american shootings....

[kona_scrap]

It may be a gloomy topic but in school we are watching the documentary thing Bowling For Columbine. It's the firts time i've even heard of it and watching it i was almost physicaly sick, watching all the shit that happens in the US. I couldn't believe the amounts of money involved either, $300m in weapons :eek:. And then with the 4 shootings a few weeks ago, i still cant believe George Bush does shit all about the gun laws.....

Anyway, i just want to know your thoughts about this subject guys,

Thanks, Tom

[rabatt]

havent seen what your talking about, but ever played grand theft auto? or any number of newer games? with very lifelike details, numbs ppl i guess.

[Breaka]

First things first, I'm all for guns and shoot. I'm a shooter myself.

I think American firearm policys are rediculous. The problems don't exactly lie in Bush's choice to not irradicate gun ownership, but the publics fucked up belief that it's their RIGHT to be able to weild a firearm.

[AngoXC]

i still cant believe George Bush does shit all about the gun laws.....


Thanks, Tom

Guns are allowed to be kept under constiutional law under the Second Amendment in the US. Now Im not really up on the US Constitution but I think it takes more then a President to get it changed...

I agree, those shootings are sickening and are occuring way to regualrly for my liking. Its only a matter of time before this is carried on all over the place.

rabatt has more or less got it in one. I think that the media, and indeed the amout of violence we (especially kids) are exposed to has alot to do with it.

[Silly.Cat]

oh yeah bowling for columbine or whatever is the doco with michael more or whatever? thats fair intense.. with those kids who got all shot up and u see all their scars and like they go to wallmart and the kids, im pretty sure from memmory, buy all that amunition.

i used to live over seas and my mates mum used to have a hand gun under the seat and a rifle under the backseat incase they got rolled when they dropped their kids at school... so likely.. i mean wtf is with these people. Being a young lad, it kinda sucks in away living in australia as your restricted from all that "fun" and dangerous stuff, such as owning your very own .22 to go kill some bears and some crazy fucking animals for fun with your dad and his "pals" and blow some shit up with your crazy ass legal fire works.. im being sarcastic.. just saying so i dont get flamed but in reality because the australian laws are so strict, it makes us a safer place. i can go to school, knowing that the chance of a kid going to school and shooting everyone he or she see's just because he or she doesnt like monday's or something fucking stupid like that. American seriously needs to change their ways. I mean what do they expect to happen when someone as nutty as tom cruise can buy high powered weapons from the local walmart (well you could before columbine) or from their local gun shop and just have to show their drivers license. If your going to kill your self. dont be a pussy and fucking take everyone at school with you...

[PINT of Stella, mate!]

It's their national sport ferchrissake! Although try as hard as they like the yanks still can't knock aussie battler Martin Bryant off the top of the high score table!

;)

[|Matt|]

There was a really good documentary onTV here a while ago, I can't remember what it was called though. It had like a reinactment of it, it was all dark filming (maybe to show that it was evil and such) and I thought it was a really good representation of what it might have been like.

Bowling for Columbine is good, but it only showed after effects, it didn't really show what happened during the massacre. Apparently theres a decent doco/movie called 'Elephant', maybe thats the one I'm thinking of.

Oh and by the way, a President/Prime Minister can't just amend the constitution.. It requires a ridiculously long string of bills and votes with a high % either way to pass/reject it.

[Cameo]

On the topic of American HS shootings, I was about 5 km's away from Columbine when it happened, was gnarly as fuck. Sirens everywhere, and we were put on lockdown at my elementary school. Scary shit.

[xc_machine]

And then with the 4 shootings a few weeks ago, i still cant believe George Bush does shit all about the gun laws.....

Thanks, Tom

As breaka said, its not as simple as just making regulatory gun laws more harsh. You can't just say that expecting it to be a simple thing to do.

[Vicious_Fishes]

havent seen what your talking about, but ever played grand theft auto? or any number of newer games? with very lifelike details, numbs ppl i guess.

fix your avatar, before anyone else notices...

['Ross]

First Step: Listen to everything Micheal Moore has to say, everything he documents is completely factual, not biased, totally credible and he is a thin and attractive man.



sarcasmmmmmmmm. Moore sucks and so do his films

[rabatt]

hmm... i will get around to it one day:p

oh an we dont have rights we have privelages...

[Venciferus]

I think that the media, and indeed the amout of violence we (especially kids) are exposed to has alot to do with it.

I don't think that at all and don't really like when people say it either.

I'm exposed to exactly the same media as most kids my age (16) and there's absolutely no way I could do anything remotely close to a mass shooting, same goes for nearly everyone I know (apart from the emo's)

It really comes down to personality, some people are screwed up and feel no remorse what so ever and some people can't say a bad thing about another.

People were screwed up in the past, people are screwed up now.

Probably a bad explanation but I couldn't get the point across.

[kona_scrap]

I don't think that at all and don't really like when people say it either.

I'm exposed to exactly the same media as most kids my age (16) and there's absolutely no way I could do anything remotely close to a mass shooting, same goes for nearly everyone I know (apart from the emo's)

It really comes down to personality, some people are screwed up and feel no remorse what so ever and some people can't say a bad thing about another.

People were screwed up in the past, people are screwed up now.

Probably a bad explanation but I couldn't get the point across.

Just a guess at what you were saying; but people are born with that hatred, in a manner of speaking. I don't think the media, music, and video games have too much of an input. Sure, if there is a 6 year old kid playing GTA and he sees the dude kill someone and nick there car then sure, hes going to think its an awesome idea.
Most of the people that play these games dont go out and kill 13 people at every chance, but a small majority do. And thats part of the problem in the US.

Just to clarify, not all of the US is like this. I used to live out there for about 7 years, and nothing like this ever happened any where near me, or even in my state. Just to clear up any unhealthy steriotypes :)

Thanks, Tom

[scottdo2086]

Hmm, I think it not just involves the individuals but rather the environment they have been raised in, like the Family and how they treat each other, the mores they instill in the children, aswell as the communities attitudes towards things. You cant just attribute these mass shootings to because they where bullied as a kid, its just way to complex for us to understand, and i dont think we ever will as they normally just kill themselves at the end. Just my thoughts anyway.

[Venciferus]

Hmm, I think it not just involves the individuals but rather the environment they have been raised in, like the Family and how they treat each other, the mores they instill in the children, aswell as the communities attitudes towards things. You cant just attribute these mass shootings to because they where bullied as a kid, its just way to complex for us to understand,

I agree totally to that, thing is with a bad home life, you pretty much have no where to escape it, being a young kid you rely on your parents and home life. Although I think the media plays quite a small part, I do believe (like you) that your parents play a big part in influencing your morals and moulding your personality when you're very young.

[rabatt]

you do have a point, the human mind is very complex, i dont think anyone fully understands how it works, i know for myself that i can go from bein ok about stuff to seriusly considering ending it all, and even though cercumstances havent changed much, most people wouldnt even notice a diference, but the way i preceive things changes, its kinda scary... i think i know how you can get to that stage.

i guess my personality in a diferent enviroment, without the freinds i have for suport, could have some pretty disasteruos results.


however i still think the things you feed on, the music you listen to, the movies you watch, the games you play, all have a bigger influence on our attitude then most people think it does.

[Plow King]

There was a really good documentary onTV here a while ago, I can't remember what it was called though. It had like a reinactment of it, it was all dark filming (maybe to show that it was evil and such) and I thought it was a really good representation of what it might have been like.

Bowling for Columbine is good, but it only showed after effects, it didn't really show what happened during the massacre. Apparently theres a decent doco/movie called 'Elephant', maybe thats the one I'm thinking of.


there is a show on the discovery channel called 'Zero Hour' I'm pretty sure it was on channel 10 for a while not long ago, that might be what you're thinking about.

America is f***** when it comes to guns, I remember watching a show with a child who tried to commit suicide 3 times and is seriosuly messed up, yet his parents willing gave him a loaded gun at the age of 10.

[scottdo2086]

I agree with you all that the US have quite stupid laws regarding to gun owner ship aswell but even if there was the same amount of guns that per capita in australia i still think you would get way less deaths or injuries because of the way our society perceives things.

[Silly.Cat]

yeah i think americans in general are to serious about stuff.. ever taken off in an Australian airport where everything is relaxed.. landed in an american airport where security has crazy ass guns, they make children take off their shoes.. take all bottles of liquid and toothpaste off of you. Fair enough that 911 happened but i think it just shows how over the top the american public is in general. Also american tourists in airports are so annoying. Us Australians are relaxed and not really worried if we are delayed by 2 hours.. americans usually go off their nut and have a big cry. Not saying all americans are like this.. but ive seen alot more americans do this then australians. But i guess in a way you have to give the americans the benefit of the doubt.. we come from a country with 20 million people compared to their 200 million people.. that means they have like 10x the crazy nutty people we do... meaning this crazy shit is 10x more likely to happen.

[Jon]

Long before "Bowling for Columbine" there was a doco in the early 80's called "the killing of America"
Track that sucker down and watch it for a true insight into American gun culture,scary stuff.

[kona_scrap]

yeah i think americans in general are to serious about stuff.. ever taken off in an Australian airport where everything is relaxed.. landed in an american airport where security has crazy ass guns, they make children take off their shoes.. take all bottles of liquid and toothpaste off of you. Fair enough that 911 happened but i think it just shows how over the top the american public is in general. Also american tourists in airports are so annoying. Us Australians are relaxed and not really worried if we are delayed by 2 hours.. americans usually go off their nut and have a big cry. Not saying all americans are like this.. but ive seen alot more americans do this then australians. But i guess in a way you have to give the americans the benefit of the doubt.. we come from a country with 20 million people compared to their 200 million people.. that means they have like 10x the crazy nutty people we do... meaning this crazy shit is 10x more likely to happen.

yes, but this is all because of the fear that the media are responsible for. they make it out that every other day there is a bomb scare and that it could of been right next to you. the media bread the fear in the world; they scare you into buying things, they scare you into thinking things, they scare you into doing things. its all them. if it wasnt for the media the US airports probably wouldnt be as bad. sure after 9/11 they had to tighten up security, and then again after that whole "liquid bomb thing" but they maybe have gone a tiny bit overboard due to the fear.

[dcrofty]

Quick pop quiz.

What percentage of Americans own a firearm?

Answers in this interesting and highly topical SMH article. Figure was not as high as I expected.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/us-election/creeping-around-a-debate-that-has-citizens-up-in-arms/2008/02/22/1203467389009.html

[kona_scrap]

oh, i thought it would be fun to add this.

America has 173 times as many people killed each year by guns than australia.

America: 11,250 a year
Australia 65 a year

[dcrofty]

oh, i thought it would be fun to add this.

America has 173 times as many people killed each year by guns than australia.

America: 11,250 a year
Australia 65 a year

Per capita or corrected for different population sizes to allow for a meaningful comparison?

Whats the source of that info by the way, I'm interested to know.

[kona_scrap]

Per capita or corrected for different population sizes to allow for a meaningful comparison?

Whats the source of that info by the way, I'm interested to know.

that is per year. I am not sure if it has been corrected for differences in population. it was in bow=ling for columbine, but one of my teachers researched it and it turns out to be 100% true.

EDIT: my dad and i just corrected the numbers. America has 10x as many people. so that would equal 650 killings a year, if the population was equal.

that means america still has about 17x as many klillings a year as australia.

hope that made sense. if not i can go into a bit more detail :)

[dcrofty]

that means america still has about 17x as many klillings a year as australia.

hope that made sense. if not i can go into a bit more detail :)

Ta. Yeah I expected the number would be higher.

[liamo]

it turns out to be 100% true.Do you know when these figures were obtained?

A quick google shows that in 2001 there were 29,573 (http://thegreenman.net.au/mt/gun_deaths_in_usa.htm) gun related deaths in the USA compared to 333 (http://www.theage.com.au/news/in-depth/a-disarming-cause/2006/04/27/1145861489519.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2) in Australia. So about 88 times the numbers of deaths in total and only 6 times Australia on a per capita basis :eek: , since the population of the USA is over 14x Australia's.

[kona_scrap]

Do you know when these figures were obtained?

A quick google shows that in 2001 there were 29,573 (http://thegreenman.net.au/mt/gun_deaths_in_usa.htm) gun related deaths in the USA compared to 333 (http://www.theage.com.au/news/in-depth/a-disarming-cause/2006/04/27/1145861489519.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2) in Australia. So about 88 times the numbers of deaths in total and only 6 times Australia on a per capita basis :eek: , since the population of the USA is over 14x Australia's.

i thnk this might of been in 1999/2000.... i will double check on monday

[liamo]

i thnk this might of been in 1999/2000.... i will double check on mondayCool. I should have said in my post that I wasn't trying to call you a fibber, just thinking that the numbers could be so out of date that they would be irrelevant. Even 2001 is not exactly recent.