Mtnx State Champs This Sunday!!

[pyley]

just a reminder that the state mtnx championships will be held this sunday at kurrajong 'HAMBURGER HILL'!

click here for rider briefing
http://www.wsmtb.com/pdf/race/kurrajonggrass0706.pdf

there will also be practice on saturday this will run from 9am till 4pm... cost $20... + $15day licences if not mtba affiliated, this will cover both days riding.

there is a nice pub just 100mtrs walk down the road for any restless parents or avid beer hounds!

i would suggest to everyone to bring thier dualies as this is a rougher track than usually raced, this is also a faster track than usually raced so ARMOUR UP!! our dirt is hard!

see you all this weekend...peace

[skinny666]

i would suggest to everyone to bring thier dualies as this is a rougher track than usually raced, this is also a faster track than usually raced so ARMOUR UP!! our dirt is hard!


I would still say a short travel or hard tail would be better..
Riding the M3 was good when i over cleared the jumps but not so good a doing the super teck rythams sections..
AND YES ARMOUR IS A VERY GOOD OPTION....!!!!!!!!

[wsmtbdhvp]

Entry Form

For the NSW/ACT 2007 Mountain X Championships
at Kurrajong Grass Ski Park, July 29, 2007

First Name
Surname
Street
Suburb State Postcode
Telephone (H) Mobile
E-mail
Date of Birth Gender Male Female
Categories
Please place X next to category
Elite Men Women Expert Men
U19 Men U19 Women Sport Men
U17 Men Masters 1&2 Men Masters 3+ (40 +) Men
U15 Men U13 Men #Age at 31/12/2007
Sponsors
Achievements

Emergency Contact Number & Name

#Age at 31/12/2007 means the age categories are based on the riders age at that date.

[oldbean]

Here are the top threes:
Elite Men:
1st Thomas Hubert
2nd Mitchell Scarr
3rd Tim Dunn

Elite Women:
1st Sarsha Huntington
2nd Joanne Fox
3rd Shannon Jobson

U19 Men:
1st Michael Jobson
2nd Seaton Humphreys
3rd Nathan Lucas

U17 Men:
1st Blake Nielsen
2nd Ryan Hunt
3rd James Horton

U15 Men:
1st Jamie Abbott
2nd Ben Leslie
3rd Matthew Millins

U13 Men:
1st Aiden Vahtrik
2nd Joel Wills
3rd Cameron Ford

Sport Men:
1st Gavin Turner
2nd Matthew Crossley
3rd Matt Walker

Masters Men:
1st Brett Minion
2nd Darryl Ashlin
3rd Brett Thompson

Junior Women:
1st Danielle Beecroft

Download the full PDF below.

Very big thanks to all the people that made it happen:
TSG Brodie
Pylet - Brett Jones and crew
Brett Barnes and Geoff Cartwright
WSMTB - Steve Humphreys
Fordy and Maxine
Kurrajong Grasskarts
The sponsors of the individual classes.
All the people that came and raced
All the Mums, Dads, girlfriends and grandparents that brought their kids to the race and stayed to watch.
I've probably forgotten some, but Thanks! to you all.

To those that stayed away for whatever reason, you missed a great race.

See you at the next round at Goulburn on the 19th of August!

[fleshbone]

Congrats to Goose.3rd is fine,puts you on the board.Heard you had a fast qualify too.:D

[oldbean]

What happened to Expert class? Was it not run or were there just not any takers?

Cheers


No takers for Expert


Looks like small numbers all round.


Yes, numbers were down. Not really sure why. Any ideas?

For there to be only 8 Elite men at the State championships is pretty disappointing. And 4 of those were BMXers and another 1 had flown down from Brisbane!

Seriously, any glaring reasons why numbers were down? What can we do to make the races more attractive to people? Is it the tracks? Is it the entry fees? Is it the organisation?

We want to make the State series bigger and better, but we want to make sure it is what you guys want. What would make the State 4X races better? Post up your suggestions here if you want.

BUT, people are always keen to give suggestions on how things should be done, but when it comes time to putting the effort and time into actually helping, these people are strangely absent. I know everyone is busy with work, etc, but this whole series is based on people giving up their time to help out. This series would not run at all if people didn't put up their hand to help. If you want to help, or if you're a racer and your parents want to help, there's always room for more people. Let us know.

[sammydog]

Are numbers down for the series, or just the champs?

If its just the one race, then it may be a track thing, but if the whole series is down, then its something far more sinister that needs to be addressed. Or at the very least looked into.

[scblack]

A couple ideas I can think of:

Distance. Kurrajong is a long distance out from most of Sydney/NSW, especially for younger riders who rely on others for transport. So numbers would be down on those at Homebush for example.

10metre jump. I missed the weekend due to the flu (but was booked in with missus:)). Even such, I admit the fact of such a big jump made me apprehensive. I was going regardless, but it might have kept some people away, along with talk about the slope and speed. I remember low numbers at Awaba DH champs in 2004, as that track was being talked up so big.

[Mr Sheen]

I havnt been to many races this year thanks to my broken leg , but from what im seeing , most if not all NSW 4x races are only getting very small numbers.

I know that i love the racing and do every 4x i can , but i think many dh riders treat 4x as a bit of a side show , as in its a bit of fun to do when its there but not if its going to take effort.

Maybe we need to try to raise the profile of 4x in aus to try and pull bigger fields. Also knowing that turnouts will be small makes some riders feel its not worth turning up and so , even less riders.

Just my thoughts but i dont have any good ideas how to fix it.

[BOBCATZZ]

The numbers were dissapionting maybe it could be the venue changes and lack of notice and publicity.Now i know i will cop some shit for saying this but maybe we could advertise the series/titles on the bmxa web site as most of the numbers are seeming to be cross overs from this sport and talking to most they dont know any thing about farkin or how to start the sport just an idea.
On the the track side of things those that did turn up had a ball and those older guys saying it was to dangerous need to look at the 9 /10 /12 year olds that rode as they had no probs as most stacks ocured on the of camber grass section.Even though the jumps were big they could all be ridden.A good thing was that this track was ridable on any form of mtb full sussa hrdtail and the down hillers loved it.
Based on previous critisism of our tracks were the jumps were too small and hard to get speed not enough mtb features (drops off camber)this reversed that so who knows.
One thing to look at is we have so many 4x tracks in our state and not one is the same so there has to be one to suit every one .
Lets try and get the word out about the state series and get more involved.

[drewandmel]

Dates also could be a problem for some, I know I didn't go as I'll be spending all next weekend at the DH champs and I couldn't get another pass out from family/house duties. Comes down to priorities I guess.

[donk4]

The 10 m jump was great. My 15 year old had no problems with jumping it every time. He states it is a great four cross track and he has been riding 4x in state and national rounds and thinks its the best one yet.

[Slave]

I talked to some people from Canberra during the week of the event and they were a bit freaked out at the hype about the size of the jumps, and the pics of the helicopter at the club race at the track. It turned them away. Didn't turn me away and from what I can tell I was one of 3 Canberra riders to turn up - which is not a good turn out considering the Canberra MTB club is one of the largest, or the largest MTB club in Aus.

I liked the track, especially the fast flat corner. However I think that dirt jumping and 4x racing are two different sports, and to combine two disiplines will mean that the subset who can do both will have a chance at a good result. I was embarrassed that I wasn't hitting the bigger jumps and I've been racing 4x for ages (have pics racing 4x at Thredbo in the 90's).

I'd say this track was better suited to those who are well versed with 4x and dirt jumping - I guess what I'm saying is that your more novice rider would have struggled and what I am seeing is a lack of newer riders entering the 4x race world. The B-lines were punishing as far lost time goes and like I said it was a bit embarrsing to be taking the B-lines as they were so slow. I was lucky that I was in a class where I didn't feel pressured to hit the big lines, as none of the other riders in the class were hitting those lines.

Just to re-iterate, I enjoyed the track and thought it rode well.

[ja_har]

My thoughts. I missed this race due to the unfortunate fact of baby vs racing, he gets sick and I miss racing despite my best efforts to be there. I made the week before and while the track is fun I can understand others reservations when a track is being talked up with big jumps. The fact was it all could be rolled but not hitting the A lines left people at a massive disadvantage. That would certainly be a factor of why numbers may have been down, another would be that the DH state titles are the following weekend and not everyone can go racing two weeks in a row.

However my thoughts as to lower numbers for the series is that dates and locations have been chopped and changed so much since they announced earlier in the year. Changes for very good reasons, but I for one, pencil in the dates and locations months in advance and then go about making the plans to attend races. When the locations and dates change that process becomes much harder for those of us with lots of commitments.

There is likely a whole heap of other reasons and factors which I'll give some thought too over the coming days.

[Musgrove]

It was a case of too may things and not enough weekends. We decided to go this weekend to State DH spending last Sunday going to Goulburn to get ready for Green Grocers MTNX in a few weekends. We did look at the shots of the track and the big jumps, and this did help decide on the DH weekend.

[pyley]

well the fact that the race calendar is totally full and we have too many events may be a problem, but if you decide to not attend a race due to the hype, then, so be it.

Yes...the track is fast
Yes...there are big A lines
Yes...the track did have advantages for the non gravity conscious

BUT...
Thats what we are trying to do!!!
make a real track. built for riders who can ride and jump and corner and manual and GO LARGE!!!
This is mountain cross! not bmx, not a sunday ride in the park and definately not a waste of time for those who had the balls to come race.

gone are the days of any granny can ride it type tracks, we need inspirational tracks and trails to ride.

and as for A lines being faster and B lines giving a disadvantage... think about that idea and get back to me:)

anyway thanks to all who attended, i had a ball:P

[Daver]

I've already made my points clear to NSWMTB. Without reposting that email, there are basically four main issues.

Firstly, the communication with racers as to what is going on is a big issue. So far there have been two rounds on schedule, with the rest being cancelled, postponed (indefinately?) and not announced. James did a pretty good summary below, so I think this point can end here.

However my thoughts as to lower numbers for the series is that dates and locations have been chopped and changed so much since they announced earlier in the year. Changes for very good reasons, but I for one, pencil in the dates and locations months in advance and then go about making the plans to attend races. When the locations and dates change that process becomes much harder for those of us with lots of commitments.

Secondly, I don't think the races have been that well organised, giving people a pretty bad taste of racing. No one wants to spend hours sitting around waiting for racing to start, or results to be added up. On top of that, there always seems to be bad choices made in regards to finals (ie the combination of categories despite having enough to run a moto/final for each group). It seems that racing could be far better organised, which would impress the participants to no end. And if they're happy, they'll come back. Hence why we're at this stage.

In addition, (and probably the biggest issue here, ) are the tracks. I've already ranted on this before, but in a nutshell, the tracks suck nuts. I understand how hard it is to get land, but when the tracks are as dissapointing as they are, no one is going to be stoked to ride them. Sure, you can go nuts and put in big jumps, but that doesn't make for good racing. Tracks can be changed, and this might bring people back.

Finally, despite what has been said before, the future of 4x or mtnx, is pretty bleak. At the moment its the poorer cousin of DH, and with the new huckflipping contests, it is now third in the chain of gravity events. On a national scale the numbers seem to be diminishing, even through to the global world cup level. Maybe the crystal ball gazers were wrong, it might not be the discipline worth pursueing.

EDIT: Forgot to congratulate the series on having a sponsor. Top work guys. At this rate you'll need it.

Just a thought anyway.

[shaggin_wagon]

one idea to work with is

Try and get rid of all the bitchin and carry on from the parents of so called shit hot bmx riders

for a start, i know that part will always be tough, but something has to be done, or there may be major infights between genres.

A good look at rule books?

Anomalies with start gate procedures, gates moving etc.

As James quoted more parents into helping instead of being bargearsed big mouths.

[mtb.rider.jd]

My main problem being it takes a long time to get to the track at kurrajong and it is no where near public transport like SOPMMX. Also race entry fees are quite high for the amount of travel and how unorganised the races can be, can be, but not allways.

Im just not sure what it is. Most of the locals i ride with find a day hitting the local spots and chilling much more inviting than a day of travelling out to races and paying money to ride.

It might just be the lazy nature of my mates and I not to go to races, but something has to be more attractive about MTNX racing.

[lavis77]

We have been to lots of tracks throughout Australia and the best racing has always been at Tasmania. It isn't a track dominated by hugh jumps or crappy b lines. It has lots of lines and makes for close racing right until the finish line, which keeps the riders wanting to race and the crowds interested. This idea of big jumps and being punished with slow b lines is heading 4X in the wrong direction as there is nothing worse for the crowd and the riders to have the race decided by the 2nd jump which appears to be what is happening at most tracks that we have attended lately.

Don't turn racing into a dirt jump event because instead of attracting riders and spectators you will turn them away.

I have helped at NSW 4X events this year and could count on one hand the number of times a race was decided on the line with most of them decided at least two turns before the finish and I can assure you it isn't interesting for anyone.

The photos of a helicopter at the warm up event and the pre event chatter on farkin did nothing to help either.

[Mr Sheen]

. It isn't a track dominated by hugh jumps or crappy b lines. It has lots of lines and makes for close racing right until the finish line, which keeps the riders wanting to race and the crowds interested. This idea of big jumps and being punished with slow b lines is heading 4X in the wrong direction as there is nothing worse for the crowd and the riders to have the race decided by the 2nd jump which appears to be what is happening at most tracks that we have attended lately.
.

I agree. 4x shouldt be about A or B lines but rather a variety of lines that are equally fast if riden well , but using different strengths allowing riders to pick the line that most suits there riding style so that passing is encouraged right to the finish .

[sammydog]

I always thought the top 2/3rds of the Black Hill trail was pretty bloody good as far as racing went. Lots of lines, faster to jump, but not the end of your race if you didn't.

Racing was always close as well.

[Musgrove]

Track design is an interesting topic as the UCI rules for track requirements for 4X are heading in the opposite direction to what we are doing in Australia with the current trend of the last few tracks built. UCI requires a one line track with tolerance for inside or alternate lines. The NZ worlds track is technically a correct track although very big. The idea of A and B lines is not supported rather if alternate lines are available the resultant of riding either line should be the same, ie the inside line is shorter but slower while the outside line is faster and longer.
It is possible the Stromlo track will require some changes before the world cup in 08 and worlds in 09 to conform to these rules.
The decision in Australia to move from 4X to MTNX was initially based on running motos for qualifying not seeding runs as in 4X. This gave more racing and provided more interest. In NSW we now seem to be moving the tracks further away from the international standard.

Jeff not Max

[thecat]

Ie, the future of 4x or mtnx, is pretty bleak. At the moment its the poorer cousin of DH, and with the new huckflipping contests, it is now third in the chain of gravity events.


At the moment I think it's a bit like track cycling, ie it's great to watch and makes good TV but no one actually rides it......

[Sarsha]

Randal & I are from Brisbane and we are the guys that flew down from Brissy for the race.
To be honest we were not going to come down as we didn't want to risk booking our flights and accommodation just in case the race was cancelled again. This happened to us in Sydney (we had booked for our whole family to come and race and then it was cancelled... so we had to come to Sydney and not race at all.) The same thing with Newcastle, we were about to book and at the last minute thought we had better check if they hadn't cancelled it again.
In terms of where the track is located, I think you have to be happy that you have these tracks everywhere throughout Sydney. In Brisbane we have none, therefor cannot run a MTNX Series. So we are very appreciate to being able to race these NSW Series.

[oldbean]

Thanks everyone for your feedback. It's good to hear what everyone is thinking about it.

Some of the points raised are things we can work on, but other things are a little bit out of our hands. We will be doing our best to overcome the barriers for the remaining rounds of this year as well as for next years series.

I think that the tracks still to be used this year are such that everyone can have good racing on them. The Goulburn track produced great racing last year, without any really massive jumps. And in my opinion, Sydney Olympic Park, despite all the bagging of it, also gives great racing.

Keep posting up your ideas and thoughts, and we'll see what we can do. Otherwise, see you in Goulburn on August 19th!

[BOBCATZZ]

I've already made my points clear to NSWMTB. Without reposting that email, there are basically four main issues.

Firstly, the communication with racers as to what is going on is a big issue. So far there have been two rounds on schedule, with the rest being cancelled, postponed (indefinately?) and not announced. James did a pretty good summary below, so I think this point can end here.



Secondly, I don't think the races have been that well organised, giving people a pretty bad taste of racing. No one wants to spend hours sitting around waiting for racing to start, or results to be added up. On top of that, there always seems to be bad choices made in regards to finals (ie the combination of categories despite having enough to run a moto/final for each group). It seems that racing could be far better organised, which would impress the participants to no end. And if they're happy, they'll come back. Hence why we're at this stage.

In addition, (and probably the biggest issue here, ) are the tracks. I've already ranted on this before, but in a nutshell, the tracks suck nuts. I understand how hard it is to get land, but when the tracks are as dissapointing as they are, no one is going to be stoked to ride them. Sure, you can go nuts and put in big jumps, but that doesn't make for good racing. Tracks can be changed, and this might bring people back.

Finally, despite what has been said before, the future of 4x or mtnx, is pretty bleak. At the moment its the poorer cousin of DH, and with the new huckflipping contests, it is now third in the chain of gravity events. On a national scale the numbers seem to be diminishing, even through to the global world cup level. Maybe the crystal ball gazers were wrong, it might not be the discipline worth pursueing.

Just a thought anyway.Ido agree daver with the on again of again issue it sux and advertising it on the forum does not seem to work as it easly gets buried.
On the track issue maybe u can tell us how to make them better as they all suck.
I dont know about the crystal ball thing 4x seems to work for bmxers as they love banging bars and are use to close racing some dhrs love it some hate it some guys have the best of every thing and dont know how to ride it and some big talkers hate getting shown up by 12yo kids and others do it for a fun challenge i supose thats just how it is .
I guess what we need is constructive critasism and ideas not bagging and i think if any one is prepared to bag then they must have a better ideas or are willing to give up some of there time to help promote /run /organize as this is the only way to keep it going in all forms.
To all those people that helped organise and run kurrajong pat your selves on the back as it was one of the smoothest events in 4x i have seen in a while AND YOU GUYS ARE TRULLEY WHAT MAKES THIS SPORT .
CONGRATS ON A TOP EFFORT

[steel-o]

I agree. 4x shouldt be about A or B lines but rather a variety of lines that are equally fast if riden well , but using different strengths allowing riders to pick the line that most suits there riding style so that passing is encouraged right to the finish .


I totally agree did anyone see any overtaking after the first corner??? it turn into a procession weather you were doing a or b line.

the skill of riding fast is how fast you can get round a corner, huge jumps are for circus stunts for the crowd pleasersif you ask me. If you talk to some of the worlds best riders they are all about keeping you wheels in contact with the ground have youu ever seen Steve Peat in the Air ??? you have most . I don't mind getting air but is a 10m double really necessary is what 4x is all about??/

[BOBCATZZ]

[QUOTE=steel-o;1056035]I agree. 4x shouldt be about A or B lines but rather a variety of lines that are equally fast if riden well , but using different strengths allowing riders to pick the line that most suits there riding style so that passing is encouraged right to the finish .


I totally agree did anyone see any overtaking after the first corner??? it turn into a procession weather you were doing a or b line.

the skill of riding fast is how fast you can get round a corner, huge jumps are for circus stunts for the crowd pleasersif you ask me. If you talk to some of the worlds best riders they are all about keeping you wheels in contact with the ground have youu ever seen Steve Peat in the Air ??? you have most . I don't mind getting air but is a 10m double really necessary is what 4x is all about??/ [/Q its actualy 11.5 m .
The problem i see is a track like homebush sucks aparently the jumps are small with a split straight yet a lot are struggling to jump 3.5 mtrs or pump the rythem so what do you do make all the tracks for ants .Kids rode kurrajong is that because they are some genetic freak or they have 5ooo dollar 4x bikes NO its because they love to ride and see any thing to hard as a challenge so they train practice live on there bikes and have fun.Do you think guys like a teenage Nathen Rennie etc rode that fast corner and big gap of a local track fell of jumped on farkin said it was to hard so racing that track sucked NO they went around that corner and of that drop till they nailed the shit then looked for somthing harder.
My belief is that when ever you build a new track or change an existing track you should add new challenges make it differant and step it up and if that makes it harder than the last track so be it .The only way to produce better riders and make racing more fun is to do this .Also they were not dirt jumps they were mtx jumps there is a difference.

P.S NEXT TRACK WE WANT TO CRACK 15 MTRS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sammydog]

I think what people are saying is that if a race is won or lost completely on jumping ability and nothing else, then whats the point.

If that turns people away from the racing, then it may be something that needs to be addressed.

I agree. 4x shouldt be about A or B lines but rather a variety of lines that are equally fast if riden well , but using different strengths allowing riders to pick the line that most suits there riding style so that passing is encouraged right to the finish .


That is what I think a good track should be like. that doesn't mean the trail should be easy or the jumps small, but a race shouldn't be won or lost on the back of one skill. A lot of new people to the sport won't bother to travel to race, knowing that a 15m jump is unattainable to them and they have no chance of being competative.

[scblack]

[

P.S NEXT TRACK WE WANT TO CRACK 15 MTRS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In that case get used to smaller numbers.;)

This thread has been put up to ask why numbers were low. SEVERAL people have commented on the size of the last jump.

Have jumps by all means, but the EXTREME DUDE nature of this bit has people staying away.

I suppose you can then ignore the constructive criticism at your own peril.:rolleyes:

[BOBCATZZ]

I think what people are saying is that if a race is won or lost completely on jumping ability and nothing else, then whats the point.

If that turns people away from the racing, then it may be something that needs to be addressed.



That is what I think a good track should be like. that doesn't mean the trail should be easy or the jumps small, but a race shouldn't be won or lost on the back of one skill. A lot of new people to the sport won't bother to travel to race, knowing that a 15m jump is unattainable to them and they have no chance of being competative.
As posted earlier the track was restricted to a skinny section of land and putting more corners was not much of an option.

[BOBCATZZ]

In that case get used to smaller numbers.;)

This thread has been put up to ask why numbers were low. SEVERAL people have commented on the size of the last jump.

Have jumps by all means, but the EXTREME DUDE nature of this bit has people staying away.

I suppose you can then ignore the constructive criticism at your own peril.:rolleyes:nah cool i also gave some constructive critasism if i rode it it would have been Blines for me to so next down hill i will arc about the b line through the rock garden or drop that it should be as fast cool.
Do i see you about that

[G-Man]

but in a nutshell, the tracks suck nuts.

Dude - Cmmon ..

You havent even been to Kurrajong Daver - and by the way you would have gone well ..

it's a fast track for those with controle on or above the ground ..

Dont bag it if you havent even ridden it bruva - and you aint been there ,,
as we the Pylet crew have been building and organising the whole time and
no Daver to be seen - to tell you the truth we were all looking for you at this
one as we think you may have gone well on the thing ..

Nuff said - now Come and check it out - and Enjoy the bloody thing :)..

If you dont Enjoy - then cane the track :( - Not b-4 buddy , Cmmon we are
trying to do something in the game at least ,, which is mor than i can say for Some organizations - Cough , splutter "CA" for one - dont blame me i'm still dirty about Foxy and the worlds team :( ....

My cents - however many

G-man outy

P.S. Any hoo - For those that havent seen it all - Picks are going up now in the NSW race
pics forum - Sorry Pyley it took to long for me to load them onto our site - we
spoke about it today ..

[barnesy]

I am going to assume that the comments that the Kurrajong track relied too heavily on the skill of jumping alone are coming from people that haven't ridden the track (the 12 yr olds were jumping the A line 2nd last jump and 13 yr olds jumping the last jump). Why ? because they ride, and they obviously understand the shapes of jumps. I have broken down the basic skills you would have liked to have possessed for this track. Jumping was only one of the many skills...

-first straight skill : acceleration/pedalling RPM, -1/2nd corner skill: off camber cornering /ability to drift, -2nd straight step down skill: staying low on jumps, -2nd straight drop skill : bike balance/immediate & proper use of brakes, -grass off camber dog leg skill : off camber turning/braking/bike balance, -3rd straight triple skill: pre jumping/ability to pump them pop a short jump/manualling/catching down ramps to maintain speed, -3rd straight double skill: linking jumps/assessing jumps/jumping itself (this jump was 6m and felt like 3m), low single to drop skill : pumping and set up for corner (drop landed in turn), 4th descending straight with 2 x small drops skill : bike balance/high speed/braking, 120 right sweeper skill : cornering/braking ('better braking' if you wanted the inside line), 5th straight rhthym skill : pumping/manualling/ or short jump whilst maintaining speed, A/B line double & 'S' berms skills : pedalling to a jump/assessing a jump/ cornering if you took the b-line (this jump was 7m but that didn't seem to bother the 12 yr olds that jumped it all day - last 11m jump skill : bike balance & jumping ( it WAS 9 metres I have the broken leg to prove that this distance was way too short ).

Rule #1 : Don't comment on a track or a feature unless YOU have ridden it.
Rule #2 : Basic skills for MTNX : Gatestart(snap), ability to pedal at high RPM, manualling, pumping, jumping, cornering smooth & fast, good braking. Don't blame your inadequacies on a track. Practice, get the skills, then come back. Hint : if you have had broken bones then you have an excuse for having a high number of posts on farkin, if not you should be riding not typing.

It was only $30 on the weekend, cheapest State Champs I've been to in ages and the prizes were awesome!!
It wasn't publicised enough, that's the biggest problem. Other problem, MTNX racing is in front of everyone and puts your skills on display. If you suck everyone is going to know. So ...get better!!
Also just like to say that the best racing was the junior ranks (U13,15,17,19), we've got some real talent coming up. Hey maybe the 12-13yr olds could start running coaching clinics for some of the farkiners!!

[BOBCATZZ]

Other problem, MTNX racing is in front of everyone and puts your skills on display. If you suck everyone is going to know. So ...get better!!

HAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHAAAAA AAAAAAAA THATS WHAT IM TRYING TO SAY BUT IN A NICER WAY.
MAYBE WE SHOULD CHANGE IT FROM FARKIN FORUMS TO PEAHEART BUT I HAVE A FULL FACTORY BEDROOM BIKE FORUMS.
And word to Gman learn some skills factory Daver .Hey G MAN 15 mtrs with a big ass roller in front to add an extra 6 next track

[scblack]

Other problem, MTNX racing is in front of everyone and puts your skills on display. If you suck everyone is going to know. So ...get better!!

HAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHAAAAA AAAAAAAA THATS WHAT IM TRYING TO SAY BUT IN A NICER WAY.
MAYBE WE SHOULD CHANGE IT FROM FARKIN FORUMS TO PEAHEART BUT I HAVE A FULL FACTORY BEDROOM BIKE FORUMS.
And word to Gman learn some skills factory Daver .
Does anyone wonder why numbers are down for 4X with people who make foolish comments like this running the show?

I missed the race due to illness, but you are calling all people who missed the race a peaheart.

What a way to win friends and influence people.:rolleyes:
You are starting to sound like a 12year old beating his little chest.;)

[BOBCATZZ]

I am going to assume that the comments that the Kurrajong track relied too heavily on the skill of jumping alone are coming from people that haven't ridden the track (the 12 yr olds were jumping the A line 2nd last jump and 13 yr olds jumping the last jump). Why ? because they ride, and they obviously understand the shapes of jumps. I have broken down the basic skills you would have liked to have possessed for this track. Jumping was only one of the many skills...

-first straight skill : acceleration/pedalling RPM, -1/2nd corner skill: off camber cornering /ability to drift, -2nd straight step down skill: staying low on jumps, -2nd straight drop skill : bike balance/immediate & proper use of brakes, -grass off camber dog leg skill : off camber turning/braking/bike balance, -3rd straight triple skill: pre jumping/ability to pump them pop a short jump/manualling/catching down ramps to maintain speed, -3rd straight double skill: linking jumps/assessing jumps/jumping itself (this jump was 6m and felt like 3m), low single to drop skill : pumping and set up for corner (drop landed in turn), 4th descending straight with 2 x small drops skill : bike balance/high speed/braking, 120 right sweeper skill : cornering/braking ('better braking' if you wanted the inside line), 5th straight rhthym skill : pumping/manualling/ or short jump whilst maintaining speed, A/B line double & 'S' berms skills : pedalling to a jump/assessing a jump/ cornering if you took the b-line (this jump was 7m but that didn't seem to bother the 12 yr olds that jumped it all day - last 11m jump skill : bike balance & jumping ( it WAS 9 metres I have the broken leg to prove that this distance was way too short ).

Rule #1 : Don't comment on a track or a feature unless YOU have ridden it.
Rule #2 : Basic skills for MTNX : Gatestart(snap), ability to pedal at high RPM, manualling, pumping, jumping, cornering smooth & fast, good braking. Don't blame your inadequacies on a track. Practice, get the skills, then come back. Hint : if you have had broken bones then you have an excuse for having a high number of posts on farkin, if not you should be riding not typing.

It was only $30 on the weekend, cheapest State Champs I've been to in ages and the prizes were awesome!!
It wasn't publicised enough, that's the biggest problem. Other problem, MTNX racing is in front of everyone and puts your skills on display. If you suck everyone is going to know. So ...get better!!
Also just like to say that the best racing was the junior ranks (U13,15,17,19), we've got some real talent coming up. Hey maybe the 12-13yr olds could start running coaching clinics for some of the farkiners!!

Does anyone wonder why numbers are down for 4X with people who make foolish comments like this running the show?

I missed the race due to illness, but you are calling all people who missed the race a peaheart.

What a way to win friends and influence people.:rolleyes:
You are starting to sound like a 12year old beating his little chest.;)ALL WINGERS THAT IS

[Daver]

OK. If the attitudes of Barnsey and BOBCATZZZ are anything to go by, i think mtnx is dead, for me. I hope that in the future you could take a leaf out of the MV designs book and get some rider feedback before you build another woeful track.

I'm not going to race another event that you guys are involved in, and I will do my best to spread the influence, among friends, team mates and customers. If that's the only way to get the message to you, so be it- we'll vote with our feet and leave.

One less rider.

And soon to be many more...

[Squidly Didly]

Well here's my feedback.

Every race is going to have organisational issues but I won't gripe about this because we're only human. What I will target first though is the tracks. Now this is not a Barnesy vs Jacobs post, BUT a huge problem with the tracks being built of late is that they are designed as "fun" tracks and not "race" tracks. Now think about that for a second.

Olympic Park and Thredbo's MtnX tracks are perfect examples of this fun/race deal, and yes I have ridden/raced both tracks in question.

* Thredbo's track was boring as to ride, but the racing was awesome. You could take every inside line and hit all the jumps, or you could take every berm and still come out the same speed the whole way down the track. It then had the occasional middle line which could be in the form of a smaller berm, or flat turn. No one line was faster than the other as it depended on the riders skills. This kind of track suited a lot of different styles. Yes?

* Olympic Park's track was boring as to race in my opinion BUT I enjoyed riding it. I even made the effort on some non-race weekends to go out and have a play, but I will probably never race on it again.

The point I'm making here is are we building these tracks for people to come ride on the weekends, or are we building them for races because there's a big difference.

Another thing we need to work on is how we market a race. If I were to talk about the State DH Final being held on the scariest race track ever constructed in Australia, this would turn a lot of newcomers off will it not. Luckily DH is strong enough to survive a round without the newbies, but MtnX is far from this level and you guys really need to work on the image of the sport.

An example of this is the photos and videos you share here on Farkin or YouTube. When I saw the huge jumps and the rescue helicopter being flown in for a race with such a small turnout, that turns a beginner rider like me away from your event.

Lets get these 2 things sorted out first as they are the one's contributing to your lack of turnout far more than the other issues raised. Until these things are addressed properly, people like myself are only going to turn up for the occasional punt once or twice a year, if that.

[nicho]

Other problem, MTNX racing is in front of everyone and puts your skills on display. If you suck everyone is going to know. So ...get better!!

HAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHAAAAA AAAAAAAA THATS WHAT IM TRYING TO SAY BUT IN A NICER WAY.
MAYBE WE SHOULD CHANGE IT FROM FARKIN FORUMS TO PEAHEART BUT I HAVE A FULL FACTORY BEDROOM BIKE FORUMS.
And word to Gman learn some skills factory Daver .Hey G MAN 15 mtrs with a big ass roller in front to add an extra 6 next track


Well you guys never cease to impress me or any of my fellow riders.
I think we ve been through this before but like a child we have to go through it again and state how puerile your comments are towards some people.
You start by admiting that you like criticism about the whole thing and yet you still manage to bag pretty much everyone who hasn t come to your local tracks for whatever reason may be.

Don t get me wrong everyone apreciates the fact that you do a huge chunck for the scene and you might be fighting an uphill battle in terms of communication wether it s with mtb or bmx riders.
BUt you have to admit it, a sport trying to spread its wings is nothing with a good cohesive body to govern and organize it.
It seems like you have a lot on your hands and saddly i see a lot of people with a big influence in the industry throwing the towel and getting rid of their responsabilities for the discipline.
unorganized events plus a discipline trying to find its identity plus a governing body that doesn t really know how to organize or promote the sport properly is a lot to deal with.

Now the track, i haven t seen the track nor ridden it but all i can say is all i saw photos of some dudes hucking mounds of dirt on their dh bikes, and a drawing.. (not much indication of what the track is like is it.)
secondly, seeing a chopper for me isn't really offputting to me but frankly promoting the fact that 12 year old kids can do this or that is great, but like a few others said older people and people who actually promote or push the sport or get involved at a national level have responsabilities bike related or not and can t always afford a broken ankle.

Again i'm saying all this acknowledging the fact that you have had strict guidelines in building the track and time frame etc...


I don t pretend to know all nor do i flame people for it (take note on this!)

But i really think that the problem has be dealt from the core out of the whole organization. You need people that you can delegate tasks too (ie:marketing or promotional) it doesn t have to be someone you pay but someone who can actually put himself into peoples' and riders shoe and actually asks themselves the real questions about how to make this sport more popular.

I mean it doesn t take much of a business mind to actually understand what needs to be done to promote an event.
For example flyers at key bike shops around the state ... etc..
Mtx nsw has an account as far as i m aware and let s be realistic here, money is a drive for any organisers no matter how much of an enthusiast you are or how much of the sport you want it to be accessible.
YOu have to seduce riders into the racing side of 4x at the stage taht we are getting now in Australia.We all know how successfull aussie riders are prefessionaly in 4x riding so it shouldn t be hard to drag more riders in.


See i managed to go this far without insulting anyone (pretty amazing isn't)

Finally 4x is a sport that i truely enjoy, racing, training for, i mean heck i go when unsick or weather allowing it, to gate practising all the way out to castle hill once a week.
I would hate to be a witness of the rise and fall of the 4x discipline.

Dave, i'm sorry to see such change in your commitment to 4x. BUt i understand unless certain things change in the sport i m afraid not many people will be attracted by it.

I could go on and on about it but i d rather have a sit down about it rather than e fight.

NIcho

[BOBCATZZ]

As stated earlier you can only work with what you have been given raceing was awsome .
Now DAVER DIRTZ TRAX N TRAILZ build tracks for riders and racers not key board jockys .The thing i cant understant is how 9 10 11 year olds could ride this track yet you cant ! to me it says alot about your skill level.
I dont care if you dont ride its quit obveous you dont do much of it any way.!

[nicho]

As stated earlier you can only work with what you have been given raceing was awsome .
Now DAVER DIRTZ TRAX N TRAILZ build tracks for riders and racers not key board jockys .The thing i cant understant is how 9 10 11 year olds could ride this track yet you cant ! to me it says alot about your skill level.
I dont care if you dont ride its quit obveous you dont do much of it any way.!


this is pathetic...

Have you ever heard of respect. I m gonna let you in on a little something. Dave has been riding for quite a while and rides regularly, for example he has been building and helping hunter club with their new dh track and riding it aswell. He is the most fervent to any type of racing guy i met and will spend a lot of his time on bikes and taking care of his bikes.
Now dave and i ride together and i can assure you that he will easily keep up if not on our tail in the tighest sections of dh tracks.
Bobcatz i would never insult personnaly someone i don t know as i have respect for other human beings. I would never attack you physical appearance nor your riding skills. I don t care how much you ride or how much you weigh or how well you go at racers in the end none of us will have world recognition not me nor dave and certainly none of you guys.

I would seriously settle down on the insults and pull my head in and actually put effort that you so generously put into insulting other fellow riders in 4x events.


nicho

[BOBCATZZ]

this is pathetic...

nicho
maybe u should read the thread from the start

[BOBCATZZ]

Easily offended

[nicho]

I get offended when people attack my friends as much as you are when people attack barnesy s track.

I know that dave s comment can come across as harsh but i believe that it is hard to actually speak your mind on a track or organization without sound ing insulting.

But surely there is other smarter ways to respond to it.

I admire how well Steve Humphreys handles the situation and is always respectfull and will always lend an ear to chronic whingers.

nicho

[BOBCATZZ]

He admits that he trys to piss people of .So all i want to know what all these people want in a 4x track as know one seems to know more like down hill /drops /off camber it there as for uci dont even start me .We will keep building people will keep not liking somthing thats the way it is but some people will bagg before its even designed then find excuses later thats the way it works no one gives it a go so there its like me saying nicholi bikes are shit every time you posted somthing about them how would i know i have never had or riden one .

[barnesy]

O.K. since there is so much positivity in the air, here's what gives me the shits...
.
People bagging stuff when they haven't ridden it, haven't picked up a shovel, haven't helped run the event, haven't completed the risk assessment document, haven't done the negotiations with land owners, haven't forked out their own money to get it done, haven't been the first to hit something to see if it's safe, haven't spend day after day of your own time up at 5am to try and get a track finished on a deadline.
.
Last race at SOPA a bunch of people gained a heap of respect from me for putting their hands and time in to match their commentary. Nicho, Maxine, Pylet boys, etc. Of course there are also the usual suspects who pour their lives into trying to get this discipline and events up and running, they always have my respect.
.
As for stopping racing because of opinions on a forum? We'll if that's all it took you never loved racing in the first place. I love riding, I love racing and I love riding new tracks. There are now 3 x MTNX tracks in Sydney plus Goulburn, Geoff and I designed and built them ALL (58hrs is the longest time we took to actually build any of them - SOPA). Thats ALL the leg work, design work, labour, machine work, computer work and all the criticism. For stuff all. In fact our bikes are worth more than what we have ever received for building all of these tracks together.
.
But whatever, I have finally learnt to not give a shit about this forum, I saw some awesome young riders having an awesome time on a new track on the weekend. I'm going to design a new track (in fact it's done) and Geoff and I will build another one.

P.S. If you guys haven't worked it out yet, BOBCATZZ loves a blue and it's sooo easy to get a bite on this forum.

[G-Man]

I get offended when people attack my friends as much as you are when people attack barnesy s track.

I know that dave s comment can come across as harsh but i believe that it is hard to actually speak your mind on a track or organization without sound ing insulting.

But surely there is other smarter ways to respond to it.

I admire how well Steve Humphreys handles the situation and is always respectfull and will always lend an ear to chronic whingers.

nicho

Whooooa there fellas ..

Cmon guys - Claws in for a minute ..

1stly Nicho , Squidly & Daver love yas all heeps :) , pics are up now have a squiz .....

http://www.putfile.com/gman073/images/132303

2ndly
what i believe the mention and all the heat is about ( or at least my post it was )
was the statement - "" Daver said - the tracks suck nuts "" and that is what i was
having a little nudge , nudge about and that's the brass tax ..
I got told ( via forum granted ) by Daver ( yes we know eachother and have for some time weezzz cool ) that the tracks sucked nuts - and i believe that would encompas our new track as there were no specifics ..
This imeadietly prompted me to respond with the tipycal - You havent even been there
blaber and so on ..

3rdly
Daver - Dont stop riding the 4X over this little crap on we are having - this is a forum
and i dont take or make anything personal- just use it as a voice ..
I for one enjoy waching you pin down a 4X or DH track on any given day - we call ya Mr Smooth bro ..

4thly- if thats a word
Squidly my bruva - We didnp't build this one to ride for fun - it is a race track - not for the faint of heart however in saying that, it's all about self controle as we had a 13yo girl on the track all day pinning and on the other end of the scale we had Mr Humphries himself racing on the day and he was as well pinning - it was great to see - check the pics ..

Any hoo - My appolagies ( sp ) for any un needed slander it may have driven ,, lets all
just keep on racin - hickin what ever as long as your having a ball ..

Good night folks ..

G-man - Attempting a voice of reason - outy :)

[Squidly Didly]

But whatever, I have finally learnt to not give a shit about this forum, I saw some awesome young riders having an awesome time on a new track on the weekend. I'm going to design a new track (in fact it's done) and Geoff and I will build another one.
Barnesy. Mate. Come on. Not everyone on this forum dislikes what you do, but to "not give a shit" about this forum as a whole is a childish generalisation. It would be like me saying all your tracks are shit when they're not. You've read my opinion on racing at Olympic Park but I personally loved the look of Ebenezer when I went out to photograph it for the 1st time. If it wasn't for work commitments, you would've found me racing this years State round there.

Anyway please don't go generalising everyone on this forum the way you just did. If you didn't like the way a certain individual was generalising their opinion on all your tracks, there's no reason for you to lower yourself to their level.

[Squidly Didly]

Squidly my bruva - We didnp't build this one to ride for fun - it is a race track - not for the faint of heart however in saying that, it's all about self controle as we had a 13yo girl on the track all day pinning and on the other end of the scale we had Mr Humphries himself racing on the day and he was as well pinning - it was great to see - check the pics ..
Granted, but the problem is getting that message conveyed to the public who haven't been there yet (key word).
Whether I'm right or wrong about the track or the way it was marketed, 47 riders (or whatever it was) is not what I'd consider great for a State Championship race and this needs to be addressed.

You know I love you G-Man (in a non-sexual kinda way of course) and I'll do you a deal. You work on Bobcatzz temper, and I'll work on Daver's. ;)

[old4dy]

my hasnt this thread sparked up.

With regards to hamburger Hill

What an amazing track, all these negatives to set straight.

For a start I may be a newbie to this amazing pasttime/sport.

My opinion that Kurrajong will be one of the best tracks in NSW once it gets past this stage.

I was fortunate enough to go and do some slave work with Pylet crew prior to the State

round, the good thing being a slave for a while is you get to ride something FIRST before

anybody else, you know what i found this track BLOODY AMAZING, i may have been on the

brakes a bit, but i got to the bottom unscathed.

My sons raced the state round and had a ball they and myself cant wait for the next round

at Hamberger Hill, so maybe the bitchin may be over by then.

As others have said this track is very user friendly that is if you go about it in the right

frame of mind, go too mad and you will be punished big time.

If the young pinners can race and enjoy this track whats going on with the older set are

they still wrapped up in cotton wool or something?

A few photos of helicopters and big lips and people are burying their heads in the sand.

[scblack]

nah cool i also gave some constructive critasism if i rode it it would have been Blines for me to so next down hill i will arc about the b line through the rock garden or drop that it should be as fast cool.
Do i see you about that
I have now read this several times and still have no idea what it is you are saying. Is there a point here?:rolleyes:


ALL WINGERS THAT IS How did you know I played WINGER in union? You must be oh-so smart to have picked that up.....:rolleyes:


maybe u should read the thread from the start Maybe you need to try that again yourself.

You really have simply come across as a fool here;). Nicho has called you peurile, Daver who has raced many MTNX races does not want a bar of you anymore, Squid acknowledges you need help, G-man apologises for un-needed slander.

You have obviously impressed people in here.:rolleyes:


MAYBE WE SHOULD CHANGE IT FROM FARKIN FORUMS TO PEAHEARTAllow me to make the same reply:
Maybe we should change it from BOBCATZZ to PEABRAIN.

[dirtdemon]

Quote(Seriously, any glaring reasons why numbers were down? What can we do to make the races more attractive to people? Is it the tracks? Is it the entry fees? Is it the organisation)

Note: - Steve asked what are the problems!

Quote(People bagging stuff when they haven't ridden it, haven't picked up a shovel, haven't helped run the event, haven't completed the risk assessment document, haven't done the negotiations with land owners, haven't forked out their own money to get it done, haven't been the first to hit something to see if it's safe, haven't spend day after day of your own time up at 5am to try and get a track finished on a deadline.)

Note: - Again Steve asked and people have put forward their suggestions!

Quote (4x shouldt be about A or B lines but rather a variety of lines that are equally fast if riden well , but using different strengths allowing riders to pick the line that most suits there riding style so that passing is encouraged right to the finish .)

Note: - People were doing a really good job explaining there reasons why! And you only need to look at the photos to see that the track wasn't consistantly producing close racing.

Things will never improve if constructive criticism can't be heard and accepted. Don't ask for suggestions if you don't want to listen, but do so at the sports peril.

[wsmtbdhvp]

Please I have kept out of this, James asked not me.

The numbers are hard to get but the ones I have are
2004-05 Nationals, Smallest Armadale 34 Largest Eildon 104, Average 63
2005-06 Nationals Smallest ? Largest SOPA 210, Average ?
2006 NSW/ACT Smallest Ebenezer 45 Largest SOPMMX 92, Average 64
2006-07 Nationals Smallest Black Hill 62 Largest Stromlo159, Average 79
2007 NSW/ACT so far Smallest Ebenezer 48 Largest Stromlo 54 Average 51

So looking at the figurers the 51 Kurrajong is average and respectable.

Only big time advertising gets the numbers up at this stage of the sports development

[smj_031]

For riders to get better they need tracks like kurrajong. That track was crazy, just always had to be thinking, had to be smooth, had to jump and manual, had to corner well, which I can't so I'm so wonderful at, but I had to learn.
In a sport that combines so many disiplines, where theres so many different skills, lines, techniques ect ect that come into play tracks need to be 'out there' and exciting and a bit different.
As much as it scared me half to death, and crashing didn't help at all, I thought it was an awesome track to ride, and congrats to the guys who spent the time building it, becasue if they didn't we wouldnt have had a state titles!

The only thing that wasn't so cool was the few 'misunderstandings' that happened with the different classes and staging, but Steve did a great job at calming a few dusgruntled parents and keeping everything going.

MtnX has the potential to be really big, and being a sport that supports riders from heaps of different back grounds, DH, BMX, XC, dirt jumping, free riding ect. it needs to be advertised to them all in mediums that will attract all of those riders.

I'm sure everyone will be at olympic park this weekend, at another fun and exciting track. See yas all there.
Shannon J. :)