View Full Version : Ghetto Tubeless
Scott
25-05-2003, 06:55 PM
"Tubeless tyre setups are becoming an increasingly common sight on both cross-country and downhill bikes. The benefits they offer include the ability to run lower pressure in your tyres without worrying about pinch flats and better tyre profile, which makes them an obvious choice for downhill riders..."
Check it out here ('http://www.farkin.net/forums/viewlinks.php?mode=jump&link=36').
kalem
26-05-2003, 08:03 AM
yeah i've seen that method around, seems to be the best/cheapest/easiest method around, I'd do it if I wasn't so lazy...
j5ive
26-05-2003, 08:04 AM
Couple of q's..
Whats the quality of the sealant like? Can ya stick nails in there like stans no tubes?
And
Whats the detergant do? Make the sealant set or sumthing?
Seals well, dunno if you can stick nails in there, haven't tried it :)
But if you flat from a thorn / rock whatever, all you have to do is pump it back up again and it's good to go.
The water / detergent helps create the seal when you first pump the tyre up, you have to do the same thing with Stans as well as I understand.
Excellent article!
I am seriously considering going tubeless, its got some good benefits. Though the one major pain in the ass i can see is when you want to change tyres. Of course this may not be all that often, but for people who race and change from their old run of the mill tyres to their racing tyres, it would be a pain. Unless they had two sets of wheels! mmmm...
Turley
26-05-2003, 03:28 PM
Another problem is when the the tire rolls off the rim, sealant goes spraying all over you and your bike and makes one big mess of everything.
Scott
26-05-2003, 03:53 PM
Another problem is when the the tire rolls off the rim, sealant goes spraying all over you and your bike and makes one big mess of everything.
that doesnt happen very often though, i dont even think i've seen it happen before...
perfor8r
26-05-2003, 05:39 PM
I gotta try this!!! Cause there's no way I can afford new wheels right now...
Good stuff mate, feel free to post up any problems / queries you've got :)
Thats crazy guys, I gotta try it sometime, any ideas on cost? for two wheels?
Cost about $25, but that included enough rubber latex to seal a whole heap of tyres.
Well, I tried a wheel with it today, and so far so good. I'll check pressure tomorrow and see what it's like (I have a feeling it may go down a bit overnight).
I might just add, it's a very messy process trying to mix latex + water (imagine trying to pour porridge into a small bottle), and that you're insane if you try it with a floor pump (I didn't, but it was enough of a drama with the compressor!).
oz-freerider
29-05-2003, 07:47 PM
so u rekon to go down to the servo with a mate aye ;)
so u rekon to go down to the servo with a mate aye ;)
Yeah I went with my younger bro, but I didn't actually need his help (I thought I might but turns out I didn't), it seemed to work straight off the bat for me.
Well, after having ridden it on the weekend, I can say two things:
1. it works
2. I can't tell the diff between tubeless and normal setups... feels just the same as far as I'm concerned.
socket, what pressure are you running? try going stupid low for a run or 2 and see if there is much difference. (carefull not to ding your rims if it's really rocky)
bout 30, on the front of a hardtail, on a 2.2 tyre.
try like 18-20, i normaly run 18 in a minion 2.5 on the back of my hardtail so i wanna try tubeless to see if there is much difference, i hope that i'll stop ripping knobs off.
Yeah I might, I was only experimenting on the hardtail cos the DH wheels are a bitch to do anything with (ie Michy tyres on 321s are very hard to get on/off). I can only imagine the difficulty of doing it with the rim strip there as well.
I went sub 20lbs on a 2.35 Maxxis Larsen TT single ply on the back of my HT before I got a flat. Try running lower pressure and you'll notice the bike still rolls well, (much better than a tubed tyre at the same pressure) and hooks up like a dream. I was getting so much traction out of the Larsen at low pressure it was crazy.
I might try it on the DH bike, that's where it really matters.... on the hardtail I generally have em at 50+psi for jumping anyway.
lindsay
02-06-2003, 10:10 PM
Don't run stupid low pressures this means anything under 20psi. The tires will roll of the rim because they dont bead properly thanks to the 20 inch tube sealing the rim.
Can anybody tell me what brand of glue to use and where they got it from? Asked for some modelling latex at a craft store and they looked at me with those blank, dead sales assistent eyes and said What glue?
kalem
18-06-2003, 11:21 AM
I'm pretty sure you can just use tire sealant instead of the latex/water dealo, you should be able to get this at any Auto store...
Man this system rocks!!!!! The trick is getting the right goo combination. I tried this system a couple of months ago with fix-a-flat. Its pick stuff that you can put in ATV tyres etc. It worked for a while, but it I was constantly having to pump up the tyres and I found it didnn't work on some rims. It even blew off on one ride (that was scary!).
After seeing this article I went down to the local art shop and bought 1 kg container of modelling latex. It cost me bout $30, and it will do tonnes of tyres.
I did the tyres a bit over two weeks ago now and they haven't lost any pressure! i immediately felt how much lighter my wheels were and how they accelerated a lot faster! This system is awesome! I have hit some monster rocks which would have absolutly slashed tube systems up a few times (suspension bridge rock garden). You can even run the system in tyres which have a few puncture holes in them. You just have to smear some latex (not watered down) over the holes and it seals it up good and proper.
I haven't had a flat since I put the system in and its insane how much more comfortable the hardtail is now due to lower pressures (22 psi F & 28psi R). Makes you want to go faster, cause you don;t feel as many bumps and it gives you stacks more traction through rocky corners.
Yes it is a messy process to mix the latex and water and yes it could quite possibly be a pain the arse to change tyres. But I reckon the benefits far out weigh these negatives.
One word. Awesome! wish I did it 50 000 slashed tubes and tyres ago.
fastrider gus
23-06-2003, 02:21 PM
i run 10psi in my tyres...
3" nokians!!
MUUUAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
i run 10psi in my tyres...
3" nokians!!
MUUUAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
yeah rolling resistance is great.
fastrider gus
23-06-2003, 03:05 PM
lol yea its farkin hard to cart around.. but it grips on any surface you can think of! it loooooves the wet. pitty i dont..
trobb
21-07-2003, 09:45 PM
i got a pair of tubeless on my bike, unfortunately a few week ends ago i flatted my front one, but it was my first in 6 odd months. + i was running them on really low preasure so i wasent to disapointed
Ride_Guy
22-07-2003, 05:38 AM
i think i will invest in doing a tubless conversion to my wheels
hutchy
20-08-2003, 02:23 PM
I've been running the system for about 12 months and have had almost no problems but I use a slightly different technique for setting it up which I've found to be quicker, easier and cleaner.
I start the same - tube (with core removed) on rim followed by tire on tube/rim. The next step is a little different - I stretch the tube out by pulling the exess tube away from the rim from both sides. This is easiest in a trueing stand or in the bike. I basically go around about three full rotations and stretch at about 5-10cm intervals, stretching harder each rotation. This helps pull the bead of the tire out but mostly just tightens up the gap between the bead and the tube. With this technique I can infalt the tire with a track pump without any latex (don't worry, latex goes in later). Most cases it'll inflate as easily as a regular tube.
By inflating it first, you can ensure the tire seats properly and makes a good seal without getting latex all over yourself and your wheels. Once you're sure the tire is holding air (at about 40psi) you can let the air out and add the latex (followed by the valve core). If your really keen you can inflate it with the valve core in so you can check that the tire has seated properly but I never bother.
From there the tire should inflate with out any mess or leaks (the tire usually stays seated even when the air is released). I use about 120ml of 60:40 latex:water and have no troubles at sub 20 pressures. The key is getting enough latex to set between the bead of the tire and the tube before you go on any hard rides. I usually take it for a few laps round the block with super low pressure (15-20psi) and then leave it at least over night.
The only time I've had trouble with this method is when I forgot to put the valve core in after the latex - I took the pump of at 70psi sos coped some latex in the face!
That little extra tip bout stretching the tube might solve my lastest prob. I've got a fairly narrow velocity rim with a huge arse tioga white tiger on it. And i could'nt get the bugger to seat no matter wat i tried, i'll have to try your method.
I got 2 cents to add to this, tried my first tubeless setup last night. One thing I quickly found out, Specialized Roll X's have little pin prick sized holes in the side walls! You end up with a lovely spray of latex everywhere!
Bugger....
Turn the hole to the bottom and give the tyre a bit of a swish around and it seals up. But wait until you've let it set for the night before you start picking excess latex off the sidewalls. The rest of it sealed up perfectly, hardly even used the spray bottle, just move the leaking area to the bottom, give it a swirl and it seals up nice.
Have to do some more test riding now :)
I have Mavic 521 rims with the little valve (Presta isn't it).
Am I able to set this Ghetto tubeless up with the little valve hole? Is it safe to drill the hole bigger(I'd guess not)?
Yeah it's the presta valve.
My new XC717's that I tried it out with actually had the hole already drilled for car valves, and a little plastic sleve in it to reduce the size if you wanted to use presta. So perhaps it isn't that big a deal? Your call though. I've drilled out other larger rims before.
I've bailed out on the tubeless setup anyway, I could not for the life of me get it to seal. Most of it was fine, it was just these tiny holes in the sidewalls that would never seal. I've got a race on Sunday so it's time to stop mucking around!
If you are using presta valves though, I reckon if you pulled the tyre away from the rim and used your squeeze bottle to squeeze it into the tyre it would work just as well. Make sure you do it under the valve though!
Miko, that could work, but what do mean by putting it in below the valve- do you mean so that it won't run straight down into the valve, and clog it up? Like have the valve at the top of the tyre, and fill in from the bottom?
I just thought too, can you get adapters for compressors for the presta valve?
I just thought too, can you get adapters for compressors for the presta valve?
Yup.
MrPlow
25-05-2004, 12:06 PM
I tried the Ghetto setup last week. It worked ok on my 2.7 HighRoller, but the 2.5 on the back didn't seal. It has heaps of small grooves around the bead and it kept leaking. Has anybody had success with a 2.5 High Roller? (I used some sort of green slime instead of latex though)
spuddy
25-05-2004, 12:38 PM
I just thought too, can you get adapters for compressors for the presta valve?
Yup.
$3 from BSC in Melb. It's like a tiny bit o brass, really. Apparently though (according to womble-who-is-god) your pump/compressor pressure gauge will be all out of whack, so dont trust it and blow things up!
I tried the Ghetto setup last week. It worked ok on my 2.7 HighRoller, but the 2.5 on the back didn't seal. It has heaps of small grooves around the bead and it kept leaking. Has anybody had success with a 2.5 High Roller? (I used some sort of green slime instead of latex though)
How old is the 2.5"? If it's an old tyre that's been taken on and off a whole bunch of times it may have stretched and distorted to the point where it won't seal properly. To answer your question, I and many others have had success with the Ghetto Tubeless system and 2.5" High Rollers, though it always gets harder to get a seal as the tyre gets older.
Lyle,
Nah I mean, normally when you inflate the tyre, you do it with the valve at the bottom, so basically right under the valve you'd have a big pool of goop inside your tyre. When you blow it up the idea is that this goop gets blown up around the tyre and gets mixed up a bit.
If you did it with a presta, I reckon you'd still make your puddle right under the valve, just pull out the sidewall under the valve and squeeze it in, rather than bothering going through the valve. That way when you pop the tyre back on and pump it up, it will stil blow up around the tyre.
Don't know if I'd try an adapter, those presta valves are pretty small, and don't have springs to help seal. You'll get goop everywhere, trust me!
*picks some latex out of his hair* :lol:
I was thinking it might even be nice to get a compatible tyre list started! The ones I tried with definately weren't!
SNYKE
25-05-2004, 03:47 PM
I've heard that tubeless can take off up to 500g per tyre is this true and if not how much lighter do they make your bike. Or does this all just depend on the tube your using before conversion?
Jordy
25-05-2004, 03:49 PM
isnt 200ml too much ? with stans no tubes you only use like 40ml :? im asuming they are basically the same stuff
MrPlow
25-05-2004, 04:38 PM
I tried the Ghetto setup last week. It worked ok on my 2.7 HighRoller, but the 2.5 on the back didn't seal. It has heaps of small grooves around the bead and it kept leaking. Has anybody had success with a 2.5 High Roller? (I used some sort of green slime instead of latex though)
How old is the 2.5"? If it's an old tyre that's been taken on and off a whole bunch of times it may have stretched and distorted to the point where it won't seal properly. To answer your question, I and many others have had success with the Ghetto Tubeless system and 2.5" High Rollers, though it always gets harder to get a seal as the tyre gets older.
The tyre was new. The problem was the heap of small ribs that ran perpendicular to the bead around the tyre. they are around 6mm high, they were effectively a heap of channels for the air to escape from. Do your 2.5's have these little grooves? Maybe it is a compound thing, I think these are 60's? Definently not Slow Reezays though.
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