View Full Version : why are the council our worst enemys
Kammy
10-08-2004, 07:03 PM
why are the council our worst enemys?? is half the reason they nock down our aeas for insurance
What is this, Wheel Of Fortune? I see half a sentance there... and a whole heap of places that I know other letters should be.
can I buy a W for WTF?
DJ_Robbie
10-08-2004, 07:18 PM
its probably because people like you sit on forums paying them out all day. And rik, i'll take a W also for what a waste of time posting this garble. meh.
Kammy
10-08-2004, 07:19 PM
fine plz delete
They aren't. Overweight Lazy people are. (See previous thread). :lol: :P
its probably because people like you sit on forums paying them out all day.
Maybe, but I'd at least be able to decipher what they're trying to say.
I culod raed waht he siad jsut fnie. Tkae a cosler look nxet tmie and it mghit not apepar qiute so dffuiclut. But I do argee, culod erveynoe peslae try a ltitle hrdaer.
:lol:
samuel t
10-08-2004, 07:32 PM
cause u destroy there land
sucks to be you, most of the top DJ places in brisbane are council approved or council built, not little kiddie jumps either (see colin makays turndown flip on the cover of 20/20).
you just need to lobby the council, and work with them, heck you pay taxes (or your parents do) in there discricts, it's in their best interest to help you out.
but all of this has been covered before.
roasted
10-08-2004, 08:07 PM
ahhh good old ferny grove...
Councilas aren't dicks
most of them are surprisingly supportive of jumps, but are required to knock them down due to liability.
Avanti_Racing
10-08-2004, 08:21 PM
can I buy a W for WTF?
No, consenants cost money
council is really bad where we are, they only care about our huge shopping center and car parks and stuuf, i mean come on... its ony the biggest center in the southern hemesphere.... sheeeeesz
Glenn
10-08-2004, 08:43 PM
cause u destroy there land
sorry mate but thats my land as well...(in most cases)
i did a bit of an assignment on this sort of thing a while ago, its in the general MTB Discussion or Downhill section just do a search it should help explane a bit about the process of getting things like trails (MTB) aproved and maintained...the councile are only following orders...
johnny
10-08-2004, 08:51 PM
It's not the councils land, the governments money or anything such.
POLITICIANS ARE OUR EMPLOYEES, THEY ARE CHOSEN AND PAID BY US TO MANAGE OUR AFFAIRS IN THE WAY WE SEE FIT. THEY ARE PUBLIC SERVANTS DO NOT EVER FORGET THIS, IT'S OUR LAND OUR MONEY OUR COUNTRY AND OUR LAWS GOVERN THESE THINGS. THEY ARE ONLY THERE TO REGULATE AND MANAGE IT FOR US. IT'S CALLED THE SOCIAL CONTRACT. THEY ARE NOT OUR BOSSES!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
Yes I feel strongly about this.
*edit, yes i agree, MTB dirt, please put a bit more effort into you spelling and grammar. It's hard to give some ones opinions credit when they can't be bothered with their own standards........I should have been a school teacher :?
What is this, Wheel Of Fortune? I see half a sentance there... and a whole heap of places that I know other letters should be.
can I buy a W for WTF?
Hahahahahaha! Worth leaving this thread open just for that!
sammydog
11-08-2004, 07:47 AM
If you think you can go around building stuff anywhere on any land you see fit, then I would be saying that you are your own worst enemy. That sort of attitude is exactly why Mtb's are finding it harder and harder to get legal acccess to riding sites.
Councils will require you to remove anything built that isn't approved, be it dirt jumps, a garage, house, land fill etc. I know how this works, it is my job. Other than the very obvious litigation issue, go and have a read of the various commonwealth and state legislation that your council is bound to opperate under, particularly the planning laws. Have a look what zoning the sites are. Then start having a look at the environmental implications of putting this stuff everywhere. Not just its effect on flora and fauna but the quality of water runoff and erosion caused, these things lead to problems elsewhere.
If you want dirt jumps and stuff, lobby the council, don't just build them and expect them to stay.
Kammy
11-08-2004, 10:01 AM
so how would any1 recommend approaching the concil to try and get along with them and trying to get them to help the mtb community. my mum is writing a letter is this the right thing????
Do a search, land access issues, and letters to the council, have been covered before. There's plenty of information on this forum, just learn to find it.
scblack
11-08-2004, 10:44 AM
MTB DIRT - are you a member of a MTB club? if so, try and get their support. Or maybe join one and find out what they are up to.
It would lend more weight to any submission if you are part of an interested GROUP rather than just an individual. Think of it a little from the council's perspective - they have many submissions about all sorts of stuff, and limited resources - whether that be land or money. If you have many people supporting your case, it will be seen more favourably.
I am not saying to stop your mum writing a letter - that's great, but if you have a club behind you, it will help.
johnny
11-08-2004, 11:00 AM
If you think you can go around building stuff anywhere on any land you see fit, then I would be saying that you are your own worst enemy. That sort of attitude is exactly why Mtb's are finding it harder and harder to get legal acccess to riding sites.
Councils will require you to remove anything built that isn't approved, be it dirt jumps, a garage, house, land fill etc. I know how this works, it is my job. Other than the very obvious litigation issue, go and have a read of the various commonwealth and state legislation that your council is bound to opperate under, particularly the planning laws. Have a look what zoning the sites are. Then start having a look at the environmental implications of putting this stuff everywhere. Not just its effect on flora and fauna but the quality of water runoff and erosion caused, these things lead to problems elsewhere.
If you want dirt jumps and stuff, lobby the council, don't just build them and expect them to stay.
Mate I know what you are talking about and in the most part it makes good sense. I although have a problem with the apathetic and sometimes lazy, corrupt attitude of some councils. Baulko shire being my example. I can't give you any examples as of yet but many of the zoning issues are utter crap. I recently sold some property in Northmead where one side of the street is zoned for 3 story appartments yet the other side of the street is zoned only for single story free standing villas! Thanks very bloody much! This was an ad-hoc response from a council indebted to developers. My real estate agent (not a very reliable source I'll admit) tells me that the only areas zoned for development in that area are the areas that Aldermen have investment properties in.
Another issue: my friend had a tree fall on his car whilst driving down windsor Rd (dead rotten tree, not on a windy day) near Showground road. It was a tree that leant over the road from council property. It wrote off three cars that were in motion on the road, how no one was killed I can't imagine. When he approached the council for some assistance he was told basically to go away, and yes it was pretty much put that way. They said that they cannot be responsible for dead trees that line the roadways. It would have been an uproar if some one was killed, what if it was a family of three kids? Are they going to wait for that to happen before they will ensure our safety? On this issue, I wrote to the council, as a rate payer, to complain about the treatment my friend received. I was told, in writing, that he was not a rate payer to said council and therefore why should he get any assistance from a council to which he does not contribute? I was told rate payers expect a return on their rate payments, obviously road safety must not be one of these returns.... Anyway to make matters worse, a couple of months later, a poor bloke wants to erect a prayer hall in semi-rural Annangrove, something as a rate payer I do not resist. I also wrote to the council to voice my aproval of the prayer hall. Yet as a rate payer I had to help fund an environmental court claim against the plan to build it, that bloody lost anyway. Anyone with half an education could see that it would be passed, but I had to fund it with my rates. Where was the return here???
I know that this doesn't have anything to do with dirt jumps, it just represents the hipocracy that is allowd to flourish at a local level because it only affects a smaller sector of society and is rarely state or nationally news worthy. Bicycle riders of the dirt type are rarely voters, and such have little political communication. That said, Castle Hill does have a BMX track that I appreciate and enjoy.
I guess I just got a little worked up at your response because I know from experience that dealing with councils is always a rigmorole and rarely fair and just. I do not know about the many state and federal restrictions that must hamper your work.
MrPlow
11-08-2004, 04:51 PM
so how would any1 recommend approaching the concil to try and get along with them and trying to get them to help the mtb community. my mum is writing a letter is this the right thing????
Yes that is the way to go. I wrote to our Mayor. Lobbied Council here in Toowoomba.
We now have land, heaps of it for everything.
The main problem is what councillors are on the bench that term. (3 year cycle mostly) all the 'dead wood' was gone last elections here, so it went through like a breeze 8)
junior
11-08-2004, 06:58 PM
so how would any1 recommend approaching the concil to try and get along with them and trying to get them to help the mtb community. my mum is writing a letter is this the right thing????
wat are you goin to say me and my 13YR old buddies want to build some doddgy wood bike obstacles which we will most likely impail ourselfs on :roll:
get over it and ride what you already have.
north shore is for Canada
Kammy
11-08-2004, 07:32 PM
no gromet somwhere we can have fun and do what we love
johnny
11-08-2004, 09:00 PM
so how would any1 recommend approaching the concil to try and get along with them and trying to get them to help the mtb community. my mum is writing a letter is this the right thing????
wat are you goin to say me and my 13YR old buddies want to build some doddgy wood bike obstacles which we will most likely impail ourselfs on :roll:
get over it and ride what you already have.
north shore is for Canada
Wher the hell did he say anything about NS??? He may have been alluding to DJ's or XC! I would assume that it's mostly DJ's that get the council to act negatively towards MTBers.
Johnny, regarding your friend and the falling tree incident. The law does not work that way. If your friend received legal advice he would have been told the correct procedures to follow. The council is liable for all structures/trees etc on council property.
As you can see I've said this before and I'm sick of saying it so I'm just going to quote myself. Council's can't use public liability as an excuse for not building some jumps for you, they've built skateparks for years and have the insurance to cover this sort of stuff.
You can get council approval for jumps if you're willing to be professional and mature in your approach to council.
Brisbane City Council and it's surrounding council's have become veritable jump-building machines in the past 2 years, there are several council approved and maintained dirt-jump parks in and around Brisbane and when the council discovered some of the best trails in the area at Ferny Grove they not only chose NOT to bulldoze them but provided a bobcat and soil to fill the gaps in and make the jumps wider. End result, these trails are now 5 massive tabletops instead of 5 massive doubles, the council has covered their ass for public liability, the riding public is largely happy and everyone co-exists peacefully happily ever after.
Adelaide also has a sweet council-approved dirt jump park, perhaps you could suggest your local council get in contact with Brisbane and Adelaide City Councils to "investigate how these councils are implementing best-practice strategic management initiatives for the construction and maintenance of bicyle jump facilities" or something like that, councils are supposed to learn from what others are doing well.
Edit...the jumps on pages 2 (http://www.farkin.net/image.php?image=4cf925129acaf9eb40aafdbf9e8cb089.j pg), 3 (http://www.farkin.net/image.php?image=413fcba037b97b1c6917cd07a1fed8b0.j pg), 4 (http://www.farkin.net/image.php?image=4bb1a1d1980b6be3fbeab88e89119bd9.j pg) and 5 (http://www.farkin.net/image.php?image=e22665734b121bc218a0dbdd81350888.j pg) of our Rennie Interview (http://www.farkin.net/page.php?p=bf429f3e70dbab800e88ca98fe6d6804) are taken at Ferny Grove, which is the place that was found and tabletopped by the council.
johnny
11-08-2004, 10:26 PM
Johnny, regarding your friend and the falling tree incident. The law does not work that way. If your friend received legal advice he would have been told the correct procedures to follow. The council is liable for all structures/trees etc on council property.
Yeah, I knew this at the time too, I guess I get a little more pissed off about stuff like like that than most people. It's a screwed up system when people will only look after each other when they are forced to by law. It's not a legislative, or institutional issue here, it's culture.
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