Australian trails pt.2/Trail characteristics and build

[johnny]

I was really enjoying the discussion on the types of DH trails in Australia until it turned into a kindergarten playground. So I'm kicking it off again, under a different premise.

What do you prefer in your downhill trails?

The discussion had been made that Australian trails weren't smooth/flowy enough and that commitment was lacking in the build which equalled substandard trails for us to ride. Now we leave behind the issue of effort because that will never be resolved. What we do carry through is the discussion of what trails you like to ride and why.

Personally I've never riden any smooth trails with manicured surfaces and sturdily bermed corners that don't end up with serious brake rutting (although I haven't been riding DH for a full year yet and am quite inexperienced). But I do watch the headcam runs of A-line in Whistler and get myself a "bike fat" or "trail chubby" which is quite embarrassing when wearing speedos or tight tracksuit pants......., but that's a whole other discussion.

But then again, I also love having to pick my way througha wide lined rock garden, I love the feel of my suspension soaking up the hits, I love the focus that one must have going over a heavily rooted section of track and I most of all love the "hit it and hope" thrill that I get when I feel I'm going too fast but don't want to slow down.

I'm not a huge fan of drops or tables, but would also find a track boring if it didn't have any. I do enjoy a good high berm, but I also love trying to slide a nice flat or off camber turn. My favourite track that I've ridden so far would have to be Thredbo (keep in mind my relative inexperience). It's long, has a number of different sections and when maintained, very fast (for me anyway!).


What are your favourite tracks and what type of track would you ride if you could choose?

First person to bitch gets banned.

[Yowie]

Steep rocky rooty trails for me, I like a trail that push's your equiptment aswell as your ability. Waddelbla is a favourite the feel of accomplishment after you survive it is right up there for me.

I love grommed trails also but I prefer the feel of my bike when its getting worked over.

[bulllet]

I like mine smooth, flowy, big fast berms that are easily hooked into.

I like to know that there is a stunt around the corner that will always be in mint condition and as fun as the first time I did it. I like the feel of doing a drop and cornering into the next berm to know I still have (insert number here) stunts left on the trail, wanting the trail to never end.

I would call myself a freerider more than a downhiller. I don't enjoy the "restrictions" of Dh as much as I love the freedrom of being able to pic a number of lines over a wide amount of area, that end up at the same place in the end.

I feel the word "freerider" gets used badly and has bad connotations put next to it. I feel alot of people now associate freeriding with hitting the biggest "huck" possible. To me freeriding is combining all my skills that I have learnt so far and putting them to the test over a distance of the trail length.

I incorporate street style into my riding, using things like wallrides, bunny hops, manualing in sections that otherwise would be "boring" I like to incorporate downhill style into my riding by staying low, fast over the small humps, and feeling that wind whistle past my ears. I feel that every freerider has their own different styles that they enjoy to incorporate into their trails.

All the good/great freeriders I can think have a style that is completely different to anothers. Steve Romanuik always pulling those one foot tables off gaps that would be thought impossible (you can tell he used to ride moto X)

these are some of the things that i care about in my trails. I put a great lot of care, effort and pride into the building and maintainance of the trails, and I think that All riders will agree, it doesn't matter what trail your riding, chances are you are already having fun.

[Plow King]

Fast 'n' Rocky.

It's great when your launchin down a hill flat out, going over sketchy rocks that buck you from side to side and back to front. Berms are always good, it's fun to get nice n low and fly around em. I'm not a very big fan off the steep stuff, or pointless drops that are to flat. Jumps are always fun aslong as they arn't too sketch (good for photo opps)

My $0.02

Cheers Chris

[LTR]

Fast and Rocky for me too... I just love bashing through rocks.

[FR Drew]

Okay fellas, this is a re-birth sort of of where some of us (myself and Johnny at least) would hope that the last Australian Trails thread could have gone.

Try to NOT:

-slag off other peoples work
-slag off clubs
-get personal

The last thread was closed because of the bitching.

Like the author of the last thread, I (for the moment) ride a hardtail.

I'd really like there to be something in between flat singletrack XC stuff and rock strewn, off camber death rides with 6 foot drops and 5 foot gaps.

If people can post up examples of what they consider to be desireable trail features, maybe we can be productive with this thread.

Useful input would be:
- how to make a trail feature not blow out or fall apart (rock armouring and rear reinforcement of berms, use of non rotting timber on northshore stunts etc)
-What a particular type of fature shouldn't be before/after for the purposes of maintaining flow (flat out groomed pedally straight into 180 degree camber hairpin followed by another fast straight, or 6 foot drop to steep tranny leads into 110 degree off camber tight turn)

Examples of sections that flow brilliantly are welcomed esp with photos.

BTW, it's probably help if you mentioned what sort of skill level/bike you have.

Try to keep things nice

[Mugger]

Preety much natural, use of natural berms, plenty of line choices in rock gardens. Kind of like the recently held race at Canungra.

Gap jumps are useless if you HAVE to do them to win but i'm only saying that cause I suck at jumping.

I like sections with nice flowy berms like bottem of Thredbo, that ruled.

[tonka_202]

yer, i rekon a great feature in a DH course is rock gardens of course (no dought(sp)) and a wallride, i cant really talk because i did not put in the effort to build this wallride but dave(i-am-teh-fastest) has, and alot of people have done his run, and alot of people go there just for the wallride, and they all love it and it holds togethor well.


just a few pics-
31544315453154631547
31548315493155031551


p.s. i do help on the trail now, and am working on it all day today tooo.

[Daver]

Fast and rocky with flat turns, wide, ski jump style jumps (ie- not that big of a gap, but to a looooong landing) and constantly muddy or dusty- no loam.

[I-AM-TEH-FASTEST-11]

pfffffft that track sucks.. bitch bitch bitch bitch bitiiitiitititch haha

but seriously


this is what I feel tracks should entail:

fast: the fastest times should be achieved by getting off the brakes rather than pedalling through flat sections and traverses

open: they should be at least 4 meteres wide at the thinest part (or as wide as possible). In this given area there should be multiple lines seperated by gnarly rocks, tree's, boulders, drops or whatever. The actual lines can be tight but the choices wide.

big jumps and gaps: watch our WC tracks. They have huge gaps and jumps. They are wide and groomed and just look the business. Mostly our gaps are slow hucks and skinny and meh you know my feelings. Just watch the footage of les gets and mt st anne. Hell yeh. OR hell eevn the jump they had at the end of the lithgow DH track back in 99 or 2000.. that madcore tabletop.

rocky and/but flowy: good tracks should be fast, so even if they are rocky as hell you can float or gap the hardcore sections.. or try. Watch fort william. The track looks rocky as hell but the riders are floating the entire thing.

3 minutes long: This should be the aim, hit that 3 minutish mark. Not 7 minutes or something (obviously faster riders are gonna be closer to the mark but whatever) The aim for me would be to position the field between say 3:10 and 4:30 (a fast, steep track can allow times to be closer rather than pedally tracks where huge amounts of time can be mad up by being super super fit and smooth.. which might not be a bad thing but it's borderline XC racing)

spectator friendly: having a few awesome sections set up for spectators to watch at, with decent access and views is a must for the sport to grow. Stromlo had this to an extent with a big camera/marshall structure and a lot of area for everyone to watch around this sketchy drop. Nice concept which I wanna see on more tracks aroudn the place. Once again something that WC and Norba tracks seem to have alot of. It would be good if these sections were rock gardens, jumps, insane fast nutjob sections and everything. rather than just some lil double or drop near the finish.. you know a bit of diversity so people can see what riding really is about (like the awaba state champs 04 where everyone was watching as smitho smashed down into first place through one gnarly assed rock garden with a broken wrist..... (watch conquest DVD for that one ;) )

I have a few more things to say, but I don't think I can without them pissing people off, so I might run them by Johnny to see if he can find a way to phrase them a lil more user friendly than I might.

PS. I don't really think posting my track in this thread is a good idea since it 90 percent contradicts what I wrote haha.

[.:Easily:.]

i like dh tracks that are smooth-ish and lots of rock gardens

i thrash the hell out of my hardtail

[hubbie]

i love smooth flowy tracks (especially cos i'm a hardtailer) where you know you'll have the time, space and correct conditions to pin a stunt that's coming up

[Loudvq]

I ride duel and hardtail and I would have to say there is no better feeling that going flatout and holding on and hoping for the best.

More to the point I like tracks that are going to shit yourself at high speeds.:cool:

[lowdeo]

lots of rocks, jumps, flowy berms more jumps.

think canugura but with clear mt jumps through it, now thats a DH track:cool:

$.02

[Arete]

OK, Once upon a time my only bike was a Norco Dh (skyscraper high bb, steep head angle, lots of travel). I liked nothing better than throwing it off/over/through all and sundry as sideways as possible with little regard for style, flow or any of that boring rubbish... I was all about "hucking", "northshore" and steep sketchy, seat of your pants stuff.

Fast forward through 6 years of progression, broken frames and bones and I walk out to my shed and find a D8 (low, slack, heavy downhill sled) a Premium Products BMX (21tt (biggish) BMX) and a Kona blast (low end xc rig).

49 times out of 50, I'll be out on the Bmx. I am a mostly a tech geek as far as my riding and progression go these days. I like riding park and dj on the bmx and I like the odd fire road epic on the Kona.

As far as DH trails, I like flow. I like a combination of rocks, roots, berms, drops, jumps etc. Creative, interesting and flowing trails that have been thought out rather than built like a Sydney train line float my boat. For example I used to love the top section of Red Hill (r.i.p.) and the single track section of woodford to glenbrook on an xc bike (a bit naff on a dh rig I guess).

It's not about a lack of maintentance on most of the trails I ride, rather than a lack of proper planning and placement of obstacles. It's about looking up at the next section of trail and thinking "cool" as you ride into it rather than "feck" as you throw a foot down or grab a handful of brake. Obviously at race speed that's a different scenario... but I'm talking "out for fun" speeds here. Things I don't like are coming around a corner into a blind obstacle, poorly thought out and constructed corners you can't carry speed through, gaps that have been built too short, chutes that have no run out... you get the picture.

Stuff like drops, Northshore, and "freeride" stuff is a lot better if built with getting over/through/down it fast and smooth in mind rather than just thrown up because it can be there.

I like to feel challenged, but not like if I screw up I'm leaving the trail strapped to a spineboard and I'd consider myself a confident and seasoned rider but not an especially good or quick one. If I can do it, most accomplished downhillers could, so if I like it, I'm guessing the majority of decent riders out there will too.

Anyways... that's my 2c

[tnankie]

speed!

I loath courses that require constant braking into every corner/stunt. I really don't want to Johny Wadel. So any stunts that require a very precise speed are not fun to me. (death by too slow OR fast is ok, but not death by too slow AND fast)

smooth and really fast suits me best, preferably with lots of tight turns through trees.

[spinner]

The ultimate DH trail for me wouldn't be on a steep hill , but on a moderate gradient and no real tight corners. I'd want to pedal my arse off up to 7th or 8th gear then stay off the brakes for the entire run.

The corners would be all be big radius , nothing tight. Maybe a touch of the brakes on entry , but otherwise dive in and hang on. A mix of long flowing berms and some off camber corners (as long as they don't scrub off too much speed) Some rocky , rough sections that keep you on your toes , but don't blow your arms off broken up with smoothish sections.

Basically , no repetition. Keep it mixed up so as to establish a rhythm to the trail.(did I just contradict myself ?!) Same goes for the corners , a few berms then some off camber or flat turns....then back to berms etc. Overall , fast , flowing and on the edge of control (or over the edge)

I think the only place for any sort of timber structure is where erosion or enviromental issues demand it. Like a bridge section over a bog hole or as a foundation for armouring. I'm just not interested in any shore style stuff.

Gaps would be fine , as long as theres some reward for hitting them. Like a slower B line around the side for those not confident enough to tackle them , but not slow enough to ruin the flow , just to add a couple of seconds penalty.

Jumps would be long tables or just a single mound with a long downhill tranny, with very little kick needed because of the high speeds involved. More about distance than height.

Imagine a DH ski run but dirt instead of snow. Thats what I'm talking about ! Watching the DH skiing last winter olympics , I was thinking , This is what DH MTB needs to be like. What a crowd puller.

Generally I enjoy a rocky , blown trail , but maybe thats because I haven't had the opportunity to ride a well groomed trail like some of the Whistler ones. I guess you adapt your style to whatever you ride the most.

[NCR600]

I can't say I've got that much experience on DH tracks, but of all I've ridden (the better known ones around the North of Sydney, Ourimbah & Thredbo),
I'd say Thredbo comes closest to my preferred style, although there are too many 'transit' stages.

Speaking as a chicken, I'd like to see tracks that reward skills and practice over outright balls. B Lines around drops & rockgardens that aren't necessarily slower. Obviously the fastest man will STILL be the guy with the biggest balls AND the most skills, but the guys that don't want to hit the big stuff won't get penalised for it. Makes the racing closer & better too.

Probably because I'm from a road motorcycle background. Any idiot can ride around Phillip Island. Not everyone can ride around Phillip Island like Rossi, cos he's got balls and skills.

It also might attract more people into the sport, because not everyone wants to drop or speed jump, or hammer across a gnarly rock garden at speed with the wheels just floating across the high points.

[sammydog]

Speaking as a chicken, I'd like to see tracks that reward skills and practice over outright balls. B Lines around drops & rockgardens that aren't necessarily slower. Obviously the fastest man will STILL be the guy with the biggest balls AND the most skills, but the guys that don't want to hit the big stuff won't get penalised for it. Makes the racing closer & better too.

Completely agree with you there, although I'd be one of the bigger chickens you'd meet (and I lack skill). But some race tracks with big gaps and stuff, well I may as well not turn up. I think thats where thredbo is good, everything is hitable, its just about how fast you can hit it.

The Amazon trail at awaba was built the same way. Most people can ride it, but it takes balls to be flat out the whole way.

My perfect trail would be the Amazon with a shorter shuttle trip to the top and some better drainage and erosion control at a few sections.

[oz-freerider]

with big gaps... i dunno about inter state but when ever we put on on a track you can normaly (99%) of the time the gap will have a drop being like a 4 foot drop max or you hit the jump at full speed and boost to a landing further away, i think this is a perfect way for a gap to be built as it's still hitable by most people although we still do put b lines around them but try not to make break the flow of the track but yes they will be slower as thats the point

if there a big gap the b line should be slow as thats the reward for hitting the gap.. other wise no one will bother but you shouldnt have like a 10 - 15 sec slower line around it

[FR Drew]

Nah, you can't have the B lines giving no speed/time penalty, otherwise there's no point taking the big lines at all.

There should always be a safer option, but with any track, more balls and more skill should always be rewarded with a quicker time.

[S.]

Steep, wide, fast, flowy, loose and with corners that you can see across. I really dislike tracks where you feel like you can't go fast because you have to come around a corner almost blind (for example, some of the bits dug into snakes and ladders at Thredbo where you can't see the track through the corner because it's 2ft below the rest of the ground level) and just have faith that no rocks have rolled across it or whatever. That doesn't test your skill, that just tests how religious you are (ie how much blind faith you have :p ). I also really like tracks where you can keep your speed up for long periods of time, regardless of whether it's smooth or rocky or what.

[NCR600]

Nah, you can't have the B lines giving no speed/time penalty, otherwise there's no point taking the big lines at all.

There should always be a safer option, but with any track, more balls and more skill should always be rewarded with a quicker time.

Balls + Skill get rewarded anyway.

I have a sneaking suspicion that many (maybe not all) the better riders would hit it up anyway. Where my theory comes into its own is giving somewhere to overtake safely, rather than having a novice who's just wobbled over a drop getting landed on by an expert. Also drops, jumps, rock gardens etc tend to be focal points for crashes. Having a 'fast' B line makes it easy to close off part of the track whilst marshalls clearthe broken bikes and people.

Also I'm just a chicken! (I don't race, so I have no vested interest in improving my times, it's just what I'd like to see)

[oz-freerider]

i race elite, if the b line was faster i would hit it.

[NCR600]

By 'fast' I don't mean faster!

2 or more alternate lines, of similar distance. Obviously one is going to be the one that sets you up best for the next section, and it would be nigh on impossible to make them the same as each other.

and yeah, why not make the easy line fastest sometimes? But make the lines similar, so that the only way to find out which is quickest is to practice all of them, or at least have a good think about it.

[oz-freerider]

because when i build a track i build it to what i can ride (or atleast hope i can haha) then b lines are an after thought and i cant really be bothered putting much effort into them. as genraly there is simply not enough time / people to get them done good so their mostly a rake and clear and bunt no digging... but as soon as everyone starts to see that they need to help as well things might start to change. having line choice is good but if you have somthing hard in a track it's there for a reson, DH is ment to be a challange (or atleast thats how i see it) i mean how boring would a perfectly smooth track be with a few jump here and there where everything is rollable fast... oh wait we have them... BMX TRACKS!

[ja_har]

I have to say my fav DH track in Australia so far would have to be Amazon / Awaba. From my relative inexperience this one seems to have everything, lots of variety, tons of flow and it rewards those with balls. I find myself always saying 'get off the brakes' rather than pedal harder which is rare in Australia. So it rewards skill / balls more than fitness which I think is why we ride DH rather than XC to start with. This track is rideable by most people but still challenges the best and the more I ride it, the grin gets bigger every time. I cant say I've said that since riding a year in Canada.

So what do I look for..speed, flow, flow, flow and variety. A track that gets harder the faster you go will provide endless challenge to keep improving.

[PINT of Stella, mate!]

Wide and swooping with a nice mix of rocky, tricky bits and fast smooth sections. Throw in a couple of wide dusty corners for big skids, a few big jumps with interesting b-lines for those like myself who often end up bottling it, stick it all on a big slope that has a mix of heavily forested sections and open exposed areas and place the finish line somewhere in the vicinity of a good pub and an Accident and Emergency ward! :D

[thecat]

Nah, you can't have the B lines giving no speed/time penalty, otherwise there's no point taking the big lines at all.

There should always be a safer option, but with any track, more balls and more skill should always be rewarded with a quicker time.

I agree but MTBA states there should be no time penality for taking a "B" line. Their theory is that if there is a big time difference you are pressuring poeple to take the "A" line and some of them will not be up to the task.

IMO, If the A line is harder then it takes more skill and energy to ride and therefore the rider should be rewarded for taking it. If there was no time difference between A and B lines why would any one risk the harder line?

Having an A line that set you up better for the next section is a good idea but having 2 lines that take the same time is not always practical.

[Daver]

IMO, If the A line is harder then it takes more skill and energy to ride and therefore the rider should be rewarded for taking it. If there was no time difference between A and B lines why would any one risk the harder line?

I agree... no point in having an A-line if the B-line is as fast.

[FR Drew]

The way I figure it, in any given category (Sport, Elite etc), most folks will be taking the same choice as far as A lines or B (or C) lines go. This means that within your category, the option that suits the skill level of the riders will have bugger all impact upon their relative times.

Having a B line that is faster than an A line will kill the sport. The top riders at the Hill, Graves, Rennie etc level will have no incentive aside from ego to push the big drops and gaps Instead, they'll opt to take the lower risk option to ensure that they make it to the bottom of the hill with less mechanicals, less chance of DNF etc. (which will stop the sport attracting spectators and sponsors)

MTBA needs to have a serious look at that rule.

Anyone who takes a big line, weighs up the potential speed gain against the potential risk to completing their run or mechanicals or injury. Got the skills? Then you hit it and reap the rewards.

Is MTBA going to somehow tell me that there ought to be a groomed garden path past a rock garden so I can ride my hardtail down that section of the track just as fast as a pro rider can hit the lumpy stuff, but at no risk to myself? That's a crock of shit.

[youngone]

I just love riding - that's why i ride bmx, motorbikes, and MTBs. Variety is, as they say, the spice of life.
Fast flowing stuff,
Slow technical stuff,
and everything in-between.
I'm not real flash (read dead set hopeless) at jumps and large drops and stuff (but bear in mind i'm just riding my shogun - see below), but i love the challenge of the stuff i'm no good at.
My new bike should turn up today - can't wait!!!


31669!

[thecat]

MTBA needs to have a serious look at that rule.


It's a guide line not a hard and fast rule.
And probably thinking more along the lines of insurance "Hey my boy wouldn't have taken that line but he had to if he wan't to win...." point of view.

Thankfully there isn't too many B lines out there that are an advantage to top riders to take.

[udi]

I disagree that b-lines should be equally fast (seems like the majority vote here).

If the a-lines aren't faster then there is no reason for faster riders to hit it OR for less able riders to learn to hit it. I would like to think that when I step it up to doing the a-line of any particular section, that it will actually be shaving off the milliseconds - not just adding brownie points.

My only other comment is on rocky sections. I love them (sharp, round, rooty, whatever) but they shouldn't slow you down to the point where you almost stop and have to pedal. If they are going to be that agressive they should either be steep enough to keep you moving, or incorporate flat/ter sections to help build up speed again.

[I-AM-TEH-FASTEST-11]

on that UDI I think you're right, unless it is one of those sections where you can pin it if you have the sack for it. Like at Awaba the rock garden there you would see elites go through like it was a straight smooth section of track, but other riders were stopping and braking down it and even stopping dead..... so it's all relevent to what is possible....

and I think the who a-line, b-line thing is a wank anyway. We should be making tracks wide enough to have multiple lines.. no seprate A and B just mass of rocks and crap to negotiate.. I mean you can make drops rollable if you want.. but the idea should be to create sections where the riders ability to pick a fast line is key, not just saying "ok a-line is faster lets take that"

[johnny]

and I think the who a-line, b-line thing is a wank anyway. We should be making tracks wide enough to have multiple lines.. no seprate A and B just mass of rocks and crap to negotiate.. I mean you can make drops rollable if you want.. but the idea should be to create sections where the riders ability to pick a fast line is key, not just saying "ok a-line is faster lets take that"Yep, I think that's an excellent point. Skill in picking lines should be rewarded. In saying that, I also enjoy trails like Thredbo where everyone pretty much gets the same line. This just means you get to see who is the fastest outright. Level playing field brings pure riding skills to the fore.

[shore_2]

I like all kinds of DH tracks except ones with lots of peddeling. Thredbo would be my favourite it's just so long and i like the way it goes from the rockier top section into the more dirt orientated sections down the bottom. It's also great fun getting up some decent speed for once.
The only thing that disapoints me about thredbo is the lack of line choice and it could do with some A line jumps and Drops.
Ourimbah is also a fantastic track.

[johnny]

I like all kinds of DH tracks except ones with lots of peddeling.
Ourimbah is also a fantastic track.Hmmmm, something doesn't add up here..........:p

[scblack]

If the A and B lines do not have a time difference, then there is NO A & B lines really, no matter how gnarly the "A" line may be - just a choice between two lines.

In my opinion the A line has to be faster, or whats the point? If you have the skill, or balls, you get an advantage. Isn't that the mission statement kind of thing in the MTBA rule book, I remember that it says something like: DH is a test of rider skill, and courage.

[sammydog]

on that UDI I think you're right, unless it is one of those sections where you can pin it if you have the sack for it. Like at Awaba the rock garden there you would see elites go through like it was a straight smooth section of track, but other riders were stopping and braking down it and even stopping dead..... so it's all relevent to what is possible....

Thats the thing with that rock garden and why I like it soo much, a lot of people really struggle with it, but at the same time, we had to put that chicane in out of the chute to slow up the fast elite guys because it was becoming dangerous.

No need for a B-Line, it was all just about skill and balls.

[I-AM-TEH-FASTEST-11]

we had to put that chicane in out of the chute to slow up the fast elite guys because it was becoming dangerous.
.

SO IT WAS YOU??!!!! *shakes fist*

haha

not that I'm a fast elite guy.... or even fast

[sammydog]

No, neither am I. I'm one of those guys hoping to come out of the rock garden alive.

[Ruckus_Lord]

Well basically like society these days...Meaning, An increase of man made stuff, while still keeping good sections of 'natural' terrain....

Man made stuff being:
-Wall rides
-Berms
-Jumps
-Drops
ect ect.

Natural stuff being:
-Rock gardens
-Tree roots (And trees for people like Mugger who like to run into them and claim they didn't see it.:p)
-Ruts
-Sketchy corners


'Downhill' in my opinion needs to have stuff that tests all of your skills, Elements for doing this could be things such as:
-Tight sections, Rock gardens and things like wallrides for technical abilities
-Preferably large gaps and drops to test your self comfort and skills with jumping.
-Wide open areas to test your abilities at high speeds.

I think all of these elements have to be brought into a track to truly determan the skill lever of a certain rider (or yourself for that matter), And without stuff that you look at and think/say "Holy shit!" is what keeps it real and helps push the sport of 'Downhill'....If you don't have big and gnarly stuff to scream dowm then yourself as a rider and the riding community and tracks for that matter will stay at the same level.

I think 1 or 2 'massive' gaps on a Downhill track is good (with B-lines of course) Side note: B-lines SHOULD be slower than the A-line by a fair amount otherwise there's no reason for the more 'elite' riders to step up and hit the a-line (other than self satisfaction) and 'smaller' gaps through out the track...Gaps and jumps i think are a very important part of a Downhill track...

Another very important part of a Downhill track is of course the Corners, Off cambers are always a fun thing, but you can't have off camber corners the whole way down a track so mixing it up with some nice berms and even the odd flat, loose, sketchy corners is always good...If the corners arn't going right then it's going to be quite difficult to keep a good pace down.:)

Man made things, like wallrides (refer to Thredbos wallride) and drops/jumps (as mentioned above) are good...It kin of gives a different 'feel' to the track and adds a nice challenge for people who arn't often confronted with 'man made' things; On the note of 'man made', the Illinbah track has a wooden northshore style bridge crossing over a creek which appears to be fairly gnarly as it's about a 10ft drop below to a rocky river bed, and to make things even better it's at the bottom of a shit fast chute! So try adding a bridge....fun stuff...

Talking about 'chutes', I personally love them...big long rocky chutes that can be hit at crazy fast speeds are lots of fun, having a small "g-out" at the bottom gives you that crazy feeling in your stomach which is also cool.:D

Basically, just to build stuff a bit more 'gnarly' (if that is the right word these days) than usual; Something that you would look at and not imagine doing straight away and maybe not hit it for a while but have that goal of hitting it up in your mind...That's what I think makes a Downhill track awesome.:cool:

That's my view on things...

-Drew

[rabatt]

my favorit track is kinchent,

though i'v only riden kinchant, ?goldie? (the one in rocky, i think thats what they called it) and a little one that was never realy finished out at seaforth.

the rocky track was fun but i would get board with it after a while, its not very long and dosent have heaps of variety though i like the bottom section with all the swichbacks... and the second jump up the top, i didnt like the first jump much... nealy killed my self on it (i thought it was the second jump and hit it way to slow)

the seaforth one has potential to be a very fun track but at the moment has things like a large drop (not quite as big as rockys) that has about 6-7 m to a very tight s bend also all the corners are to tight and there's an up hill bit.

kinchant is defanently the best, it has every thing, tight technical sections up the top, very fast flowing sections, rock gardens (with smileys on the ones to avoid) a few drops, jumps and a norshore aframe ( it dosent actuly have to be there but it slows people down a bit)

so what i like in a dh track is:

big rock gardens that arnt so steep that you have to brake and arent so flat that you have to peddle.

drops/stairs (the start of the junur section is one of my faverite bits of kinchant)

steep rock/root sections leading into big berms.

fast swoopy sections like the access road bit.

multipull line choice, the big rock garden in the junuor section is a good example of this, there are at least four comonly used lines and contless others.

i like a few berms too, and flat corners... off camber corners scare me (there not scary on a duelly though)

and the mandatory finish line jump, very long so that to land on the landing you have to peddle flat out for the run in, though it has to be flat or only slightly upsloped so you can do it at any speed.(once again check the jump at kinchant, i can nealy clear it but there are lots of people who hardly jump at all and they only have a hard landing not broken arm/leg/bike.



$0.0002

[dirt_hurts]

Originally Posted By NCR600
Speaking as a chicken, I'd like to see tracks that reward skills and practice over outright balls. B Lines around drops & rockgardens that aren't necessarily slower. Obviously the fastest man will STILL be the guy with the biggest balls AND the most skills, but the guys that don't want to hit the big stuff won't get penalised for it. Makes the racing closer & better too.

Personally, 90% of the time i'll ride a track for enjoyment raher than to race for a time, and thats where i believe an a-line that is no faster than the b-line could be useful. I know that starting out riding on a track that I haven't seen before, I'll be a pansy and take an easier line every time i get a chance. However once I've riden it for a time then I'll start getting bolder and take lines that are harder/have a larger obstacle than the chicken runs. This is more for an enjoyment return than one of time. It also means that if I'm going down a hill at warp speed i can take an easier line to keep up the run without a risk of serious bodily harm...

Also, as others have said I like a track that is wiiiddddddddeeeeeee. It makes speed a whole lot easier, and fun too, as your not riding thinking "Crap that tree's close to my bars"

And long too... It might make the shutle run longer, but if it's built well it doesn't nessicarily have to. And what'd you rather for just fun riding, 2 min or 10 min?

[bikekid127]

more of a freeride track fast but with some big hits all the way down

[Matt H]

Was that really worth the dig?

But anyway...

I like a smoother flowy-er type of track compared to a rutted out and rock strewn nightmare. Good transitions and high berms is what does it for me. It'd be nice to see some wallrides as well, or even a huge berm with a bit of wood up the top - if you know what I mean. Definitely not a fan of hucks to flat though *cough mt stuart track cough*

[bikekid127]

had nothing better to do, there is worse threads to dig up

[kyleman]

I like mud and ski jumps :)
hehehe
A tight fast berm pump section is always good.

[scratchy]

OK, to chuck my 2 cents in.

B line should be almost as fast as the A-line.
When the trail was initally constructed the A-line would have been the focus for that section of trail, so often it has a straighter exit, entry.
For the punters hitting it at the slower speed then it's not that much of a disadvantage hitting the B line. I can relate to the "if you don't clean that extreme section, don't bother showing up". It doesn't help our sport as it puts off marginal riders who know they don't stand a chance. Don't penalise them too much and let them have a race of it, a DH track result for the whole field should not be determined by one feature alone.

Because the A-line is the natural line, because the trail has been designed with that line in mind, the elites hitting it much faster will get a benefit from hitting the A-line, hence for them the A-line is faster than the B-line.*

Make it fun and challenging for all levels. And give me sections I will look back on and think I might be able to do it without touching the brakes (ie. flowey sections).

*Disclaimer: This assumes correct trail construction.

[dj_nic]

My favourite type of Downhill would be more technical rocky sections with a few off camber corners a few burms that you can rail a nice gnarly rock garden and a few drops littered over the track. i have never ridden a groomed trail with perfect bums and no brakeing ruts and i am sure a lot of us here havent. Even though a smoother track would suit my bike better (4 inchs of travel) i do prefer a long track with lots of challanging sections that change through out the whole track. i would have to say the one track that has bit of all of this would be Mt Dandenong i wold rate myself and average downhiller as i have only really got into it as of the start of this year i have ridden Eildon, Ararat, tracks in warrendyte and Buller (a while back on me old STP)..
well that is my 2c
Nick