Oh the wicked web we weave Mr. Howard......

[johnny]

I believe that this is EXACTLY what the 43 signatories to the letter for truth in government were lamenting about.

You can lie to some of the people, some of the time. But you can't lie to all of the people, all of the time.......

History will see Mr. Howard as a manipulative, party politician whose only goal is to surpass Menzies' reputation as a conservative monarchist that upheld Australias traditional, British conservative line, and darling of the elites.

Sad little man in my eyes!


http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/08/16/1092508372460.html?oneclick=true

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/08/16/1092508347121.html

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/08/16/1092508317706.html

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/08/16/1092508374990.html

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,10468762%255E601,00.html

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,10468762%255E601,00.html

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,10468776%5E2702,00.html

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,10456121%255E601,00.html

And these are just the links from the last two days in the Sydney Hearald and the Australian only!!!

[wombat]

Eh, $10 says he gets in again.

Am I lacking faith in the greater public?

[nitwit]

You need to start your election campaign now Chris. :lol:
Have faith wombat, johnny well save us. :lol:

[Dhfactory]

Yep he will get in again, cause i pay for it.
And thank god for that.

-Sean

[sockman]

whats that gunna do to the future of mountain bikin tho?

[dunk]

Can we stop insulting the rest of us decent men by referring to Howard as Mr? ala Ben Haper :wink:

[bazza]

yeah i can really see him winning it again. the opposition is doing such a shithouse job. either that or the media are just giving them heaps. damnnnnnn media. he just doenst seem to have the confidence and the clarity that little johnny boy has. it sucks. we can just hope for a miracle. either that or howard retires and for some reason terry mcenroth (queensland pollie) becomes PM. now that would be cool.

[dunk]

....howard retires and for some reason terry mcenroth (queensland pollie) becomes PM. now that would be cool.

Don't forget if Howard retires we are more than likely getting Costello :evil:

[sockman]

if johnny retires then petter costello will take his place then labour will win but it dont look like hes leavin and neway like i sed b4 whats it gunna do to mountain bikin?? coz afterall this is a mtb forum :wink:

[sockman]

oh and alsoho cares bout polititions neway all they do is cost us money and go to war with arabs :lol:

[dunk]

oh and alsoho cares bout polititions neway all they do is cost us money and go to war with arabs :lol:

YOU should care, as they run YOUR country affecting YOUR life and the quality of YOUR future. :roll:

[sockman]

thats tru but how many good decisions have the government (that were good 4 u) lately?
(well the free trade is sweeeeeeeet)

[dunk]

not many at all, and I include the FTA in that.... that's why you need to get involved, get active and make educated choices, and educate others. Whats the saying? Bad things happen when good men do nothing. :wink:

[sockman]

i think ill go to thge corner now :cry:

[dunk]

No need to stand in a corner, thats what THEY want you to do. Give in to their desires when they should be doing our bidding, so stand tall and proud in the centre of the room and shout "I AM SOCKMAN!!!" :D

[Grip]

Gee... the top subject for a thread that's likely to turn to glue and get locked pretty quick?????


THIS ONE!


But until then I'll add to it.

No. 1 - I'm embarrassed to have Howard as our PM
No. 2 - There's no such thing as a "half-truth"
No. 3 - Have you ever realised that despite being such a little man (oh God in so many ways!) Howard seems to have mastered the art of looking down his nose at just about everyone? (except for George W of course... hard to look down your nose at someone when it's buried up that someone's clacker!)
No. 4 - Unfortunately Labour isn't much better and I'll probably vote for the Greens... bottom-line reason? Well it's not much good having a government if you've got nowhere to live.

OK you howling pack of dogs... I've tossed a bone... go get 'em! :lol:

[cam-o]

Grip,
I agree with you on all points except #4.
Here in sunny Canberra the greens primary focus seems to be
stopping us mountain bikers from having any forest to play in.

[wombat]

I'm not sure which way I'll vote at this stage, but if polling was tommorrow I'd probably vote green. As much as I hate the idea of losing riding spots I believe there are bigger issues of importance than where we can ride our bikes.

[RCOH]

"I voted once, but I didn't win...I'll never vote again" - Mark Adkins

[parallax]

It's a sorry state of affairs when people are casting votes on the basis of having shite two major parties.

Looks like it'll be a good year for the Greens. Garrett jumped ship at the wrong time.

[Malfuctioning Eddie]

Whats the saying? Bad things happen when good men do nothing.
It goes "the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

So i don't think it really is relevant here. I stand by my statemen that john Howard ahs been one of our best PM's ever. He has done wonders for our economy, home ownership is far, far etter than it was when Keating was in. Though I'll admit I don't like choice he makes, I don't think it's possible to agree with someone, even your PM, in every situation.

That being said, I am FOR the war in Iraq, they are an evil society and they have oil. I want cheaper petrol for my flame thrower so I'll support that war if I think it may lower costs in someway (though I dunno if GB would let us at the oil once he steals it all.
I also love the GST and I like the idea of the FTA (at least the parts I noticed could be advantage: ME).

As for the Greens I am TOTALLY against them because of their position on Mountain bikers. The Greenies in my area are the same people who try an shut down all the local trails.

[Cave Dweller]

Malfuctioning Eddie,

The ecomony would be in the same state that it is in now if labour was in power, and if liberals were in power in the late 80's we would still of had the rescession. Incase you hadn't noticed, or can't remember, a large majority of the world was in a rescession (high interest rates) at that time, i find it hard to belive this was all caused by keating :roll:

Alot of the so called "good" economy has been a direct spin off from america doing so well the last couple of years. Every economy in the world is tied to the USA, if they do well you do well. If "america sneezes we catch a cold" as the saying goes.

Interest rates will rise this year and next year regardless of who is in power due a rise in GLOBAL interest rates, where most of the lending money comes from. I am sick of the liberals using that as a scare tatic, "don't vote for labour otherwise interest rates will go up", what a load of scare mongering.

As for Howard, for a man who belives in god, he is going straight to hell for all the bullshit "half truths" he has told during his time as PM.

Matt.

[Malfuctioning Eddie]

You could be right, but I still think Howard has imporved our economy. I think you're also right that intrest rates will go up, but I would say 10-1 we are heading into another rescession anyway.
As for labour being in power, we wouldn't have the GST if they were in, one of the things I praise Howard for.
Anyway, my opinions, not anyones elses.

[Cave Dweller]

In some ways i think the GST was a/is a good idea. The main objective of the GST was to reduce the amount of complicated wholesale taxes and replace with a POS tax, and to also try and stop the cash economy, this was a good idea. Also, If you own your own business it is probably good having the GST as you have an extra 10% of cash flow for your business.

But in general i think it failed and the tax burdon was pushed further onto low and middle income earners, while at the same time howard was giving backhanders to companies and rich people by lowering company taxes and giving substantal benifits to those who already had money (through negative gearing etc).

Basically i think it failed and low and middle income earners got shafted (as usual) are paying more tax while the rich got to pay less.

[Carlin]

But Howard said there woud "never ever" be a GST!

He also said he would retire, and that children were thrown overboard, and that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction... anyone see a pattern here?

[debase]

get over it, no leader of a country will ever do what YOU want them to do, they do whats in their interests, if you dont like it and youre not gonna lump it, move to san quantin

[RCOH]

get over it, no leader of a country will ever do what YOU want them to do, they do whats in their interests, if you dont like it and youre not gonna lump it, move to san quantin

The whole point of a democracy is that the leader does what you want (you being the collective who voted them in anyway). The leader of a democracy is the people's representative.

And where the fuck is san quantin?

[debase]

nowadays democracy isnt far off dictatorship, face it

[Daver]

Oh Fuckit.

Notice that Mike Scarfton has effectively lied buy bringing this out? He has previously claimed that it didn't happen yet now he is attempting to whip up another story that it did? Just another case of the blind leading the blind. The media in this country is an absolute crock of shit- You can get more factual reporting from a bunch of limbless blind mokeys.

Oh and what's more?

Labour would have you beleive that Private education is taking up more money than Public. Given that of the taxpayer money that is spent on education, some 80% goes back to public education from the taxpayers (ie the people of whom some pay for school fees) pocket whilst only 20% go to private schools. It costs more for taxpayers to educate a student publically than privately, so deal with it.

Labour couldn't organise a piss-up at a brewery, let alone the economy. Tayloring plans to suit the unions doesn't work. Look at how F**ked it was last time they were in power - high interest rates, loss of jobs, excessive taxes...

[Daver]

I am FOR the war in Iraq, they are an evil society and they have oil. I want cheaper petrol for my flame thrower so I'll support that war if I think it may lower costs in someway (though I dunno if GB would let us at the oil once he steals it all.

Bearing in mind that we hardly get any oil from Iraq (apparently ~2%)

[johnny]

nowadays democracy isnt far off dictatorship, face it

I do face it, but I won't capitulate to it as you seem to. Have you ever thought that our lives might be a bit better if we didn't stand for it?

We pay these dudes to represent us and our wants/needs, not to bloody lie to us and then label us the "vocal minority", "Fringe element" or "the mob"! What would you do to an employee if he started telling the boss what to do?

Voting patterns such as swings to minor parties (greens, democrats etc) are usually taken as a protest over the mainstream parties. When this happened in the eighties Labor recognised this and proceeded to court the green vote by altering it's policies. You don't always have to change the person, sometimes you can change the way they act.

BTW, the greenies that shut down riding tracks are the smaller more reactive element of the Green party. This is evident in any policy statement issued by the federal members of the party. Nowhere on Andrew Wilkies flyer (he is in my electorate, the same as Howards) does it mention anything about bush trails and conservation, that seems to be more of a state concern.

[johnny]

Oh Fuckit.

Notice that Mike Scarfton has effectively lied buy bringing this out? He has previously claimed that it didn't happen yet now he is attempting to whip up another story that it did? Just another case of the blind leading the blind. The media in this country is an absolute crock of shit- You can get more factual reporting from a bunch of limbless blind mokeys.

Oh and what's more?

Labour would have you beleive that Private education is taking up more money than Public. Given that of the taxpayer money that is spent on education, some 80% goes back to public education from the taxpayers (ie the people of whom some pay for school fees) pocket whilst only 20% go to private schools. It costs more for taxpayers to educate a student publically than privately, so deal with it.

Labour couldn't organise a piss-up at a brewery, let alone the economy. Tayloring plans to suit the unions doesn't work. Look at how F**ked it was last time they were in power - high interest rates, loss of jobs, excessive taxes...

I refer you to the massive amount of material, some covered in this thread that shows how high interest rates were a GLOBAL pattern and not linked to federal leadership. Governments can usually only make a 2-3% difference on interest rates (neglecting radical changes such as introducing completely new taxation systems or completely altering current practices and I'm talking the kind that you find in Sth America) when it is pinned so closely to the US dollar and oil prices.

To say that labor is responsible for high interest in the eighties is just like saying that labor was responsible for the high rates in the US, Great Briton, Canada, New Zealand, Germany France etc. experienced at the same time as us. Clearly not even possible........

[MrPlow]

hmm, I thought History does show labour = recession on more than one occasion?

To put it bluntly Labour looks after the small picture, liberal tends to look after the bigger picture and the small picture takes care of itself.
I don't like talking politics, but I got to say I fear for my own business if Labour, with it's short sitedness and crap policies, comes into power :?

As for Johny, put anybody in any power positions and you will get lies, hatred, etc. Human nature. At least his speaches aren't as utter bullshit as his mate Bush.. http://www.triplej.abc.net.au/todaytoday/listen/default.htm d/l the second mp3. :lol: :lol:

[Daver]

hmm, I thought History does show labour = recession on more than one occasion?

To put it bluntly Labour looks after the small picture, liberal tends to look after the bigger picture and the small picture takes care of itself.
I don't like talking politics, but I got to say I fear for my own business if Labour, with it's short sitedness and crap policies, comes into power :?


AMEN Brother.

[johnny]

hmm, I thought History does show labour = recession on more than one occasion?

To put it bluntly Labour looks after the small picture, liberal tends to look after the bigger picture and the small picture takes care of itself.
I don't like talking politics, but I got to say I fear for my own business if Labour, with it's short sitedness and crap policies, comes into power :?

As for Johny, put anybody in any power positions and you will get lies, hatred, etc. Human nature. At least his speaches aren't as utter bullshit as his mate Bush.. http://www.triplej.abc.net.au/todaytoday/listen/default.htm d/l the second mp3. :lol: :lol:

Yes but the problem is that Howard supports his mate Bush even when he says and does stupid things!!

I don't claim to know much about the economy, it's a subject I have yet to complete. But if you want to look at shortsited policies, I vote that supporting a neo-conservative idealistic republican party that uses pre-emptive invasion is one that surely outweighs a dodgy domestic policy!!

You can have the most successful business ever, but if war comes, you'll be in more trouble than just bankruptcy!!

And let's not forget the Kyoto protocol either. Won't sign because it's bad for business while sacrificing long term global health and sustainable practices for shot term support from the US, now that's as myopic as it gets!!

[wombat]

now that's as myopic as it gets!!

Finally, a mtb reference! :P

[S.]

now that's as myopic as it gets!!

Finally, a mtb reference! :P

Who won that anyway? Lenosky?

Oh also (all IMO of course):
Howard = bad
Latham = bad
Greens = really bad
Democrats = you're not serious are you
Shooters' party = less bad than the alternatives

[Daver]

Oh also (all IMO of course):
Howard = bad
Latham = bad
Greens = really bad
Democrats = you're not serious are you
Shooters' party = less bad than the alternatives

pfft. you forgot to mention the king of all parties-
the 4 day weekend party!

[wombat]

now that's as myopic as it gets!!

Finally, a mtb reference! :P

Who won that anyway? Lenosky?
If you mean Back to the Forest, I think it was Lenosky.

[®ider]

Vote for the puppet on the left or for the puppet on the right

[johnny]

now that's as myopic as it gets!!

Finally, a mtb reference! :P

Who won that anyway? Lenosky?

Oh also (all IMO of course):
Howard = bad
Latham = bad
Greens = really bad
Democrats = you're not serious are you
Shooters' party = less bad than the alternatives

Any ideas on who they give their preferences to?

As Stinky said, "meet the new boss, he's the same as the old boss" The Who, won't get fooled again. A song all about replacing a dictator via revolution/military methods, only to have another dictator to replace him. I listened to this song a number of times the day Iraq was introduced to "shock and awe".

*edit, one question though stinky, If they're both puppets, who's pulling the strings?

[MrPlow]

You can have the most successful business ever, but if war comes, you'll be in more trouble than just bankruptcy!!
aparently war is one of the best ways to kick start your economy.

[johnny]

You can have the most successful business ever, but if war comes, you'll be in more trouble than just bankruptcy!!
aparently war is one of the best ways to kick start your economy.

Provided it happens in another country.......

[danv]

You can have the most successful business ever, but if war comes, you'll be in more trouble than just bankruptcy!!
aparently war is one of the best ways to kick start your economy.
And then if it gives you access to a means of securing it for the short term future, pwoah!

Apparently (this could be utter BS), America has a history of involving itself in a related conflict, whenever some type of its supplys are threatened. WW2 and Japan suspending exports of something (oil or iron maybe? can't remember.) to the US come to mind.

As for Howard, he is a massive dickhead, at the head of a bunch of other dickheads, and the sooner they all fuck off the better.

Latham is a massive tool, and the Labor polocies aren't much better, but he seems alot more harmless than Howard, and I think the values he portrays, whilst being simplistic, retarded and engineered for popularity (what pollies aren't I guess), are better.

edit - grammar

[Disco]

i think the last government always screws the next one over. look here in WA, The last liberal government just before the election blew a lot of taxpayers money on a stupid friggin "Bell Tower" and now this labour government has no rollover money from the last financial year. s they have less to spend. makes them look worse. Liberals are voted in again.

Little Mike

[dumb 01]

As for Howard, he is a massive dickhead, at the head of a bunch of other dickheads, and the sooner they all fuck off the better.

Latham is a massive tool, and the Labor polocies aren't much better, but he seems alot more harmless than Howard, and I think the values he portrays, whilst being simplistic, retarded and engineered for popularity (what pollies aren't I guess), are better.

generally i agree.
Howard is a dickhead, but Labor havent to put forward thoughtful, impacting policies/campaign. Still i cant wait to vote out Howard because i'ld much rather see Latham in.