guess

[shmity]

u have a good point there cave dweller - but i have already ordered the set up - im getting xtr calipers old style xt - non shifter levers, 6 bolt rotors and shimano lines

if i find that they arent powerful enough i'll swap back to saint calipers - its not a really expensive thing to do

and yes i am a kinda big guy - about 85 kgs i guess
Id hazard a guess and say the saints arn't going to be a whole heap better (or worse) than the current xtr brakes are. Im pretty sure they both run the same size pistons and i know they both run off the same lever throw meaning there is potentially the same power at the caliper. The only things that could contribute to better braking performance is the pad compound and the body castings, but i dont think that would be anything you could measure on the bike.

[wombat]

I know it's a little late now, but Magura Marta's absolutely blew me away in terms of bite. If it wasn't for price and service issues I'd have them on my street bike in a flash.

[Bike_freak]

Apparently if you get the XTR's you run 1 of each type of compound brake pad per end. Resin and sintered i think.

[Hagar]

I have the XTR brake setup. Excellent modulation and decent power. Not up with the old XT four pistons but still very good.

When I first got them the front squealed excessively and really lacked power. A couple of extended high speed stops. ie from 60kph. On tar to let the tyre grip properly and they were sorted.

I think that for XC applications, including fast DH application in XC conditions these brakes work very well. Good Choice

[Syphanx]

Hey guys,
I think that the Hayes HFX9 Carbon Disc Brakes are probably the way to go for XC. They are lightweight, hayes are well known for their superior braking power over all other companies and not to mention they look really phat.
However if you aren't really into that kind of price range (because they do tend to cost a fair bit, but I guess that's what you get for top of the line stuff) you could go to something like the standard HFX 9 XC, they are pretty sweet... OR if you even want to move totally away from Hayes, Shimano 04 Deore XT's are nice, these are a very robust and low maintenance brake, however like the HFX 9 Carbons they do tend to cost a bit, I saw them in my local bike shop (Chain Reaction) the other day for $1000. But do keep in mind that the shop is a fair bit of a rip off! so you could probably get them for around $850. Best to ask around first before you start throwing money at people.

I hope that I was some help to you,

-- Michael --

[wombat]

I don't know that the HFX-9s, carbon or otherwise, would be on my shopping list at all. I still believe they're an overpriced, under engineered brake and are too much trouble for my liking.

[Cúl-Báire]

I dont know bout Hayes either, they are riddled with problems, apparently the servicing in Australia is woefull... Not to mention the Carbon's are way over the claimed weight :?

I gust grabd a set of Magura Marta's of Ebay for $280USD, Should be hear next week :)... I'll let you know how they go, once the arm gets good.

[Syphanx]

Okay so I get the point that Hayes aren't the best type of brake (however they are very popular for some reason). At the moment I'm running Avid mechanicals (Which perform exceptionally well for Mechanicals!!!), I was thinking of Hayes.... but yeah, how about the New 04' Shimano Deore XT's? What are the pro's and cons on those things? They look fairly good and I've heard that Shimano make a nice brake. My dad has a pair of 03' Deore's and they seem okay... Anyway give me some feedback.

Thanks guys,
By the CulBaire,
I dont know bout Hayes either, they are riddled with problems
What have you heard that is so bad about Hayes? (Yeah I know the servicing is pretty shit but what else is wrong with the brakes themselves?)

[shmity]

Okay so I get the point that Hayes aren't the best type of brake (however they are very popular for some reason). At the moment I'm running Avid mechanicals (Which perform exceptionally well for Mechanicals!!!), I was thinking of Hayes.... but yeah, how about the New 04' Shimano Deore XT's? What are the pro's and cons on those things? They look fairly good and I've heard that Shimano make a nice brake. My dad has a pair of 03' Deore's and they seem okay... Anyway give me some feedback.

Thanks guys,
By the CulBaire,
I dont know bout Hayes either, they are riddled with problems
What have you heard that is so bad about Hayes? (Yeah I know the servicing is pretty shit but what else is wrong with the brakes themselves?)
The only reason they seem popular is because they flood the oem market by selling their units to manufacturers at such small cost in large volumes that they make their way onto so many bikes.
Problems? crappy leavers, caliper bodys that leak and are misaligned. Those two are enough to turn you off any brake. Hayes used to have a good thing going, but the quality has dropped significantly in the last few years.

[Cúl-Báire]

Numerious problems:
Lever slop, the levers tend to develop play very quickly, I have even seen a few which have broken for no apparent reason...
Pad rub, they always seem to rub no matter what was done about it (including facing the IS mounts)...
Leaks: Can happen with every brake.
Bad Servicing: need I say more!

Maybe this was just bad luck, but all the above problems happened on the same set of brakes, even after one caliper was replaced with new... Something is up.

Having said that there are cheap, have great stopping power when they work... Probably why they are so popular.

[shmity]

Numerious problems:
Lever slop, the levers tend to develop play very quickly, I have even seen a few which have broken for no apparent reason...
Pad rub, they always seem to rub no matter what was done about it (including facing the IS mounts)...
Leaks: Can happen with every brake.
Bad Servicing: need I say more!

Maybe this was just bad luck, but all the above problems happened on the same set of brakes, even after one caliper was replaced with new... Something is up.

Having said that there are cheap, have great stopping power when they work... Probably why they are so popular.
I dont think youll find a brake on the market at the moment with such bad tolerencing between caliper halves, which is why the hayes leak so much.

[S.]

Numerious problems:
Lever slop, the levers tend to develop play very quickly, I have even seen a few which have broken for no apparent reason...
Pad rub, they always seem to rub no matter what was done about it (including facing the IS mounts)...
Leaks: Can happen with every brake.
Bad Servicing: need I say more!

Maybe this was just bad luck, but all the above problems happened on the same set of brakes, even after one caliper was replaced with new... Something is up.

Having said that there are cheap, have great stopping power when they work... Probably why they are so popular.
I dont think youll find a brake on the market at the moment with such bad tolerencing between caliper halves, which is why the hayes leak so much.

Proof?

I've had five separate Hayes brakes (ie 2.5 pairs), and never had any trouble with any of them, other than the one I ran into a tree and blew the diaphragm off - easily fixed however. Especially from leaks... I've seen a few Hopes leaking, and an XT (pretty sure that got crashed on though), but never seen or had any problem with my own Hayes (other than contaminating the pads).

Also, the Hayes HFX-9s are absolute SHIT. They are dragging down the Hayes name; the bolts strip super easily, the lever bodies are flexy and weak, and I generally do not trust them at all. Thankfully the Mags aren't the same.

[Syphanx]

O.K.
So apparently all Hayes seem to be pretty shit except for like the odd person who thinks that the HFX Mags are ok. Noone has really spoken highly of the Deore XT's... what should I buy then? Give me a couple of brands or models to go by. I'm looking at buying within the next few months and they will be used for "aggressive xc" and trail riding.
Also, the Hayes HFX-9s are absolute SHIT Yeah I agree with you on that one S. A friend of mine just bought the 04 Giant XtC2 Disc, it comes with Hayes HFX-9's. His only had it for about 2 months and the pistons have already broken twice and now something is sqeaking in the caliper. He sent them to his local bike shop to get them fixed, they replaced it with a DIFFERENT caliper so thus making the warranty void. How he is having a big argument with Hayes and CHAIN REACTION (Cronulla) about the Warranty. But I agree with Hayes on that it isn't their fault if Chain Reaction stuffed up and replaced it with the wrong thing!

And the moral to that story is.... Don't shop at Chain Reaction. They have great bikes on the floor... but their service is shithouse!

[shmity]

The old 4 pot XT brakes are awsome, one of the best feeling brakes out there. 03 LX brakes are also a very good brake, quite cheap for a top performing brake.
The current model xt brakes are a different design, but from all reports work well, you may want to consider just getting the brake caliper, and an old style lx lever and rotor so you dont have to have the integrated shifter/brake lever unit that t hey come stock with, and you dont have to run a lock ring xt hub with the old style xt rotors.

[Disco]

I have ridden on the 02 XT's, 4 piston ones and OOOOOOOH the ride was the best combination of modulation and power on a 6" rotor i have yet riden! (Having riden numerous hayes and magura)
Hope it helps a bit. So if you can get a pair of good conditioned XT 4Pots I greatlysuggest that u get them!

Little Mike

[Bike_freak]

Agreed. Don't get the Hayes, and this is coming from a hayes user. Just got a leak in my Lever, hope it gets fixed. Otherwise I might be tempted to get some Mono minis!!

[Syphanx]

Hey guys,
Ok, so the XT 4 pot hydros seem to be the way to go at the moment. By the way what does the 4 pot stand for anyway? :?
Would it be better getting one of those "mud cutting wavy rotors" or just stick with my avid ones that I've got at the moment. I don't really think it makes a difference, does it affect the braking performance?
I saw a pair of Shimano Deore XT 4 pots in my local bike store for $1000 is this overpriced? this includes levers, hoses, discs everything.
Thanks for the help so far guys!

-- Michael --

[jasco]

The "four pot" means there is 4 pistons acting on each disc.... ie two on each side opposing each other, they are made like this to increase modulation more than it is power (although it does do both). As for the wavy rotor, I've never used one but I guess if you ride a lot in wet conditions they might :?: be handy.....

[Syphanx]

Yeah I did a bit of homework on those Shimano's, there haven't been many complaints about them and now I know how the four piston thing works properly :) Clever design as well!
Apparently the Hayes HFX Mag Plus have a good review as well, but so many people here have complained about Hayes I won't even bother to look into that one!
Yeah the wavy rotors look cool, so I might throw one of them in too :P

What do you rekon are the best Mechanical Disc brakes out on the market? I have heard lots of people say that the Avid Ball Bearings are (Which I use lol), I think they are quite good and perform better than some of the lower range hydraulics.
Anyway get back to me and vote on my poll! It's about which is better, Manitou 3mins or Rockshox Psylo Race's!

-- Michael --

[Rik]

Hrm, for XC I'd probably stick with the Avid cable disc, but those 4pot XT's are sooo so sweet, my favourite brake out there. Well worth the extra weight if you ride hard and rough, but I'd probably stick with the Avids (and mine should be arriving this week, huzzah!)

[Syphanx]

Yeah i know the XT's might be a bit heavier but they certainly have more braking power and a nicer feel to them! I ride pretty hard xc and the avids are performing well to match that but the thing I hate about all mechanicals is that after about 5 or so rides you have to go and re-adjust all the cable length etc because it stretches!
but I'd probably stick with the Avids (and mine should be arriving this week, huzzah!)

Rik are you getting the Avids or the 4-pot Deore XT's???

But at the moment, the 4-pots are definetly the way to go!

-- Michael --

[Cúl-Báire]

I gotta get off my ass and send them first Rik, They'll be oon the way tomorrow. :P

My Magura's setup so sweet; spot on first time, Even got the leads changed no dramas; All I need now is two good arms to ride on them :P

XT 4Pots are mighty fine, I remember riding a set on an old Avanti Hammer, when the first come out, biy I wasd impressed. New 2004 XTR's have fixed the problem with the sticking/draging inboard pistons- Aint heard much bout 2004 XT's though.

[Ride_Guy]

A very underated brake are the Shimano Deore Hydro brakes.
The power in these are good enough for xc easy, worth a looking at if your on a budget :D :D

[Syphanx]

Hey,
Culbaire Wrote:
My Magura's setup so sweet; spot on first time
So what's your set-up??? Majura's sound nice, but are they pricy? So there have been no real big complaints about the new 2004 Shimano XTR disc brakes? I have heard from some people that the 04 XT brakes are not as good as last years, which would make them pretty standard!

I agree with Ride_Guy about the Shimano Deore Hydro's, they are very underated, as I said before my dad has a pair on his gitane and they feel great! (Can't say much for the looks, but oh well it's not really how they look, it's how they perform!). I'm not really on a budget since I'm not going to be paying for the stuff anyway, it's more a matter of Weight, Reliable and low maintenance.

-- Michael --

[Cúl-Báire]

They are pretty expencive to buy here; I got mine shipped for about $450AUD off an ebay store... You'd be foolish to buy them here really, as the distributer is pretty crap, and hard to find parts for. In a sence there is alot of online tech support for them though, with the Magura Cult, MTBR.com, and Jimi@magurausa.com can generally help you out with any problems.

They stoped quiet well, considering there not bedded in and could do with abit more fluid (lost some changing lines), but that should be sorted today if the bleed kit came in :wink: .

[Rik]

Rik are you getting the Avids or the 4-pot Deore XT's???
Avids are on their way, and I've ran the 4pots on my XC bike in the past... talk about overkill, but a damn fine feeling brake.
As for the 04 Shimano discs, I've been told there's a few issues with them, namely Shimano not bringing in some spares, so if you munted a piston, you'd be forced to buy a complete caliper :x

[Cúl-Báire]

Consider Shimano would probaby charge you $150 to replace the piston, you'd be better off getting a new caliper anywyas, as I have seen XTR's going for $220... If it's still under warenty Shimano would have to replace the caliper... Everybody is a winner! :P *insert sacrasm here*

-Cul