P/L-Plate Learner Legal Cars

[tld_06]

I hate Vic Roads. Always have, always will. The majority of them are stuck up crusty old bastards.

I've now gone to 3 different Vic Roads branches, but still can't get a straight answer. Every time I go in there to try and find out what the legal power limit is for a P/L Plater, all I seem to get is either a stuck up snob or a alcoholic. I Tried all the websites. No answer. Everyone there is just simply not interested.

My question to you fellow farkiners, what is the legal power limit for a P/L-Plate driver? Looking at the likes of series 2-4 Mazda RX7's, Mitsubishi Cordia's, AE86 Sprinters and S13 Silvia.

I have been told that the limit is 125kw to the tonne, but I then I was told that the limit was 150HP to the tonne.

So I need 2 answers, KW~HP conversion, and whether any of these cars are under the legal limit. The main 2 I'm looking at are the RX7 and the Cordia.

*Rant Over*

[ozelise]

If you got your licence after 1/7/07

http://www.arrivealive.vic.gov.au/c_youngGLS_9a.html


If you got your licence before 1/7/07

http://www.arrivealive.vic.gov.au/c_youngGLS_9b.html

[lebronmtb]

IF YOU GOT YOURS P'S AFTER JULY 2007

YOU CANT DRIVE CARS WITH

Eight or more cylinders;
A turbocharged or supercharged engine;
An engine that has been modified to improve its performance; and/or
Certain high performance six cylinder cars.

THIS EXCLUDES
Turbocharged and supercharged diesel powered vehicles
(without engine performance modifications);
Nominated vehicles with low powered turbocharged or supercharged engines; and
All models of the Smart car, produced by Mercedes Benz.


Unfortunately I fall into this category so im doing no visual performance mods and keeping my car as much as a sleeper as I can

['Ross]

You can drive whatever you like on your L's :)

[jjperko]

I hate Vic Roads. Always have, always will. The majority of them are stuck up crusty old bastards.

I've now gone to 3 different Vic Roads branches, but still can't get a straight answer. Every time I go in there to try and find out what the legal power limit is for a P/L Plater, all I seem to get is either a stuck up snob or a alcoholic. I Tried all the websites. No answer. Everyone there is just simply not interested.

My question to you fellow farkiners, what is the legal power limit for a P/L-Plate driver? Looking at the likes of series 2-4 Mazda RX7's, Mitsubishi Cordia's, AE86 Sprinters and S13 Silvia.

I have been told that the limit is 125kw to the tonne, but I then I was told that the limit was 150HP to the tonne.

So I need 2 answers, KW~HP conversion, and whether any of these cars are under the legal limit. The main 2 I'm looking at are the RX7 and the Cordia.

*Rant Over*

Yes it is definitely 125kw per tonne before July this year (thankfully I'm in this category). I believe the rule is based around the WRX?

[tld_06]

Alright thanks for that!

It would seem that the RX7 non-turbo would be the go then, now, anyone know where I can get my hands on a daytona bodykit?:p

[|Matt|]

Did you know according to those laws, it is LEGAL to drive a Honda S2000? How stupid!

Also, it says ENGINE that has been modified. So does that mean its legal to put, say, extractors or something on a car? They increase power but they aren't a modification of the engine, so to speak.

[Graunched]

What is it about the increased level of retardation in the roads departments in the south of Australia? (note:i know nill about SA's and tazzies road rules)

Unless i am missing something when i moved from QLD a p-plater could drive almost any car that they wanted, had only one form of p-plate and didnt have a curfew etc etc.

I would just like to know if p-platers in the southern states are just shittier drivers or you have some really retentive old farts running your road departments?????

[jjperko]

Did you know according to those laws, it is LEGAL to drive a Honda S2000? How stupid!

Also, it says ENGINE that has been modified. So does that mean its legal to put, say, extractors or something on a car? They increase power but they aren't a modification of the engine, so to speak.

As far as I know the old power to weight law still applies as well as engine and vehicle specifics, S2000s have 137kw per tonne so they are illegal? Surely they wouldnt have overlooked so many NA cars.

http://www.gazette.vic.gov.au/Gazettes2007/GG2007S150.pdf

If those cars are the only exclusions you could get around in a damn quick 80's 911!

[donthucktoflat]

you poor suckers.

driving a 200+kw atw RX7 is fun!

(or so i hear.. havent driven it in so long :( tomorrow though!!:D:D)

[Ty]

What is it about the increased level of retardation in the roads departments in the south of Australia? (note:i know nill about SA's and tazzies road rules)

Unless i am missing something when i moved from QLD a p-plater could drive almost any car that they wanted, had only one form of p-plate and didnt have a curfew etc etc.

I would just like to know if p-platers in the southern states are just shittier drivers or you have some really retentive old farts running your road departments?????



This has changed now, P platers in QLD have simlar rules concerning v8s, turbochargers and superchargers.

also P platers can't drive after 11 (or something) with another 'young' person in the car. (or something along those line)

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/Home/Licensing/Learn_to_drive/Young_drivers/

[DH_co]

Im fairly sure in QLD the new law is that ant car over 200kw cannot be driven by a p plater, not weight ratio shit...Thats what I read on the site, but I may be wrong?

And what is the new law with engine mods? I always thought things like air flow and breathing mods were ok.
Eg, could you chuck in a larger throttle? Because it is not really modifying the engine, but the air flowing into it?

[Ivan]

Roughly 0.75Kw = 1 hp :)

[mike-]

I always did 1kW = 1.3HP

[Graunched]

This has changed now, P platers in QLD have simlar rules concerning v8s, turbochargers and superchargers.

also P platers can't drive after 11 (or something) with another 'young' person in the car. (or something along those line)

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/Home/Licensing/Learn_to_drive/Young_drivers/

Thats insane. Knew nothing about that at all. Well i havent been on my P's for a while but still. Retardation Australia wide.......what is this country coming to?

[NH_]

Thats insane. Knew nothing about that at all. Well i havent been on my P's for a while but still. Retardation Australia wide.......what is this country coming to?

WA hasnt got any stupid rules ;) haha

[Trance_Kidd]

well my birthday was on the 1/7 so only just missed out.

[chu]

do what i did...i got a s13 silvia q...its just a k without a turbo...i love it and it got a fair amount of guts for a 4...it rapes our BA so get a non turbo version of an import;)

[StormFire]

meh, darwinism should be allowed to take it's course i say. P platers in high powered cars is always guaranteed to refine the gene pool somewhat.

Do your 3 years as a P-plater and get a few K's under your belt, and then jump into your dream car. Those 3 years of experience in a crappy(er) car aren't gonna kill you, but jumping into that high powered one straight away might.

[McPete]

You don't need a shockingly powerful car to have fun. Think about things like a Suzuki Swift GTi. Yes, little buzz box but an awesome drive. No issues of contention with the law. Or something stupid and ridiculous, like a Landcruiser (I have one, bright red, love it :P).

What I want is a Triumph Stag. Old, English, classy, beautiful but unfortunately the 110Kw, 3.0L V8 is bound to kill me, according to the RTA... Where the Lifted, semi-offroad Falcon with stone age rear suspension and the 180Kw motor is fine?

RTA/VicRoads= Clever -_-

[Vicious_Fishes]

meh, darwinism should be allowed to take it's course i say. P platers in high powered cars is always guaranteed to refine the gene pool somewhat.

Do your 3 years as a P-plater and get a few K's under your belt, and then jump into your dream car. Those 3 years of experience in a crappy(er) car aren't gonna kill you, but jumping into that high powered one straight away might.

somehow i'd say that a honda accord, wrx, bmw, mercedes, etc with abs, crumple zones, high-performance tyres, airbags, AWD, traction control, etc etc is going to be a SHITLOAD safer than say, a vl commodore that has 199kw opposed to one of them making 201kw. (or even half the power of one of the newer cars ?)

possibly the stupidest rule ever after the passenger limit rule for night-time.

i say buy the newest, safest car you can when you're on your p plates, even if it is more powerful. ;)

[moto-james]

You don't need a shockingly powerful car to have fun. Think about things like a Suzuki Swift GTi. Yes, little buzz box but an awesome drive.

RTA/VicRoads= Clever -_-

bahahahhahah

[McPete]

What's particularly funny about that? The Swift, both the old version and the new are great cars. The old one, in the GTi was a very competent little car, and all the others were good for a laugh, especially the 0.9L, carby fed GA. Sounds like a big sewing machine :P

[StormFire]

I don't think it's an argument of newer Vs older, and crumple zones and safety and what not, sure a new car is going to be safer if you crash it, but I think what these laws are getting around to is avoiding that whole crashing bit as much as possible.

Granted, the majority of P platers dont make the miscalculation of wrapping themselves around a tree, but it's the inopportune few that the laws have to cater for, and as a result make the roads a marginally safer place for everyone who uses them, that's both you and me.

I'm not singing the praises of this legislation in it's entirety, a low power V8 or a turbo diesel are still fine in my books, just as long as the whole power to weight threshold comes into play, but i think that the laws still have their merits.

abs, crumple zones, high-performance tyres, airbags, AWD, traction control, etc etc do makes car's far safer by todays standards, but however if you still have the power on tap, and plant your foot at a less then perfect time (which after all is what experience is all about, and what we're talking about when referring to P platers) you still have the potential for very very bad things to occur.

I've seen a guy from high school run into house with a car full of mates while doing some ridiculous speed, that resulted in two of his mates dead and him in jail, I've also seen guys write car's off while trying to be the next possum bourne on dirt roads, and all of these guys were just fresh on their P-plates, trying to impress their mates.

And that's what it all comes down to, experience.

Sure, P platers are going to bitch and whine about it for as long as limitations exist on their licenses, saying that people can still act like dicks in lower powered cars, but limiting their access to high powered cars with no doubt decreases the potential of something catastrophic occurring. And all in all it is lives that we are talking about, not so much of the people been immature in their cars, but more so of the people that their actions can effect, the people in the cars that they might hit, or the people on the footpath when they loose control and leave the road, and if it manages to save a life or two in states where it is implemented, then I view it as something that should be tolerated.

[PEELER]

As i always say its only illegal if you get caught.:p
Ive been driving a ba xr8 ute too work for 4-5 months now
and ive still got my licence:D:p.

[VW NUT]

Just pimp a Volkswagen :p

[tld_06]

II've seen a guy from high school run into house with a car full of mates while doing some ridiculous speed, that resulted in two of his mates dead and him in jail, I've also seen guys write car's off while trying to be the next possum bourne on dirt roads, and all of these guys were just fresh on their P-plates, trying to impress their mates.

And that's what it all comes down to, experience.

Sure, P platers are going to bitch and whine about it for as long as limitations exist on their licenses, saying that people can still act like dicks in lower powered cars, but limiting their access to high powered cars with no doubt decreases the potential of something catastrophic occurring. And all in all it is lives that we are talking about, not so much of the people been immature in their cars, but more so of the people that their actions can effect, the people in the cars that they might hit, or the people on the footpath when they loose control and leave the road, and if it manages to save a life or two in states where it is implemented, then I view it as something that should be tolerated.

Point taken, but what about the majority of us drivers who actually care and don't act like fucktards on the roads? Are we just supposed to suffer because some smart-arsed prick decides to take his dad's VL Commodore out for a spin, drives into a bush shelter and crushes 3 kids?

As for the point of something catastrophic happening, I completely agree with you, but I believe it should be the same getting as your Racing License. Drivers should be made to do an Advanced Drivers course and actually taught how to drive, not how to get their license.

I dont mean to be an ass, i just wanna make a point:p

[tld_06]

Oh and yeah, McPete, the swift's are pretty sweet, but how about the MIGHTY BOY!

http://www.ev-power.com.au/IMG/arton8.jpg

[NH_]

Point taken, but what about the majority of us drivers who actually care and don't act like fucktards on the roads? Are we just supposed to suffer because some smart-arsed prick decides to take his dad's VL Commodore out for a spin, drives into a bush shelter and crushes 3 kids?

As for the point of something catastrophic happening, I completely agree with you, but I believe it should be the same getting as your Racing License. Drivers should be made to do an Advanced Drivers course and actually taught how to drive, not how to get their license.

I dont mean to be an ass, i just wanna make a point:p

so you want to buy a car that has lots of power just because you can? personally i dont see any point in getting a high power car or modding a car so it has more power, all just so the car sounds good and you can get up to the speed limit quicker (although most of them dont stop at the speed limit), IMO if you cant be satisfied by a cars power when stock your a tool and you should piss off.

[LTR]

Point taken, but what about the majority of us drivers who actually care and don't act like fucktards on the roads? Are we just supposed to suffer because some smart-arsed prick decides to take his dad's VL Commodore out for a spin, drives into a bush shelter and crushes 3 kids?

As for the point of something catastrophic happening, I completely agree with you, but I believe it should be the same getting as your Racing License. Drivers should be made to do an Advanced Drivers course and actually taught how to drive, not how to get their license.

I dont mean to be an ass, i just wanna make a point:p
If you cared, and didnt act like a 'fucktard', why do you need more power on the tap? Think of it more this way; it is a privilege to own a more powerful car once you have completed 3 years of driving experience.

Also, just because you have your name down as passed in an Advanced Drivers course, does not mean that you have picked up skills which you will use when you are driving on normal roads. 3 years driving experience on normal roads, under normal conditions is very valuable for peoples driving skills.

[Kirky]

As for the point of something catastrophic happening, I completely agree with you, but I believe it should be the same getting as your Racing License. Drivers should be made to do an Advanced Drivers course and actually taught how to drive, not how to get their license.

How will that help?

The reason they don't let young teenagers drive fast cars is not because they can't drive. It's because there consontration levils are not as good as older drivers.

You could have hundreds of hours of racing lessons and be a really good driver. But there is still problems. First, it wont help you park. Secondly, after all his training he could be driving around the streets, hes eye catches a hot babe on the footpath. Then suddenly, a car pulls out and he is unaware and hit it. He dies. How dose the training help with that that?

That is the reason, even thought there is a few incompetent women that crash because of the lack of driving skills. The main reason of deaths is lack of concentration, young P-platers cannot help it. If you give them a fast car, the will only crash at a higher speed. There is a lot more to driving then moving the steering wheel.

[Chriss]

Yes it is definitely 125kw per tonne before July this year.

Is this 125kw per tonne at the wheels? or at the fly wheel?


Unless i am missing something when i moved from QLD a p-plater could drive almost any car that they wanted, had only one form of p-plate and didnt have a curfew etc etc.

That all changed July 1st 2007, (Link with further info (http://www.caradvice.com.au/1303/qld-driver-licence-new-rules-learners-p-plates-july-2007/)). These days the rules very much mirror that of NSW and VIC.

Luckily i missed out on all of this:D

[Haro_MTB]

Did you know according to those laws, it is LEGAL to drive a Honda S2000? How stupid!

Also, it says ENGINE that has been modified. So does that mean its legal to put, say, extractors or something on a car? They increase power but they aren't a modification of the engine, so to speak.

No, its still illegal to put something like extractors or an exhaust on. It counts as an engine modification because it will effect the power output, or some factor of how the engine runs, even tho really they aren't attached to the engine.

[Haro_MTB]

Sorry, also, its 125kW, measured at the vehicles flywheel.

[soty]

Half decent taste in cars there man.. My pick would be the '86.
I'm not 100% sure but there's some ruling (or lack there of) about rotaries, which i think someone who's more knowledgable could explain.

Anyway, point of my reply, there's 217634823894623 other kids who are effected by the new laws (including me) but why fight the system and try and get as much power as possible legally. I'm a car enthusiast, honestly, imports and (don't ask why) VL's with dose pipes tickle my fancy. Point is, why border on legalities of road rules when the point is, you don't need all that extra power anyway. Just because you have a tougher engine, they won't increase speed limits for you.

Just wait it out :rolleyes:
In conclusion get a Treuno.. but good luck finding a good one.

[StormFire]

Point taken, but what about the majority of us drivers who actually care and don't act like fucktards on the roads? Are we just supposed to suffer because some smart-arsed prick decides to take his dad's VL Commodore out for a spin, drives into a bush shelter and crushes 3 kids?

As for the point of something catastrophic happening, I completely agree with you, but I believe it should be the same getting as your Racing License. Drivers should be made to do an Advanced Drivers course and actually taught how to drive, not how to get their license.

I dont mean to be an ass, i just wanna make a point:p

Don't get me wrong, I like a powerful car just as much as the next guy, my newest addition to the stable is a falcodore with 225kw (fits right in with my love of wifebeaters and VB).

But unfortunately all laws most commonly cater to the lowest common denominator and in the case of road laws are aimed towards the preservation of life wherever possible, be it in the introduction of 40k zones around schools, the abolishment of no speed limit in the NT, or the restriction of P-platers in what cars they can drive.

It would be nice if we lived in a utopian society where we didn't have to plan for the inevitability that someone is more than likely to act as a cock spank, but we do, and so restrictions on driving as a probationary licensee are inevitable and something that we have to deal with.

Just treat them as a necessary evil and get a nicer car with plenty of fuel guzzling capacity once you're off your P plates.

so you want to buy a car that has lots of power just because you can? personally i dont see any point in getting a high power car or modding a car so it has more power, all just so the car sounds good and you can get up to the speed limit quicker (although most of them dont stop at the speed limit), IMO if you cant be satisfied by a cars power when stock your a tool and you should piss off.

Sorry, no offence but i can't stand that whole argument that high power cars are pointless (sorry again, i'm paraphrasing but i'm sure that's what you're saying). Higher powered cars an an enjoyment to drive, it's as simple like that. Some people are more than happy to chug along in their 1.0 litre 3 cylinder Sirion's, and are more than happy to plan ahead for any oncoming incline for the knowledge that their wallet will be that little bit heavier due to fuel savings. But for cruising down a freeway, or towing a trailer, or for just plain driving to work, I'd prefer to have every little bit of power that I could.

If you cared, and didnt act like a 'fucktard', why do you need more power on the tap? Think of it more this way; it is a privilege to own a more powerful car once you have completed 3 years of driving experience.

Also, just because you have your name down as passed in an Advanced Drivers course, does not mean that you have picked up skills which you will use when you are driving on normal roads. 3 years driving experience on normal roads, under normal conditions is very valuable for peoples driving skills.

One of my house mates did the AAMI advanced driving course a month or two back, and his opinion was that it was the biggest joke of all time. It consisted of a bunch of newly licensed P-platers jumping in their cars and seeing the effects of slamming on their brakes and what not in different driving conditions, which could be off value to someone who's recently received their license, but all in all it once again won't even hold a candle to experience over time.

[Vicious_Fishes]

One of my house mates did the AAMI advanced driving course a month or two back, and his opinion was that it was the biggest joke of all time. It consisted of a bunch of newly licensed P-platers jumping in their cars and seeing the effects of slamming on their brakes and what not in different driving conditions, which could be off value to someone who's recently received their license, but all in all it once again won't even hold a candle to experience over time.

actually mate, that's extrememly valuable.

when i bought my car the first thing i did with it was go out into the gravel and find out how it behaved. pinching the brakes with the wheels turned, what made it under or oversteer, putting power on in the middle of the corner, etc etc.

i remembered being told in a subaru that if you go hard onto the brakes right into the apex of the corner (yes with the front wheels turned) then let the brakes off and plant it, it will make the car oversteer as it turns the car & takes weight/grip off the back wheels.

this is true, and i recently wrote my car off going around a downhill gravel j corner which had all manner of shit in the middle of the road, causing me to lose traction and head straight for a tree.

once i knew there was no way i was going to catch it, i pinched my cars brakes and flicked it into oversteer, so as to avoid having a head on with the tree.

i still managed to roll the car three times as the back of it hit the tree on the way round & sent it down a bank, but my point is that if i hadn't gone out and found out what made my car slide, how it slided and how to catch/control the drift i would have had a head-on with a tree.

i escaped from the crash unscathed, thank god.

Yes, i am a p plater. i had lost my licence for speeding on a 4 lane wide road, with no traffic or people in sight and having a police officer GUESS my speed,
and only got it back the day before writing my car off.

yes i was inexperienced, in fact me not having a licence for 3 months made my driving skill plummet even further.

point is that for starters i don't think that licence disqualification is a good solution, i'd make it the same system as drug usage or drink-driving - those type of people are forced to go through insane amounts of classes, rehab, etc and it shouldn't be any different for drivers. fine them a shitload of cash, but use it to pay for 3 or 4 advanced/defensive/safety awareness courses which must be passed before they get their licence back, which should in theory teach them not only how to avoid dangerous situations (like mine) but when they miscalculate and fuck up, how to minimise the danger to themselves and all others, rather than them having to do something illegal to know how to stop themselves being killed or killing someone else WHEN they fuck up;)

for all of you thinking that i was simply driving like a dickhead, you're wrong. i was doing 15km/h UNDER the limit and due to being inexperienced (and therefore not enough aware of the limits of my car in gravel and in fact what gravel roads can be like in terms of grip/etc) i was still going too fast and crashed. it was the illegal "teaching myself to drive" if you will, that saved my ass.

finally, everybody rants on about experience and that because you are a young driver you don't know the limits of your car/what may happen in situation X/how traction changes in rain/etc, whilst this may be true the only way that you can fully understand what safe driving is is to know what unsafe is or what the limits are, and how do you find them ?

by breaking them.

[tld_06]

How will that help?

The reason they don't let young teenagers drive fast cars is not because they can't drive. It's because there consontration levils are not as good as older drivers.

You could have hundreds of hours of racing lessons and be a really good driver. But there is still problems. First, it wont help you park. Secondly, after all his training he could be driving around the streets, hes eye catches a hot babe on the footpath. Then suddenly, a car pulls out and he is unaware and hit it. He dies. How dose the training help with that that?

That is the reason, even thought there is a few incompetent women that crash because of the lack of driving skills. The main reason of deaths is lack of concentration, young P-platers cannot help it. If you give them a fast car, the will only crash at a higher speed. There is a lot more to driving then moving the steering wheel.

I completely agree with what you're saying about being inexperienced. But say if they do, 20 Hours of solid advanced car driving tests, you would assume that their concentration levels would be up as they've already racked up 120hours on the new laws. I really like the new curfew laws with no driving with passengers and stuff like that, but in my opinion, we should have the option of going through an advanced driving course.

I know exactly what your saying is true for the majority of young people, but for people like me who have 10/12 years of karting, motorbiking, etc. under my belt then we should have the option of taking an advanced course.

And as for finding a good '86. Let's just say a little birdy told me of a white one with red recaros:p. But still, RX7's are a rotary, and they're like a big 2 stroke (i'm a 2stroke fan!). I have already been told that I can get insurance ($3900 year:mad:)

[Arete]

I had a similar experience to VC up there... I was inexperienced, driving Dad's (new at the time) MY00WRX too fast for the pissing down rain I was driving through and slid it off the road, writing it off and making a bit of a mess of myself in the process. No excuses, inexperience had me halfway through a slippery corner when the boost came on and that was the end of it.

As a result, Dad and I went halves in a '88 Volvo 240. I was less than impressed at the time but being a rwd, manual with a not a lot of power and a predictable, boring nature it allowed me to a) get some experience in a less tempremental, easy to drive car, b) act like a teenager in a car without as much risk of killing myself in the process and c) learn a lot about cars when it regularly fucked out and died on me until 3 years later we traded it with a dying head gasket.

I then bought my first outright car in the form of a 94 Mx6. Bit of a hairdresser's car, but a lot more power than the 240, and a bit more class. I had it and enjoyed it for anout 2-3 years until a Mosman mum took care of it in her Landcruiser.

I just recently bought a Gtir Pulsar with 7-8 years driving experience, and I love it. However, it is way too tempting to do especially silly things in it and I can honestly say that if I had this car 5-6 years ago I would have probably crashed it a few times already or lost my licence. Faster cars demand more driving skill and more respect, something which I know I didn't have when I was on my P's

Wait, buy a slow shitbox first would be my advice. Odds on you're going to do something inexperienced and dumb in it, most people do, even if it's just a parking mishap. I would steer well clear of an Rx7 or an 86. Realistically you'd be looking at a pretty worn out old car that handles worse and goes slower than a less conspicuous modern car. It'd be a money pit and a cop magnet for sure, especially with P plates on it.

My picks would be an late model camry or magna, or a 323/corolla/other hatch.

[donthucktoflat]

so you want to buy a car that has lots of power just because you can? personally i dont see any point in getting a high power car or modding a car so it has more power, all just so the car sounds good and you can get up to the speed limit quicker (although most of them dont stop at the speed limit), IMO if you cant be satisfied by a cars power when stock your a tool and you should piss off.

mate, you are a fuckin idiot.

you completely blanket every single young driver and drivers of modified cars.

i dont know about you, but when i pour well over 20k into a car, i know that i dont want to majorly fuck up and crash it. henceforth, i pay more attention.

btw i am 19, i drive a heavily modified RX7 and i have never had an accident. ever.

i attend trackdays, skid pan days and street meets so i can push myself and my car to the limits in a safe controlled environment. sure i like to give it a hit or embarrass the cockhead who reckons his new clubby is the bees knees every now and then but i take a calculated risk (am i gonna get done, are there cars in front of me etc etc) and if there's any ReAL danger im not gonna run somebody.


im a street racer YO! (and therefore the devil, apparently)