Uday's Ferrari

[matty_2004]

Call me what you want, but being the car fanatic that i am - i found this the most upsetting thing to come out of the war in Iraq.

Uday's (Saddams son) Ferrari 550 Maranello:

Before:

http://ultra.cto.us.edu.pl/pub/Multimedia/Pictures/Cars/Ferrari/550maranello/1999.550maranello.01.jpg

After: Stolen, Stripped, Then Burnt !

http://www.noisevibrationandharshness.com/pics/ferrari4.jpg

http://www.noisevibrationandharshness.com/pics/ferrari3.jpg

http://www.noisevibrationandharshness.com/pics/ferrari2.jpg

http://www.noisevibrationandharshness.com/pics/ferrari6.jpg

http://www.noisevibrationandharshness.com/pics/ferrari5.jpg

http://www.noisevibrationandharshness.com/pics/ferrari7.jpg

http://www.noisevibrationandharshness.com/pics/palace.jpg



Who the hell could do this to such a work of art- Where's the Respect !?!?!

Cheers,

-Matty J

[johnny]

Eat the rich.

[Dim]

OMG thats terrible...such a nice car down the drain...man that really sucks..i would of looked after it for him

[nitwit]

Eat the rich.
Yeah, fuck the rich and their extravaggant possesions

[johnny]

Just don't touch the bike.

[matty_2004]

Well Sadam and his sons had a collection of exotic cars (Like 40 of them) including Ferrari's & Lambos. . .i hope they didn't all end up like this !!!

[matty_2004]

Yeah, fuck the rich and their extravaggant possesions


Money aside, just because you don't own it - would you go and destroy such a rare and awesome car? Think of the effort put into building something like that.

You just don't go stripping and burning Ferraris.

[lotec]

and what kind of a dickhead steals a ferrari just to strip and burn it anyway, excuse me... hello new car :D

[nitwit]

Money aside, just because you don't own it - would you go and destroy such a rare and awesome car? Think of the effort put into building something like that.

You just don't go stripping and burning Ferraris.
No i wouldnt destroy it, i'd just steal it and thrash the shit out of it. If i was able to steal it that is. I like Ferraris, but there is now way i would spend that much money on a car.

[matty_2004]

Alot of people wouldn't pay that much for a car (even though i would), but remember, these wankers got the car for nothing - and still wrecked it.

[johnny]

Can't see ol' Mustafa getting to far driving a car like that, in a city full of people with big guns.

[floody]

I've seen this on a number of forums now...

Its nothing compared to the amount of cars belonging to Odai which Saddam had torched a few years back as a punishment for skimming money....

It does shit me a little though. Firstly, I've no doubt if they had shipped it on a transport plane to a nearby safe base (maybe Europe), there would be a prestige Auction house just itching to get their hands on this, and a charity auction could have pulled big $$ which could have gone back into Iraq for good work...Collectors love shit with this sort of infamous provenance.
Secondly, this wasn't a backlash by Iraqis or anything, it was stripped by AMERICAN SOLDIERS. As if they should be pissing about doing things like this, and also, I would bet anything valuable and easily transported (bolt on engine parts, brake calipers, hanging panels, interior parts, wheels,exterior trim) would most likely not be destroyed and probably will be in the hands of American Ferrari parts wholesalers/dismantlers by now...

For the car whores like me, there is an F40 and a 90's Porsche 911 in the same complex apparently, but they were at the time of those photos untouched, just dirty. Americans also ran a TANK through a parking garage full of prestige cars, and the bomb which hit Odai's palace took out the garage there which was also full of prestige vehicles..

[olsson]

Mmm its a Ferrari, so what?
A car is a car, yeah I am a HUGE car fan. But still, I dont think Ferrari care that there car is gone, They got there money so I dont think their complaining. Yes I know we'd all like one, but whats the point of owning on in Australia, you'd only be able to get the stupid thing into second and then all you'll be doing is idoling still.

Its just a Ferrari might I add..

[matty_2004]

You're into cars, yet you still can't appreciate the effort put into a car like that?

[johnny]

Mmm its a Ferrari, so what?
A car is a car, yeah I am a HUGE car fan. But still, I dont think Ferrari care that there car is gone, They got there money so I dont think their complaining. Yes I know we'd all like one, but whats the point of owning on in Australia, you'd only be able to get the stupid thing into second and then all you'll be doing is idoling still.

Its just a Ferrari might I add..

What do you drive?

[floody]

Just for the record, Ferrari is actually a Baseball cap and Poster manufacturing company (I believe they also dabble in mugs, G-strings and so on) who turn out a few promotional vehicles to help sell their main product lines.

[manny24]

Just for the record, Ferrari is actually a Baseball capand Poster manufacturing company (I believe they also dabble in mugs,G-strings and so on) who turn out a few promotional vehicles to helpsell their main product lines.

ha, lol!! i hear its actually a company out of china, mass producingall this shit in sweat shops, these promo hand built cars are just madeby contractors in italy :D

[Cave Dweller]

It's just a car, whats the problem again??




:D

[LTR]

Matty,
You do realise that people got paid to make this car, all the effort that was put in, went straight through as money to a bank account. The workers at Ferrari dont run as a charity or anything, so its not dead work.

BTW, Ferrari's are WAY to mass produced. Ive seen over 5 different 550's in Melbourne alone. Sif you would bother joining the posse!

:D

[toodles]

Its just a Ferrari might I add..

You've got to check out level of manufacturing on one of those things to appreciate it. They make top of the line "sports" cars from the bigger players seem like matchbox toys. Like comparing a Foes Mono to a Norco Team Dh - both very capable but the level of detail and craftsmanship doesn't even come close.

PS - now a McLaren would have been a tragedy....

[LordNikon]

That engine, the brake rotors and most of the panels are salvagable... just.

*runs off to Iraq to find free Ferrari parts*

:cool:

[scblack]

Just for the record, Ferrari is actually a Baseball cap and Poster manufacturing company (I believe they also dabble in mugs, G-strings and so on) who turn out a few promotional vehicles to help sell their main product lines.

Floody - you hit it right on the nose!!! Dead right.

Ferrari production is self limited to about four thousand cars per year, and lets say they're worth about US$150,000, so thats total sales value of US$600m. Thats 3/4 of fuck-all for a manufacturer.

Michael Schumacher in about 2000, had a royalty deal on the caps, due to a German finance company sponsorship, and he alone, earned in the region of US$50m in that one year. Just for his royalty deal. Then imagine the total sales of caps, then add shirts, flags, mugs, towels and all the other products they sell Ferrari branded.

Ferrari is a VERY large business, they just sell a few cars as well.

[RCOH]

Just get a Skyline, they look similar enough.

[scblack]

Just get a Skyline, they look similar enough.

I'd imagine there are less 20 year olds killing themselves in Ferrari's.

I don't know how it could be enforced, but young people really shouldn't be driving such powerful cars, as they do kill themselves too often. And I have personal experience on this.

[RCOH]

I'd imagine there are less 20 year olds killing themselves in Ferrari's.

I don't know how it could be enforced, but young people really shouldn't be driving such powerful cars, as they do kill themselves too often. And I have personal experience on this.

Not just in powerful cars...My brother rolled his Kombi yesterday, & now he has nowhere to live.

[Cave Dweller]

I'd imagine there are less 20 year olds killing themselves in Ferrari's.

I don't know how it could be enforced, but young people really shouldn't be driving such powerful cars, as they do kill themselves too often. And I have personal experience on this.

How about instead of restricting young drivers you restrict everyone. Give me one good reason why anybody should own a car that can go faster the 110km/h? And while we are at it everybody should have their drivers liscense retested every 5 years, i am absolutly amazed at the amount of bad OLDER drivers out there, people over 30 who just shouldn't be allowed on the road.

[S.]

How about instead of restricting young drivers you restrict everyone. Give me one good reason why anybody should own a car that can go faster the 110km/h? And while we are at it everybody should have their drivers liscense retested every 5 years, i am absolutly amazed at the amount of bad OLDER drivers out there, people over 30 who just shouldn't be allowed on the road.

Why should anyone own a car that can go faster than 110? Because it's completely unsafe to overtake with a car that CAN'T exceed the speed limit. If someone is sitting on 107 and you want to overtake because you're sitting behind him/her, it will take you a LONG time on the wrong side of the road to get past. That's just dangerous. There's also the possibility that people drive the car on private land (racetracks or farms or whatever). Not to mention the fact that NT has NO speed limit in non-built-up areas, so why should the car be limited? Other than that, how about "fuck off and leave people alone". The whole "restrict everyone because it suits me" mentality is fucked up, stereotypical left-wing stupidity. I thought you were above that.

As far as licence retesting, sounds good in theory, but I don't think it'd do much since a lot of bad driving is caused by laziness and lack of vehicle control, neither of which are tested in driving tests (down here at least). The only thing people get done for on tests is technicalities - who's gonna run a red light on their test?

Education is the key, not restriction. People will always break laws, but they're much less likely to deliberately do something that they actually BELIEVE is actually wrong.

[RCOH]

Here we go again :rolleyes:

[S.]

Yeah, fuck the rich and their extravaggant possesions

Everyone says that, yet at the same time wants to be rich themselves. I bet you've daydreamed some time "gee, if I won tattslotto (or whatever get-rich dream), I'd buy _____". If somebody offered you a job/career that paid twice, maybe five times what you earn now, like you'd knock it back.

IMO everyone who pays out the rich is simply jealous. It's easy to say "you have ____ so fuck you", it's much harder to admit "shit, he must have worked hard/been a smart guy/been very fortunate to get that kind of stuff" (not that Saddam qualifies here, I'm talking about your average rich bloke over here).

[DOM]

Everyone says that, yet at the same time wants to be rich themselves. I bet you've daydreamed some time "gee, if I won tattslotto (or whatever get-rich dream), I'd buy _____". If somebody offered you a job/career that paid twice, maybe five times what you earn now, like you'd knock it back.

IMO everyone who pays out the rich is simply jealous. It's easy to say "you have ____ so fuck you", it's much harder to admit "shit, he must have worked hard/been a smart guy/been very fortunate to get that kind of stuff" (not that Saddam qualifies here, I'm talking about your average rich bloke over here).

Couldnt agree more .. seems to be a Juvenille type syndrome ..

However ....

I dont mind the rich .. as Steve said .. they either are Lucky/Work hard etc .. however their is such a thing as being Humble .. being greatful for what you have and considering yourself as any other human.

Those Rich people who beleive they should have different rights to things shit me, ex .. Rich people who dont want Average people at Resturants or Rich people gaining VIP access to things. I realise clubs/events give Rich people these rights because it looks good on their behalf having these richy people ginning around .. but It all comes down to being humble again.

I example I can think of at the top of my head.

Matt Damon - RICH ... top bloke .. if you have seen him interviewed hes just your average lad.

The Creators of Google. RICH RICH RICH. - They drive average cars .. and enjoy the simple things they are quite humble.

Some Rich people are down right snobby f**k-tards.

... sorry I went off topic ;)

Who cares about the Car ... If the US soldiers stripped it and sold parts .. then good on them .. they were sent over there in the first place. If someone asked me if I wanted to go to war torn Iraq .. and said there was a possibility of stripping Sports cars for extra cash .... I would tell them to fark off !!

Yes they shouldnt be doing it .. and yes it the proceeds could of gone to a better cause .. but thats life.

[wombat]

i am absolutly amazed at the amount of bad OLDER drivers out there, people over 30 who just shouldn't be allowed on the road.
So how about adressing the real issue, the drivers; instead of attacking the easy target, the machinery.

[S.]

So how about adressing the real issue, the drivers; instead of attacking the easy target, the machinery.

Oh god, that said it perfectly. New sig quote!

[scblack]

So how about adressing the real issue, the drivers; instead of attacking the easy target, the machinery.

Yes, I agree with Socket here, you're right on the mark Wombat!


I think that about 15 years ago, they did impose regular testing on those aged 80 and over, but so many failed, that they stopped it! How screwed up is that? Presently it's up to a GP to make that decision, and they must be pretty lax.

[manny24]

So how about adressing the real issue, the drivers; instead of attacking the easy target, the machinery.

no, the issue is Uday's ferrari!!! i think were all off topic... :p

[Cave Dweller]

Socket, those reasons are very pathetic. If your travelling behind someone at 107 and its a 110 zone then why do you need to overtake? And 0.00001% of people race on private land and the NT has almost no population. As for driving tests they are nazis up here in Sydney, not checking blind spots in a P test can have you failed. And please don't get up on your high horse about me being above airing my opinions, you spew ring wing stuff on here all the time. Not that it bothers me, i find it quite funny actually :D

Wombat, i agree.

The main point i was trying to make was i am so sick of all these old fuddy duddys picking on young drivers and young people in general, they should go back to caring about their shares and house prices and leave us the fuck alone. If your going to bring in a power restriction law for P platers then it should apply to everyone, there are HEAPS of bad drivers out there over 22 years old that are the WORST drivers i have ever seen, i almost get hit by one of them everyday. I really don't care if cars are restricted or not, if someone wants to wrap themselves around a pole at 200km/hr who am i to stop them.

Cheers

-Matt

[johnny]

PS - now a McLaren would have been a tragedy....

Torana A9X or original EK/FB Holden would've bought tears to my eyes! More so for their artistic/asthetic value than their prestige or capabilities.

Although, they are only cars.......not bikes ;)

[Cave Dweller]

I think that about 15 years ago, they did impose regular testing on those aged 80 and over, but so many failed, that they stopped it! How screwed up is that? Presently it's up to a GP to make that decision, and they must be pretty lax.

Thats the problem with driving. You get tested at 18 when you get your P's and the next test is when you turn 80, thats 60 years of accumulated bad driving habits, no wonder they failed.

I personally reckon people should have a drivers test every 10 years, if you fail then you have 6 months to repeat the test, if you fail again it gets taken away and you go back onto your P's. If the RTA was serious about cutting the road toll they would do something like this rather then picking on young drivers. If a 40 year old wraps themselves around a pole in his skyline it's nothing, if it's an 18 year old then it's front page news. Pathetic.

[johnny]

By the way, calling some one right or left wing is completely out dated. Right wing economically means something different to right wing socially. Same goes for the word "conservative".

[wombat]

As for driving tests they are nazis up here in Sydney, not checking blind spots in a P test can have you failed.
Heh, that's the whole issue, the tests are completely rediculous! "Oh no, you can't do a reverse parallel park! You're not getting your license! We don't care whether or not you can handle a car at speed, or have even the vaguest idea what to do for an emergency stop, as long as you can do your parking manevure, and a 3 point turn you're all sweet."

As for being strict, well I don't know about that, when I did mine my tester picked a wide street for my 3 point turn, so I did a u-turn instead. Oh, missing a blind spot check isn't an instant fail either.

[Cave Dweller]

Heh, that's the whole issue, the tests are completely rediculous! "Oh no, you can't do a reverse parallel park! You're not getting your license! We don't care whether or not you can handle a car at speed, or have even the vaguest idea what to do for an emergency stop, as long as you can do your parking manevure, and a 3 point turn you're all sweet."

As for being strict, well I don't know about that, when I did mine my tester picked a wide street for my 3 point turn, so I did a u-turn instead. Oh, missing a blind spot check isn't an instant fail either.

Well, i am 24 and am going for my P's at the moment ( i know, i know, im a lazy basterd). Racked up 60 hours of driving and went for my first "proper" driving lesson the other day ($61, what a rip off!). I would have failed becasue i repeatedly didn't check my right hand blind spot when reversing and left blind spot when turning left. I mean, did you know that when you are going straight through a round about you need to indicate left, even when going straight ahead? I didn't. I bet no one over the age of 20 knows that. I can't believe the amount of hops they make you jump through to get your liscense, rediculus. I would like to see a 40 year old driver try and get his/her P's under the current nazis regime, good luck :D

[S.]

Socket, those reasons are very pathetic. If your travelling behind someone at 107 and its a 110 zone then why do you need to overtake? And 0.00001% of people race on private land and the NT has almost no population. As for driving tests they are nazis up here in Sydney, not checking blind spots in a P test can have you failed. And please don't get up on your high horse about me being above airing my opinions, you spew ring wing stuff on here all the time. Not that it bothers me, i find it quite funny actually :D

Wombat, i agree.

The main point i was trying to make was i am so sick of all these old fuddy duddys picking on young drivers and young people in general, they should go back to caring about their shares and house prices and leave us the fuck alone. If your going to bring in a power restriction law for P platers then it should apply to everyone, there are HEAPS of bad drivers out there over 22 years old that are the WORST drivers i have ever seen, i almost get hit by one of them everyday. I really don't care if cars are restricted or not, if someone wants to wrap themselves around a pole at 200km/hr who am i to stop them.

Cheers

-Matt

Even somebody doing 100 in a 110 zone is a hazard as far as overtaking goes, and why the hell should other people be subjected to being held up just because somebody else can't/won't drive at the speed limit? It is MUCH safer to be able to accelerate past them at a higher speed than to cruise past at a few km/h higher; it just takes too long. Yeah 0.001% or whatever of people drive/race on private land. You might want to do some research there, because you're a LONG way off the mark. Look how many people take their street-legal car to Calder on friday nights. As for NT, I'm sure the few hundred thousand people there would be glad to know that they actually barely exist. ;)
Besides that, there are a number of reasons why fast/powerful cars are actually practical to develop. Look at all the performance/safety stuff that has trickled down from F1 to rally cars to high performance street cars to your average family car - ABS, crumple zones, proper suspension setup, good (disc) brakes, etc.

Wow, not checking your blind spots! Down here they can fail you for rolling through a stopsign at literally 1km/h! They MUST be tough! haha... driving tests are a joke. They prove that you can pass the test, not that you can drive safely. Re-testing people means they just get up to scratch for one day, then stop caring again.

And I see your point now (that everyone should be treated more equally), but there is no denying that P-platers have less experience, less control and a statistically higher chance of crashing than other demographics. I do agree though, I don't really care if somebody wants to do 200km/h on a public road, as long as they don't run into me or other people.

[floody]

Give me one good reason why anybody should own a car that can go faster the 110km/h?

Because its FUN :D

[Shaun]

Not just in powerful cars...My brother rolled his Kombi yesterday, & now he has nowhere to live.

HAHA!!! am i the only person who found that amusing??

sorry Rod, no offence.

[Carl]

You're not the only one. I had a giggle.

I'm pretty sure the Northern Territory DOES have speed limits now, even in the very rural areas.

[scblack]

I'm pretty sure the Northern Territory DOES have speed limits now, even in the very rural areas.

I'm sure it is still open speed limits, but you CAN be booked in any open speed zone, if the officer feels it is INAPPROPRIATE speed.

[luckyphil]

Why should anyone own a car that can go faster than 110? Because it's completely unsafe to overtake with a car that CAN'T exceed the speed limit. If someone is sitting on 107 and you want to overtake because you're sitting behind him/her, it will take you a LONG time on the wrong side of the road to get past.

if the car is travelling at 107km/h in a 110 zone, then there is simply no need to overtake them!

edit: beat me to it. whoops

[RCOH]

HAHA!!! am i the only person who found that amusing??

sorry Rod, no offence.

None Taken, Shaun. Because he didn't get hurt it was pretty funny. The whole kitchenette was ripped off it's fixtures, the pop-top is rooted, windscreen cracked & whole passeger side of the van is nice & dented. And he only got it re-registered last week.

He was going 50 in a 60 zone on a dirt road between Laurietown & Taree on the way back from the Exodus doof in Tenterfield. It still goes alright though.

So speed may kill but going too slow causes vans to flip!!!!

[parallax]

Comparison between now and then:

now:
I studied for about 2 hours before even sitting my L's test.
Spent yonks trying to find a quiet street in Sydneys east where I could try to learn and drive a manual car.
I was continuously harrassed by other drives, not p-platers however, but fuckwits in vans and family commodores overtaking by passing through a gap in the parking lane because I would sit on the speed limit of 60.
I was also reprimanded by Police because I was riding a motorised scooter (with a full-face helmet) from my house to the shops. (150m)

then:
My dad got licence by driving to the Police Station in Wagga, picking up the sergeant and driving him around the block a few times. He was then given his licence (piece of paper with his name on it).
My dad would drive the tractor 16miles down public roads to a mates farm to give a hand.

I would love to see a selection of self professed "safe drivers" try to resit their tests in 2005. The bitching and moaning by the fuckwits on ABC radio alone would be enough to make the RTA rethink it's strategies for safer roads. Goddam fucking hypocrisy.

Here's an oddball: What about gun laws? Does Australias weapon-phobia make us safe, or make us targets?

[random101]

wow shit!!!!!!

as if you would do that to a car :(

never the less im gettting me self a ticket to that place and whipping up some parts :cool:

because thoughs rotors u see are worth 20k each ooooow yeeeee

[lotec]

because those rotors u see Cost 20k each ooooow yeeeee

Fixed that up for you there ;)

[S.]

if the car is travelling at 107km/h in a 110 zone, then there is simply no need to overtake them!

edit: beat me to it. whoops

What about 106? 105? 100? 90?

I say if they're driving under the speed limit, then overtaking is justified.

[road warrior]

I can't believe people are like "it's just a Ferrari" unless you drive a Maserati *sp or a Lamborguni, I don't think you can say that. They are awesome. I mean I would probably buy a Viper first...but man those cars have pulling power, and I don't mean torque.

[lotec]

Same shit anyway, ferrari own maserati and lamborghini :D

[matty_2004]

Ferrari dosen't own Maserati, they're owned by Fiat (which is basically the Italian Government). The Ferrari F1 Racing team isn't owned by Fiat but.

[donthucktoflat]

Because its FUN :D

and are there any objections? ;)

[scottmeister]

Same shit anyway, ferrari own maserati and lamborghini :D

Yeah, Ferrari car production side of it is owned by Fiat. But, Lamborghini is owned by Volkswagen, which also owns Audi, Porsche, Bentley and more.

Also, Ford owns Jaguar and Aston Martin and more. BMW owns Rolls-Royce and MINI and Rover (Land rover, Range rover etc).

You get the idea.

[saff_cossie]

On the topic of Uday's Ferrari. IMO glad it is burnt and the pics available like they are (assuming it is his). The officials who were interviewed at the time of his death gave accounts of horrific ordeals he put people through. Things that are too disgusting to put on a forum. So its a Ferrari, nothing compared to innocent lives, innocent people. My 2c worth.

[wombat]

I mean, did you know that when you are going straight through a round about you need to indicate left, even when going straight ahead?
Actually, in NSW there are no "laws" regarding indicating on roundabouts; the proper way to drive through one is to to indicate right when you enter the roundabout, and then indicate left when you're exiting. Due to the fact that some roundabouts are so small that indicating like that isn't really practical, there is no official "law", just guidelines. (At least that's how I understand it, and I have asked people who should know).

As for the speeding debate:
There is one thing that really gets my goat; I spend most of my time driving on pretty shithouse country roads, which are 60, 80 or 100km/h speedlimits (for the most part). Now, I'm never going to proclaim to be an expert, but I believe that I do have some sort or awareness of what my car is doing around me, and nothing gets to me more than the "if you're 5 kays over the limit, you're endangering lives".
That is bullshit, there is no way that you can effectively develop speedlimits for infitnitly variable road surfaces and curves by using 3 or 4 blanket limits. There are large stretches of road that I drive on a regular basis, where I feel comfortable driving above the speedlimits, but there are also stretches where there is no way in hell that I will drive at the speedlimit, because these corners/stretches are just too damn sketchy.
Speed limits will not keep you safe, driving intelligently just might.

[BagofSkill]

Ferrari dosen't own Maserati, they're owned by Fiat (which is basically the Italian Government). The Ferrari F1 Racing team isn't owned by Fiat but.

Actually, Maserati is owned wholy by the Agnelli Family, who also own 90% of Ferrari. The other 10% is owned by the Ferrari Family and some very senior staff. And Maser is under the wing of Ferrari to become an aspirational brand for those who can't afford Ferrari's.
The angelli Familly also owns 80% Fiat, which owns Alfa Romeo and Lancia. GM owns the other 20%.
The two branches of the family are kept separate for very specific corparate reasons.

But back to the speeding...
I speed all the time. Like, I only slow down to pass the camera's. Funny thing is, unlike the Adds, it hasn't killed me. I've spend a lot of time learning and practicing advanced driving techniques, and in 9 years of driving, I haven't caused a single shunt. On the other hand I've been rear ended twice. Both times I was already stopped for a while, no emergency manouvers, and the gumbys that have hit me have been stupid people not concentrating on driving. One of those was unregisered and uninsured, the other was on the phone. Speeding kills is a load of horse shit. In appropriate speed by a unskilled driver, now there's truth in that, but not very catchy for your billboards, and harder to enforce.
The fact is that very few people can actually drive worth a damn, and even those who can steer a car have no idea what to do in an emergency situation, like when they loose grip on a wet road, or have to avoid an obsticle at the last second. It's just not something you get taught. So the goverment says, hrm, this is the minimum we could expect of our worst drivers, so if we make that the maximum for everyone, we'll be ok.

That really shits me, to be held down to the lowest common denominator of the millions of fools who don't know any better.

What sort of world are we creating here?

[scblack]

Yeah, Ferrari car production side of it is owned by Fiat. But, Lamborghini is owned by Volkswagen, which also owns Audi, Porsche, Bentley and more.

Also, Ford owns Jaguar and Aston Martin and more. BMW owns Rolls-Royce and MINI and Rover (Land rover, Range rover etc).

You get the idea.

Couple of errors there.

Porsche are not owned by anyone else - they remain the only independent car maker.

Rover cars are owned by a finance consortium, bought from BMW.

Range Rover, Land Rover are owned by Ford, bought from BMW.

Bagofskill - Fiat are not owned by the Agnelli family, it is controlled by the Italian govt. Fiat owns roughly 80% of Ferrari, and I'm sure Maserati is 100% owned by Fiat. The Formula One team IS owned by Fiat - it is a part of the Ferrari company.

Here's a few more:
Lotus is owned by Proton - car company in Malaysia.
Volkswagen own - Audi, Skoda, Lamborghini, Bentley.
Ford own - Volvo, Aston Martin, Jaguar, Range Rover, Land Rover, control Mazda.
GM own - Saab, control Isuzu
BMW do own Rolls Royce & Mini
Renault control Nissan.
DaimlerChrysler own - Mercedes, Chrysler, Smart, control Mitsubishi(but have given up on them), Jeep(not 100% sure of it).

The only car company to have NEVER reported a loss is Suzuki.
GM was the first company EVER to report more than $1bn sales in a year.(back in the 50s).

Just a few interesting facts.

[lotec]

If ford own rover then why do the petrol range rovers still have BMW engines in them? I wouldn't have though a car company would sell their engines to a competing manufacturer? Look what ive started here :D

[scblack]

If ford own rover then why do the petrol range rovers still have BMW engines in them? I wouldn't have though a car company would sell their engines to a competing manufacturer? Look what ive started here :D

BMW owned Rover Group for a few years, and lost many billions of dollars in the process. The then current new Range Rovers were engineered by BMW and of course used their own engines. BMW eventually sold the Rover group to stop the losses they were incurring. (They actually sold the Rover Group for the grand total of $1 - yes $1 is correct, but it included all debts.) Rover cars were sold to a finance consortium, and Land & Range Rover were sold to Ford. In the deal with Ford, they ensured they had the engines they were engineered for - BMW - which meant that YES, Ford has been buying BMW engines for a few years.

Well picked up Lotec.

[BagofSkill]

Couple of errors there.

Bagofskill - Fiat are not owned by the Agnelli family, it is controlled by the Italian govt. Fiat owns roughly 80% of Ferrari, and I'm sure Maserati is 100% owned by Fiat. The Formula One team IS owned by Fiat - it is a part of the Ferrari company.


Not right matey.
Currently:
The Agnelli Family is the majority shareholder in Fiat with 30%.
The Family also owns Ferrari and Maserati, which they separated from Fiat a couple of years ago when it looked likey that Fiat was going out of Biz. Because of the tenuous financial situation, Fiat has also been separated from the Familys other and extensive (and still profitable) industrial business'.

Fiat has been majority goverment owned in the past though, and current speculation in biz markets is that the company may again be nationalized to save it closing the doors.

Not that this car stuff matters on a mtb forum

[wombat]

Not that this car stuff matters on a mtb forum
It does if you cut the crap and tell me how to get the datto to handle...at all. :D




Note: first person to say "sell it" or something similar will be banned. ;)

[matty_2004]

The Ferrari F1 team is seperate to Ferrari itself, and is not owned by Fiat either, however they do have access to Ferrari's name, research and facilities. It was said that Fiat pour heaps of money into the Ferrari F1 team but it is a myth and they are two seperate corporations, and most of the Ferrari F1 Team's funding came solely from Marlboro cigarettes.

Oh and also Toyota owns Diahatsu (just contributing to the who owns who).

[Carl]

wombat: king springs super extra ultra lows, or you could just cut your springs, that's a good idea.

[scblack]

Not right matey.
Currently:
The Agnelli Family is the majority shareholder in Fiat with 30%.
The Family also owns Ferrari and Maserati, which they separated from Fiat a couple of years ago when it looked likey that Fiat was going out of Biz. Because of the tenuous financial situation, Fiat has also been separated from the Familys other and extensive (and still profitable) industrial business'.

Fiat has been majority goverment owned in the past though, and current speculation in biz markets is that the company may again be nationalized to save it closing the doors.

Not that this car stuff matters on a mtb forum

Mmmm, OK then, I was sure that was the case, but maybe I'm wrong.

Actually I do remember Ferrari being sold off out of the Fiat group when Fiat was in financial difficulty, a few years ago, so that lends weight to you being right, and me being wrong.

Oh well, I'm sure the others are right though.

Thanks BagofSkill.

[BagofSkill]

just keepin it real.

Ferrari F1 and Ferrari Road cars are one and the same. there are no separate companies. same shareholders, same management, same stuff.

Refference it at http://www.ferrariworld.com

[wombat]

wombat: king springs super extra ultra lows, or you could just cut your springs, that's a good idea.
How about super extra ultra uber lows, and then cutting another inch or so off them?

[Carl]

Why did you even bother asking for advice?

You obviously already know the perfect set-up.

[BagofSkill]

Shyane, there is no point messing around with a classic like that. You have to go in with maximum attack.

Lower the engine 30mm and move it back 100mm. Change the Gearbox for a Hewland FTR 6 speed sequential mounted in the rear, under the seats, stealth like. Then, unless the budget will stretch to F1 spec Carbon, install cro-moly aero section wishbones fron and rear, double wishbone setup on Aurora Unibolts, rocker activated Ohlins Dampers with a twin spring package, ceramic wheelbearings and Performance Friction Carbon/Carbon brakes.

After that it'll handle and stop unlike anything previously assosciated with the Datto monkier.

[floody]

It does if you cut the crap and tell me how to get the datto to handle...at all. :D




Note: first person to say "sell it" or something similar will be banned. ;)

I might have a few ideas, PM me if you're half serious...what sort of datto?

[thewayitis]

just get a diesel hilux and be done with it.... who cares how fast a car goes as long as it gets you there. you could have a diesel hilux and the missers could have a datto. heaps better then that ferrari and the engines last 10 times longer anyway

[toodles]

It does if you cut the crap and tell me how to get the datto to handle...at all. :D

Put it on a car transporter truck and drive the truck around. Instantly better cornering and less body roll. :)

Actually, I've got mates with a rally Datsun and a seriously modded 1600 ute ad both handle fine. So it can be done - still poses the question why but meh.

[wombat]

I might have a few ideas, PM me if you're half serious...what sort of datto?
See that's the issue, 1600s definately have a lot of potential, 120Y's on the other hand don't. Although a switch to 1200 struts is on the cards, just so that I've got some options with brakes.

If you still think there's hope though, I'm always open to suggestions. At least if funds don't allow for real changes I can imagine what it would feel like. :(

[Shaun]

See that's the issue, 1600s definately have a lot of potential, 120Y's on the other hand don't. Although a switch to 1200 struts is on the cards, just so that I've got some options with brakes.

If you still think there's hope though, I'm always open to suggestions. At least if funds don't allow for real changes I can imagine what it would feel like. :(

or... you could get a 180sx, take the CA18T engine and gearbox etc. out of it, then get some really good engineer and put the suspension setup into the datto.( basically stick the datto shell onto the 180sx).

hehe.

after you win powerball of course.

[floody]

Theres lots of hope. a 120y is reasonably light shell with a simple but effective suspension arrangements.

In the front, slightly longer control arms or redrilled control arm mounts might give some more negative camber which could be useful, and lowered, stiffer springs with matching shock inserts would help immensely.
I'm guessing the 120y struts are pretty tiny little things with crap inserts, maybe something from a 240k, 180b, bluebird, R31 skyline or something could be substituted (with a few mods).
Replacing all applicable bushes with polyurethane ones would be a help, front and rear. Tramp rods could help control rear axle tramp, as well as good shocks with decent rebound control.
Adding a panhard rod to the rear end would be beneficial in controlling lateral movement in the rear suspension.
Rims with decent tyre width and as deep an offset as you can fit under your gaurds with reasonable size tyres would help - widening track generally helps mechanical grip and stability, as well as effectively acting like a stiffer sway bar.

Check out the forums and stuff at http://www.datsun1200.com for more info, plenty there. Somewhere on there is the official guide to setting up a 1200 coupe for circuit racing, most of which should be applicable to the 120y, and lots of knowledgeable people.

I can't see 1200 struts offering much more brake choice or being much different to the 120y ones?

[Cave Dweller]

Theres lots of hope. a 120y is reasonably light shell with a simple but effective suspension arrangements.

In the front, slightly longer control arms or redrilled control arm mounts might give some more negative camber which could be useful, and lowered, stiffer springs with matching shock inserts would help immensely.
I'm guessing the 120y struts are pretty tiny little things with crap inserts, maybe something from a 240k, 180b, bluebird, R31 skyline or something could be substituted (with a few mods).
Replacing all applicable bushes with polyurethane ones would be a help, front and rear. Tramp rods could help control rear axle tramp, as well as good shocks with decent rebound control.
Adding a panhard rod to the rear end would be beneficial in controlling lateral movement in the rear suspension.
Rims with decent tyre width and as deep an offset as you can fit under your gaurds with reasonable size tyres would help - widening track generally helps mechanical grip and stability, as well as effectively acting like a stiffer sway bar.

Check out the forums and stuff at http://www.datsun1200.com for more info, plenty there. Somewhere on there is the official guide to setting up a 1200 coupe for circuit racing, most of which should be applicable to the 120y, and lots of knowledgeable people.

I can't see 1200 struts offering much more brake choice or being much different to the 120y ones?

Hmmm.... my auntie used to own a 120Y and i still think to this day that they are one of the most ugly cars ever made. But it would be funny to pull up to some lights and smoke a homeboy in his WRX :D

[Tomas]

Just for the record, Ferrari is actually a Baseball cap and Poster manufacturing company (I believe they also dabble in mugs, G-strings and so on) who turn out a few promotional vehicles to help sell their main product lines.

Ferrari's formula1 team is funded purely on sales of merchandise. ANyone who knows how much f1 teams chew through a year youd know that its an awfuly large ammount of money.

[scblack]

Formula One teams also receive a percentage of TV revenues, on the basis of the points that they score in a season. Ferrari, because they are presently killing pointscores, are receiving a large part of these TV revenues.

[noitall]

hmm, engine block and manifold looks still ok...would be a cheap one.

funny thing the ferrari only weighs 20KG lighter now it is burnt out..haha

[Fuzzy]

HAHAHAHAH TAKE THAT! THATS WHAT YOU GET FOR FUCKING WITH AMERICA!@
AMERICA FUCK YEH! COMING AGAIN TO BURN THE SHIT OUT OF YOUR MOTHERFUCKING CAR YEH!

*sung to tune of America Fuck Yeh from Team America*



*goes back into hibernation*

[curtisrider]

HAHAHAHAH TAKE THAT! THATS WHAT YOU GET FOR FUCKING WITH AMERICA!@
AMERICA FUCK YEH! COMING AGAIN TO BURN THE SHIT OUT OF YOUR MOTHERFUCKING CAR YEH!

*sung to tune of America Fuck Yeh from Team America*



*goes back into hibernation*

agreed.

and wtf its fuzzy.

[lotec]

And wtf he has 1 post :eek:

[BuStA]

I would still own it... In about 20yrs of spending money on it, It would look like brand new...

[BuStA]

So I take it you dont want to look at this website then???

http://www.wreckedexotics.com/550/

[Adi]

What the Fuzzmaster said, :D!

[scblack]

Seeing we're getting into ownership, I thought I'd put down the actual ownership structure of Formula One, for those who are interested. I'll put company names in italics.

I'll get it as easy to understand as possible.

Formula One is run by a company called "Formula One Administration" - FOA for short. FOA is owned 100% by "Formula One Holdings".

"Formula One Holdings" is owned 100% by "SLEC Holdings".

"SLEC Holdings" is owned 75% by "Speed Investments" , and 25% by "Bambino Holdings".

"Speed Investments" is owned by the following "Bayerische Landesbank" 62.2%, "Lehman Brothers" 18.9%, "J.P.Morgan Chase" 18.9%.

"Bambino Holdings" is owned by the "Bambino Trust" in Liechtenstein (Bambino Trust is a Bernie Ecclestone family trust).

At this point I must make it clear that ownership does not necessarily translate to control, no matter how contradictory that may sound. What matters is VOTING shares, which can be a different class(or matter) entirely.
Thus it is possible to own 100% of ordinary shares, but not have control. And also the opposite - you could own as little as 20% shares, but have control.

So, looking above ownership of FOA flows to: 75% "Speed Investments"(the Banks), and 25% "Bambino"(Ecclestone).

The FOA constitution allows only three Directors, one of whom is Bernie Ecclestone, another Stephen Mullens(a lawyer appointed by Bambino, so Ecclestone controlled), and another person. FOA constitution also mean only Bambino can remove Mr. Mullens). So Bernie Ecclestone controls two of three Board members.

The banks won a recent court case, affirming that their 75% ownership translates to control. BUT, two weeks later, Ecclestone paid one pound into FOA, which paid for 50% of the voting shares in FOA. So, even though the banks own 75% FOA, Ecclestone has 50% VOTING shares, and retains control.

This is a complex set-up, and I hope people understand this stuff, but it's how Ecclestone has retained control over Formula One commercial rights, and therefore the flow of hundreds of millions of dollars per year. From Formula One, he is one of England's wealthiest people.