Cannabis on Four Corners

[ashhash]

Hey all

Just wondering;

a) How many people enjoy the herb on here?
b) Who saw Four Corners on ABC last night?

Really just posting this to say how pissed off I am about that program!
In my opinion it seemed extremely biased.


They were touting this "new study" which was basically saying that smoking pot makes you very suseptible to schizophrenia/psychotic episodes and whatever but the study appeared to be of people who smoked VERY heavily (20 cones + per day) and had other heavy shit happening in their lives (family breakdown, abuse, poly drug use and pre-existing psychiatric problems)

As a very part time user I agree that smoking anything is bad for your health as far as lung problems etc go and also that if you suffer from a mental illness then you should probably stay away from weed (and other drugs for that matter) but I get really pissed off to see stuff like this getting airtime. (particulary when its on ABC!)

Anyone else agree here or am I going off at nothing?

Cheers
Ash

[nhd]

tssssssssssssssssst, yeah......... would hate to see research being showed on tv to the general populace.

[farkus]

i dont know about the pot issue but my friends mate who is 55-60(esstamation) has been smoking tobacco scince he was 17 and has perfect lungs from a scan he had. ive heard that smoking 'the bud' can have a good effect.

[ashhash]

tssssssssssssssssst, yeah......... would hate to see research being showed on tv to the general populace. ]

My point exactly man....WHAT FUCKING RESEARCH!
Did you even see the show?

Unless youve got something useful to say then get bent!

(please accept my apologies if ive misunderstood your post but otherwise see above)

[®ider]

yer i enjoy the herb...

i didnt get the watch the show, it was probably based with utter bullshit like all anti drug programs.

[konasaurus]

I also enjoy the herd ...

and have nothing else constructive to say ...

[cressa]

Smoke weed it is good for your health.
Don't watch TV it is bad for your health.

So my answer is yes, i do enjoy the 'erb, and as for studies pffft... everyone knows everything gives you cancer these days!!!!

[Tomas]

My mum wouldnt have missed that for the world. She's a lecturuer in neuropsychology and yeh. It seemed very important to her for some reason... Couldnt think why :rolleyes: .

[dickyknee]

I used to enjoy the weed and would smoke 30-40 cones a day ( gave it away over 11 years ago ) , i did not see the show , but can vouch first hand that pot does screw you up if you smoke enough of it .
but each to their own , i dont have a prob with it , just dont do it any more.

[notb4dinner]

My mum wouldnt have missed that for the world. She's a lecturuer in neuropsychology and yeh. It seemed very important to her for some reason... Couldnt think why :rolleyes: .
So what does she have to say about it?

[FR Drew]

Given tha fact that one of my buddies from school had borderline ultra mild scizophrenia (so mild that no one bar his family knew about it at all) and now he has a vocab of about 40 words and has spent a few years in Glenside and other mental services places due to having a bit of a herb habit, maybe you should go fold your righteous indignation till it's all corners and shove it...

It's all well and good for the junior brigade to go "what research" "farkin straight laced spoilers" "tryin to ruin my harmless sessions" etc etc and WTF else.

I've seen a good buddy get seriously fucked up. He wasn't taking anything heavier than dope, no amphetamines, no mushies, no nothing. Just beers and bongs. Perhaps instead of getting on your high horse you might put the bong down and take a look outside at the real world. You never know, someone might actually be trying to warn you about a risk you didn't know about that could screw up your life for good.

I mean, far out, there's a guy on who's had like 6 months in therapy and 3 subesquent relapses and he's still "oh,well yeah, umm, I still smoke a bit now and then" How much of a farkin warning sign do you need before you say this might have a negative effect on you and perhaps you should be a bit careful?

Yeah, I've had a few in my time, I've worked with some folks who had a 30+ cone a day habit and were pretty much fine too. That said, the one guy who I saw get messed up by it was enough to convince me that it's NOT

that was

NOT (in case you might have missed it)

a risk free habit to have.

Not everyone gives up and walks away unscathed. Most do and that's great. It's the ones that don't that make it a risk.

I guess if I told you that some people will just keel over dead the first time they try coke, even if it's just a small dose you'd be indignant about that too? Sure, 99.9% of people are fine, you wanna see if you're the 0.1% or maybe just tell the mum of the kid who was the 0.1% that you shared a bit of a line with that she's blowing it all out of proportion too?

[nitwit]

Ofcourse there are risks invovled, any drug has risks including all prescription drugs sold over the counter. What risks are involved in the sport we do, shit, fuckin heaps. We risk our own safety everytime we jump on the bike, hell breathing the air on my ride to Tafe through the city is probably worse that smoking a few bongs a day. I personally think that smoking more than a few times a week is a bit overboard but on the other hand i know people that have been heavy (pot) smokers their whole lives and are some of the most sane people i know.

I did not see the program last night but think that most of the reasearch done into cannabis or any drug for that matter has a biased view point. I had a mate that got drug induced pshycosis from pot but it is not a common thing. Fuck, lots of things can pre-dispose someone to scizophrenia, including genetic predisposition, lifestyle changes, finance problems but most of it has to do with biology. Hell, i know of people with it that have not touched drugs in their life. Drugs are bad, period but so is some of the things we eat, drink and breath everyday. If someone cannot realise there is a risk involved with drug taking they are either very stupid or niave.

I enjoy weed every now and then and think it has benefits for some a not for others. I do not condone using drugs but it is all in the eyes of the beholder, I have been taking prescirtion drugs for over three years because of circumstances beyond my control and have had a great deal more problems from them then i did when being a heavy pot smoker as a teenager.

And for those that say pot leads on to heavier drugs, pffft, that is a joke, regardless of what drug that person started on they were succeptible to becoming a drug abuser.

[naz]

a) marijuana effects everyone differently its exactly like alcohol, some people can have 10cones and still act straight where as some will green from one, some people will have psycosis after 1year, 10 years 20 years or NEVER. really in reality u can tell if it fuckin u up, i knew it was slowely fuckin with me so now i barely smoke, dont feel any different.

all these horror stories as bad as they may sound are only a percentage not everyone, its like someone who works in a rehab centre, because all they see all day is drug fucked people they think drugs for everyone will fuck with them. not true buddy.

a friends dad has been smokin joints everyday since he was 15 years old(hes in his 40's) and hes fine u wouldnt think of him as a smoker.

its all relative. and ofcourse the government (here esp) will never legalise weed they couldnt control(tax) its production and distribution. becuase its too easy to grow,

theres no point tryin to justify drugs, there socially unacceptable, morally unacceptable, and because of the media drug users have been stereotyped, but ud be fucken surprised with a lot of drug users.

though i must say last year drugs did fuck me over, i was smokin from the moment i woke up throughout school and till i was asleep for a solid 8months, i lost my relationship with my parents, with my good friends, i became anti social, me n my gf became too attached and after a while we realised we never mixed with other friends, at the end we realised split up i was devastated, but got over it, got back on track got a job, etc. i must say as much as i regret the year it was due to drugs but only because of the amount.

i dont believe in media's perception of drugs or its culture, nor do i wish to be as i was last year, one of the best resources i found for drugs is www.erowid.com, there is tonnes of information, read all about it from several sources make your own judgement.

[johnny]

Didn't see four corners, but not sure as to how cannabis intensifying the symptomes of schizphrenia in sufferers, is new news. Having recently done 3 years of psych with an emphasis on neuro, I've heard/read about this for ages, It's pretty widely accepted.

I can't remember the full deal, but I think it was along the lines of: Male, Have to be predisposed/already suffering schiz, and have to have heavy drug use between 18-30.........don't quote me, but I think that's how it goes.

Mate of mine jumped after 3-4 years of heavy schiz about 6 months ago. He was a heavy doper, I wonder if it had anything to do with it.

[FR Drew]

I'm certainly not saying that it's common, it's the only case I've ever personally seen where it's had an effect like that.

If you saw the program, you would have seen that there were NO police or law enforcement people on it at all. There was no "message" to say drugs are bad, don't do drugs. All they were saying is that in some cases, heavy use can trigger psychosis. In the case of my friend, it is believed that he already had a very mild pre exisiting condition.

You wouldn't send a buddy to the Red Bull Rampage without warning them that they might get hurt and that there were risks involved. At the same time you'd say anyone saying "Mountain Biking Will Kill You" was a tool.

That's called HARM MINIMISATION.

Maybe the reason you saw a program explaining some of the risks without a DRUGS ARE BAD mesage being rammed down your throat as well, was precisely because it *was* on the ABC.

[ashhash]

Thanks for the replies all, some good points there.

FR Drew - I have also had mates who have gone off the deep end.
My mother is a nurse who has seen similar episodes.
I have smoked weed for 10 years and am as healthy and mentally sound as the day I started.

it's all well and good for the junior brigade to go "what research" "farkin straight laced spoilers" "tryin to ruin my harmless sessions" etc etc and WTF else.
Assumption is the mother of all fuckups Drew....you dont know me mate
Im not that young and im not a pot head.

I mean, far out, there's a guy on who's had like 6 months in therapy and 3 subesquent relapses and he's still "oh,well yeah, umm, I still smoke a bit now and then" How much of a farkin warning sign do you need before you say this might have a negative effect on you and perhaps you should be a bit careful?
Yes and how much of a dickhead is that dude.
If he keeps smoking when he knows it is bad for him then he deserves to be fucked over.
This is the sort of people that show revolved around.

All im saying is that some things dont agree with some people, people should use their fucking heads.

really in reality u can tell if it fuckin u up,
I cant eat some foods because im allergic. Some people cant handle alcohol.
Some people can smoke ganja because it fucks with their head.
If they continue to smoke when they know that it affects them badly then STIFF SHIT - STOP SMOKING!

Perhaps instead of getting on your high horse you might put the bong down and take a look outside at the real world. You never know, someone might actually be trying to warn you about a risk you didn't know about that could screw up your life for good.
I dont agree about the "risk" that was portrayed here, I have done enough of my own research into studies done on ganja to realise that weed is perfectly safe if done in moderation (as with anything really).
And as I said this show focused on VERY heavy users of weed AND other drugs so its not relevant to and reflects badly on most weed users.

Hope thats not to righteous for you FR Drew.....

Ash

[FR Drew]

Cool, fair cop. I never said you were young and I never said you were a pot head.

You started out by saying that you were extremely pissed off by the report.

I watched all of the report and it looked to me like they were interviewing a pretty wide range of people who had regularly treated, had to deal with or who had suffered from the problems it can cause. If you talk to people in a drug rehab centre, they'll talk to you about addiction. Not everyone who uses drugs is an addict. Same thing, people working in a psychotic treatment centre will talk about patients with psychoses.

I was more pissed off by the swimmy screen shots and the easy target of putting Cypress Hill "I Wanna Get High" in as the background music. It's a bit like Steppenwolf "Born to Be Wild" for whenever you do anything about bikies.

I don't recall it being touted as cutting edge research. From the sounds of it it's something lots of people have known about for years.

It seemed far less biased than anything I've ever seen on the drugs topic on 60 minutes, today tonight or a current affair. Seemed to be simply looking at the effects it had on a certain group of succeptible individuals. I don't see what there was to be pissed off about.

It does happen that some people get messed up, why should it not get airtime? Better to know about the risk than suffer the consequences. Or to be able to look out for the warning signs.

Apologies Ashhash, I wasn't trying to attack you. Should know by now not to type forum after beer. (see, drugs are bad after all)

Personally, after seeing the damage done to my mate, I consider the risk to be very real and was really interested to see if there was anything new that they had to report.

Mostly it appeared to confirm what we already knew although I wasn't aware about ongoing relapses after coming out of it. My mate, as far as I know, pretty much stayed messed up. I thought recurring flashbacks and relapses were more the territory of acid, amphetamines etc, not weed.

[99Coconuts]

personally, i reckon its all to do with how you smoke it, no different to grog eh. when i was a young fella (do i sound like an old fart enuff :p ) i used to drink my bourbon straight and thought that joints were for the weak. 4 years of that saw me with some serious stomach problems and a set of lungs that couldn't handle a 2k ride at a slow pace :( not to mention all the illnesses that came from generally being in a weakened condition all the time. colds and flus took hold easy as and lasted ages and throat infections were all too common (not being able to eat solids for a fortnight aint pleasant)

i straightened up my act a bit a couple of years ago and havn't looked back. i broke the bong and switched to joints, well bugger me if that didn't sort me out almost immediately. all of a sudden my brain started working again, sleeping patterns became regular again, i actually felt like doing stuff and the mood swings pretty much stopped dead in their tracks. its amazing what a change in the way you do something can change your life completely.

i've got no beef with pot, i love it still, but it can cause problems when used in excess and does do so more often than not. the biggest issue is that you refuse to see it and keep on telling yourself that everythings peachy. every one of my mates and family members that have been into the bongs have had similar issues to me (some worse, some better) and those that quit completely or switched to spliffs all have the same stories of 'waking up'



i still reckon alcohol is MUCH more dangerous than pot, but its socially acceptable and much more fun with company so it'll never get banned. fact is, theres no safe drug out there, just dont go the whole hack with anything and you should be right. its all fun and most ppls grow out of it, i reckon shows like we're talking about here just have the wrong approach. start telling ppls the dangers of overdoing it and they might listen a little, this whole 'dont do what johnny dont does' approach is just a waste of breath.....

[ashhash]

Hehe yeah I fully agree with the beer+forum comment....I should know better also... :D
No hard feelings mate.

Really what annoyed me is that many of the statistics and stuff that they were showing we not concrete evidence of anything.
They were just showing that 70% of people who have had a psychotic episode have also used cannabis at some stage.
To me that doesnt prove or disprove anything.

Anyway its a very complex issue I suppose....

Heres one of the interviews that they showed;
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2005/s1316074.htm

Cheers
Ash

[scblack]

I'm not fond of the herb, it can make me pretty messy. But hey, if you like it, away you go. I'm not stopping anybody.

But I will comment on point made by a few above. There has been a few guys saying they, or those they know, who are smoking 20,30,40 cones a day. I reckon it is fully warranted to call that abuse, and would, over an extended period of time, surely have a very negative effect on anybody.

If you were drinking 20 beers a day for a year or more, you would be a blithering mess of a person, same if you were popping 20-40 panadols a day it would mess you over. Doesn't matter what the substance is, that sort of abuse has to mess you up to some extent.

[orchie]

I dont agree about the "risk" that was portrayed here, I have done enough of my own research into studies done on ganja to realise that weed is perfectly safe if done in moderation (as with anything really).


Not to be a dick, but what kind of research have you done? Do you mean you've read various studies etc and formed your own opinions or have you actually done scientific studies into this?

Grant

[timmo]

Hey all

Just wondering;

a) How many people enjoy the herb on here?
b) Who saw Four Corners on ABC last night?

Really just posting this to say how pissed off I am about that program!
In my opinion it seemed extremely biased.


They were touting this "new study" which was basically saying that smoking pot makes you very suseptible to schizophrenia/psychotic episodes and whatever but the study appeared to be of people who smoked VERY heavily (20 cones + per day) and had other heavy shit happening in their lives (family breakdown, abuse, poly drug use and pre-existing psychiatric problems)

As a very part time user I agree that smoking anything is bad for your health as far as lung problems etc go and also that if you suffer from a mental illness then you should probably stay away from weed (and other drugs for that matter) but I get really pissed off to see stuff like this getting airtime. (particulary when its on ABC!)

Anyone else agree here or am I going off at nothing?

Cheers
Ash

Yeah I watched that report too. I was initially channel flicking, but saw that and was interested and stayed on it.
I don't really get what you're pissed off about though (even after reading this whole thread). The program was dealing with the issue of schizophrenia and cannabis use, and as far as I recall, there was nothing saying "DON'T EVER SMOKE POT CAUSE IT'LL GIVE YOU SCHIZOPHRENIA", it was just saying that there is always SOME risk, as you never really know what it will take to bring on schizophrenia for you until you get it.

My understanding is that the heart of the issue (and what the new study was saying) was really whether cannabis use can bring on schizophrenia/psychosis in people who would be otherwise at almost no risk.

The confusing aspect I found about the report was in determining what level of risk someone was at without cannabis use.

The most useful analogy they used was one which said look at it as a bucket, if you already have a family history of schizophrenia the bucket might start off say half full, other environmental effects eg. stress may fill it another quarter and the question is can cannabis use tip you over into psychotic symptoms.
Then the issue mentioned before - can you start off with an empty bucket and fill it purely by cannabis use?

So, in this case, I think it could be expected that they are dealing with the heavy users, really. With them the contribution made by pot smoking is far more obvious.

In my personal case, I have used pot a bit in the past, but definitely as an occasional thing (on more occasions while at uni) but basically choose not to these days, as 1) I don't especially enjoy the effects on me, 2) I feel (with no real basis to it, admittedly) that I may be at risk of damaging my mental health and 3) because I have a flatmate who has suffered schizophrenia as a result of drug use (not pot) and I don't want to risk it.

Anyway I'm off to the pub to get smashed ;)

Cheers
Tim

[ashhash]

my own research into studies
Ive read many studies and formed my own opinion.
SCBlack summed it up I think
There has been a few guys saying they, or those they know, who are smoking 20,30,40 cones a day. I reckon it is fully warranted to call that abuse, and would, over an extended period of time, surely have a very negative effect on anybody.
Anyway I'm off to the pub to get smashed
Me too :D

[vgisit]

Long term use ( 10 + years every day ) can defintely effect your mental well being. You may not become psycotic but it will fcuk with your head.
Take it from someone who has smoked for many years. It was great fun but in the long term it can mess you up.
It may be subtle changes that you yourself don't notice, but others arounnd you can.

I knew it was time to stop when I started getting depressed for no real reason.

Like all things, good in moderation

[johnny]

But I will comment on point made by a few above. There has been a few guys saying they, or those they know, who are smoking 20,30,40 cones a day. I reckon it is fully warranted to call that abuse.

I agree 100%!

[GrubNut]

...interesting.

There can't be many other drugs that you could take everyday for 10+ years and not really notice the subtle changes in yourself. I guess that's something that's a bit incidiuos about it.. It can be used (abused) to high levels and still have a normal life (or least kid your self that you do).

Vgisit would you say that this heavy long term use has had a permanent effect?

In terms of research the jury is still out, and probably always will be, on whether these effects are permanent because the changes are likely to be too subtle and complex to measure properly.

However even if there is not a *direct permanent effect i can imagine that permanent effects can occur by the fact that you are putting your brain in an altered state all the time. If you accept that intelligence or memory or whatever is a "use it or lose it" kind of thing, like fitness or sporting prowess, then i can see permanent effects occuring that way.

I think one of the big underestimated negative effects is that you *miss out* on a lot interesting stuff in your life by being stoned all the time. /personalexperience

Buut.. All in all its got to be by far one of the most benign (least malevolent?) intoxicants out there, in my estimation.

now.. where's my Laudanum?

[99Coconuts]

Long term use ( 10 + years every day ) can defintely effect your mental well being. You may not become psycotic but it will fcuk with your head.
Take it from someone who has smoked for many years. It was great fun but in the long term it can mess you up.
It may be subtle changes that you yourself don't notice, but others arounnd you can.

I knew it was time to stop when I started getting depressed for no real reason.

Like all things, good in moderation


damn straight. great for a bit of fun but not something you want to do every day, it WILL take its toll. depression, mood swings, frustration over nothing, sleeplessness, memory loss, inability to deal with life without grabbing the bong :( not counting any serious mental illnesses that can be brought to the surface either.....

why does everything fun have to be bad for you or put you at risk in some way? :confused: :confused:

[danv]

I caught that program, it was interesting enough in showing a few individuals' stories, and different treatment methods being tried for sufferers of conditions stemming from over use / abuse - particularly young people.

The program very much focused on heavy or very heavy users, and heavy users suffering severe prolbems as a result of their use.

The main message I got from the program, was that Marijuana was not harmless on all levels, and in fact, in the right circumstances, the drug can cause major life changing problems. The program told me that major marijuana abuse results in a very high chance of psychological illness. It also told me the risk is still there at lower levels of use. I agree.

I think I agree with Johhny in that isn't exactly news - any peception that marijuana will not cause major problems under any circumstances (as in 'oh XXX smokes too much dope, so he's a little dotty and and a little dopey' and that's the extent of it), is quite dated.

It also served to re-enforce my suspicision that though dope mightn't be physically addictive, it can still be addictive, and cause very real cravings and withdrawl.
I had felt these things in the past, and wasn't entirely sure wether they were actually cravings or withdrawl (partly because i'd heard it wasn't addictive), but have now formed the view that they were.
But I also believe that severity and particulars of addiction vary greatly from person to person. People who might get addicted to dope might also be people who just need some form of drug for whatever reason, and so will feel they 'need' any drug that they start taking. In fact, dope might be less harmful in this kind of case, due to the fact it doesn't seem to be physically addictive.

[GrubNut]

Ah yes.. But one thing routinely overlooked by the commentators is that it is often mixed with tobacco - which is more addictive than heroin.

I *guarantee your 40 cone a day smokers are not doing straight dope!

Mix it with baccy and you get an entirely different beast to either of the two separately. So I don't buy the it's not physically addictive line at all.

now excuse me for a moment....

sluuuuurrrrrrrrrrrruup ..aahh

am i right or am i right?

[dickyknee]

Ah yes.. But one thing routinely overlooked by the commentators is that it is often mixed with tobacco - which is more addictive than heroin.

I *guarantee your 40 cone a day smokers are not doing straight dope!

Mix it with baccy and you get an entirely different beast to either of the two separately. So I don't buy the it's not physically addictive line at all.

now excuse me for a moment....

sluuuuurrrrrrrrrrrruup ..aahh

am i right or am i right?

As i said before i used to smoke a stupid amount of pot everyday , and mixed it will spin ( tobacco ) i never smoked ciggas until about 3 days after giving away the pot , i was addicted to the ciggas and did not even realised it .
i found it easy to stop the pot once i started smoking ciggas , i personally think that i was not addicted to pot but the ciggas , so if you must smoke pot leave out the spin .

[bazza]

well its an occasional thing with me and if i have a big enough session i get a bit down like 3 days later. this totally sucks. but appart from that i dont really have any other problems with it. dont do it regularly because of the way it messes with my head. so yeah. im glad my body reacts that way though.

[fastrider gus]

it doesnt help your riding much when you have someone in the back of your head telling you that everyone is against you and you are going to die a slow and painfull death AAAAAH!!! they're back again!!!

*runs away screaming holding head*

[Ryan]

it doesnt help your riding much when you have someone in the back of your head telling you that everyone is against you and you are going to die a slow and painfull death AAAAAH!!! they're back again!!!

*runs away screaming holding head*

I don't know...that could be some good motivation during your race run..."Gotta...get...back...to...esky....dig...voices.... out...with...spoon!..aiieeee!!!"