Super D racing in OZ for XC riders?

[Timbers]

Just wondering what you all think of this format of racing? there is currently a high possibility of this style of racing being run at more than one national round this coming summer along with multiple stand alone events in Vic, and possibly ACT and SA, what do you think about this people???

Its getting a huge following in the states from DH and XC riders equally at there national rounds and also in NZ with events like the Brakeburner and even in the UK where they are running Avalanche (endurance DH) events in a rally format where only the DH sections are timed.

I feel it would create a very interesting opportunity to see DH and XC competitors race against each other on courses similar to what we used to see in DH where the likes of Tomac etc would race both disciplines on the same bike before bike technology and courses became more specific.
Also the massively growing amount of trail and all mountain bikes on the market and more importantly on the trails would now suit this style of racing perfectly.

I have nothing against the current format of DH and XC specific disciplines they showcase two very different styles of athletes and bikes very well but when you think about the vast majority of MTB riders in Australia dont race as they are not keen or rich enough to get into DH and dont aspire to lycra up and train 30 hours a week to be competitive in XC so maybe an in between style of racing would lure them into the competitive side of riding and boost club numbers and who knows it could have a flow on effect long term for DH and XC numbers as has been seen with the success of endurance/marathon racing???

For those who are scratching there heads:confused: Super D is a point to point XC race with either a XC group start (sometimes Lemans) or ITT like DH start on a course that is mostly downhill up to 15 minutes in duration and can contain short climbs, events see bikes from lightweight XC race duallys through to smaller DH bikes.:p

[Sethius]

its the format of racing i want to be: id love to sections for all the styles, some real tight work that the XC guys will rock in, shortcuts for the freeriders with NS,gap jumps :p- give the downhillers a chance to save time with real steep rock chutes etc have it varying in terrain and bits of uphill but not too much :p thats my dream kind of race right there. oh and if need be: marshalls are certain points and if you pull a good trick you get time off your run :p

[heatseeker424]

i'd totally ride that.
i extremely like the downhill parts of xc tracks, but don't totally have the balls or money to go on a full dh track properly.

[From.Out.Of.Nowhere]

Just wondering what you all think of this format of racing?
I think this format has great potential, but I'm not sure you needed to create two threads to discuss it.
http://www.farkin.net/forums/showthread.php?t=140927

[VW NUT]

Yeah bring it on... Not full mountain goat or cliff bomber but a mix... Id be in it for sure! But is there anywhere to do it? Mt Beauty maybe???

[Some Guy]

I think this format has great potential, but I'm not sure you needed to create two threads to discuss it.
http://www.farkin.net/forums/showthread.php?t=140927

Perhaps, but on the other hand do that many XC riders read the DH forum?

[Some Guy]

But is there anywhere to do it? Mt Beauty maybe???

Beauty, You Yangs, Albury, Thredbo, Stromlo are a few that come to mind. No doubt there are stacks more.

[cha_cha_]

i understand this is an existing format, but would there be interest in some sort of reverse downhill thing? ie, you race a downhill course in both directions as a an itt and sum the times for an overall result. understandably, the course would need to be designed such that the climb was possible so i guess a lot of courses would require a "B-line" in sections to allow that.

[Sethius]

i understand this is an existing format, but would there be interest in some sort of reverse downhill thing? ie, you race a downhill course in both directions as a an itt and sum the times for an overall result. understandably, the course would need to be designed such that the climb was possible so i guess a lot of courses would require a "B-line" in sections to allow that.

thats just sounds like a night mare :p much prefer the original idea!

[From.Out.Of.Nowhere]

do that many XC riders read the DH forum?

Well I do:)

I understand why he chose to post in both, but I think it may have been better served to have been posted in General where everyone could see it. Of course, I'm not a mod, and both threads are still open so, whatever:cool:

[thecat]

i understand this is an existing format, but would there be interest in some sort of reverse downhill thing? ie, you race a downhill course in both directions as a an itt and sum the times for an overall result. understandably, the course would need to be designed such that the climb was possible so i guess a lot of courses would require a "B-line" in sections to allow that.

We did a "mini D" in that format at one of our club rounds at Lithgow.

Two sections of the Xc trail were linked giving a tight and twist start and more open fast bottom. Nothing extreme. Riders got a best of 2 timed runs down and then an optional timed run back up.

The XCers got to experience the Timed Run format of Dh and pretty much all the DH kids did the up on their DH bikes.

http://www.farkin.net/forums/showthread.php?t=135427

Was a bit of fun.

[akashra]

I don't get it. It sounds like it's just a multi-stage XCT event.

[floody]

Sounds like the sort of event to be dominated by has been DH'ers so perhaps thats a good foil for the domination of enduros and multisport stuff by has-been XCers.

[krizbike]

This sounds good to me. I think you would get new people into it this way - without the severe climbs that might put some new riders off.

The Nationals XC track at Illinbah in QLD last year had some fairly severe and fast downhill sections which were great fun. Also had a lot of bastard climbing (which I don't mind, but would put off newer riders).

So yeah - a course that over all maybe descends a hundred metres, but has ups and downs along the way would be fun.
hmmm not sure how my lightweight scandium hard-tail would like some of the downhills though. Now where did I put that Titus full suspension frame?

Chris

[Elbo]

Beauty, You Yangs, Albury, Thredbo, Stromlo are a few that come to mind. No doubt there are stacks more.
I reckon Albury would be up for it. We've got some good short downhill stuff and a lot of our XC courses are almost all downhill going 1 way, and all within 5 blocks of the main street!

[spinner]

In my opinion , super D should be as long in duration and maximum elevation drop thats possible.

Klingsporn at Buller is the obvious choice , good start / finish areas to stage a race and with a quick clean up the track would be good to go. 20 minutes long , mostly downhill , 1300m elevation drop ?, suitable for XC bikes and 95% singletrack. Open at the top so good for riders to pass and spread out the field. Perfect.

I can think of some other epic locations for a super D , but being in National parks land , could be a bit of an epic to obtain permits. I'm talking 3hrs 40kms 1500m elevation. :cool:

[peanut]

I did the super d event (corc) at majura, it was fun and a good leveler.
Both Xc and downhill represented well in the placings. fun was had by all.

The general conscensus though was there needed to be harder downhill and uphill sections, quite literally a real mix of a dh and xc race course and i would have prefered a timed run, not a mass start.

An example would be at stromlo, go down beginners dh to the pipes(mountain view), climb back up the fireroads opposite the pipes,all the way to the start of the dh.
Go down the dh to the bridge and into the first section of the berm track, turn right and climb up to triple treat and back onto the dh again, merge left and go up the 4x mound and do the 4x track to the finish.
Big time would be made on the climbs by the xc guys, but big time would be made up by the guys on dh rigs in the dh sections. A true mix of xc an dh, which may take some fettling to get right.
Should be around a 20 min race.

[Trevor_S]

We have a DH and XC course very close to each other, I set up an unofficial race in 2007 to combine the two for the first time... seem'd obvious to me ... :) just to test the waters, not much interest was shown. We raced down the DH leg, onto the bitumen for about 1km, then onto the bottom loop of the XC course. A short course. A couple of the younger DH guys had a go, blazed down the DH course, as expected but could not even make it around the XC course :D More a genuine AM race I guess ?

We timed them and let them off at 1minute intervals from the top of the DH course. The DH run is only about 3 mins. I never bothered this year...

[DJninja]

You should definatley do it again, I thought it was a great idea. I got a flat just before the first jump last time:(.

[skybustim]

I like the Brakeburner concept from NZ..Down the sort of DH track (It is a ski field), back up the chairlift and keep going for 5 hours or more. Sppoke to a guy who runs one of the LBS in Queenstown last year and he did it on a Giant Trance, so it would be a good cross over event.
Wouldn't ther be an imbalance between what advantage a DHer would get coming down versus the advantage an XCer gets going back up?

[DaGonz]

Wouldn't ther be an imbalance between what advantage a DHer would get coming down versus the advantage an XCer gets going back up?

If it's a good super D course... yes. I think you'll find most good XC riders would hold their own going back down as well. The courses for Super-D arn't usually full on DH either, they're more All Mountain stylee...

Cheers
Gonz

[Pussa]

I totally dig this idea. I ride and love watching XC, even though its not very spectator friendly, but when I discovered the Avalanche Trophy I was salivating! Can't believe there are only 4/5 stages throughout the year though. Its a great watch and would love the chance to participate in something similar. Would need to upgrade the hardtail though...

[Le Matelot]

Here are the results from the Super D that CORC ran for Tara Llanes benefit in Feb 08. Rando came up with the race format and set the course (then rode in the race).

There were 2 races (with a sausage sizzle in between), with the results being combined on a points basis to determine the category winners from the day. It worked really well and the main thing you can see is that there is no glaring bias for either XC or DH riders in the results - in other words, Rando's race did exactly what it was supposed to do - it provided a pretty level playing field for everyone.

Results are for the first race, the second race, then the combined points for the day.

[Timbers]

Thanks for all the comments and feedback everyone, overall it seems like this format of racing if run correctly should be great fun.

Just to clarify as there understandably seems to be a little confusion, Super D is a point to point XC race that is mostly downhill but not downhill to the point of requiring a downhill specific bike as it can and does have some flat and even small uphill sections, for example Klingsporn/ Delatite at Buller or the new link track at You Yangs (top of ridge down to table tops).

Avalanche races in Europe are longer versions of these (up to 50 minutes) with the exception to this being the stage style races being run in the UK (due to not having high enough elevation points) where only the downhill sections are timed to give an overall result.

The Brakeburner in NZ is a medium to long Super D style track (with flat sections) but is run as a 6 hour enduro that includes using the chairlift to get back to the top to complete as many runs as possible in the allowed race time.

I hope that clears things up a little, no stage style races are in the planning at the moment, but certainly not due to the lack of venues, I can confirm that three events of varied length are confirmed to be held this summer (details to be announced) at perfect locations in Victoria with another potential being raised just this weekend, I think it will take a little time for everyone to get their head around the idea but once they see these upcoming events they will certainly be jumping on the bandwagon.

I think the general (and certainly mine) consensus is as long as possible and as little climbing/flat as possible in the course design will result in the most fun had by competitors, but after watching leading national level XC racers descend the back of Stromlo at the nationals I can assure this format will in no way rule out the competitiveness of non DH racers, its going to be very interesting;)

Stay tuned, and thanks again for the input.