Advocating For Legal Trails In Campbelltown NSW

[scuba05]

Hello all, relatively new to the site. Im from Campbelltown in NSW. I have a large section of bush practicly on my back door step.
In our area, many people have tried to build some nice MTB trails, with drops, DH sections and so on. Unfortunatly, a few of these have been pulled down by our local counsil. :mad:
Now im only in High School, and for sport we do MTB ridin,:D and now me and a few of me mates are wanting to start trying to work with our counsil to try and get a section of land or such that will allow us to build trails without the counsil wanting to pull them down. We are hoping to build some DH like trails, and some drops (anything we can find, hopefully above 10ft). :cool:
So, we have got some petitions out to our local bike shops, we will be sooon handing a couple out to some mates who know some people, and will start collecting some names to try and persuade our counsil. If you live in the Campbelltown area, please drop into either:
-Bike Mason (queen st, campbelltown)
-Campbelltown Bike Barn (Lithgow St, Campbelltown)
OR
-Camden Discout Cycles(Argyle St){will hopefully hand in a petition there soon}

Any help will be MUCH appreciated, and will hopefully benifit you in some way, Even if you reply with some ideas, advice.

PS- this is also part of an advocacy assignment for school which got our minds thinking:p

[scratchy]

Scuba05 Well done, you've come to the right place. Despite what slipknot says the shear fact that the council has got their head around Motorcross and Skating suggests that they would be receptive to Mountain Biking. Unlike the others MTBing is an Olympic sport.
Check out this thread http://forums.farkin.net/showthread.php?t=55786
Before going too far with petitions, I would actually talk to council workers. Say those who were involved in the process of developing the Skate park. They may be able to point you in a direction to better focus your effort.

Unfortunately Slipknot has the wrong attitude, councils don't give anything. The are lobbied and approached by an organised group who understand that there is a process everything council does has to go through. Start to talk to council and you're already on your way.

[mtb_slipknot_fan]

yeh i think negatively i cant help it, i agree but you see if its the area that i think scuba wants to build there is guna be near to nil chance of them granting permission as apparently the area holds the greatest population of koalas in nsw and crap, me and my mates have talked about doing something like this recently but didnt take it any further because of all tha crap associated, it annoys me because our council seems to hate the mtb community they've even cut TREES down in one spot where they tore down a trail to prevent that spot being used as a drop again :mad: the illegal trail builders in the area have made it very hard for people like you scuba who want to be able to legally build a trail, im not saying dont try u need to be really prepared with tha council side of crap thou, it would would be a great idea to see a legal trail but its to complicated for me,ill jus stick to getting people to sign ya petition for you good luck with it

[scuba05]

I can see where you are coming from Slipknot. We may be fighting a losing battle, but its one i wouldnt mind fighting. We just need to explain to the council we dont just cut down a tree cause we feel lik it, we dont even do it if thers a tree in the middle of our track. The good thing is my dad knows a couple of counsilors n shit so we may be able to work it through them, and also we have lots of leaverage in ym opinion. The skaters all got their skate park(after a couple of years), and even if they knock us back, were still gunna build, cause wer lways gunna b a step ahead of them, plus, i dont think many of them go through the bush actually looking for the trails.
One of the main reasons IMO that the peter meadsows(PM) trails got torn down is cause they were right next to the road and everyone saw them. But the people who built them also built the shores at the top of kentlyn near the primary school, but luckily they couldnt tear them down cause the land was woned by the dept. of land or sumfin along those lines, so it was outta their duristiction.:p
Theres no harm in trying to get a place to build, and we are more than happy to build the stuff by ourselves, cause i know many people that would help. Im bloody hoping the counsil allows us in the not so distant future to be able to build, as it prob wont be any time soon, but im sure we can just make do with what we have for now, and look around for other places.

[mtb_slipknot_fan]

peter meadows probably got knocked down because council workers were working near by and stumbled right across them, theres shore in kentlynn?? where bouts do you want to be able to build a legal track hopefully not where your building illegal ones because apparently people on this site says councillers actually go out and check the land your proposing for or sum crap

[boofhead254]

that was a bumber when that happened they had a good run a good drop and jumps there:D . when i was told that they had pulled it down i was so anoyed with the council:mad: . it is also a good idea for having a block of land that the council wont pull down mtb tracks because we need something to do on weekends.:rolleyes:

[scuba05]

we dont really mind were we build, but we have some ideas where we would like. We wouldnt care if we had to go out to wedderburn(there r some good 1s ther swell). We would just like to get a legal place to build in our area, cause we are all arouns 15/16, so no drivers license. We currently have a few people, including me, writing to the counsil, and will prob go and talk to them sometime in the coming months, and try persuade them to see it from our point of view

[mtb_slipknot_fan]

yeh same situation here agewise, a good tip would be to read the threaD scratchy left a link for in this thread it gives tips about how to aproach council and so on or talk to the youth liasion thingy in this area apparently he/she helped the skaters of campbelltown lobby the council for a skatepark and they got one just a thought.....

[boofhead254]

well if that is the case then it might help to get a block of land hopefully to build legal mtb tracks and dh trails:D . If the petition goes well that will help alot with the coucil.

[mtb_slipknot_fan]

yeh but only if it was that easy no1 would be building illegal trails, only if i had some goo d land to build on:(

[boofhead254]

thats true but we just have to keep working on the council and soffen them up lol. But a petition if it gets alot of people will help just that little bit more.:cool:

[FR Drew]

yeh but only if it was that easy no1 would be building illegal trails, only if i had some goo d land to build on:(

I think often it's more a case that people can't be arsed to go through the proper channels. Certainly, when it's impossible to get any legal trails established then the logical effect is that illegally built ones will spring up. There are a wide number of issues to be looked at before folks will hand over land to you for trailbuilding, especially when they efffectively still own the land and are therefore legally culpable for any injuries that may occur on "their" site.

You'll need to look at risk management including:
-clearly marking technical aspects of the trail so that trail users are warned what they're getting themselves into
-providing B and C lines around the bigger obstacles (You may be fine with a 10 foot drop but there are plenty of riders who are incapable of anything over 1.5 feet)
-preventing damage to habitat and animals native to the area
-proper track design with a view to drainage, erosion etc
-not putting other users of an area (horse riders, bush walkers etc) at risk

See if your local area has a mountain biking club. Try to get on board and see if they can help you to lobby for trails in your area.

Please don't take this as me being picky, but if you speak and communicate with council the same way you do on the forums here, that's probably not helping your case a whole lot. Alot of the time people will make assumptions about how much you respect them or are worthy of their time and support, purely based on how you communicate with them. This includes things like spelling and grammar. If they can see that you've put the effort into researching the issues, providing solutions and making the communication legible and understandable then they're far more likely to be supportive and not write you off as "some dumb pesky kid".

[mtb_slipknot_fan]

yeh i know the worst prob out here is how to deal with the koala hippys and tree huggin walkers even though we may not cut trees down illegal trail builders simply dont give a shit and it gives critics reason more to be against a proposal as there are a fair few illegal trails that im sure walkers are aware of as they are in stupid locations i dont think they are members of this forums though so its not as simple to get them to acknoledge there are people out here that want to go through the right avenues like scuba and his mates
besides this i dont talk to the council and i wouldnt intend to unless i was fully prepared i havnt taken any offence to what youv'e stated because its true

[boofhead254]

yea, i see what u mean we have set up letters to send to the council about finding away around liability and getting signs put up around to warm people of the tracks. If we do perswade to council then from there on it is still going to be a chalange about were to put it so it is out of the from horse riders and so on. Going about flora and fauna will be abit tricky but should really need to do much stuff to to fauna around the area. Just gotta look out for native plants and for animal nest and burrows if there was going to be any building going on.;)

[mtb_slipknot_fan]

the kinda bad thing ive noticed throughout kentlynn trails motorbike rideing and horse riding are illegal yet we have to watch out for them because they choose to cut through trails that arent built for them, i know i wouldnt whinge if i hurt myself on my track doing a stunt i couldnt handle stiff shit i say if the person is stupid enough to do it they should be able to handle the consuequences but sadly people like to whinge and sue. singnage would be good for awareness of stunts like "does this stunt match your abillity" crap like that..... liabillity is the main reason theres prob no chance of getting ns legitamised straight away every council im sure sees it as a dangerous structure and will rip it down which is a bumer because mine is neccesary and very stable

[astroboy]

Scuba et al,

A couple of links and hints that might help:

1. The main line to use in your case is that by having the council provide LEGAL trails in your area that are built to a sustainable level, they can reduce the instance of illegal ones being built (note "reduce the instance". Don't promise illegal trails will disappear). Tell them that riders are more likely to stick to a well designed trail and not head into the bush like walkers and horse riders. Also let them know that a well built trail will not widen - if they need evidence then send them down our way to Canberra and I'll happily give them a tour of Sparrow Hill for you. The trails there are no wider than when the track opened 2-3yrs ago, and it's probably the most ridden XC track in Aust right now with approx 150-200 riders a weekend if the weather is good.

2. Find a trail in your area which has been designed with permission and is built to IMBA standards (if possible). When you find it, take your local officials on a tour, and as you do give them a mini lecture on how the trail applies recognised standards to minimise erosion, unlike crappy trails built by most government officials (funny that). You can try words with officials till the cows come home, but what really works is seeing it in practice.

3. Check out the IMBA website (www.imba.com)for plenty of advocacy resources and tips to help you in your fight. More specifically check out http://www.imba.com/resources/organizing/index.html which is the advocacy toolkit.

4. Get a loan of some spare bikes, and take your officials out on a MTB ride on some of the legal trails (XC would be best here). Let them know that it is a legitimate sport, and hopefully you might even bring one over to the dark side.

5. Check out http://www.mtba.asn.au/general/policies/docs/australianclr2004.pdf which is a summary of law reforms in Aust around liability. You will find that in NSW the land managers are exempt from liability if someone injuries themselves in an 'extreme' recreation activity. The only states lagging are SA and ACT (damn that last one - still fighting to have it changed). This is a good argument against any 'we might get sued' defence.

6. Be aware that advocacy is a case of two steps forward and one step back (and even vice versa at times), so it's not for the impatient. It's a war of attrition - tell them you can offer solutions to their illegal trails and nature conservation problems, and if they are not interested walk away and come back again with the same offer the next time they have to pull down illegal trails. Knocking down and removal of illegal trails is funded out of a limited department budget somewhere so it hurts the council. On the other hand the building of trails out of necessity (in this case because there are no legal ones) is funded by a limitless passion of people who just want to get out and ride (and who are rarely aiming to destroy nature on purpose). By no means do I advocate the building of illegal trails (quite frankly it makes my job alot harder), but I know who I'd put my money on in the long run. It's only a matter of time.

Hope this helps.

Astro
CORC Trails Adocacy Team

[scuba05]

thanks for all the various pieces of advies. I will take them all on board when i go to war with the counsil, well lets hope it dont have 2 get 2 that eh :P. we alredy have about 2-3 pages of petition, i have wirtten 3 letters 2 members of counsil who should(hopefully) take our side as they are sportsmen themselves. Any more advice on how to deal with the counsil would be appreciated, and if you have successfully dealt wif em, PLZ POST and say what you did do. Any info would be much appreciated.

[scratchy]

Yes.
After writing letters. Give it about a week and actually talk to them. Calling them on the phone is probably the easiest. But having an informal chat about the issue will establish a relationship and also get you to find out what their actual concerns are.

[boofhead254]

yea, we were thinking of getting about 4 people and we were going to go down to the counsil and tslk to some of the members about it.

[scuba05]

YEr, we will prob. go down and have a chat with the ralevent parties at the council soon. We are also going to have a chat to a local scout camp, as they have a prime piece of real estate, and plenty of it that we might be able to use a bit of.
Other than that we shall try and get in the councils good books for now, and have a couple more ppl go and write a letter 2 the council n then go ave a chat

[shore_2]

Campbelltown council did not build a motorcross track.
The track at Appin is on private land. MDMCS (macarthur district motorcycle sportsmen) dirt bike club now owns the land and does as they please on it.

A few years ago the land at Appin was going to be sold for development but people in the club put up there own money and bought the land and it has since been a very succesful motorcycle complex.

Have you tried contacting them? Maybe leasing some of there land or getting a track set up for MTB. I believe something like this would be the best option as they can do as they please on there land and have all the equipment to quickly and easily build a track.

I believe the MTB community just needs to pull together form a large group to be affiliated with and put some preassure on. The dirt bikers have this to a degree with the DSMRA (dual sport motor riders association).
Take a lead from the moto guys.

[wizzy]

I can ride from Ruse to Macquarie fields with a bar minimum of riding on sealed roads!

But yeah, if you need any help let me know. My friends and I would be quite willing to help. It might be good for some 20+ year olds to approach the council aswell.

Josh

[scuba05]

thanks, will take it into consideration Both of you.
About having some older people coming down n seein the counsil n stuff, me mate knows heaps of ppl, many of them race DH, one of which is the national champion for hardtails, and they will prob more than likely come down with us.
I see where your going with askin the people out at appin bout buildin sumfin ther, i think i know the spot your talking, bout, and im sure me mates do 2. Il ask em c i they think its good 4 MTB tracks, cause we would promarily be buildin DH and FR stuff. You may have heard of the dvd made by the ppl round here riding at thredbo n stuff, we can easily get in contact with them, and im sure they willl be more than willing to help with the building of the tracks n stuff.
Thanks

[pyley]

who are you and who's your mate...???..call me...0421 730 720...im a glenfielder....id love to help....

p.s those guys your talkin about....thats us i think...

[pyley]

I can ride from Ruse to Macquarie fields with a bar minimum of riding on sealed roads!

Josh

casula to ruse...and beyond....

[wizzy]

Interesting. Will have to look into it a bit further. Sounds like a bit of fun.

Start at Casula, then head to Wollongong.

[Comic Book Guy]

This is my first post on Farkin so lets get the formalities out of the way.

Well I'm the Comic Book Guy and that's because he and me have way too much in common. I live in Ruse, am 41 years old (so that just puts me in the 20+ category that someone mentioned earlier :D ). I try to do at least three rides a week around Peter Meadows Ck, Kentlyn, Smiths Ck, Airds, St Helens Park, Noorumba Reserve and Wedderburn. Other activities include bushwalking (yes, I am a tree hugger) and geocaching (WTF?:confused: ).

For what it's worth here's my 2cents worth.

Scuba05 you are on the right track. I have been thinking along similar lines for some time now. We should have somewhere for people to go and try and kill themselves for fun:D.

I have some thoughts and suggestions for achieving your goal.

1. Stay the distance, there is no way this would happen overnight so if you intend on proceeding be prepared for a sustained effort over a long period of time.

2. Talk to Council. I have dealt with Council before on conservation and reserve management issues and they are very approachable. Approach council as a group with representatives of the various mtb flavours. As to councils feelings on mtb riding I am not sure but they have banned mtb riding on the Old Ford Rd, so that's one hell of a downhill that is now off the ride list. This could play to your advantage as an example of the reduction in facilities as a cause of illegal trails.
But don't stop there, write to Graham West (State) and Pat Farmer (Federal) and see if you could get them involved. Maybe send them a copy of any petition. Trust me there is nothing like a "do it for the kids" news story to attract a politician, it's like flies to crap. And pollies have "slush funds" for their electorates.
Hit the newspapers to see if they can do a story about the lack of facilities and the "horrifying" dangers and "terrible" damage from illegal trail building.
The petition is a great idea. Generate public interest in your cause. It adds weight to your claims of a genuine need for proper trail infrastructure.

3. Location...Location...Location, Greenies, NIMBY and Petrol Pixies.
Someone mentioned the skate park. The skate park is great idea and has what every real estate agent will tell you is essential, that is location...location...location. I know where the Peter Meadows stuff was and it was in a bad location, is it any surprise it was found you could see it very easily from the road. And I hate to be the bringer of bad news but the northshore stuff in Kentlyn is also well known (BTW and fun to ride on:D ).
Finding a location will be a problem, getting access to bush areas will be next to impossible so another location will need to be found.
Don't fight the tree huggers embrace them, get them on side about trying to remove illegal trails and how good it will be for the koalas, bushwalkers and tree huggers in general. Also, never underestimate their political power, connections and advocacy skills. If off-side they can be formidable foes, just ask the people organising the riding trail work in the Royal National Park how much fun some of the organised greenies have been.
NIMBY or Not In My BackYard. The skate park is an ideal example of placement as it is not located close to any houses. So there was not much that could be said about disturbing the neighbours. Local resistance will be a problem if a proposed area is too near housing, this will further constrain prospects for a park development.
Ensure that you clearly differentiate mtb from petrol pixies (aka motorbikes). Motorbikes are a serious pest in the area and many people percieve mtb to be as bad as motorbikes. This link needs to be broken as early as possible and repeated at every oppportunity to ensure a clear differentiation.

4. Public Liability.
As a committee member and walk leader for a bushwalking club I am very aware of the pain in the arse that public liability has become. Luckily the Civil Liabilities Act 2003 has helped out but I can assure you that public liability will be a major issue for council to consider. As mentioned earlier this can be overcome by signage, proper construction and maintenance but this may be a sticking point for council.

5. Random Thoughts.
Have you considered having a meeting of interested people. How about a ride day? It seems to me that some people who have participated in this forum are keen to get involved. Maybe they could be part of the representative group that approaches council.
The advice from FR Drew and Astroboy is right on the money. Read and absorb.
Forming a Macarthur MTB Club would give significant legitimacy to any approach to council but this is a major undertaking that would require a lot of organising and work. Are you or anyone else in a position to do this?
Think about the message you are trying to get across and repeat it at every opportunity.

Wow, look at all this crap I've written. You would think I was a lawyer or something :eek: , thankfully I'm not a lawyer. I hope that my thoughts may have been of some use and haven't put you off. If I think of anything else then I'll post it in this thread.

Cheers,
CBG

P.S. If you are looking for ride info try http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~gammapisigma/mtb.php . It's been a work in progress for some time now so be gentle with me as it is a looooong way from finished.

[julianwisbey]

have you droped one at camden discount cycles yet ?? because ill go down tomorrow and fill it out

[boofhead254]

i think having a big bike meet would be a great idea and start pounding into the councils head that there are alot of riders around campbelltown and close by that would like to have a legal mb track.:D if the council can understand that it is something that lots of people like doing they may consider it such as the skate park in woodbine.:p skaters and bmx riders all have there owne park us mountainbikers shhould have our owne park for us to ride.:cool:

[V.B9]

That sounds like the typical councel always givin ya a hard time. Good luck man hope they give ya a break:)

[boofhead254]

same here:D . i hope it works so then we are able to build sick trails and junk like that, without us worring that it is going to get knocked down byu the council. It really sucks when we have our made tracks ripped down:mad: . if it was me i would have smashed the council for doing that lol:p .

[chris_mtb]

i would love to help so would a few of my mates we might be only 15 but we would help build and shit also were would you wont to build in campbelltown

[hammered]

hey mate

keen 17 year old from MT annan here eager to get a quality track up and running around the campbelltown area.
What ever happened to the kentlyn track, i would say that land is still vacant isnt it ?

But if the potition doesnt work , i would give pyley a ring , best choise i ever made with mountain biking seeing as we go all over the place to ride every weekend

feel free to drop a PM and hook up for a ride

laters

[scuba05]

Look. At the moment, we would be happy to get anywere.
We have found a couple of places we might like.

If the council fails, we shall be approaching Cataract Scout park to try and see if they would like to build a DH track n stuff out at their land. If we were able to get stuff going out there with a DH track n shit, it would be really helpful as there are many people in our district who like a bit of DH, and also there is accomidation out there for people who are coming from elsewhere or sumfin.

If you know of any other places that a DH track and a cupla FR drops could be made in the Macarthur area, please let us know and we mit go ave a geez at them.

Scuba

[chris_mtb]

ok first of all can anyone tell me where kentlyn is/around i live around the area but dunno where any of the trails are

[mtb_slipknot_fan]

ok first of all can anyone tell me where kentlyn is/around i live around the area but dunno where any of the trails are

once u go past the roundabout on georges river road (end of airds) is kentlyn n trails r everywhere just have look theres not much hectic crap out there any more thou there kinda gettin old or destroyed:mad: i to would like to know if the is any mad shit out there i dont know about :cool: cheers.

[boofhead254]

well out there is a 10 foot drop and there is also a harder 8 foot drop thats got a distance to the ramp is about 10 to 11 feet away from the rock. only 2 people i know have done the ten and one belted them self on an old ralei. the ten has a short area to stop urself but.:D

[scuba05]

Gday Again,
I have finally dropped of the petition at camden cycles, so go wriet urself down there now if u want
I have checked on the now closed down Bike Mason in Queen St Campbelltown and they had about 70 names, but i now have the task of retrieving the list:S:S
I have received a letter back from the council saying something about the idea going before a sports commitee or sumfin.
Just thought u might wanna know bout that

Scuba

[mullan2304]

Myself and Sammydog are currently in negotiations with Newcastle council to obtain a legal area and possibly funding to create a trail network in the Lake Maquarie area.

[87seca]

Hey guys, not long joined the site, hell of a read you have there. Am from the campbelltown area (ingleburn).
I really think that you are going down the right path with the council. From what I have seen in other places I have lived, they can be the end of you. Worse thing they can say is no..
But anything I can do to help you guys out just let me know...

[boofhead254]

thanks for the support m8 we need all the help we can get to get the council to let us have a legal mtb track:D

[87seca]

I had a chat to a few people I know today.. and it sounds like it is going to a bit of an up-hill battle... They way it was suggested to me was, like the skatepark at leumeah, if there was somewhere for us to go, council supported, legal etc etc, it would stop almost all the unwanted trail building. Like the skatepark has stoped alot of the crap down queen street.

[mtb_slipknot_fan]

we also need some half decent djs here too but that probably wont happen as theres the jumps at tahmoor:rolleyes: . the skatey dusnt stop me from riding queen st. i usually go for a ride down there then go to the skate park:p i just wish there was some better street stuff to ride down there but its fun all the same:)

[87seca]

I agree, it doesn't stop people from riding down queen st, but think about the amount of people (mostly skaters) that used to be on queen st, but now spend most of their time at the skate park..
You are right.. there is not much street stuff out this way... the security guards at mac square really don't like bikes...

[scuba05]

Gday all again,

Il start of with the bad news, Bike Mason in queen street c'town has closed down.
And the even worse thing is that they had some of my petitions in their shop, with around 70 names on it:mad: so that has realy pissed me off. I would really like them back.
There have been a coupla people at me skool handin round petitions for the same thing, and we hav got around 120 names on that, so so far so good.
I do not know how many people have signed the one over at camden, but would be good if someone could go over and have a look for me:).

Some little setbacks in that, but we should be able to recover the lost ground soon. I am in the process of writing more letters soon to other people, and shall keep you all posted.

Scuba

[87seca]

where in camden? I am out there at least once a week for work

[scuba05]

The bike shop in camden that i am talking about is at 184 argyle st Camden. It is opposite the showground, and around the corner from centrelink:P.
Its a great shop, great people. Would recomend it to anyone

[chris_mtb]

its across the road from subway
i will go check on saturday and sign it myself

[boofhead254]

thanks for going out to look at it i went round the school with scuba today and we got people to sign another petition we got around 100 + people to sign it so we were pretty happy with that and that was from only our year. if we tryed from other years id say abuot 200+ people would sigh it. lots of people love riding lol:D

[chris_mtb]

sweet well i can get an extra name on the camden form i am ridin with a mate tomorrow i will get him to sign it aswel

[87seca]

I am out there on Tuesday, so will sign it then.

[Comic Book Guy]

A bit off topic but I don't know how much longer the northshore stuff may last. Went riding this afternoon with a mate and he told me that last Saturday he rode past the area and two guys in collar and ties with flouro vests were down there checking out the northshore stuff.

Have no idea who they were, will have to wait and see what happens.

CBG

[mtb_slipknot_fan]

A bit off topic but I don't know how much longer the northshore stuff may last. Went riding this afternoon with a mate and he told me that last Saturday he rode past the area and two guys in collar and ties with flouro vests were down there checking out the northshore stuff.

Have no idea who they were, will have to wait and see what happens.

CBG

yeah they most likely will its a saftey hazzard. last time i rode on it it was wobbling everywhere, more like NOTshore then northshore. oh well i guess just as long as they dont demolish dem jumps coz they were alrite.

[scuba05]

thanks for your input. You are entitled to your own input and your own opinions.
I am trying to put more into our local MTB community by trying to get legal trails in our area, so you should be grateful of that. I do indirectly know many of the people that have built the trails and drops throughout Kentlyn.
And another thing, we dont cut trees down. We go around them. So please get sum evidence before you go accusing us please.

[mtb_slipknot_fan]

yeh i think id like to see some evidence to. i'snt against farkin policy to abuse and insult other members try reading the rules before u post http://forums.farkin.net/showthread.php?t=110 peter meadows was still illegal hence it would have been only a matter of time before it would have been destroyed anyway. The council were working in that area they were placing sandstone around pm firetrail to stop the trail bike riders and it wouldnt have been hard to notice green pallets everywhere n yer that northshore is shit that so called skinny was wobbling everywhere and some of it was made out of chipboard are you on drugs because a car could very easily knock it over. aww no dont hurt me woopdy do you cant control who or who cant ride your trail especially when your trails are illegal to begin with and besides a legal trail would most probably be maintained by council, local riders and see thats another issuse that has to be raised with the council aswell. omg liar liar pants on fire grow up im gunna get photos to prove that it is indeed NOTSHORE i had them on my fone before but they wernt of a good quality. and i just read this whole thread again and i only told Chris_mtb how to get out to kentlynn not where any specific trails are i told him to LOOK for himself........ sorry about that rant on peoples but DHdog doesnt seem to have any real evidence we did anything
P.s heaps of people on this site say stuff is bigger then it actually is go have a cry about it i mean serioulsy i know there was no 10ft gap anywhere see me bitching about it

EDIT: we might be 16 with brains of 2 yr olds but what does that make you???? id like to know

[mtb_slipknot_fan]

Isnt thread is meant to be about "Advocating for legal trails in campbelltown" we should try keep it on topic we dont wish to see it being locked. Oh btw how is it all coming along scuba????

[scuba05]

Well, i received another letter, number 2, from the council today.
Summarising the whole letter, the answer from them is no :mad:
Their reasoning is money for construction, planning and insurance, as well as being able to monitor the area for motorbikes etc.
On the other side, they have saifd they will "research the possibility of a mountain bike facility during the development of the Recreational Facilities Needs Analysis for Campbelltown"
All in all, so far they have said F*** off.

Jus keepin u updated

[Comic Book Guy]

Hi all,

Earlier this week Campbelltown Council conducted a Community Consultation meeting in my suburb. As this was an opportunity to speak to the people who actually make the decisions about what gets done I thought it would be an ideal time to have a chat to some of the movers and shakers.

Being the busy-body that I am there where a number of things I wanted to discuss with them and I wasn't going to miss the chance to plug the idea of getting some MTB facilities. I had a chat to the Director for Planning and Environment and he was not aware of any plans (no surprise) to provide some facilities for MTB riders. So he put me onto the person responsible for customer service (don't know why, maybe just a palm off :confused: ) and she undertook to follow this up with the person in charge of recreation facilities. Anyway to cut a long story short I have been told that someone should (which if you are cynical means never :D ) get in touch with me. If I do actually get a call I intend on making a strong case for the need for some sort of mtb facilities.

Apparently Council do several of these consultations in different suburbs a year. So, if you see a letter from council in your mailbox inviting you to express your views at one of these consultations then do it. The more people that express a need for mtb tracks to council at events like this then the better are the chance that something may actually happen.

Just have to wait and see what happens. Hope this helps the cause.

Cheers,
CBG.

[mtb_slipknot_fan]

Gday,

Id definitely be going if there is one for leumeah (ill be spewing if yours was leumeah cause i got no letter) the few dj spots that we have round here ( as basic as they were were still fun to ride) have turned to sh*t basically because theres no rain and the fact there not legal and im not going to waste my time building jumps when theres risk of them being demolished, although i have made a couple attempts at building but they were demolished by little pricks.
Same can be said about the state of the trails out here aswell, all they are are sand traps ( no thanks to moto riders ). All our council seems bothered to do is demolish trails and bushland, if you have ridden through waminda reserve lately you would see that they have cleared alot of the low lying shrubs for fire hazzard reduction. I agree with this as i live near by, but did they have to cover the whole surrounding fire trail with a crapload of loose dirt:mad: i almost ate dirt big time as i had no clue about the loose dirt ( and substandard brake power:p ).
Hopefully we can get something going eventually as i am looking into a new rig for christmas and i want something half decent to ride. Thanks alot CBG about saying something about the need for mtb facillites hopefully i get my turn:) .

Cheers,

Chris

[scuba05]

I havent received any letters about what you are talking about CBG, but if it were to come, i would jump at it pretty quick. Well done for taking a step in the right direction and getting somewhere with the council, as me sofar, i got nada. So congrats on that.
Second, one of my mates from school sent an email off to the council about getting somewhere to ride in kentlyn, and he received an email back, which i found confusing.
"Please be advised that Council will be considering the
use of mountain bikes within the Campbelltown Local Government Area as part
of a vehicle access strategy in the first half of 2007. Should this
strategy support the designation of a mountain bike track it is likely to do
so in terms of the use of natural obstacles and topography. In this regard,
it will not formalise nor allow the construction of ramps, jumps, burs,
obstacle courses etc. The natural environment within Campbelltown is
considered to be challenging enough for mountain bike riding without the
construction of such devices."
The letter itself isnt confusing, its the way that the letter i received contradicted it, by saying we werent able to build anything. I know what id like to believe, and now since we have a connection through to the council (cheers CBG) we may be able to get sum leaverage and build some small jumps or something, but i seriously doubt if we will get to install shores n crap, but it will b worth a try.
So it looks as if we are getting somewhere and gainin legal trails in Ctown
YAY

Scuba

[mtb_slipknot_fan]

Yeh we cant build any unnatural obsticals as they believe that the terrain is challenging enough (and probably to minimise ecological disturbance stupid koalas:p nah koalas are kool:cool: ). I guess itl just be illegal jump building i guess:( . But getting a trail thats half decent to ride out here cant be that bad i guess. BTW scuba, what is the email address that your mate sent the email to cause ill send an email to them aswell.

Cheers,

Chris

[EastsideZero]

hey scuba, one of the fella's that used to work for bike mason/bicycle world works at the new bicycle superstore in C'town. he might be able to help you track down that missing petition.

[mtb_slipknot_fan]

Yeah hes been working there for a bit. I wish he knew where my money went aswell:( :mad: ohwell i just aint going to shop there. Besides, the shop down the road is better.

[chris_mtb]

i no this is grave diggin a bit but has there been any news of council letting the track be built or whats going on scuba

[scuba05]

Gday all,
Sorry about the delay in reposting,
The council replied late last year with a letter which i covered in my last post. Getting back into winter and the cooler part of the year, my enthusiasm is returning to get something going. All the petitions which i had at the bike shops have gone awoll, and will have no chance of recovering them, so we shall start fresh i guess. It seems that at the very start of all council meeteing(at C'town anyway) they ask for any petitions about anything. If we get a few dozen (undestatement hopefully) names, and submit it to the council, along with some letters i am hoping to write, we might get the ball rolling again. One thing in our favour is the addition to the skate park at leumeah. The main reason that they stated for denying the mtb park was for insurance, and because of the danger factor. How a skate park, built EXCLUSIVELY of concrete, is not more dangerous than dirt i do not know.
Speaking of work, I am currently at Toys R Us Ctown in our bike section, and the amount of young kids that are purchasing bikes, especially MTB is going through the roof. Riding is an ever growing sport. Even if the bikes they are buying are Kawasaki Pieces of S*** on special down to $100, they will get a taste of our sport, move on up to a more expensive and higher quality bike, and may have a chance at becoming the next rennie(*cough*cough*)
In my last post, i also quoted a part of an email that was received by my riding mate, that said they would be looking into MTB park in our area in early 07. Considering it is now midish 07, and i havent been able to write anything because of work and school commitments, it is time to act.
If anyone has a chance at getting a couple of names on a petition sheet, drop me a line and i will arrange for a sheet/s to get to you some how. I shall begin writing a letter within the next few days.

Scuba

[kemmis]

Hey i am a mountain biker in the area where is this place you talk about
me and my mates go to leumeah there is bush with some drops (not to big unfortunately) and there are a lot of rock gardens you can get some good riding in but it would be betta if we had a purpose built place to bad its all we got. so if u could tell me where this place is i would like to check it out.


peace out:)