Old school carbon GT [Archive]

ashes_mtb

26-11-2007, 05:39 PM

COZIE

26-11-2007, 07:15 PM

That's a nice looking frame for a bike that age Ashes.

Reminds me when when i bought my first duallie back around that time,a Diamondback V-link ,oh how i loved it :)

Fatman

26-11-2007, 07:26 PM

I wouldn't fall asleep if I were you, an old school GT fanatic like me may come and relieve you of it.
Sweet rig mate, be gentle as the STS is prone to folding.

rone

26-11-2007, 07:37 PM

Yeah, nice. It is unusual to see one of to see one of these still in one piece. The old thermoplastics rode great before they broke! Go easy on the old girl.

chu

27-11-2007, 01:42 PM

thats awsome as i have never seen one of them before...your right it is oldschool:p

Rik

27-11-2007, 01:52 PM

That bike makes me weak at the knees :eek:

...jim

27-11-2007, 02:22 PM

Man, I wanted one of them bad.

Carlin

27-11-2007, 03:20 PM

Nice work with the build too.

You have matched the old and the new really well.

ashes_mtb

27-11-2007, 10:04 PM

Thanks for comments - I was worried it'd get canned for not being a freeride or dirt jump rig!!

The old girl should be pretty safe in my hands, got the big mortgage now so can't afford to do big jumps and get injured anymore!

Dicky

27-11-2007, 10:31 PM

Very nice.

Hope it serves you well for a good while.

I have an identical red stem that'd look much better on your bike than in my shed...

tombre2

28-11-2007, 01:30 PM

very nice...
i've got an old GT LTS 4000. the geo makes it a sweet rig for xc, i love the old GTs.

Mammy

02-12-2007, 04:19 PM

Very nice rig.
Amazing pedigree too with Nico and Mike King ripping shit up on the world Cup circuit, back in the day.

Foes1974

03-12-2007, 06:44 PM

looks brilliant, haven't seen one of those in ages!!!!

i've been mtbing for 20 years and I reckon the sts is just about my favourite from all those years. look after it!!

ashes_mtb

03-12-2007, 09:02 PM

Very nice rig.
Amazing pedigree too with Nico and Mike King ripping shit up on the world Cup circuit, back in the day.

Not to mention Australia's Mike Ronning too!

Always loved the first dedicated LTS downhill frame with the bent seat tube, I like the fact the STS has a bit of that look in it with the bent seat tube. Has pretty much the same travel too, I think the first LTS DH was 5" in the rear (and for memory first came with 3" Judy DH's).

Its amazing how far mtb's have progressed in 10 years, but was surprised by how good the old girl rides - not embarrassed by newer rigs (although the new bikes have thankfully beefed up a bit).

AngoXC

03-12-2007, 09:38 PM

You have matched the old and the new really well.

Couldnt have said it better myself! Great to see these old GTs riding strong...and the great thing is that there are alot of GT owners kicking here so there would be a fairly decent network of parts if that issue ever arised.

Fantastic rig never the less mate! Well done!

DaGonz

07-12-2007, 06:33 AM

Its amazing how far mtb's have progressed in 10 years, but was surprised by how good the old girl rides - not embarrassed by newer rigs (although the new bikes have thankfully beefed up a bit).

Yup... but put a new shock on her and you think she was new I'd say :)

I gave my '97 LTS to my sister and do miss it a little but if it's getting her out and exercising on a bike then it's better than clogging up my flat. Still have quite a soft spot for GT's ....

...Nice ride!

Cheers
Gonz

ohalrighthen

03-01-2008, 10:33 PM

Hey,

Just thought I'd post a few pics of my "new" GT. Its a 1998 STS 1000 DS, basically a thermoplastic (carbon fibre) version of the long travel LTS. Is adjustable from 100-125mm in the rear, but I'll be leaving it on 125mm setting. Went for an old frame as I'd always wanted one back when I was racing XC and DH, but have built it up with all new parts as it'll be my regular ride.

Still need to trim down the steerer tube and extend the forks out to their 130mm setting. Also waiting on a new Fox Float for it and upgraded bearing kit for the pivots.

Will be mainly used for cross country and an occasional bit of mucking around on DH tracks, have had a few spins on it already and it goes pretty good for an old frame.

Ashes

Wow,

That's a very, very rare STS 1000, not many of them were imported into Australia by Southcott due costs & earlier 96 / 97 lugged version failing at the joints. If this was an original frameset designated for Australian market, you've got yourself a serious collectable there.

I've just built up a GT LTS-1 with some new parts as well, but the Fox Float RLC is jacking the front end up too much, even after I've reduced the travel down to 100mm, and the rear Rock Shox Super Delux is doing what it does best, performing explosive diarreah of shock oil for no good reasons.

How are you finding your Coupe Deluxe and running Recon fork at the front? Does it jack the front end up enough to ruin the steering? If not, I might give a Recon a try as well. Otherwise I might have to do the silly thing, run the Float at 80mm travel with 125mm at the back....

ashes_mtb

03-01-2008, 11:00 PM

Wow,

That's a very, very rare STS 1000, not many of them were imported into Australia by Southcott due costs & earlier 96 / 97 lugged version failing at the joints. If this was an original frameset designated for Australian market, you've got yourself a serious collectable there.

I've just built up a GT LTS-1 with some new parts as well, but the Fox Float RLC is jacking the front end up too much, even after I've reduced the travel down to 100mm, and the rear Rock Shox Super Delux is doing what it does best, performing explosive diarreah of shock oil for no good reasons.

How are you finding your Coupe Deluxe and running Recon fork at the front? Does it jack the front end up enough to ruin the steering? If not, I might give a Recon a try as well. Otherwise I might have to do the silly thing, run the Float at 80mm travel with 125mm at the back....

Hey, thanks for comments!

I had a decent off not long after building it up so have only ridden about 3 times on it but the Coupe Deluxe seems fine. I bought it with a blown Fox Vanilla Air and have a Fox Float RL from a Jekyl that I may put on it, but will need to get the trunnion mount bored out slightly to fit.

I don't mind the Recon. Doing the old carpark bouncing test I thought it had too much compression damping (not externally adjustable...) but it has been great off road. It's set at 100mm at the moment, which is the same travel the DS's came with originally (dual crown Rock Shox XL's) so doesn't affect the geometry at all. To be honest, I've probably had the back end set a bit too high if anything so the 130mm setting will probably make for a better balance. Will keep you posted as I experiment!

Does your LTS-1 have the originally titanium linkage or the later aluminium trunnion mount version like mine?

Misplaced

04-01-2008, 07:09 AM

Nick53

04-01-2008, 07:45 AM

That's a really nice bike. When you think about it there's not that much different in the frame designs apart from the newer bikes have thickers chainstays and probably use more modern material. The suspension design I've seen around too on a new bike but slightly tweaked. Really nice bike:D

floody

04-01-2008, 09:28 AM

Cool!
I'd like to do the same with an LTS-DH or LTS-xxxxDS, as I'm sure the frame design would make for a good pedalling, reasonably light All mountain rig with reasonable geometry. In the end its an FSR bike with pretty typical 90's XC geometry, so it should work.

As the other poster said, yours must either be post warranty or one of the last imports of the STS's, which is lucky for you as they're quite a bit stronger than the visibly lugged headtube version.

ohalrighthen

04-01-2008, 10:00 AM

Hey, thanks for comments!

I had a decent off not long after building it up so have only ridden about 3 times on it but the Coupe Deluxe seems fine. I bought it with a blown Fox Vanilla Air and have a Fox Float RL from a Jekyl that I may put on it, but will need to get the trunnion mount bored out slightly to fit.

I don't mind the Recon. Doing the old carpark bouncing test I thought it had too much compression damping (not externally adjustable...) but it has been great off road. It's set at 100mm at the moment, which is the same travel the DS's came with originally (dual crown Rock Shox XL's) so doesn't affect the geometry at all. To be honest, I've probably had the back end set a bit too high if anything so the 130mm setting will probably make for a better balance. Will keep you posted as I experiment!

Does your LTS-1 have the originally titanium linkage or the later aluminium trunnion mount version like mine?

No worries, good to see someone who actually cares about their classic, building it up with thoughts and care, unlike the previous owner who I brough my Xizang from, a total neglect.

Mine LTS came with the trunnion mount, which I believe is identical to yours. It also came with 2 shocks, one Fox Vanilla Air and the Exxon Valedez version of the Super Deluxe. I found the Fox Vanilla Air way too progressive for my liking so I'm going to perserver with the Super Deluxe. I just took delivery of a brand new Super Deluxe from my US contacts last month, no leaks but it has really weird compression and rebound circuit. I guess I'm spoilt on the Fox dampers so I might be expecting too much from 10 year old technology.

I've thought about getting an Fox RL for Cannondale Jerkyll as well to see if it fits, and I'm glad you've already had the experience & it will be interesting to see how you go wedging that into your LTS.

Does your rear end come with factory disc brake mounting tabs? Mine is runnning BEDT LTS adaptor which looks chunky and ugly, but at least running disc brakes elminate the famous "stink bug" effect LTS is known for under hard braking when running V-brakes.

I had an 96 LTS-3 with titanium linkage, which is currently sitting at my friends house collecting dust. I might buy that bike back from him someday.

ashes_mtb

04-01-2008, 06:09 PM

No worries, good to see someone who actually cares about their classic, building it up with thoughts and care, unlike the previous owner who I brough my Xizang from, a total neglect.

Mine LTS came with the trunnion mount, which I believe is identical to yours. It also came with 2 shocks, one Fox Vanilla Air and the Exxon Valedez version of the Super Deluxe. I found the Fox Vanilla Air way too progressive for my liking so I'm going to perserver with the Super Deluxe. I just took delivery of a brand new Super Deluxe from my US contacts last month, no leaks but it has really weird compression and rebound circuit. I guess I'm spoilt on the Fox dampers so I might be expecting too much from 10 year old technology.

I've thought about getting an Fox RL for Cannondale Jerkyll as well to see if it fits, and I'm glad you've already had the experience & it will be interesting to see how you go wedging that into your LTS.

Does your rear end come with factory disc brake mounting tabs? Mine is runnning BEDT LTS adaptor which looks chunky and ugly, but at least running disc brakes elminate the famous "stink bug" effect LTS is known for under hard braking when running V-brakes.

I had an 96 LTS-3 with titanium linkage, which is currently sitting at my friends house collecting dust. I might buy that bike back from him someday.

I'm using an A2Z disc brake adapter at the moment. It works fine but makes it difficult to remove the rear wheel. There is a small crack in the seatstay which I'm sending to Gripsport to be fixed up properly and will get them to chuck on a permanent disc tab then.

The trunnion mount is a great idea, I really like to play with the bikes geometry and set it up to my preferences, but its a pain changing the travel chip and its a shame you can't upgrade to modern shocks like you can with more conventional designs. At some stage in the future if I blow the shocks out i may get a conventional upper shock mount added to the top of the upper link. May look ugly but could be the only option in the future.

ashes_mtb

04-01-2008, 06:13 PM

I've got me a 97 STS frame hanging in the shed. Bought it from NZ for a build up project with the intention of sourcing all old skool parts and building it up as it would have been, back in the day.

It'll be a slow and pricey process but I'll get there...cant wait to finish it and post some pictures

Sweet. The 97 STS is really the classic one, with the alloy lugs front and rear, its a 'prettier' looking bike than the DS.

I contemplated an original build but its my regular ride so wanted something reliable, plus the older gear is getting pricey and hard to come by so its cheaper and easier to go down the modern route.

If you haven't seen it already, check out www.retrobike.co.uk Its a great resource for those into older mtb's. People on there are very friendly and supportive and are great help if you're after a hard to get part or need advice.

ohalrighthen

04-01-2008, 09:58 PM

I'm using an A2Z disc brake adapter at the moment. It works fine but makes it difficult to remove the rear wheel. There is a small crack in the seatstay which I'm sending to Gripsport to be fixed up properly and will get them to chuck on a permanent disc tab then.

The trunnion mount is a great idea, I really like to play with the bikes geometry and set it up to my preferences, but its a pain changing the travel chip and its a shame you can't upgrade to modern shocks like you can with more conventional designs. At some stage in the future if I blow the shocks out i may get a conventional upper shock mount added to the top of the upper link. May look ugly but could be the only option in the future.

I didn't know A2Z made a disc brake adapter for LTS. Does your LTS dropout have 2 holes in it? The trunnion mount had me puzzled for awhile, as I couldn't work out how to get the shock out of the rocker cradle. I think Cane Creek makes Cloud 9 shock for LTS - I can't find any information on their website but I do recall seeing a picture of an STS with same rear stay like yours, with a Cloud 9 air damper inside.

I didn't know that LTS has 125mm of travel. That's more than my 04 I-Drive 1.0 My last LTS had 90mm travel - I guess GT had to redesign the rear rocker to include the trunnion mount to accomodate for longer shocks as the original LTS had too high a shock ratio to make it work properly.

ashes_mtb

04-01-2008, 10:43 PM

I didn't know A2Z made a disc brake adapter for LTS. Does your LTS dropout have 2 holes in it? The trunnion mount had me puzzled for awhile, as I couldn't work out how to get the shock out of the rocker cradle. I think Cane Creek makes Cloud 9 shock for LTS - I can't find any information on their website but I do recall seeing a picture of an STS with same rear stay like yours, with a Cloud 9 air damper inside.

I didn't know that LTS has 125mm of travel. That's more than my 04 I-Drive 1.0 My last LTS had 90mm travel - I guess GT had to redesign the rear rocker to include the trunnion mount to accomodate for longer shocks as the original LTS had too high a shock ratio to make it work properly.

Yeah, my drop outs have the two holes. Have seen a 99 version on the net that came with disc brake tabs standard.

The A2Z adaptor is just a generic one, works on most bikes with flat drop outs. Your BETD would no doubt be a better fit than the A2Z.

The DS LTS/STS versions like mine were adjustable from 4" to 5" and had a more relaxed head angle. Catalog said around 69 degrees but obviously that can be adjusted a fair bit with the trunnion mount.

I'm surprised the shock ratio was too high on the originals. Both the standard trunnion and DS trunnion versions used the same shocks (which i think are 1.5" stroke) so they were around 3:1 at the higher travel setting.

ohalrighthen

06-01-2008, 01:54 PM

Hmm you might be right. I think your knowledge of LTS is better than mine.

All I can remember was that my original self-exploding Super Deluxe unit on my 96 LTS had a 1" stroke to get 3.5 inches. I might be wrong though it might have been 1.25", but it was definately less than 1.5" stroke.

Which makes me wonder - my new Super Deluxe has aroudn 1.5" of stroke so at 100mm travel setting, I'm getting leverage ration of 1:2.67, and at 125mm setting it will be at a ration of 1: 3.27 - this could be the reason that shock have weird compression and rebound damping characteristics. Do you know if inverting the plastic chips in the trunnion mount make any difference?

I was a bit surprised to see my LTS having identical head angle to my I-drive 1.0 with TALAS set at 130mm, when the Float on the LTS is set at 100mm, so if I had LTS at 5" to match the rear end, I'll be steering a bus in the single track running 68 degree head angle. I thought the LTS were built to 71 degree and I buggered it up by sticking a modern day Float on it. I feel better now - thanks for that piece of info! :)

ashes_mtb

08-01-2008, 07:55 AM

I'm not certain about the stroke lengths so I could be wrong... The one I bought is 1.5" so just assumed it was the same for all the trunnion versions.

Your LTS was built for a 3" 80mm fork, and set for a head angle of 70.5 which was the GT standard back then. So yeah, a 100mm fork, not to mention 130mm, would throw it out a bit. You might be able to jack the back end up a little by screwing down the trunnion mount to balance? The plastic chips are designed to alter the travel. On yours, the front setting (closest to the seat tube) will give you 3.5" (~90mm) and the rear setting will give you 4.5" (~115mm). I don't think the plastic chip affects the angles though, that is done by winding the shock up and down in the trunnion.

The DS was designed around a 100mm fork but had a slacker head angle to better suit its intended purpose. Doesn't bother me too much as I ride for the downhills, as long as it gets to the top eventually I'm happy. If you want it for more traditional xc purposes though it could be too slack.

ohalrighthen

08-01-2008, 05:17 PM

KA0S

08-01-2008, 06:00 PM

For out, you wouldn't think it was the old, nice find

Misplaced

09-01-2008, 07:49 AM

Sweet. The 97 STS is really the classic one, with the alloy lugs front and rear, its a 'prettier' looking bike than the DS.

I contemplated an original build but its my regular ride so wanted something reliable, plus the older gear is getting pricey and hard to come by so its cheaper and easier to go down the modern route.

If you haven't seen it already, check out www.retrobike.co.uk Its a great resource for those into older mtb's. People on there are very friendly and supportive and are great help if you're after a hard to get part or need advice.

Great link, thanks mate.

She is a good looking bike alright and it will be restored to former glory. I am lucky to have a few other bikes as my normal rides so this build is all about museum quality. Some of the parts I put on will be more of a nod to the era than to actual function, stay tuned...

cj_biker

09-01-2008, 01:20 PM

cool shaped frame

ashes_mtb

09-01-2008, 06:31 PM

Wow, thanks that's a lot of useful information, I'll have a play with the bike to see if I can balance out the front & rear by resetting the Float fork down to 80mm.

I'll be happy if I can reach a head angle of 69.5 degrees, I guess I might end up with 80mm / 125mm setting in the end but at least it will steer better between the trees.

If you can live with short travel on the front, the old GT's with the 70.5 HA were great handlers. Well worth playing around with all the different settings though.

You should post some pics too, you don't see too many of the old GT's around anymore.

ohalrighthen

12-01-2008, 02:51 PM

Well, here's some images of my LTS-1, bought from eBay in USA, restored with whatever I have kicking around at the moment... The bike frame arrived with non-original decals, but a can of alloy polish later with some factory original decals from Santa Ana fixed it up nicely.

Still need to go around an play with the geometry / ride height so the bike can corner like a GT should.

The Bedt disc brake mount looks a bit cobby, but does the job.

New Rock Shox Super Deluxe damper at the rear to replace the original Fox Vanilla Air and leaking Super Deluxe unit. The unit in the bike at the moment is nearly 1" longer than the original! Maybe I have a damper for the later model DS version...

ohalrighthen

13-01-2008, 10:21 AM

Well, took the old girl for a spin this morning and much to my surprise, it actually rode very, very well! Just about as good as my GT I-Drive 1.0 and in some parts, better than the I-Drive. The only downside I've experienced in this morning's ride is that a couple of the linkage bolts working loose & took a bit of faff to dial in the slightly eccentric Super Deluxe rear damper. Also, I'll probably in the future replace the Float fork with a Vanilla, to balance feel between both the front and rear end. At the moment the front is feeling overly progressive compared to the linear coil rear end.

I've forgotten how well the true Horst link 4 bar linkage design works. You can really feel the rear end staying fully active under braking over the bumps into corners, and square hits are not as harsh feeling as the I-Drive. My worries about the steering being thrown out with the longer Float fork turned out to be a non-issue in the end. Cornering was accurate and got that good old GT feeling back when jamming into turns, with the rear drifting away first while the front end staying put. Awesome.

I didn't think a 10+ year old rig can ride so well - definately put some other current generation bikes into shame.

ashes_mtb

13-01-2008, 02:57 PM

Mate, that LTS is really nice!!! I agree that they ride as good as the newer designs. I've never really thought all the pedalling platforms were necessary (at least for general trail riding anyway), and they seem to hamper the suspension action a bit when you need it.

The new shock might have been for an LTS DH, which came with a longer shock. Where did you get it from?

ohalrighthen

13-01-2008, 06:58 PM

Thanks Ashes, I agree some bikes needs platform damping shocks to make it more "rideable" but I guess the GT dual suspensions were designed before platform damping were in vogue, so it has been designed to cope with pretty basic dampes.

Hmm I think you might be right - that Super Deluxe is pretty long, so might be made for a longer travel LTS design. I got my shock from a contact I have in US - I see him on eBay once awhile selling off some really old stuff so if you're looking for one, I can send you his contact details.