Climbing your AM Bike

[Ivan]

I guess this is a question for those of you with long travel forks on their All-Mountain bikes.

I have 160mm Fox 36R's on my Heckler and I am having difficulty keeping any weight on the front wheel whilst seated and climbing. As soon as the going gets steep I just get to a point where any energy I put through the cranks is just lifting the front wheel rather than moving me forward.

So my question's are:

Which would give the best results in moving my weight forward on the bike...lower bars or a longer stem?
I have a setback seatpost, I assume that getting one without any set back would improve my weight distrubution for cllimbing. Is this assumption correct?
At what length stem does the steering start to feel less direct? I love descending, and have always used short stems in the past.
Am I wasting my time trying to climb efficiently on a bike with 160mm forks? would I just be better off maintaining my setup but swapping my forks for something with height/travel adjustment?



My bar height off the ground is 1035mm. How does yours compare? what length stem are you running?
http://forums.farkin.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=115097&stc=1&d=1220845303

[stickso]

I've got a Reign 0 with 140mm Talas forks but I usually leave it at 140mm all the time. There's a long steep hill at Manly Dam that I struggled with for a while but I found if I moved my arse right forward so I'm perched on the nose of the seat, leaned right down over the bars and let my legs spin away in the granny ring I'd make it up every time.

My stem length is 60mm so no need for anything too long which will suck for descending.

[spudatm]

Save your money. Just look at your positioning. For the most effective try to get your nose over your bars and bend your elbows. It will look like you are trying to kiss your stem but should stop the wheel lifting

[maxwolfie]

Yeah, I have the same problem, but I'm getting better at it... I think it's a matter of making sure your pedal strokes are very fluent, sudden jerks lift the front end quite easily on my Reign.... I lean forward a fair way, and try to maintain steady momentum (i.e. don't speed up, don't slow down)


You might be able to get away with not buying anything?

EDIT: This might sound weird, but try a higher gear...

[Ivan]

but I found if I moved my arse right forward so I'm perched on the nose of the seat, leaned right down over the bars and let my legs spin away in the granny ring I'd make it up every time.



Save your money. Just look at your positioning. For the most effective try to get your nose over your bars and bend your elbows. It will look like you are trying to kiss your stem but should stop the wheel lifting

Yeah, I have the same problem, but I'm getting better at it... I think it's a matter of making sure your pedal strokes are very fluent, sudden jerks lift the front end quite easily on my Reign.... I lean forward a fair way, and try to maintain steady momentum (i.e. don't speed up, don't slow down)

EDIT: This might sound weird, but try a higher gear...

I'm already kissing the stem and and doing indecent acts with the nose of my seat. And, good call on the higher gear, but my legs and knee's just couldn't do it. Can any of you measure your bar height?

[workmx]

I had the same problem with my bike at first.
So I took out some steerer spacers and added a wide flat Salsa bar, which dropped the front end.
My bar height off the ground is about the same as your's, at 1035mm or so.
I also now have some bar-ends.
I almost always climb with my hands on them.
That puts my weight right over the forks.
This pic is a a few months old now, gives you an idea of my set-up.
www.flickr.com/photos/67064475@N00/679754074/in/set-72157594442516328/

[Customjimmy]

I ride a Gemini, with Totems (http://www.farkin.net/forums/showthread.php?t=140339). I have very little setback on the seatpost, and a 45mm Thomson stem, giving a very compact cockpit. By the time you have your seat raised to the high position for climbing, your setback seatpost puts you waayyy back over the rear wheel, and this is where you hit problems. My small cockpit suits me for the technical ups and downs I like to ride, and allows me to climb very well. The trade-off is on fast descents, when I am way off the back of the seat and have to really concentrate on transferring my weight forward (but not too forward!) in tight turns. Try a straight seatpost, you'll be amazed at the difference - but your downhills will suffer a little for it.

[b_S]

I'm all for adjustable height forks, makes a huge difference when climbing such a bike... but to upgrade to them might be overly expensive when a few smaller tweaks (ie seatpost and flat bar) could help you out.

[BM Epic]

This might sound a bit leftfeild,but since using my stomach muscles when climbing i have found i can keep the front end more stable,i have 130 mm revelations on an Epic,so my situation is similair,only i drop my forks when facing a long steep hill,for shorter ones i leave it at 130 and really push with my stomach muscles and spin,maxwolfie is right about spinning a harder gear!
If i dont use the gut muscles my front end wanders everywhere!
I hope this helps as i am not sure whether i am doing the right thing myself,somebody might be able to correct me.
I also know that an epic really isn't suited to an 130mm fork(coil sprung also),but i love the bike and it rides great except a bit of wandering on huge climbs,dropping the forks on the run to 100 mm solves that problem!

[BT180]

I've had the same issue although my forks (Revelations) are 130mm. The afforementioned hill at the Dam sometimes gives me grief when my front wheel wants to lift up, but I noticed that I could reduce the effect by lowering my seat a little bit.

Obviously you need to raise your seat for more efficient climbing, but I found that if I raised it too much I would get the lifting issue pretty severely. You just need to find the balance, and as also suggested; maybe not use the lowest gear.

Here's mine for comparison -

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/6747/img5526rcq2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Ivan]

Thanks. I will definatley be trying a 0 setback post and lower handlebars, before I go changing anything else.

For those of you with 130mm Revelations: When I first got my Heckler I was using 130mm Shermans on the front, and the difference that the extra 30mm of fork height of the 36's has made, would astound you. it does slacken out the bike a lot and move your weight backwards more than you would expect.

[Trevor_S]

Thanks. I will definatley be trying a 0 setback post and lower handlebars, before I go changing anything else.

For those of you with 130mm Revelations:

I have an SC Blur LT 2 coming in the next couple days with a Revelation on the front (height adjustable) so I am watching this thread and will be interested to see how it goes climbing some of the more tech. climbing tracks locally (Keellback springs to mind !) Hopefully before the night race this weekend, so I can give it a work out beforehand !

[cods]

Hi,
From the photo you have posted the bike handle bar to seat height looks about right.
The seat is a long way fwd on the post and looks like it could do with a direct mount post.
However not out by much.
The stem looks short, however again not by much.

Have you check the sag settings on the rear shock ?
If your rear pressure is low, this can cause the front to feel light while climbing.
This can also be exagerated by having the fork a little firm.

[jaseh]

I've had the same issue although my forks (Revelations) are 130mm. The afforementioned hill at the Dam sometimes gives me grief when my front wheel wants to lift up, but I noticed that I could reduce the effect by lowering my seat a little bit.

Obviously you need to raise your seat for more efficient climbing, but I found that if I raised it too much I would get the lifting issue pretty severely. You just need to find the balance, and as also suggested; maybe not use the lowest gear.

Here's mine for comparison -

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/6747/img5526rcq2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Man, ditch that high rise stem and that will fix any problems you have with the front end lifting. Put something with about a 6-10 degree rise on it.

[Matt H]

It happens to me on my enduro, I'm running 140mm 32's at the moment but the main reason I'm dubious on getting 36's is the height of the front end.

I just try and keep the weight forward and try to pedal as "circular" as I can, as in, not surging...

Btw, are those the new xt wheels? How do they go?

[Ivan]

Hi,
From the photo you have posted the bike handle bar to seat height looks about right.
The seat is a long way fwd on the post and looks like it could do with a direct mount post.
However not out by much.
The stem looks short, however again not by much.

Have you check the sag settings on the rear shock ?
If your rear pressure is low, this can cause the front to feel light while climbing.
This can also be exagerated by having the fork a little firm.

Yeah, as soon as I bought the setback post I realised it was not ideal, as it moved my body too far back from the pedals and was effecting my pedalling efficiency. So I have been running the set as far forward as I dare. I bought the setback post as I wanted to lengthen my cockpit a bit, without destroying the handling. I will need to go to a longer stem as the current on is a 65mm.


It happens to me on my enduro, I'm running 140mm 32's at the moment but the main reason I'm dubious on getting 36's is the height of the front end.

I just try and keep the weight forward and try to pedal as "circular" as I can, as in, not surging...

Btw, are those the new xt wheels? How do they go?

I've only had the XT wheels for a week, and it's has been raining for the last couple of days but the feel great. My last wheelset (Hope Pro 2's on dt5.1) was lighter, but the XT's actually feel faster and lighter to ride. I am not impressed with the rear bearing though, as it's already making a lot of noise, so I'm going to have to pull it apart.

The few rides I have been on have been fairly slow though, as I don't have a front brake rotor installed yet (I'm suprisewd no-one noticed that yet).
I am waiting on the 20mm centrlock lockring to arrive at my LBS. It amazes me that a part that is in stock, takes more than a week (8 days and still waiting!!!)to get to my LBS. I could have ordered it OS and got it cheaper and faster. When will the AUS bike industry learn? Rant over

[jaseh]

I am waiting on the 20mm centrlock lockring to arrive at my LBS. It amazes me that a part that is in stock, takes more than a week (8 days and still waiting!!!)to get to my LBS. I could have ordered it OS and got it cheaper and faster. When will the AUS bike industry learn? Rant over

That would be your LBS, Shimano are about the best when it comes to shipping parts, next day for me most of the time. Up to you should be no more than 3-4 days.

The noise in your rear hub could be the freehub, I have heard of a few failing quite quickly.

[Tenpoints]

I used to ride a Scott MC40, which has a seatpost angle rivalling that of DH bikes. And being rather tall, I had it extended a long way which put my weigth waay back. The result? Zero weight on the front wheel when climbing anything remotley steep. I may have had the extreme version of your problem, but I just couldn't adapt myself to neutralise the weight distribution when climbing.
My advice; don't compromise your comfort. If you're going to extend the stem length without moving the seat forward then you'll be more stretched out, which may give you back pains. Then again I ride XC bikes and my back's pretty low anyway, you could probably afford a few centimetres extra cockpit length with an AM bike.

[b_S]

Shimano are about the best when it comes to shipping partsIf they have it in stock, of course...

[Justin Fox]

I definitely play with my bike set-up a shitload more than my riding buddies do.

I spent a long time trying to get the Reign to be a better climber. In the end I found that most of it has to do with technique (as mentioned earlier, get way forward on the saddle tip and chin on the bars + elbows pointing down to the ground). I used to have problems with the front wheel lifting, but that was only the first few weeks of owning the bike. I now make it up everything and then some.

For a while I did find the best climbing set-up ever where I moved the seat very forward on the seat rails and the riser bars pointed/rolled way forward. Whilst this change made a breakthrough for climbing (and power as I was way over the cranks rather than behind them) my downhill capabilties suffered and I went over the bars a few times.

Now I'm very much back to where I was in the start in some ways. The Joplin seatpost has been amazing though, to be able to raise the saddle to XC saddle height for climbs, then at a flick of a lever lower it for AM/DH. It's gold.

[BT180]

Man, ditch that high rise stem and that will fix any problems you have with the front end lifting. Put something with about a 6-10 degree rise on it.

Yeah, it's on the list! :)

[Turner_rider]

Ivan:

Everyone else has commented on the straight post and I agree this is the way to go on any longer travel bike which is also used uphill. Your bar position looks fine to me but you could try a slightly longer stem in combination with the straight post.

I don't know how you ride or how fit you are but technique has a lot to do with it so practice and build up the legs so you can get into a higher gear and pedal slightly slower in the techy stuff and yet get good acceleration when you need it.

Longer travel bikes are amazing fun to climb techy stuff on and attached are some examples of what you can get up if you have good traction, skills and legs (please excuse the Turner content).

[BT180]

^^ That's like trials riding! Instead of trying to ride and pedal up some of the techy stuff, I might slow down and try a combination if riding and 'hopping'.

[cods]

Have you check the sag settings on the rear shock ?
If your rear pressure is low, this can cause the front to feel light while climbing.
This can also be exagerated by having the fork a little firm

[Turner_rider]

^^ That's like trials riding! Instead of trying to ride and pedal up some of the techy stuff, I might slow down and try a combination if riding and 'hopping'.

It is a little bit, but if I can find the video footage there is alot of pedalling technique and gear choice involved.

There are also a reasonable number of places in Australia wihich have similar rocks etc to climb up and over, and while I'm rather crap at them they do help with sorting out getting up the easier long steep techy climbs.

[Ivan]

The Joplin seatpost has been amazing though, to be able to raise the saddle to XC saddle height for climbs, then at a flick of a lever lower it for AM/DH. It's gold.
It's a shame the Joplin and Maverick only come iwith a 20mm setback.
Ivan:

Everyone else has commented on the straight post and I agree this is the way to go on any longer travel bike which is also used uphill. Your bar position looks fine to me but you could try a slightly longer stem in combination with the straight post.

I don't know how you ride or how fit you are but technique has a lot to do with it so practice and build up the legs so you can get into a higher gear and pedal slightly slower in the techy stuff and yet get good acceleration when you need it.

Longer travel bikes are amazing fun to climb techy stuff on and attached are some examples of what you can get up if you have good traction, skills and legs (please excuse the Turner content).


Thanks for the info guys. This is definately more of a setup issue rather than technique, I'm not saying I'm a riding Guru, but I have been at it for 13 years now so I think I've got most of the basic's down. I am well and truly aware that my skill can be improved, and that's why I still hit the trails at every opportunity.

The climbs where I am having trouble are very steep with tight switchbacks, and the 160mm 36R's have slackened the bike out quite a bit. I will try a direct post and mayb e a longer stem, but if the handling still isn't improved by then I may have to try the shermans back on there.