kittens, trains bikes and complete idiots.

[naz]

if you didnt c, 3 kids tortured a kitten at a train station, and then on boxing day some kid was going 150km down the cumberland highway(70kmhr) on a moto that he got for xmas.

3 kids torturing a kitten to within a inch of its life, ye i hate cats but fuck that is just sick, and ofcourse they'd have to pick on something so weak little and denfeless which says alot about the people themselves.

then we have some hectic bro doubling the speed limit on a moto then whinging about his punishment, mate you should have been fuckin killed atleast then no one would have to listen to you "fuck off fuck off or ill fucking hit you" (aimed at tv crew. and put up with ur fucking haircut.

i would have much rather see those kids fight that sick bro.

[Ride_Guy]

Well the kids with the kitten will probly turn into murderer's and the guy on the bike is jsut an idiot.

Theres some fools in this country.

[naz]

sorry i just noticed i posted in the wrong forum.

[lotec]

Yea I saw that about the kitten on the news tonight, that is just sick and I dont know how anyone could do that to something that is alive, I bet they wouldn't be so tough if it could fight back, e.g lets see you kick and stomp on a grizzly bear and then ride over it on your bike (which is probably stolen anyway) im pretty sure they'd be pissing themselfs and running as fast as they could, good to see that it was rescued though, as for the guy doing that on the moto I didn't see it but he should be shot, its morons like that that ruin it for everyone, im getting my l's soon and because of idiots like that i can't drive most of the cars I would like and if i was to get my own car i am highly restricted, i wish these peoples addresses were allowed to be posted for all the world to see, then maybe they wouldnt be so brave / stupid im sure (and there would also be a lot less of them around after a while :D )

[Mugger]

Those kids and that kitten was just..... :mad: I do hope they catch the punks and give them the same treatment they gave the cat.

As for the guy speeding, he dosn't deserve to be on the road. He couldn't resist and was back on the road in 4 days and then was sentences to 4 years ban on the road?

[naz]

i fucken hate insomnia.

[danv]

i fucken hate insomnia.
I fucken HATE losing long posts.:mad::mad:

But I hate channel ten news more. It's not news, it's a reality show,and the fact that this story about a fucking kitten made the lead is afucken, fucken joke.

I don't see how anyone can judge these kids, this kind of shit goes onall the time the same, maybe sometimes to lesser extremes, or adheringto more socially acceptable scenarios. When I go fishing, I attatch apiece of bait to a HOOK and that then the gets PUSHED INTO THE MOUTH OFTHE FISH and can sometimes go right through and pierce the outsideskin. Alternatively the fish can SWALLOW THE HOOK, AND IT LODGES INTHEIR GUT (keeping in mind that the hook can be about the size of adecent feed, think of a hook about the same size as your roast dinner).I then pull on the line which pulls on the hook, dragging the fish backto the boat by the hook that is through thier mouth or gut. Imaginesomeone forcing you to do <ahref="http://forums.farkin.net/showthread.php?t=23631">this</a>,but with the hook through your mouth, and then drage you along theground for 50m or so?

I've seen all sorts of crazy things done to fish, crabs, yabbies, flysby kids, that would easily ammount to torture for amusement if doneto a human. Ever ripped the wings of a fly? I've collected a craband ripped its pincers of to keep him as a companion. I'm not sayingthat it's right or wrong, i'm saying it happens all the time, sometimesit appears less sinister on the face of it, sometimes not, but the waypeople react is all about how it appears on the face. Torturing agrasshopper the same way as these kids did would simply not getanyone's attention,

No one is in a position to judge these kids, and no fuckwit can claimthat these kids will grow up to be sociopaths. Obviously in oursociety, animals are seen is different to humans, and this fundamentaldistinction can manifest in different ways. Maybe one of the kids willbecome a rapist or serial killer. Maybe one of them will feel extremelyguilty and end up being and RSPCA officer. Maybe one of them willforget about it a few months later. And maybe one of them will chowdown on a ham sandwich and think what the fuck is the difference?

I'm tired and incoherent, but what i'm mainly trying to say is WHY THEFUCK IS THIS A NATIONAL NEWS STORY? Why is this the most importantthing that happened today?

[naz]

once again i hate insomnia
so if you saw a bunch of kids throwing rocks at a cat, stomping on it, running it over with a bike, you'd stand back and think oh well this shit happens every day? ah there just kids.

mate theres a difference when you go fishing you dont go with the intention of torturing a fish? when u catch a fish do you throw rocks at it, do you stomp on it, do u run it over with a bike? cause more pain than just catching it? its not like the kids were trying to catch the cat, they were out to kill it.

how can anyone judge these kids?
did u even see the bulletin, you think what they did was ok?
u compare the pain of a fish to the kitten then u compare it to humans
try and grasp having rocks thrown at you, being stomped on, being run over by a bike.
ah im pretty sure, that people who kill always start from the bottom up, torture animals, get bored and start killing humans for a buzz, i dont know bout u but torturting a animal like that at 14 aint exactly the best head start in life.

on the contrary, www.ogrish.com (http://www.ogrish.com)

[shauno]

Those kids and that kitten was just..... :mad: I do hope they catch the punks and give them the same treatment they gave the cat.
Only one inch further though ;)
That dumb tool on the moto should have hit a car..Atleast then he wouldnt be bitching about getting what he deserves.

[Grip]

Well anyone who knows me here knows I'm not a fan of bad language on the forums, but those little in-bred pricks should be fucked sideways by a fat man's fist and then slowly gutted. That was one of the most disgusting things I've seen for long while and if you consider that a society can in many ways be judged by it's treatment and attitudes to those less capable, then we have some mighty big concerns there.

And danv, you made some valid points and I agree with most of what you said, but sorry you're wrong about these....


I don't see how anyone can judge these kids,

Bullshit! We as a society are in a position to judge these kids!

and no fuckwit can claimthat these kids will grow up to be sociopaths.

Actually there is a huge amount of research that shows EXACTLY that! If you're interested, as a starting point have a read of "Mindhunter" by John Douglas and Mark Olshaker.

[FR Drew]

Minor threadjack for part one:

Lotec, are you in one of the states where they've said that younger guys can't drive V8's or turbo's?

Man that's a dumb rule. As one of the guys at work pointed out, you can be on a farm with a gutless turbo diesel ust and notb e allowed to drive it, can't drive a 253 monaro or a 5 litre torana cos they're V8's (or an XY, XA, XB etc 351 for same reason)

BUT you can go out and buy one of the top spec v6 Hemi Chargers (e49?)that they used for racing at bathurst and was just as fast if not more so. That's alright, that's a 6.

I can see the value of V6 chargers starting to soar already.

On the topic of torturing fish, I have to say that i knid of agree with dan v. Fish don't have cute fluffy fur, fish can't cry or whimper or mewl or screech.

I don't see any other animal where the general populous thinks it's ok to trick it into a trap where you snag it and then let it get away for a bit and drag it back to you fighting, then let it get away for a bit then drag it back then etc, etc till it's exhausted and willing to die. If anyone was doing it with a kitten EVERYONE would be outraged. But hey, we have fishing comps all across the country, Rex Hunt rate's his bits off on TV and all these guys have stickers with "I fish and I vote" (gotta love multitasking don't you).

Can you imagine folks driving round with "I torture kittens and I vote"?

It's all about fuzziness, cuteness and the ability to look mournful or cry/scream when in pain.


As for the actual torturing of kittens (or any other animal such as dancing bears or organ monkeys or whaling or harvesting shark fins) it's all pretty f@#ked up. No, it's not the most important thing happening in the county, you should know, Ray and John Laws have told you that the most important thing happening is Carson from Queer Eye judging the fashion at the Melbourne Cup or single mothers who smoke and have more than 2 kids and no job.

Don't go looking on 7, 9 and 10 for real news, stick with the ABC (although even they're heading fairly tabloid over the last year or so from time to time)

Gotta go.

dru

[Reptileman]

I fucken HATE losing long posts.:mad::mad:

But I hate channel ten news more. It's not news, it's a reality show,and the fact that this story about a fucking kitten made the lead is afucken, fucken joke.

I don't see how anyone can judge these kids, this kind of shit goes onall the time the same, maybe sometimes to lesser extremes, or adheringto more socially acceptable scenarios. When I go fishing, I attatch apiece of bait to a HOOK and that then the gets PUSHED INTO THE MOUTH OFTHE FISH and can sometimes go right through and pierce the outsideskin. Alternatively the fish can SWALLOW THE HOOK, AND IT LODGES INTHEIR GUT (keeping in mind that the hook can be about the size of adecent feed, think of a hook about the same size as your roast dinner).I then pull on the line which pulls on the hook, dragging the fish backto the boat by the hook that is through thier mouth or gut. Imaginesomeone forcing you to do <ahref="http://forums.farkin.net/showthread.php?t=23631">this</a>,but with the hook through your mouth, and then drage you along theground for 50m or so?

I've seen all sorts of crazy things done to fish, crabs, yabbies, flysby kids, that would easily ammount to torture for amusement if doneto a human. Ever ripped the wings of a fly? I've collected a craband ripped its pincers of to keep him as a companion. I'm not sayingthat it's right or wrong, i'm saying it happens all the time, sometimesit appears less sinister on the face of it, sometimes not, but the waypeople react is all about how it appears on the face. Torturing agrasshopper the same way as these kids did would simply not getanyone's attention,

No one is in a position to judge these kids, and no fuckwit can claimthat these kids will grow up to be sociopaths. Obviously in oursociety, animals are seen is different to humans, and this fundamentaldistinction can manifest in different ways. Maybe one of the kids willbecome a rapist or serial killer. Maybe one of them will feel extremelyguilty and end up being and RSPCA officer. Maybe one of them willforget about it a few months later. And maybe one of them will chowdown on a ham sandwich and think what the fuck is the difference?

I'm tired and incoherent, but what i'm mainly trying to say is WHY THEFUCK IS THIS A NATIONAL NEWS STORY? Why is this the most importantthing that happened today?

I really cant believe what i have just read!!!!

To have a mind to even do something like what they did to any living thing is just the start of their lonely and un-sociable lives.

And comparing it to fishing??? What the? Did you know that a brand new hook is disolved by a fish' internal acids and immune system in approx 24 hours. Also studies have been done that show fish dont feel pain. So comparing what these zombie psycho losers did to the kitten to fishing is total crap.

The act was totally calious and cowardly, and no living thing whether it be a kitten or human should have to accept actions as such, they should be given the total maximum punishement and be tryed as adults on this one so they can be used as an example to people australia wide that this sought of crap will not be accepted by anyone regardless of upbringing or social standing in our culture/country. And what they become in the future doesnt mean shit, they should be punished for what they have done NOW!

As for the motorbike kid, he wont learn, he'll do it again and hopefully end up a solo statistic before he kills any other person on the roads.

[FR Drew]

Not sure if reptileman is having a shot at my post on the topic of fishing. Don't get me wrong, I'm well convinced that the mistreatment of the kitten is crap (onya Grip, well on the money!) totaly inexcusable etc and the little shits oughta be locked up if they get caught.

Personally, although I like eating fish and yeah, in the past I've fished myself, I think the idea of dragging an animal round till it's exhausted is pretty crap.

As for them not feeling pain being proved by research, Man, I just loooove research. The Japanese are busy in the Antarctic researching minki whales to destruction as we speak. I think, officially the research went something along the line of:
"We need to catch and kill them so we know how many there are".
In practice I think the research is more along the lines of:
"What's the market value of whale meat this week?"

Torturing animals is crap.

[zstreetco]

AS FAR AS IM CONSERNED I THINK THOSE FAGGOTS THAT TORTURED THE 8 WEEK OLD KITTEN SHOULD BE STONED TO DEATH LIKE THEY DO IN THE MIDDLE EAST, ANYONE WHO DOESNT AGREE THAT THESE KIDS ARE SO PAST SICK THATS ITS JUST INHUMAN IS A FUCKING DICKHEAD, imagine if someone came up to you when you were 8 weeks old and could barely even see the world and then had huge fucking boulders thrown at you and then ran over with a huge bike with some fat kid on it? honeslty what the fuck is this world coming to, if those kids are ever found im gonna make sure they burn in hell

[parallax]

Torturing a cat is disgusting, but wait until you read some of the shit that went on during the battle for Papua in WWII.

Live bayonetting of captured combatants for training purposes. Now that is fucking wrong.

Sorry. Have just been reading Paul Ham's book - 'Kokoda'. I recommend it to any amateur historian.

[Maggot]

I'm going fishing....

[Rik]

It's wrong, it's bad, but this sort of thing isn't a once off... can you say "media beatup"? I can, and it's pronounced "telegraphtodaytonightlaws", or something like that.
Let's all commend that brave female policeman for rescuing the poor defenseless animal :rolleyes: As much as I think the act is disgusting, I would've liked to see her fined for being on the train tracks, and then see the kitten put down. But no, we should all commend her for her brave actions... (no, I'm not grumpy and cynical at all, am I?)
There's alot of bad shit going on in this world, to humans as well as animals. Funny how one incident deserves so much media attention. The only thing I can see this news being good for, is hopefully it'll raise awareness of animal abuse in society, and make it even more taboo than it is now. But instead, I can imagine the kids will have a trial by media, it'll drag on for a few more days, then something oh so trivially huge will occur and attention will be focused on it, and we'll all move on. Yay for sensationalism.

[floody]

I can see the argument for fish etc - however I personally don't have any qualms about eating my blue grenadier fillet for dinner this evening or having a steak, lamb chops on Australia day etc. I think different animals are viewed differently and fulfill a different purpose, and killing a fish for FOOD is not the same as torturing a car for FUN.
Sport fishing and recreational hunting I have problems with though, IMHO that falls into the for fun category which is not good.

What those kids did to the kitten was sick, pure and simple. For kids to be even thinking like that, something is majorly farked.

As for the dickhead on the bike, 150 in a 70 zone is just ridiculous. He won't learn his lesson I would guess, and he most likely WON'T become a statistic - these f#ckheads never seem to, instead its a responsible rider who fucks up once and gets killed, more often than not...

Off the topic.

Minor threadjack for part one:

Lotec, are you in one of the states where they've said that younger guys can't drive V8's or turbo's?

Man that's a dumb rule. As one of the guys at work pointed out, you can be on a farm with a gutless turbo diesel ust and notb e allowed to drive it, can't drive a 253 monaro or a 5 litre torana cos they're V8's (or an XY, XA, XB etc 351 for same reason)

BUT you can go out and buy one of the top spec v6 Hemi Chargers (e49?)that they used for racing at bathurst and was just as fast if not more so. That's alright, that's a 6.

I can see the value of V6 chargers starting to soar already.


FR Drew (and anyone else who would like to know how it is), your mate is speaking directly out of his arse, well, he is a bit confused anyway. 3rd hand info is seldom correct.
In Victoria where these rules exist, for P platers its 125kw/1000kg of weight and/or 3.5 litres of engine capacity to 1000kg. Its not "No V8's or Turbos", however most turbo or V8 performance models would exceed that power:weight limit or capacity:weight limit. Many six cylinder cars aren't legal, the charger you mentioned being one (the basic 4.3 litre six is substantially more powerful than a 253 Holden V8, the E49 Bathurst one would most definitely not be legal, with over 225kw and a ~1300KG kerb weight - it was the quickest ever aussie car until the late 90's), and the six cylinder Cortina, Valiant Centura and IIRC even the six cylinder Marina all exceeding either the power or capacity limits. The Fords and commodores are mainly on the 3.5l:1000kg calculation, the 5 litre Holden exceeds this in the rather lightweight early commodores and I think the 351 Ford which generally pumps out in the region of 180-225kw is illegal on both counts, by dint of being too powerful and 5.8 litres (a car would need to weigh nigh on 2000kg for it to be legal). I think a 253 powered HQ-Z would be fine , and I think even 253 commodores might be legal, they are only 4.2 litres.

I hope that helped clarify it for you, end of discussion.

[Carl]

floody: The new laws that are meant to be coming into NSW are this;
No cars with turbocharged or supercharged engines
No V8s.
Mind you, this is only while you are on your red p's, (a minimum of 12 months).

I THINK they've done this because those engines are (usually) easiest to get more power out of.


And you should all stop talking about that guy on the motorbike, he's pretty tough, his rat's tail is about a foot long.

[lotec]

What about a v12 :D There are exceptions to that rule too Carl, if the family only has 1 vehicle and its a v8 you're allowed to drive it, just a major pain in the ass since we want to get a second car (I'm imagining what mums insurance premiums would be like if I drive her car :eek: )

[floody]

Okay, I hadn't seen the proposed NSW laws.
I was assuming from FR_Drew's wording that he was referring to states where such laws already exist, vis a vis Victoria being currently the sole province where this is the situation currently.

[johnny]

I don't see how anyone can judge these kids, this kind of shit goes onall the time the same, maybe sometimes to lesser extremes, or adheringto more socially acceptable scenarios.

I'll judge them on their actions as I judge, and I'm sure you judge people, all the time. I judge them against what I feel is right or wrong, not what the social standard may be. I feel torturing anything is wrong and abhorent. Kinda the same way I feel about your opinion in this matter. Just because things of a lesser or greater nature occur regularly, doesn't detract from the ugliness of this or any other like situation. Nothing is relative when it comes to willful abuse for simple pleasure.

I'm not sayingthat it's right or wrong Fine, I'll say it for you then.....it's as wrong as it gets!, i'm saying it happens all the time, sometimesit appears less sinister on the face of it, sometimes not, but the waypeople react is all about how it appears on the face Face or no face mate, puting anything through misery when it's avoidable is wrong, doesn't matter if it's in an abattior, laboratory, farm, train station or you ripping off a crabs appendages so you can keep it trapped in your house for your own pleasure!! How the hell is that any different than this?. Torturing agrasshopper the same way as these kids did would simply not getanyone's attention, You don't speak for me, especially on the matter of torturing living creatures.
No one is in a position to judge these kids Until I'm guilty of (intentionally) torturing animals, I will judge them for their actions, and you for seemingly excusing it. I won't even step foot into a zoo FFS.

I will agree with you on the tabloid nature of the commercial news. But I don't think this is news to anyone is it?

[MTB11R]

Just saw a chanel 7 news update, Police are questioning a 17 year old over the attack on the kitten.

[aday]

I saw the kitten on the news and i'm not a cat perso either but why would you do it to somthing that is defensless. Brainless idiots.

[No Skid Marks]

The kitten thing is so lame it's not worth discussing as it's obviously wrong unless your lying to look tough or your a serious looser.
I to believe fishing for fun should be banned, not just for the fact that you are dragging in a living animal by it's face and all the other associated cruel reasons but also because of how damaging discarded fishing line can be. Also I doubt very much a stainless hook disolves in days, and even if it does thats in the stomach what about in a gill or something. A freind went in a Marlin comp and caught a 1100pound 15ft Marlin(tag and release), the fish fort for hours and even threw up it's own intestines and re swallowed them during the battle. So a fish that large and God knows how old is less inteligent or whatever than an 8 week old kitten? I believe stainless hooks should definately be illegal and so should the little barbs. Who needs the barbs if it's for sport?
My 2cents.

[STP112]

When i heard about the kitten thing i nearly threw up!
thats one of the sickest fucking things ive ever heard about. I am a cat person and BLOODY HELL who could do such a thing. If they get caught i hope they die

[S.]

Howcome nobody's blamed George Bush or John Howard for this yet?

[Reptileman]

News just in:

1 teen has been caught, 1 handed himself in, and those 2 dobbed in the 3rd one.

So lets see what the courts give them now.

Lets just hope they dont get judge Pat O'shea.....she seems to like the slap on the wrist punishment.

[johnny]

Howcome nobody's blamed George Bush or John Howard for this yet?

I'm blaming you!

[Carlin]

I think that the ethical boundaries regarding how we ought and ought not treat animals is relitive to sentience and self consciousness.

When looking at the actions of youths on a train station we must not consider our own emotional reaction to the fact that this was a kitten.

Don't get me wrong. I think that it was morally reprehensible, but because a kitten is clearly a sentient being and that there there is no ends to justify doing these things to a kitten.

[toodles]

Howcome nobody's blamed George Bush or John Howard for this yet?

I'm waiting for them to blame someone else and launch an invasion.

[Carl]

I'm waiting for them to blame someone else and launch an invasion.

I'm waiting for these jokes to be funny.

[geen]

poor thing.

[toodles]

I'm waiting for these jokes to be funny.

Joke?

Sorry mate back - I apologise profusely. Back to the serious discussion at hand.

[Adi]

Danv: If you think that you can not judge those teenagers by their actions, then what the helll do you judge them by? A lot of shit happens everyday, people and animals die all the time in the weirdest ways, maybe if some big moster came around and started ripping off your limbs would that be ok in your view?

A lot of bad stuff happens every day that the media does not air, like the thousands of children in African and Asian countries that die from completely preventable causes, like starvation. So I can agree with you on that.

These tossers piss me off.

Blame canada.

[Rik]

"muaahahahah, I'm going to crush these little bastards"

[lotec]

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! At rik's post AHAHAHAA :D

[wtr]

As a cat owner who have raised two kittens since they were 2 weeks old, I just want to find those little heartless mother fuckers and lock them in a pitch down room and replay their cold blooded acts on the vcr to them over and over again, and if they dose off...I'll duck tape their eye lids wide open...oh yeah, I want them to die in agonising pain!!! Slow cold agonising pain!!!! I can't imagine the amount of pain that poor little thing had suffered... I just wish that justice will be done to punish those scums of man kind... They don't deserve to sing our national anthem, especially the "advance australia fair" part...

If they were good kids to begin with, will they be judged??!! BUT WERE THEY?!! Tolerance on murder is simply intolerable... Why do you think some trees branches aren't straight?! Because they were in fact bent and twisted while growing...

I feel much better now without the steam in my chest...

[Wattsy]

myself, havin a kitten at the moment, and losing a 17yo cat. i say to those mother fuckers, they need lots of help, they will never be accepted again cauz everone knows em as cauz they were shown on tv. its gonna be hard for them to get jobs now. so i think, suck the fuck into them, and if was my cat, they would be fucked up now.

[-DAvo]

thats truely sad to hear about those cats... those kids need a real kick(or 10)in the head! its times like this when you hope that karma really exists.. either way i agree that they should be made to feel large amounts of physical and emotional pain for a very long time! well i hope so anyway..

dunno what to write really.. the whole thing just sickens me..

[No_Style]

Minor threadjack for part one:

Lotec, are you in one of the states where they've said that younger guys can't drive V8's or turbo's?

Man that's a dumb rule. As one of the guys at work pointed out, you can be on a farm with a gutless turbo diesel ust and notb e allowed to drive it, can't drive a 253 monaro or a 5 litre torana cos they're V8's (or an XY, XA, XB etc 351 for same reason)

BUT you can go out and buy one of the top spec v6 Hemi Chargers (e49?)that they used for racing at bathurst and was just as fast if not more so. That's alright, that's a 6.

I can see the value of V6 chargers starting to soar already.

This is off topic but i thought i would clear this up.

No you can't go out and by a beast of a 6 cylinder, because they are introducing a power to weight ratio restriction....

That is truly sick torturing any animal for amusement. Let alone a totally defensless animal. Does anyone else remember the soldiers (i think in townsville) that were torturing kittens?
I can not comprehend why seeing something else in pain could ever be amusing or pleasurable...theres some really sick and twisted people out there, and to many that just don't care :mad:
I feel we have every right to judge those kids for their actions. How could doing what those kids have done every be right???? In any way shape or form :confused:

Full marks to Johnny's first post, I agree fully.

[johnny]

I think that the ethical boundaries regarding how we ought and ought not treat animals is relitive to sentience and self consciousness.

When looking at the actions of youths on a train station we must not consider our own emotional reaction to the fact that this was a kitten.

Don't get me wrong. I think that it was morally reprehensible, but because a kitten is clearly a sentient being and that there there is no ends to justify doing these things to a kitten.

Personally, I don't care if it's the queen of England or a cactus plant. I don't like to see anything suffering, and that includes the misguided youths that did this cruel act.

The acts of vengence suggested in this thread are no different to the initial act. If you return like punishment to the guilty, you are then guilty too. Cruelty is cruelty, no matter your reasons.

Reflexivity, look it up.

[No Skid Marks]

I don't think anyone has expressed interest in actually watching the little pricks suffer, I think most people are just expressing that they should be heavilly punished and that people are pissed off and maybee a good taste of pain is what they do need to understand the pain they caused. Linch th dickheads I say and if they fish then linch them with fishing line.

[danv]

Sorry if i'm dragging this on a bit, but I just read over what Ioriginally posted, and saw that it was a clumsily put together piece ofbabble that didn't exactly get my points across propery.
Basically, my main point, above all was that I was shocked that thiswas a national news story, and, having just caught a fish that day, hadthe thought "holy shit, I may as well have done this today".

I wasn't (and am not) saying wether this kind of behavior is right orwrong. Sure when you look at it on the face, you see people torturing akitten, it's easy to register that as being simply not right by anydecency. But IMO when you look at what happened you have to really haveto accept the broader and far more complex issue of how we treat otheranimals, animal rights, our conciousness/intelligence compared totheirs, etc.

I can understand people seeing a basic wrong being commited, and justresponding to that emotionally, and I am not going to disagree withthat, I can feel the same way. But as I said, I believe you haveto look at the wider issue or concept. The need for this is obvious assoon as people start comparing the kitten to a human being.

For those that said (or had the thought) to consider yourself in thekitten's position, consider being faced with choice of certain death ora turturous, temporary, surviveable ordeal (i'm assuming the kittenmakes it, back to reasonable health). Now think about wether you haveever eaten a ham sandwhich, or gone fishing, or swatted a fly? Putyourself in their shoes?

I think the whole issue of animal rights, and their place in the worldwith humans, is a massive and complex issue, one that goes right backto mystery of life itself, one that I have been considering at themoment, and which has been blowing my mind. This is why I didn'tjust say 'oh my god poor kitten shoot the kids' as soon as I saw whathappened. I am CERTAINLY not "excusing" what they did, or saying that Ihave no problem with it. I simply do not know wether I do have aproblem or not, and so am not commenting on wether the ACT was right orwrong.

On the point of judging the kids, I was referring to the superficialand most likely biased news reports of what happened. How do you knowone of the kids wasn't completely pushed into it by peer pressure, anddid not want to be involved at all? Maybe it was even more serious thanthat, and they too faced being attacked by the other kids if theydidn't participate? Maybe they were all completely dellusional ondrugs? Maybe it was an initiation ritual for a cult, and they werebrainwashed? I'm just making up scenarios to try and get people toconcieve what i'm trying to say, but basically, you don't know whothese people were, what their motives were, and how concious they wereof what they were doing. That is why it is hard to judge them. Ofcourse it's quite likely they were just sadists, but assuming that andthen judging them is different. I believe it is unfair to make thatassumption from what LITTLE we know.

Johhny, I found your response to my post quite interesting, and willrespond to it when I have the capacity to do so properly. But one thingI really want to point out is that me saying that this kind of stuffhappens all the time in volumes, and in more socially acceptablecircumstance, and therefore a single incident is not important, was NOTsaying that therefore it's okay, or it doesn't really matter in termsof moral considerations. I was saying it in terms of the news coverage,and also, in terms of how it can be hypocritical for some people togive this much attention to what happened, or to even claim that it iswrong.

I think you missed the point of what I was trying to say (most likelymy fault). I was certainly NOT saying that the fact "things of a lesseror greater nature occur regularly" detracts from the seriousness orweight of any incidence. It does however, detract from the newsworthiness (by which I mean what should be news worthy), and also (andI think that this is one of the main point's i'm getting at), any claimmade by someone who fishes or hunts* that the act was aborhent, andthat the kids should be crucified.

*And this is what blows me. When I think about this classification ofpeople, I think why doesn't that include people who swat flies or stepon ants or spray antibacterial spray or who don't even considerclearing the insects from a crop before going through with the combineharvester to produce wheatgrass juice for vegan hippies...

I've realised i'm in a similarly sleep deprived state to what I waswhen I wrote the first post, but I've tried alot harder to be coherentand make my points clear. I am not a sadist, or person who will simplydisregard something that could be important as what I see human life tobe, or an act that could be as bad as torturing a human. Trust me, Iwant to try and do the 'right thing', but I think about things toomuch...

[danv]

Bloody words are sticking together and I don't know why!!! :mad: Sorry...
(made this as a new post because edits seem to make it worse)

[Uncle Toby]

i was told by my mum that it is big news because they overruled the law of releasing pictures of the kids

[No Skid Marks]

Don't forget to eat baby sheap today like a brain washed Assie Neadertol.
And remember, like Jesus they suffered for you.

[No_Style]

On the point of judging the kids, I was referring to the superficialand most likely biased news reports of what happened. How do you knowone of the kids wasn't completely pushed into it by peer pressure, anddid not want to be involved at all? Maybe it was even more serious thanthat, and they too faced being attacked by the other kids if theydidn't participate? Maybe they were all completely dellusional ondrugs? Maybe it was an initiation ritual for a cult, and they werebrainwashed? I'm just making up scenarios to try and get people toconcieve what i'm trying to say, but basically, you don't know whothese people were, what their motives were, and how concious they wereof what they were doing. That is why it is hard to judge them. Ofcourse it's quite likely they were just sadists, but assuming that andthen judging them is different. I believe it is unfair to make thatassumption from what LITTLE we know.

I want to comment briefly on this. Let me first point out, i can understand the essential point you are trying to make, since we don't know all the details then we are in no position to judge (i think thats your main point anyhow).

This is in IMO the only relevant scenario (highly unlikely but hey), against peer pressure you can go against it. It's bloody hard but it is more than possible. Even if he didn't want ot be involved, the said child is still responsible for their actions. And please don't try and tell me that a child may not have known any better, even other animals can tell when something is in distress, if a kid can't do that then theirs little hope for their future is there?
I also think it stupidly unlikely that they faced a physical threat, but this is possible, and in which case they would be judged based on the fact that the act they had committed was under circumstances of coercion.

How is this in anyway an excuse for your actions? 'Yeah, sorry mate, i was on a complete bender before i got behind the wheel and ran that kid over...but you know how it is, it wasn't my fault it was the alcohol...' Thats not a terribly convincing defence in any situation and is never an excuse for your action, it's your own fault for being in the that position (i.e. under the influence of some form of drug). To further assume that this was the case, these kids then managed to make a good old fashioned run for it, which generally speaking would indicate that they weren't under the influence of a severly intoxicating substance.

Once again, your still responsible for your voluntary actions, unless this was to fall under the circumstance of threat to themselves by other people in this group that they wanted to join, in which case your first point is more relevant, otherwise they are still totally responsible for their actions. I'm not knowledgable enough in the matter of brainwashing to comment, suffice to say that i deem it an unlikely circumstance.

In all but one of those scenarios, they should be judged for voluntary action. Not to mention be potentially charged with drug use etc...
Further to this, we rarely if ever, know all the details of any given situation but we constantly stand in judgment of people, both officially in courts etc, but also at a personal level when we make judgements of other people. I judge peoples actions based on my own experience, i'll never know theirs so that form the basis for me personally, in this instance it would be something that i certainly deem to be wrong by my moral and ethical standards.

I do realise that these scenarios are examples, for you to point out how little we know of the circumstances, but frankly most of them have little influence as far as i'm concerned.

I do however agree with you that this is far from a news worthy article, just the same as this listening device at Nicole Kidmans house...I mean wtf who gives a crap let her sort it out and i don't care in the slightest. Sensationalism is something that we have to live with. As someone else mentioned ABC tends to have the least sensationalist news, or else SBS is also pretty matter of fact and certainly more globally based.

[BuStA]

I fucken HATE losing long posts.:mad::mad:

But I hate channel ten news more. It's not news, it's a reality show,and the fact that this story about a fucking kitten made the lead is afucken, fucken joke.

I don't see how anyone can judge these kids, this kind of shit goes onall the time the same, maybe sometimes to lesser extremes, or adheringto more socially acceptable scenarios. When I go fishing, I attatch apiece of bait to a HOOK and that then the gets PUSHED INTO THE MOUTH OFTHE FISH and can sometimes go right through and pierce the outsideskin. Alternatively the fish can SWALLOW THE HOOK, AND IT LODGES INTHEIR GUT (keeping in mind that the hook can be about the size of adecent feed, think of a hook about the same size as your roast dinner).I then pull on the line which pulls on the hook, dragging the fish backto the boat by the hook that is through thier mouth or gut. Imaginesomeone forcing you to do <ahref="http://forums.farkin.net/showthread.php?t=23631">this</a>,but with the hook through your mouth, and then drage you along theground for 50m or so?

I've seen all sorts of crazy things done to fish, crabs, yabbies, flysby kids, that would easily ammount to torture for amusement if doneto a human. Ever ripped the wings of a fly? I've collected a craband ripped its pincers of to keep him as a companion. I'm not sayingthat it's right or wrong, i'm saying it happens all the time, sometimesit appears less sinister on the face of it, sometimes not, but the waypeople react is all about how it appears on the face. Torturing agrasshopper the same way as these kids did would simply not getanyone's attention,

No one is in a position to judge these kids, and no fuckwit can claimthat these kids will grow up to be sociopaths. Obviously in oursociety, animals are seen is different to humans, and this fundamentaldistinction can manifest in different ways. Maybe one of the kids willbecome a rapist or serial killer. Maybe one of them will feel extremelyguilty and end up being and RSPCA officer. Maybe one of them willforget about it a few months later. And maybe one of them will chowdown on a ham sandwich and think what the fuck is the difference?

I'm tired and incoherent, but what i'm mainly trying to say is WHY THEFUCK IS THIS A NATIONAL NEWS STORY? Why is this the most importantthing that happened today?

You do relize that thousands of test and shit have been conducted and nearly everyone has shown that fish dont feel pain. They only fight (When hooked) because they relize something is wrong but are to stupid to relize what...

As for the little f*cks that done that shit to the cat, They should have there f*cking head stomped on... Fare enough that sh*t goes on everywhere but no-one sees the others... What stupid c*nt hurts an animal that cant fight back??? As someone else said, do it to a grizzly and see how tuff the stupid little c*nts are!!!

[BuStA]

How do you knowone of the kids wasn't completely pushed into it by peer pressure, anddid not want to be involved at all? Maybe it was even more serious thanthat, and they too faced being attacked by the other kids if theydidn't participate?

The difference between the cat being attacked and those kids being attacked from other kids is that they can stick up for themselfs and fight back but what can the cat do you dumb c*nt... Honestly read what you are writting and think about it...

[danv]

The difference between the cat being attacked andthosekids being attacked from other kids is that they can stick upforthemselfs and fight back but what can the cat do you dumbcunt...Honestly read what you are writting and think about it...
So what? It's okay for humans to attack other humans because they can fight back? What are you trying to say?

BTW I would love you to reference these "thousands of test and shit"that you say have unanimously shown that fish don't feel pain.

[No_Style]

I think the point Busta is trying to make is that there is a difference between attacking something that can fight back and something that cannot. I assume Danv, that you agree their is a definite difference between shooting someone that is shooting at you, and shooting someone on their knees in the back of the head when they are tied up (to take the point to an extreme). Again the old concept of pick on someone (something) your own size is IMO very true.

I don't think Busta is saying it's all good to attack humans because they can fight back, simply that atleast then it would be a fairer fight, not that torture ever is.....I stand by what i said in my first post on this topic.

However Busta you might wanna tone it down a bit, Danv is just putting forward his view, you don't need to tear him to shreds for it however stupid you think it is. I don't think the mods will look at your insults to happily either this is afterall ment to be a family forum.

[BuStA]

So what? It's okay for humans to attack other humans because they can fight back? What are you trying to say?

BTW I would love you to reference these "thousands of test and shit"that you say have unanimously shown that fish don't feel pain.

Sorry I will tone it down a bit...

As for your first Q, I dont think that any fighting is good... I just think that wouldnt it be a bit more fare for two humans to go one on one then for a human and a kitten to go one on one???

And as for your second one-

http://www.fishnet.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=26322&forum=1&view_post_id=234821

This was discused on Australia's biggest fishing forums.

Out of all the test's conducted there was only a few that said they do feel pain and one of those test's where conducted by the Greenies (Go figure)...

If you are unhappy with the opinions of those guy's and university's then I would be more then happy to find you some more... (As I said a few have shown fish feel pain)...

[villy]

That sick cunt on his bike had the filthiest hair. And those kid bashing that kitten that was just wrong hey should burn in hell

[johnny]

Johhny, I found your response to my post quite interesting, and willrespond to it when I have the capacity to do so properly. But one thingI really want to point out is that me saying that this kind of stuffhappens all the time in volumes, and in more socially acceptablecircumstance, and therefore a single incident is not important, was NOTsaying that therefore it's okay, or it doesn't really matter in termsof moral considerations. I was saying it in terms of the news coverage,and also, in terms of how it can be hypocritical for some people togive this much attention to what happened, or to even claim that it iswrong.

I think you missed the point of what I was trying to say (most likelymy fault). I was certainly NOT saying that the fact "things of a lesseror greater nature occur regularly" detracts from the seriousness orweight of any incidence. It does however, detract from the newsworthiness (by which I mean what should be news worthy), and also (andI think that this is one of the main point's i'm getting at), any claimmade by someone who fishes or hunts* that the act was aborhent, andthat the kids should be crucified.

*And this is what blows me. When I think about this classification ofpeople, I think why doesn't that include people who swat flies or stepon ants or spray antibacterial spray or who don't even considerclearing the insects from a crop before going through with the combineharvester to produce wheatgrass juice for vegan hippies...



First off, I completely agree with you on the "newsworthiness" of this issue. The presenters know how much this story will activate public opinion and feedback, therefore they run with it. Advertising revenue, nuff said.

As for the swatting of flies, hunting (I won't enter the fishing debate except to say one thing BUSTA: You claim that the study done by the greenies should be taken with a grain of salt, well under that rationalle, so should any study done by fisheries industries along with anyone who's ever baited a hook. That probably doesn't leave many studies to go by) and other forms of killing: I do not disagree with these practices. Much of life is based on death. Whether it be the dead hollowed out tree that houses birds, insects and new plant life or the shark eating fish/humans or any other carnivore. As a matter of fact, do we actually eat much that has never actually lived?

Killing is fine (as long as it's not endangered, done without reason etc.) providing there is no needless suffering. When living in Sth East Asia, I killed MANY mosquitos, if not, I may have contracted malaria, dengue fever or any other virus/disease. This is the cycle of life. Torture doesn't enter into this cycle (save maybe for the nature of cats). take for instance the wasp that implants it's larvae under the shell of the lady beetle. The larvae eats the brainstem of the beetle disabling it, yet the beetle lives. Over two days the larvae eats the beetles insides out and emerges as a wasp leaving the beetle to die of starvation or infection. Probably one of the most torturous exisances I've ever come across, yet is it wrong? No, not IMO because it's part of the cycle of life. same goes for killing insects, eating lamb or fish or vegetable/fruit.

As for my reaction, as I've posted before, it wouldn't bother me if it was an ant or Desmond Tutu who's suffing, I don't like it......no distinction is drawn by me. I actually do not like cats at all, I don't trust them, they have sharper nails than I and they are decimating indigenous species. So I don't care if they all die enmasse, but I do not wish them to suffer in the process. I don't even look at the animal in situations like this, I look at the attitude, mentality, actions and motivations of the people committing the act. These guys were kids who (hopefully) will regret their acts and never repeat them.

I also agree with you on looking at the kids that did it. Why do they not have the same values as the people posting on the forum, what are their families like, was there a ring leader (I've hardly seen any of the footage, and I'd rather not either thanks), where did the kitten come from, was it an attack on the owner of the kitten rather than the kitten itself (hey, that would be constituted as a terrorist act by definition ;) ). How did it come to this is what we should be asking. Only when you empathise with your enemy will you ever understand their true motivations giving you the opportunity to manipulate any further behaviours.

don't bust yourself up too much over existance and it's properties. Maybe the reason to life is to enjoy it while you have the chance.

Once again, I will ask how torturing the guilty in this situation is any better than the deed committed:
They should burn in hell

They should have there f*cking head stomped on

those kids need a real kick(or 10)in the head!

I want them to die in agonising pain!!! Slow cold agonising pain!!!!

These are only the quotes off this page, there are many others in the two previous pages. torturing the torturor doesn't have much chance of stopping them from doing it again in my opinion. If stopping any future incidences is not your motivation, then it must be pure vengence. that is no less brutal than the original act. Better to use the anger to motivate change instead of a cycle of more suffering IMO.

[floody]

eat baby sheap today like a brain washed Assie Neadertol.


Ha, irony.

[johnny]

Just an update.......

Threats against teen accused of kitten tortureFebruary 10, 2005 - 12:06PM


A teenager charged with aggravated cruelty following an attack on a kitten at a Sydney railway station had been threatened with violence, police said today. Christopher Leigh Herreros, 18, of Tregear, in Sydney's west, made a brief appearance in Blacktown Local Court today. He was charged with one count of aggravated cruelty to an animal following the January 21 attack on the kitten. Named Shelley after her rescuer, policewoman Michelle Moy, the eight-week-old stray was allegedly stoned, stomped on and twice ran over with a bicycle at the Seven Hills railway station.

Herreros did not enter a plea today and Registrar Gary Northcote continued his bail. The matter was adjourned to March 24.Outside court, Blacktown Duty Officer Gary Raymond said there had been community outrage over the case, including "unsubstantiated" threats of physical violence towards Herreros.

Inspector Raymond said it was a "highly emotional" case and there had been a number of phone calls to police stations from community members expressing outrage. "There's community outrage and that's understandable ... we're just asking the community to let justice take its course," he said.

RSPCA Chief Inspector Don Robinson said he could understand why people were so angry about the attack. "We certainly hope that it doesn't lead into copycat events," he said outside the court. Insp Robinson said Shelley was now safe in a foster home. A 15-year-old is expected to face court this month over the attack, while a third teenager, also aged 15, escaped charge but will be counselled.

AAP

Not sure if printing the blokes name and where abouts is a very smart thing to do though............

[scblack]

Not sure if printing the blokes name and where abouts is a very smart thing to do though............

Once you're in court, it's a matter of public record though.

But journalistic "ethics" (is there such a thing?) may have been slightly skewed to print them in the paper.

[wtr]

But journalistic "ethics" (is there such a thing?) may have been slightly skewed to print them in the paper.

I absolutely agree. It's everywhere...