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View Full Version : Steel is real. Which new HT?

johnny_boy
02-10-2007, 06:05 PM
Hey farkers,

Currently in the market for a new XC frame. I've been on a Redline Monocog steel SS hardtail for the last bout 2 yrs, and it has been awesome. However, I've been doing some longer/hillier rides, and plan on hitting the Otway Odyssey early next year, so I need gears.

I'm looking for frame only, as I have sufficient parts already to build something up. Requirements are:

- Normal dropouts
- Nice steel
- Light, not overbuilt
- Budget >$1000

At this stage, I'm looking at:

- Voodoo Bizango
- Salsa Ala Carte
- Jamis Dragon

Have I missed anything with my requirements? Anyone riding any of the above, or recommendations. Haven't been able to find firm pricing for the Voodoo or Jamis either, so if you know, post it up!

Cheers
n plus one
02-10-2007, 06:15 PM
You can pick up Jamis Dragon frames (Reynolds 853)on ebayUS cheap if you're prepared to wear the risk.

Ala Cartes are about a grand retail.

BSC had 30% off Voodoo frames when I bough my Wazoo, I think about $1400 for the higher end frame from my blurred memory.

What about a Handjob?(Cove), everybody likes Handjobs....
k3n!f
02-10-2007, 06:15 PM
Cove Handjob. Say no more :)
n plus one
02-10-2007, 06:16 PM
Cove Handjob. Say no more :)

Snap!!! Same time n' all :D
DW-1
02-10-2007, 07:23 PM
Ala Cartes are about a grand retail.

close enough...

$895

and... it includes the rigid cro-mo fork for that totally retro feel.

True Temper Ox Platinum tubset...

Elvis.
Cruz
02-10-2007, 07:47 PM
The On-One Inbred and also the 456 for longer forks, both around the $600 mark.

The DMR Switchback around the $500 price.

The Zion from Jenson for under $500 landed here. Same geometry/maker as the Jamis Dragon it seems.
jaseh
02-10-2007, 08:03 PM
Jamis will be bringing in a limited number of the 08 Dragon Team frames. there is a picture of it in the 08 catalog that can be downloaded here. (http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/)
Christo
02-10-2007, 08:05 PM
Mmmmmm, Salsa...
Woodsie
02-10-2007, 08:07 PM
Cotic soul or soda. http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/soda.html

I've no personal experience, but have an order in for the BFe freeride frame.
Some Guy
02-10-2007, 09:09 PM
The On-One Inbred and also the 456 for longer forks, both around the $600 mark.

And around what, 2.2-2.4kg? There great frames for a street/commuter bike, but a little heavy for a real nice XC bike. The Jamis frames are nice, but again quite heavy at around 1.9kg. I believe the Salsa is a similar weight, not sure about the Voodoo.

I discovered the realness of steel about a year ago after riding a steel bike for a little while. Unfortunately being a weight weenie the whole heavy thing didn't sit to well. Which is why I turned to Warwick at Thylacine Cycles and got an Ether. 1538gr including seatpost clamp, and with some developments since it was made they could get even lighter. It's not cheap, but a good steel frame will last you a long, long time. It's darn quick too.
jaseh
02-10-2007, 09:25 PM
The Zion from Jenson for under $500 landed here. Same geometry/maker as the Jamis Dragon it seems.
They might look similar but, the Zion is made from 4130 cromo and the Jamis is Reynold 853. You would find that they would ride different. The 853 would be a lot stiffer than the 4130.
johnny_boy
02-10-2007, 09:57 PM
The On-One Inbred and also the 456 for longer forks, both around the $600 mark.

The DMR Switchback around the $500 price.

The Zion from Jenson for under $500 landed here. Same geometry/maker as the Jamis Dragon it seems.

Looked at the On-One's, and would really rather something nicer than 4130, mainly for the reasons below... They had an 853 on their site, but with sliding dropouts. 456 is too chunky. Ditto with the DMR, plus I believe they're still a little shorter than a dedicated XC frame, which is what I'm after.

And around what, 2.2-2.4kg? There great frames for a street/commuter bike, but a little heavy for a real nice XC bike. The Jamis frames are nice, but again quite heavy at around 1.9kg. I believe the Salsa is a similar weight, not sure about the Voodoo.

I discovered the realness of steel about a year ago after riding a steel bike for a little while. Unfortunately being a weight weenie the whole heavy thing didn't sit to well. Which is why I turned to Warwick at Thylacine Cycles and got an Ether. 1538gr including seatpost clamp, and with some developments since it was made they could get even lighter. It's not cheap, but a good steel frame will last you a long, long time. It's darn quick too.

Mmm, Thylacine would be cool, and without knowing exactly what I'd be up for, I don't think my budget would stretch - If you have to ask, you can't afford it ey?

Not 100%, but I've seen figures around 4lb (1.8-9kg) for the Voodoo. I think the Salsa is a little heavier.

Had a look at the handjob - Purdy colours + columbus tubing.. Could be a go-er!
Some Guy
02-10-2007, 10:05 PM
Mmm, Thylacine would be cool, and without knowing exactly what I'd be up for, I don't think my budget would stretch - If you have to ask, you can't afford it ey?

They are more expensive than the other options, yeah. You definitely get your moneys worth with the crazy light weight and fully custom geometry, it's just a question of whether you want to spend that much on a bike frame. If you do feel like spending a bit more though, throw him an email. He doesn't bite :-).

Looked at the On-One's, and would really rather something nicer than 4130, mainly for the reasons below... They had an 853 on their site, but with sliding dropouts. 456 is too chunky. Ditto with the DMR, plus I believe they're still a little shorter than a dedicated XC frame, which is what I'm after.

Yeah, steer away from cheaper frames with the low end tubing. Heavy, don't ride as nice, and in the case of the On-Ones not put together that well either. I've seen several break - although they've all been fixed :-).
alchemist
03-10-2007, 06:36 AM
Mmm, Thylacine would be cool, and without knowing exactly what I'd be up for, I don't think my budget would stretch - If you have to ask, you can't afford it ey?

You'd get 3, probably 4, possibly 5 Ala Carte frames for the price of 1 Thylacine.
DaGonz
03-10-2007, 06:48 AM
You'd get 3, probably 4, possibly 5 Ala Carte frames for the price of 1 Thylacine.

you'd also go close to getting a ti frame from cove(?)/titus/lightspeed

Cheers
Gonz
alpinestar12
03-10-2007, 06:48 AM
Whats about a Rocky Mountain Blizzard? There is a frame for sale on here, I wants it!
GrubNut
03-10-2007, 09:10 AM
Check out the voodoo wanga. Impressive steel frame with paragon dropouts.
MrCove
03-10-2007, 09:56 AM
the new Cove HJ (as i prefer to call it!!) is real sweet, columbus steel, suitable for forks 100-130mm, bottle opener rear drop out!!!

unfortunately not got any in stock at the mo. will be getting some though

if you are in the market for a Ti 17" frame give me a shout, killer deal....... plus you can demo ride one the same to see how it feels

!!!!!WARNING!!!!!!
once you have riden Ti, nothing else counts!!!
johnny_boy
03-10-2007, 10:48 AM
Some Guy: Not doubting the Thylacine's are worth it, just not within my means at the moment - Not unless someone starts paying me to be a uni student...

I've had a look at the Wanga, and the option of gears/ss is cool, but would prefer to shave the weight and just stick with reg. dropouts - Plus the Bizango is 853 steel.

Mr.Cove: With the ti - the uni student/funds thing applies again. 17" would be too small anyway, I'm 6'2". Cheers for the offer though! If you remember, give me a heads up when the new HJ's get in.
MrCove
03-10-2007, 11:10 AM
will do

A
alchemist
03-10-2007, 12:18 PM
if you are in the market for a Ti 17" frame give me a shout, killer deal....... plus you can demo ride one the same to see how it feels!!

Hmm it sounds about the right size...

Alchemist - not really interested.
johnny_boy
03-10-2007, 12:19 PM
Cotic soul or soda. http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/soda.html

I've no personal experience, but have an order in for the BFe freeride frame.

Just had a look at the Soul.. Damn, looks hella nice! Black with green decals would be hot. Reynolds 853, and pricing seems reasonable. Check out their commuter/road frame too - Front disc mount on the front right hand side of the fork!

I'd be tipping no, but does anyone do these in Aus, or would it be an internet jobby?

The Voodoo Bizango and Cove HJ are hot favorites at the moment - It'll probably come down to price...
miko
03-10-2007, 01:06 PM
What is the price on a Cove?
Woodsie
03-10-2007, 03:37 PM
Just had a look at the Soul.. Damn, looks hella nice! Black with green decals would be hot. Reynolds 853, and pricing seems reasonable. Check out their commuter/road frame too - Front disc mount on the front right hand side of the fork!

I'd be tipping no, but does anyone do these in Aus, or would it be an internet jobby?

The Voodoo Bizango and Cove HJ are hot favorites at the moment - It'll probably come down to price...

I think it is all internet. They are still pretty small. Though their team of 1 competitive sponsored rider is an Aussie Chick. So ya gotta give a Pommie company points for not only sponsoring an Aussie, but a girl at that. :D
Mr Pants
03-10-2007, 04:12 PM
Yeah she's Aussie but she has a distinct pommie accent and has lived there for quite a while.

Still, any chick who's fast and can ride 24 hours and the Trans Alp we'll happily claim.:D

Back to bikes and I vote for the Thylacine!:cool:
triples
06-10-2007, 03:38 PM
Soma Groove FTW
Dr. Nob
06-10-2007, 04:26 PM
Voodoo Bizango.







No more needs to be said.
dunk
06-10-2007, 07:24 PM
I've had an On-One Inbred, and currently have a Salsa Ala Carte, as well as a Zion. Of the three I think the Salsa is the nicest. The On-One was a bit long for me, but I did like it. As for the Zion, it's a 29'er so I won't judge it geometry wise against the other two, but it is actually pretty nice to ride, a big surprise for such a cheap frameset.
Hud
06-10-2007, 08:55 PM
I love my ala carte.
Nothing else needs to be said.
Dirt_Jump_Monkee
07-10-2007, 06:29 AM
hey jhonny_boy i have a voodoo bizango 05 in really good condition but its a 17er i could sell it to you if you wanted just pm me
cbjaust
07-10-2007, 10:48 AM
hey jhonny_boy i have a voodoo bizango 05 in really good condition but its a 17er i could sell it to you if you wanted just pm me

Please ignore him ^^^. the aforementioned frame is MINE, not his and a) is not for sale, b) is too small for you and c) MODS, don't ban him, he's my son... Oh alright give him a 48 hour holiday as I'm sure I'd find out that his sig. would be against the rules (If I read them).

You see, my 19" 1997 Hoodoo frame that I bought while I was living OS was collected by a car in South Yarra while I was riding it to work one day... end result is I bought my the Bizango :) but I ended up not measuring correctly DOH! :( and ordered a 17". The only upside to this is that D_J_M^^^ needs a new bike and a 17" frame is just about perfect for him.

And J_B, I'm also about 6'2" and yes, a 17", while doable, is really not optimum AT ALL.

So for the OP, my BIAS for Voodoo says get the Bizango. How could you go wrong; Reynolds 853, quality build, quality finish, the :cool: of Voodoo, Joe Murray....

you can tell I Like Voodoo :)

go for it, you won't regret it!

Cheers
johnny_boy
07-10-2007, 04:40 PM
Thanks cbjaust... I'm sensing a wee someone wants a dirt jump frame, not dads 'dorky' XC frame - Don't worry, he'll understand one day. Yea, a 17" would be too small, I'll be getting a 19.

The Bizango is looking good - Went into BSC the other day and am getting a good price on one. Ill post some pics when it's built, probably after exams as I don't need the distraction beforehand!

Cheers everyone for the input.
big dan
07-10-2007, 08:02 PM
What is the price on a Cove?

about $1150 for a handjob!
Some Guy
07-10-2007, 09:10 PM
Damn, that's an expensive handjob! :P.
cbjaust
07-10-2007, 10:35 PM
Thanks cbjaust... I'm sensing a wee someone wants a dirt jump frame, not dads 'dorky' XC frame - Don't worry, he'll understand one day. Yea, a 17" would be too small, I'll be getting a 19.

The Bizango is looking good - Went into BSC the other day and am getting a good price on one. Ill post some pics when it's built, probably after exams as I don't need the distraction beforehand!

Cheers everyone for the input.

Yeah, while the Bizango in not designed for a 130mm fork and is constructed differently (lighter, faster, better :)) than a 'dirtjump' frame it will do the job just fine - he's not fully grown yet and as such I don't expect to see any issues; and if there is, its Cro-Mo and thus repairable.

When I was a wee laddy, I lived on dirt roads and rode a racer and used to jump it ALL the time... never a problem... and that was on 700x20C rims!! (although they did seem to go out of true *a bit* :))

And so I'm going to have to get me a 19" frame too if I want to get him of the jumps and into the mountains over the summer.
Carlin
08-10-2007, 09:15 AM
Yeah, while the Bizango in not designed for a 130mm fork and is constructed differently (lighter, faster, better :)) than a 'dirtjump' frame it will do the job just fine - he's not fully grown yet and as such I don't expect to see any issues; and if there is, its Cro-Mo and thus repairable.

Don't underestimate the punishment that a kid will put a frame through learning to dirtjump, even if they are light. This has been an off-topic public service announcement.
johnny_boy
08-10-2007, 10:06 AM
Damn, that's an expensive handjob! :P.

Don't ask what a Hummer will cost you then!


It's certainly a lot of flowers and chocolates.
cbjaust
08-10-2007, 02:52 PM
Don't underestimate the punishment that a kid will put a frame through learning to dirtjump, even if they are light. This has been an off-topic public service announcement.

Well until he can AFFORD to buy a bike of his own choosing he's going to have to compromise.

And MEH if it breaks because it wasn't up to the job so be it, but...

OTOH, if it breaks through mis-treatment, thats entirely different.
Refreshinglygood
08-10-2007, 03:07 PM
Phantom cycles $495, there is a more expensive version as well


The Breath has the same geometry and many of the same features as the more expensive Life, but is made from Japanese chromoly tubing. A good choice for the enthusiast level rider.
All frames are optimized for 100mm suspension forks and are disc specific. 16", 18" and 20" frame sizes are available.
FEATURES:
Custom CNC machined head tube.
Ritchey dropoutsHead / Down tube gusset
Laser cut stainless steal head badge
International standard disc compatible
UK specific Mud clearance
Full length cable routing
Faced head tube and bottom bracket shell
Forward facing seat tube slot.
TECHNICAL INFO Color - Light GreyWeight - 4.6lbs (18 inch)Head angle -71 degSeat angle - 73 degChainstay - 425mmTop-tube length16 inch- 23" / 584mm18 inch - 23.5" / 597mm20 inch - 24" / 609mmHead-tube length16 inch - 3.75" / 95mm18 inch - 4.125" / 105mm20 inch - 4.5" / 115mm
Emmett
08-10-2007, 04:16 PM
I know this is a little out of your price range but i thought i'd drop it in anyway.

http://www.ifbikes.com/frames2/steeldeluxe.shtml

I'd still give my left ball for a Yo Eddy in the right size and 1 1/8th headtube...
DaGonz
08-10-2007, 05:02 PM
I'd still give my left ball for a Yo Eddy in the right size and 1 1/8th headtube...

Ha! Fat Chance!!

(hehe I made a joke ;)

Cheers
Gonz
Cruz
08-10-2007, 08:19 PM
I'd still give my left ball for a Yo Eddy in the right size and 1 1/8th headtube...

I think I gave my left ball for my Seven Sola steel frame from the USA. Landed it here for less than 1G though, so it can be worth looking around on the web.
climbo
09-10-2007, 08:14 PM
not that I've had the others but my Ala Carte has been going strong for about 7 years now. Not had one problem with it and it rides really nicely, the geometry is just right for me as a fairly aggressive XC guy. Everyone is always amazed at how good it looks and when they ride it they are impressed by the handling and feel of the bike.
johnny_boy
07-11-2007, 07:13 PM
Well, I got the Bizango! Amazing looking frame, nice and light, and the bright orange is HOT. Just need to get a steerer extension as the head tube is longer than the old bike, and it doesn't quite reach. Damn. Ill post a pic of her when she's complete...

I don't spose anyone would like to swap a pair of 2006 Reba teams with a 188mm steerer for a pair with a <190mm?
Bodin
07-11-2007, 07:50 PM
I don't spose anyone would like to swap a pair of 2006 Reba teams with a 188mm steerer for a pair with a <190mm?

I have Reba Race with the length you're looking for and I'd be happy to work out a deal, as I'm aware that the Teams are a higher model. Drop me a PM if you're interested, as we're both in Melbourne and I can make it pretty easy.
cbjaust
07-11-2007, 08:08 PM
Well, I got the Bizango! Amazing looking frame, nice and light, and the bright orange is HOT. Just need to get a steerer extension as the head tube is longer than the old bike, and it doesn't quite reach. Damn. Ill post a pic of her when she's complete...

I don't spose anyone would like to swap a pair of 2006 Reba teams with a 188mm steerer for a pair with a <190mm?

I say it's a great choice, I'm looking forward to finally getting the right sized Bizango for me if I can fit it into the budget, as I want to get new running gear as my Bizango was built up out of parts from my '97 Hoodoo which was mostly STX-RC.

My Bizango (http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~cbjaust/VB01.html)

My Hoodoo *broken ;( * (http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~cbjaust/VH01.html)
ilostmypassword
31-12-2007, 07:23 PM
And around what, 2.2-2.4kg? There great frames for a street/commuter bike, but a little heavy for a real nice XC bike. The Jamis frames are nice, but again quite heavy at around 1.9kg. I believe the Salsa is a similar weight, not sure about the Voodoo.

I discovered the realness of steel about a year ago after riding a steel bike for a little while. Unfortunately being a weight weenie the whole heavy thing didn't sit to well. Which is why I turned to Warwick at Thylacine Cycles and got an Ether. 1538gr including seatpost clamp, and with some developments since it was made they could get even lighter. It's not cheap, but a good steel frame will last you a long, long time. It's darn quick too.

If weight is an issue- I'd go for a Titanium lynskey at 1200g (ish) - I think that they come close to the tag of the Thylacine frame too (3K ish) and have a marvelous feel on the trail.
Thylacine
19-01-2008, 10:39 AM
Okay, so I'm really, really late to the party here, but here's my grain of salt contribution.

If you've only got a grand or so to spend on a frame, then really they're all going to be heavy and you're going to get what you paid for. The reality is all these frames (Voodoo, On-One, Salsa) all come out of the same two factories anyway, so you should really look at the geometry and see which one is going to suit you better.

Or, as is usually the case, the one with the prettiest colour ;)

Budget production framesets are awesome value, so they shouldn't be poo-pood too much. Unless of course you're me and pushing your own a giant wheelbarrow. ;)

For the record though, our frames start at $1995 (Ti starts at $4450) so they're probably not as expensive as you might've convinced yourself.

If anyone is in the market for an XC frame regarldess if it's one of ours or not, feel free to hit me up if you want to pick my brain about geometry or construction or whatnot.