Hardtail or duallie?

[josh]

Hah! First post in the new forum section!

What kinda frame do you xc'ers run and why?

For me its a hardtail, better climbing. Myself and nathan (nother toowoomba lad) are going to do some of those 4hr races etc next year and I was thinking a short travel dualie would be comfy for those long laps!

[nicklouse]

i have one of each!

for the long rides the dually
and the fast sprints !!! the ht.

[splunk]

I have had 2 HTs in the past and decided that I would see what all the hype was about and jumped onto a NRS duallie. The duallie suited my riding style more and the weight is noticable, but only just. Hill climbs are great! No bob and down hills are more complient.
All in all, I am extremly happy with this duallie and would recommend it to any XCer.

Anyone else out there own any other brand of XC duallie? Kona? Trek? gary fisher? GT?

[nicklouse]

mine is a scott octane from '99!
builds up to about 13kg (just under) could be lighter in the wheel dept but i dont race so.

haven't used it much recently because of the new toy! (see sig) and the rear shock is knackered. might look at a spv shock for it!http://www.pinkbike.com/modules/photo/?op=view&image=51175

[shan75]

I have a Giant NRS Air. Sweet ride bulit to just under 11kg. Absolutely hammers.

I have a schwinn moab 2

http://www.farkin.net/forums/album_pic.php?pic_id=1653

[lupine128]

i'm taking a cpl of girls out riding on some really easy XC tracks. up until last week, i was riding my DH rig.....
now i'm riding a trek bruiser set up for 4X....
i'm slowly moving in the right direction i suppose.

[Saint George]

My current xc bike is an ATX 870 hardtail. While my last bike was an ATX970 full suspension, but after a couble of rides l soon made some new rear links to give it 5 inch of travel in the rear, and a new set of RST hi 5s at the front. Had heaps of bounce but heavy as on the uphill climbs.
One of the best things about a hardtail is less moving parts to break down in the middle of nowhere.

[Squidly Didly]

http://www.farkin.net/forums/albums/1366.jpg

no comment...

[Ty]

myself and ryan were given a norco fluid to review a little while back, will have the full review up soon, but i was impressed how well a few inchs of travel improved climbing on a rocky/bumpy surface.

and Squidly thats a sweet ride.

[bingle]

i ride an NRS2 for xc. it is fantastic and a really fast bike. they climb great.

[tonas]

http://www.farkin.net/forums/albums/1366.jpg

no comment...

enough said... :shock:

[S.]

http://www.farkin.net/forums/albums/1366.jpg

no comment...

Sick... I need to have a go on one of those things, they look sweet as!

[Turley]

I ride a HT for XC but, I would love to have a short travel dually. I can feel the advantages climbing on my big hit, if it was lighter and minus about 5inch of travel it would be a climbing demon! And it gives you that extra bit comming back down :)

[Daver]

Hey squid, i thought you hated raceface parts?... then why are they on your bike?..... :P

[green_chairs]

I have a Kona Stuff for all my riding at the moment. She's a bit heavy, but i've chucked on an extra chainring, so she gets me there.

[Cúl-Báire]

At the moment, I ride a hardtail... I wouldn't mind making a light weight XC rig as opposed to racing my trail beast around. :P

But after riding 6hours, as part of a pair in the Gravity 12Hour, I can certianly see the benifit of riding a dualie, prehaps something like Giants NRS is the go. :D

[Dhfactory]

I have an Avanti compeditor (HT),
It's a few years old now, but it always served me well.

But after riding 6hours, as part of a pair in the Gravity 12Hour, I can certianly see the benifit of riding a dualie, prehaps something like Giants NRS is the go. :D

i raced the perth 12 hour on a nrs2 it was a very sweet ride indeeed

squid - you have the brilliant xc bike but you raced the 24 hour(?) on your gemini :?

[Cúl-Báire]

Or maybe even something a bit lighter... I was thinking of getting an Avanti Aggressor, and putting my Duke Race's, and other lightweight trick bits on it...but all that costs money :(

Ohhh and squid thats a fine looking bike you got there... 8)

[Rik]

My bike's off the road right now, but as soon as I get a new bottom bracket, I'll be running a full rigid, for the ultimate in luxury.

[neko]

99' Cannondale F1000. 1.5 slicks and discs. Comutes like a dream.

[struggles]

I've got an 03 stinky and an 03 giant XtC that runs slicks, 9 spd ulterga rear mech and 11-23 cassette for the ride to work. I raced the stinky in the Mont 24hr and it went ok just struggled up the hills thats all but it smoothed out the rest of the course better than my hardtail would have.

[norco_one25]

ive ridden this road/pavement trail (yarra trail) on my norco one25,
would this xc stuff screw up my bike as it wasnt designed for long distanace pedalling?

[green_chairs]

probably not. Your bike is made to be ridden, it would get ridden that distance anyway, just not always in the one go. I ride along the yarra trail to the city from my place fairly often, its about 30km, and I do it on my Kona Stuff. It still works fine. If you want to be extra careful, there is single track following the path all the way up to ivanhoe, even a bit further at points.

[zac]

i've currently got a 1998 norco rampage hardtail (XC style) which i use for pretty much everything. when i get my iron horse g-spot built up i'll use that for off road and the rampage for onroad and commuting. i'm thinking i'll probably stick the g-spot in 4in travel for xc, and 5 for everything else, but i'll see what happens. it'll work out a fair bit heavier than the rampage, but i'm counting on the rear travel to even things out a bit and give me a bit more confidence on the trails.

when the g-spot is finally finished, the norco will probably end up singlespeed with either crappy old z3s or a rigid fork, and i might still take it outon the trails cause it's such a nice frame to ride.

[bryn]

hey squid on your XC bike, is there a reason it only has one shock ?

[Mommers]

<---------------

[Mommers]

hey squid on your XC bike, is there a reason it only has one shock ?

that is because its using Cannondale's Headshok system.

[Aman]

http://www.farkin.net/forums/albums/1366.jpg

no comment...

Now thats what I'm talking. I need one of those............I'd rather leftes and full XTR but thats me.........

[Squidly Didly]

Now thats what I'm talking. I need one of those............I'd rather leftes and full XTR but thats me.........

But if you go Lefty, you can't have full xtr!!! diffrent hubs/rotors. Sorry had to be a smart ass...

[dunk]

I'm riding a full suspension Intense Tracer, but flick the lock out on the rear, hey presto hard tail, flick the front - rigid.

[Sutek]

[quote="Ty"]myself and ryan were given a norco fluid to review a little while back, will have the full review up soon, but i was impressed how well a few inchs of travel improved climbing on a rocky/bumpy surface.

I have a fluid and it is a top lil bike. I actually replaced everything but the frame and fox VanillaR, but not because it didnt work, I just ended up brutalising the bugger so opted for heavier bits. It was a noice trail/xc bike with a bit of travel to boot.

Now it sits atop Serman Slider triple clamps, Michy 2.8 front, High roller 2.5 rear and a bag of hard ass DH bits. The thing is I kept the front mech on and still take it XC! Kills like fuck on the climbs but makes all jealous on the decents. Its 6" front 5.25" rear.

The big bonus is when I jump on my Marin CroMo HT I absolutely fly uphill due to the conditioning from climbing on the lil Norco Monster.

XC can be fun...I comromise a little and usually take a heavier bike out but have a ball on the more intense sections. Its a trade off I'm always willing to make. The Marin usually does me on the road for fitness.

Gunna take it to Central Australia Bike Challenge next march!!!

[125PHIL]

well, all i can say is best of both worlds, i I-drive, or gettign a little old skool but the shwinn rocket 88, GT LTS and RTS are killer as when u appy force on the pedal stock when climbing for example it openin up the shock and makes it almost liek a hardtail, i think when it comes down to it id rather have dewlie, but it would have to be one of those either a rocket or a I-drive>
does any one know or riden the schwinn delta 88, there a toal different linkage but do they work the same as like a rocket???

[Ride_Guy]

Now thats what I'm talking. I need one of those............I'd rather leftes and full XTR but thats me.........

But if you go Lefty, you can't have full xtr!!! diffrent hubs/rotors. Sorry had to be a smart ass...

Sorry had to be even more of a smart as, but i saw it today, a lefty with a XTR hub and all the shite :twisted:

[Grover]

i gotta say i think the hardtail is a dying breed. yeah, if you've got more than one bike then you'll have a hardtail just for the hell of it but with the improvements of rear suspension designs there is gonna there is no way people will own a hardtail as they're only bike. if you're gonna get a dualie have a look at a yeti as-r, cannondale scalpel, scott genius, specialized epic.

[BagofSkill]

Well I started on a HT, then went to a KHS softail, which was very nice. Cromo frame and 1 inch of rear travel was great for XC, but then I rode a proper dually. So very nice that I bought my current frame, another KHS, this time xc904r. I've gotta say, it is so much more comfortable to ride, all day or even for short stints. There is almost no bob with the fsr/horst link designs (Specialized, Giant and KHS), and the thing has noticable more grip for climbing, and it really doesn't feel to me like it's sucking any energy on climbs, not like bikes a couple of years ago were.
And so I've only got one bike, I even trow some slicks on it if I need to commute or train, and the thig is even awesome on road. That's how good modern suspension is. I also find that you can use the suspenision to help you jump/hop higher than normal, to clear logs and stuff easilly. and even without being a wieght weenie (I even have hydro disks), it weighs 13.3 kg. It could be trimmed to under 12 easy.
So for me, dual suspension every time from now on.

[janjuc]

i've got a '02 specialized rockhopper pro, duel, its fine, and extremly quick

and its just as quick as a hardtail, and u can have more fun :D

[LordNikon]

Don't gravedig unless you've got something usefull to add janjuc, not just that you like your bike.

[Trentm]

I think you cant go past the duallie.It provides much more comfort and if you go for the rite model like the nrs or i drive you eliminat the unwanted bobbing when pedaling.

[Hagar]

Dual suspension is definetly the way to go these days. I used to ride and race a GT Zaskar and have upped to a Trek Fuel. If you want to go fast or go long, or be generally comfortable the duallie is now the pick. If you check out the race scene and the guys who do well at least 50% ride duallies and of those a good prportion ride Trek Fuels.
A good short travel duallie these days will not bob and will still feel suprisingly plush. It will also climb and corner better as the wheel is following the terrain rather than skipping across it. For XC racing and adventures the Hardtail is left to gather dust.

I love my Fuel its the absolute bomb. Its so damn fast, corners brilliantly and weighs in at 10.5 kg with a 100mm fork and tubeless tyres.

[chris7]

i use a hartail because they are lighter and faster basically, and easier to ride

[Cyco]

i use a hartail because they are lighter and faster basically, and easier to ride

Have to disagree with you. A HT may be lighter with the same component spec, but a Duely is faster and far easier to ride.

A duely will roll over many objects in the trail that a HT can hook up on, making riding easier.

Several years ago C'Dale gave their riders HTs Scapiels and Jeckyls, they then proceded to time every lap the riders did on each cours on each bike (they riders had the choice of what they would race). The next year at the equiptment issuing the rides protested the lac of HTs - C'Dales responce was that if the riders could show them a course that they had riden faster on a HT' they could have a HT for that course. No C'Dale rider rode a HT that year (or since IIRC).

[Cúl-Báire]

Cyco Wrote:Have to disagree with you. A HT may be lighter with the same component spec, but a Duely is faster and far easier to ride.

A duely will roll over many objects in the trail that a HT can hook up on, making riding easier.

Several years ago C'Dale gave their riders HTs Scapiels and Jeckyls, they then proceded to time every lap the riders did on each cours on each bike (they riders had the choice of what they would race). The next year at the equiptment issuing the rides protested the lac of HTs - C'Dales responce was that if the riders could show them a course that they had riden faster on a HT' they could have a HT for that course. No C'Dale rider rode a HT that year (or since IIRC).

I'll have to disagree with you a bit there Cyco- I know/of a few people that have done this test; On a light weight "race" Hardtail and a "race" Dualie, simularily spec'ed and on a few seperate occasions... Often the hartail was marginally faster- but not by much.

It's still general consensis that a Hardtail is still faster on the flater/smother tracks due to it's sprinting ability also on the Hilly courses the hardtail was a quicker climber. When the going gets rough though a Dualie is what you want to be sitting on- Rougher, more technical sections/trails is where the Dualie shined.

Here's were the rest of the "abit" from up the page comes up. Presonally for the shorter race's trails I'd prefer to be on a hardtail, thats where I'm more confident; but on the longer epic's and enduro's I'd much rather be sitting on a dualie as their benifits outweigh the negitives.

Idealy we'd all have two bikes, a hardtail and an XC dualie. Unfortunatly dualies cost more :roll:

[Cyco]

I'll have to disagree with you a bit there Cyco- I know/of a few people that have done this test; On a light weight "race" Hardtail and a "race" Dualie, simularily spec'ed and on a few seperate occasions... Often the hartail was marginally faster- but not by much.

It's still general consensis that a Hardtail is still faster on the flater/smother tracks due to it's sprinting ability also on the Hilly courses the hardtail was a quicker climber. When the going gets rough though a Dualie is what you want to be sitting on- Rougher, more technical sections/trails is where the Dualie shined.

Here's were the rest of the "abit" from up the page comes up. Presonally for the shorter race's trails I'd prefer to be on a hardtail, thats where I'm more confident; but on the longer epic's and enduro's I'd much rather be sitting on a dualie as their benifits outweigh the negitives.

Idealy we'd all have two bikes, a hardtail and an XC dualie. Unfortunatly dualies cost more

When I first went to a duelie I thought that the two bikes senario would be great, and I would pick the one that suited the trail best and so forth.

That the duely I got was an Ellsworth Id and pedals rather well could have somthing to do with it, but in the 18 months I have been riding it so far the HT came out a couple of times at the start, put hasn't been touched since - other than the time waiting to get my rear shock Pushed. Since getting the shock back I've given the HT to my father as it was just a dust collector!

I may be adding a HT to my collection down the track but only in the guise of a DJ or Trials bike (and the Road/Track/TT/CX bikes as well) ;)

[MrCove]

i always seem to go back to riding hardtails
for XC anyway, i use F/S for freeride and DH but i always end up going back to the razor sharp madness of riding hardtail

did a VERY rocky 54km's on Sunday on a Stiffee FR and i just loved it

it also made it up a rock ledge that no-one else did, but loose out on traction on some smooth step off camber stuff

i always feel i can really slam a well made hardtail with out any fear of it breaking, i do ride kind of 'finesse free'!!!

but, i'll be getting a spangly new Hustler in a week or so........

[Philo]

Well all I've got is an A.C. which seems to do for most thing's but I did the working week 8hr race and would have loved to be on an N.R.S. or similar XC duelie. Did last lap on mates V.T. and it was easier so I can only imagine what a Cannondale or something would be like.
Still think I'd go duelie over H.T. anyday. Don't mind being called soft :)
Hopefully one day I'll be able to have a rig for each purpose :D

Philo...

[Roast-Rider]

a mate of mine has done the mont 24 hour a few times. everytime on a hardtail. the last time he did it he tried out a rockshox shox susp seatpost and was very impressed. maybe the best of both worlds.

[bluewonder2]

short travel suspension- around about 90mm. just as good on climbs and sprinting- but absolutely rips on the downhills and more stable in corners.
the trick is to get a slightly smaller frame than you would a hardtail. my picks are specialized stumpjumper, Scott cr frame and intense spyder

[Bodin]

I used to think that duallies were more comfortable, because my back always hurt more after riding my HT , but since I've made some adjustments to the fit of my HT and created a more relaxed riding position (old guys like me can't do the "race" position anymore...), I can honestly say that I don't know what's more comfortable... I spent three hours riding the rocky, undulating trails in Castlemaine and I never felt the need to be on my dually (S-Works Enduro - http://www.farkin.net/forums/album_pic.php?pic_id=12934).

I would definintely ride my duallie for multi-day stuff, but I'm considering riding my HT in an upcoming 8 hour race (HDATO) next month, which would not have been a possibillity a year ago... Aside from all of that, building a 11kg race bike out of a HT costs about half what it takes to build a 12kg duallie and NOTHING beats the feel of a truly lightweight bike.

[Disco]

Aight... having ridden a Merida HT for the last year i have loved it... but ATM its coming down to my back beginning to die on me so a dually i will be headed. I'm thinking a Specialized XC or Specialized Stumpjumper FSR (both stripped to frame only)... do you think paying for the difference of A1 or M4 alloy is worth it? Trail riding do you think the 4" or 5" variant is Worth it? I did consider the old-school Enduro but the frame goes as far back as '02 :? ... not really the latest and greatest. Lend me your opinions.

Little Mike

[Bodin]

Being that I ride an FSR bike, I can recommend the suspension design - and mine doesn't even have a ProPedal/spv/5thElement shock, just a plain ol' Fox Float... The only thing I have against it is that it'll never be the quickest sprinter in the pack - it's designed to be a plush, fully active system and feels mushy under out-of-the-saddle, balls-out attack mode. It'll provide the smoothest ride over everything else, though. Because the FSR design has been unchanged since its inception, you're safe buying whatever Specialized model suits you - as long as it's been looked after, of course.

I bought the M5 S-Works Enduro because I was after some serious eye candy and the 4 or 5 inch settings gave me pretty much all the options I'll ever need. I'm too much of a pussy to ride serious DH, so I'll never need more than 5 inches and I've got a HT that I really like for any courses that demand less than 4 inches, so the Enduro covers everything else I'll ever do.

If I didn't have a dually, I would definitely give serious consideration to ANY well-maintained Enduro.

[george222]

hey
i ride a xtc2 disc with manitou skrabs and i find it is a awesome. it is really good on the hills. it is a bit skechy on the down hill but if u learn to ride it it is sweet as! like i beat nealy every guy on a duellie i go against! :D so if u r a smooth rider a ht is the way to go! but it is also up to personal prefrance :D

[skinner]

I went through all this not too long ago and i ended up with a sick 04 NRS1...its the best bike, very light and fast. good for most things from the smooth to the not so smooth. good for the fast technical trails as well.