Bullit or Gemini

[LZYBOY]

Hi All,

I know we dont like these questions but I could use some help!

Tossing up between either a Bullit or a Gemini (both 03). My intention is for it to be my second bike so I can get more into the downhill, freeride side of things.

Also, is there much difference between the 03 and 04 Bullits?

Thanks heaps everyone!

[jays_5000]

I have heard a lot of good reveiws about Bullits...

I just bought Kirk's 03 and it should be here late this week, early next so I will let you know how it goes!

[mtb_man]

What a nice choice to have to make. If it were me then it would be the Bullit BUT I already own one Santa Cruz and I'm a one eyed Santa Cruz fan. The Bullit comes with a 5th element vs the Fox on the Gemini and I don't think I could face riding a bike with the same name as one of the worst examples of vehicular "design" ever.

No major differences between 03 and 04 Bullits that I can find, Daver might know more...

[intense jonoooo]

The Bullit comes with a 5th element vs the Fox on the Gemini

ah...all gemini's have swingers....watz this bout FOX??? my gemin has a 6way swinger! the gemini is light as! and is smooth as! i personally prefer it to the Bullit! because it the gemini isnt as high sa the bullit!!

:P

[scblack]

I have an 04 Bullit so am pretty biased. Go for the Bullit. I don't know how it is for the Gemini, but the after-sales and warranty from Santa Cruz here is very good(as far as I am aware from other owners-myself not having had any problems).

The 5th Element is made in USA, and has finer tolerances than the Taiwan made Swinger shocks. The height of the Bullit does not bother me, I can rail berms well, and for freeriding/downhilling it is a bit higher out of rock gardens. And the Bullit is light as!

Differences between the '03 Bullit and '04 is the 04 has more gusseting at the headtube (I am pretty sure that was added for 04), my 04 certainly does have the gusseting.

[konasaurus]

wouldnt the Gemini be more downhill specific ??

Where as the Bullit is just an excellent all rounder ??

[Daver]

The Bullit comes with a 5th element vs the Fox on the Gemini

ah...all gemini's have swingers....watz this bout FOX??? my gemin has a 6way swinger! the gemini is light as! and is smooth as! i personally prefer it to the Bullit! because it the gemini isnt as high sa the bullit!!

:P

Your gemini is a gemini DH, not a normal gemini. And based on the equivalent sizing the Gemini is longer and taller (mine is a large- you forgot that). And only some 04 Geminis have swingers- the 04 900 has a fox, and the 2000 and 3000 have swinger 4 ways. The 03 geminis (900- 1000) run fox rc's whilst the 2000 was running a romic. The 02s all had foxes.

Weight wise they are about the same. Strength is probably in the Bullits favour, yet Cannondale has better customer service and "warranty" set up. Stiffness they'd be the same, and geometry is more aggressive (read better for DH) on the bullit than the stock gemini.

I have a couple of gripes with my bullit- namely the shock, dropout/hanger and the geometry/sizing. They feel to short (medium) or too high (large) for me at 6 foot 1.

[Broken200]

I didn't think that there were any differences between 03/04 aside from the sticker kit. As long as you get the Bulit with the revised/increased head tube gusseting (early 03 onwards?) you should be fine. Bare in mind that if you do happen to break a Bullit you can apparently get a half price upgrade to the next model up in the range rather than a replacement frame if you like, not that you will probably ever break a Bullit. The Bullit also has clamp-up bearing mounts for the rear swing arm which in my opinion is much better than press-fit. I read a review in MTBUK that found with a Gemini the pivot started to creak quite a bit after a while. They also commented that riding in rain/mud that you often do over there no doubt contributed to the problem. However, Australia is not so much muddy as it is dusty which can get into bearing mounts and make them loosen up and sqeak like my old AC2 did.
Some other things:
Gemini = 1.5 steerer, 03 only had fox rear shock, relatively light, adjustable travel, ISCG mount, make sure you check frame for the problem they had with tube thickness, were cracking on downtube somewhere, they issued a recall notice in MBA to let owners know.

Bullit = 5th, strong as, pretty light/simple, 1 1/8" steerer only, no ISCG, good BB clearance but do sit up pretty high on larger frames also depending on fork choice.

I made up a new shock mount to lower my Bullit BB/ride height and slacken my headtube angle. http://www.farkin.net/forums/album_thumbnail.php?pic_id=10227 (http://www.farkin.net/forums/album_pic.php?pic_id=10227)

[Daver]

Differences between the '03 Bullit and '04 is the 04 has more gusseting at the headtube (I am pretty sure that was added for 04), my 04 certainly does have the gusseting.

The gusset was added in 2002. 5

[timduncan]

I wish I could have the money to toss up between those to ....

I like Cannondale The 04 bullit looks sic

final answer: BULLIT :twisted:

[Kreaky]

BULLIT!! one of the guys i was riding with on sunday had a Gemini and i had a shot and it feels a lot less stable (SPELLING??) and i couldn't corner very well.

GO THE BULLIT!!!

[timduncan]

doesnt it depend on what parts u put on it eg. forks :? r we talking about cedrics frame :?

[LZYBOY]

Thanks for the great input guys ... I'm tossing up between the two bikes in the For Sale section ... unfortunately don't have enough money to buy brand specimens of either! :(

I'm swaying towards the Bullit at the moment but only the non replaceable hanger is a bit of a downer but I got to sell my Specialized Enduro first.

Anyone interested in a 03 Specialized Enduro Expert ... will post an ad as soon as the rain stops ... couldn't be bother going out to the garage to take piccies! Too wet! :)

[Benana]

i for 1 would prefer a bulit but i have heard some bad stuff about the bullit and the geminiis not bad so id go for the gemini(which gemini is it?)04 bulit is basicly the same as the old 1

[LZYBOY]

Care to elaborate on the bad stuff? The bikes Im looking at are both 03's.

[lotec]

non replaceable hanger = a LOT stronger than a replaceable one thhat is DESIGNED to break when theyre hit, non replaceable ones arnt so it takes a hell of a lot to break one and even if you do you can have a replaceable hanger made up for it then daver had one made by stan at BA for his bullit think it was under $200 and it took a hell of a long time for him to break the first one

[dunk]

non replaceable hanger = a LOT stronger than a replaceable one thhat is DESIGNED to break when theyre hit, non replaceable ones arnt so it takes a hell of a lot to break one and even if you do you can have a replaceable hanger made up for it then daver had one made by stan at BA for his bullit think it was under $200 and it took a hell of a long time for him to break the first one

Great $200 to replace what would normally be a $35 hanger :roll:

[parallax]

Great $200 to replace what would normally be a $35 hanger :roll:
Wow. I didn't think anything in this sport could cost less than $50. :?

[scblack]

Dunk wrote:

Great $200 to replace what would normally be a $35 hanger

But the non-replaceable hanger will take many hits that would break a replaceable hanger, meaning it will probably never need replacement.

[dunk]

What would you rather replace, a hanger, and be out of action for a day, or a frame? Non replaceable hangers, in my opinion should be a thing of the past.

What reason is there not to have a replaceable hanger on a frame apart from it being cheaper to produce?

Ask Daver it'd easy enough to break a non replaceable hanger.

[scblack]

I know Daver broke his Bullit rear derailleur hanger - be interesting to know how - please update us if you can Daver. And I've got a 04 Bullit, so am happy with the non-replaceable hanger.

Why do I think non-replaceable is better?
1.Solid - the dropout on the Bullit is about 9-10mm thick all the way through. It's going to take a lot to break that. A lot.
2.Anchor for the derailleur - replaceable derailleur hangers are about 4-5mm thick, and about half that where they screw in place. That lack of thickness at a critical point for gear changing has to mean sloppy gear changing to some extent. Especially as they get older and the metal fatigues.
3.If any crash breaks a replaceable hanger, it is likely to smash the derailleur as well. The replaceable hanger is supposed to save the derailleur - I don't see the point when the derailleur will smash anyway.
4.The point I said in earlier post - a non-replaceable hanger will take hits again and again that would break a replaceable one - meaning it will probably never need replacing at all.

[Daver]

I know Daver broke his Bullit rear derailleur hanger - be interesting to know how - please update us if you can Daver. And I've got a 04 Bullit, so am happy with the non-replaceable hanger.

what else would you like me to say? I crashed and snapped it off. I was happy with it until it snapped off, and we discovered that it would be$1000 for a replacment swingarm.

Why do I think non-replaceable is better?
1.Solid - the dropout on the Bullit is about 9-10mm thick all the way through. It's going to take a lot to break that. A lot.
yeah. It took a log going at about 10km/h.
2.Anchor for the derailleur - replaceable derailleur hangers are about 4-5mm thick, and about half that where they screw in place. That lack of thickness at a critical point for gear changing has to mean sloppy gear changing to some extent. Especially as they get older and the metal fatigues.
the one i have now (from a cannondale gemini) is wider than the hanger was on the bullit. When they get older you just pay your $50 and get a new one, bearing in mind that by the time it fatigues you will have already worn out at least 2 derailleurs from spring tension.
3.If any crash breaks a replaceable hanger, it is likely to smash the derailleur as well. The replaceable hanger is supposed to save the derailleur - I don't see the point when the derailleur will smash anyway.
True. But on a solid hanger (ie built in) the derailleur is effectively going to be pushed between 2 harder objects, snapping it anyway.
4.The point I said in earlier post - a non-replaceable hanger will take hits again and again that would break a replaceable one - meaning it will probably never need replacing at all.
Until you crash on it and need a new swingarm. For $1000. Thats 6 Ultegra derailleurs (roughly). Is it worth it?

Don't get me wrong- I love my bullit, and i reckon it's better than a regular gemini. But it sure as hell ain't perfect.

By the way, the modification cost $120 plus the hangar at bike addiction- massive props to Stan at BA for sorting it all out.

[scblack]

Oh well, I've got one anyway, so lets just hope it doesn't break. That's the chance I have taken, and I'm satisfied with my decision - the Bullit is a great bike.

Out of interest - has anyone else had a Dropout break on a Bullit? Wonder what the numbers are then? Not breaks elsewhere on the swingarm, cause that will happen on any bike, but just the Dropout?

[Daver]

I think there are seriously only about 5 on Farkin, and i'm the only one who broke one. When i was speaking to Andy@SCB Aust (neezy) he said that he normally gets back around 5 swingarms a year which get broken (3 on the dropout normally and some on the weld). Dealers also have a tool that straightens the bent dropout ( I beleive it's called an adjustable Spanner) which fixes on most frames. I'd happily ride a bullit, but i just think that Neezy's pricing is a bit much. $1000 for a swigarm from a $2650 frame??? Bit much then... Seriously though, the Bullit is a great bike.

[LZYBOY]

I have just seen the pics of the single pivot 05 Ironhorse bikes (Yakuza range?) and is it just my untrained eyes or do they look a lot like the Bullits but without the bent TT?

I might wait a buy one of these babies new!! :)