Pike Team Dual Airs acting like rigid out of the box?

[Techno Destructo]

I've sent off a question to the techs at RockShox, but I wanted to see if anyone could beat them to the punch with an answer for me...

I have just purchased a brand new RockShox Pike Team Dual Air fork with the Poploc Adjust.

The fork has never been adjusted by me or anyone one else since the factory I assume.

The first times I tried to compress the fork, the fork appears to be totally rigid, or has the lockout on. Having checked the lockout on the top of the right leg, it appeared to be off. I've turned the lockout dial just to check but nothing changed.

As I said before, no adjustments have been made to the fork yet. This includes adjustments to the air pressure in the positive and negative valves, or any dials turned. It is completely fresh out of the box.

Is this normal behavior for this fork or air forks in general? Does the fork come delivered needing adjustments before it can compress at all? Will the problem be solved by adjusting the air in the positive and negative valves?

I tried finding information about initial setup of the Pike Team Dual Air, but apart from the recommended air pressure for the rider's body weight, I couldn't find much information on initial setup of the fork.

I am VERY paranoid about hurting the fork or setting it up wrong, so I haven't done any forceful compressions with the fork or fiddling with adjustments yet. Does anyone know what to do to get my fork to start acting like a suspension fork?

[S.]

I've sent off a question to the techs at RockShox, but I wanted to see if anyone could beat them to the punch with an answer for me...

I have just purchased a brand new RockShox Pike Team Dual Air fork with the Poploc Adjust.

The fork has never been adjusted by me or anyone one else since the factory I assume.

The first times I tried to compress the fork, the fork appears to be totally rigid, or has the lockout on. Having checked the lockout on the top of the right leg, it appeared to be off. I've turned the lockout dial just to check but nothing changed.

As I said before, no adjustments have been made to the fork yet. This includes adjustments to the air pressure in the positive and negative valves, or any dials turned. It is completely fresh out of the box.

Is this normal behavior for this fork or air forks in general? Does the fork come delivered needing adjustments before it can compress at all? Will the problem be solved by adjusting the air in the positive and negative valves?

I tried finding information about initial setup of the Pike Team Dual Air, but apart from the recommended air pressure for the rider's body weight, I couldn't find much information on initial setup of the fork.

I am VERY paranoid about hurting the fork or setting it up wrong, so I haven't done any forceful compressions with the fork or fiddling with adjustments yet. Does anyone know what to do to get my fork to start acting like a suspension fork?

You haven't played with the positive and negative air pressures? That'd have to be the most obvious thing to try first... just check the pressures and release some from the positive chamber.

[Techno Destructo]

Yeah, that's what I was suspecting.

I haven't been able to get into the positive air valve since the cap on top is putting up a mega fight to come off.

I find it weird though that the fork wouldn't compress at all fresh out of the box. I guess shops would have to adjust things before putting one on display in the store?

[S.]

Yeah, that's what I was suspecting.

I haven't been able to get into the positive air valve since the cap on top is putting up a mega fight to come off.

I find it weird though that the fork wouldn't compress at all fresh out of the box. I guess shops would have to adjust things before putting one on display in the store?

I'm not sure why they would be like that, but I know that when they ship SPV shocks (or at least some of them), they pump them up to maximum pressure before shipping - again, not sure why, but it might be in case there is a slow leak, if you ride it it won't blow the guts out of it.

Alternatively your lockout switch is broken :)

[naz]

rob , ull find they could have pumped up pos chamber but left the negative empty ull find that will make the fork feel stiff as, or as S. said the motion control dampin is screwed.

i rebuilt my reba's yest dropped them to 80mm so stoed they still work

lol

rob, to make sure the forks arent fucked, run 100psi in pos n neg, they should be plush as, if still no movement uve got probs but make sure if u empty the air chambers, u always do negative then positive or the fork will get stuck down. lol. bit of tf2 on the staunchions can give it a hand with stiction (wipe off excess)

aall else fails go back to ba and give em shit

[Techno Destructo]

Thanks Steve and Naz!

To reinforce what you guys are saying, I was only able to access the negative valve on the bottom, since like I said, the top valve has a cover to it I haven't been able to get off yet.

I attached the shock pump to the negative valve, screwed it on, and I assume it would automatically register the psi in the valve when screwed on to a certain point?

Anyway, unless I had to press a certain button to read the air pressure (this is my first time using a shock pump, so I'm not 100% on it's functions...), the negative valve seemed to be empty. Just to check things, I gave it a few pumps, and put the psi up to about 30.

Then I remembered a warning from RockShox about how the negative pressure shouldn't exceed the positive pressure by 10 psi, got freaked out because I didn't know what the positive pressure was and didn't fully comprehend what I was doing, and let all the pressure out of the negative valve and haven't touched the fork again since.

Yes. I'm a little paranoid about this... :o

[naz]

really i was runnin 100 pos, 120 neg :s lol, well dude its been proved, pump the neg up to around 80, and tell me how the fork feels, its only coz the fork didnt have air in the neg chamber it felt rigid.

if ur up for a ride today pm me?

also the shock pump, screw it on and if ther is pressure it will show when u screw on the end enough, then its a matter of how much psi u wont, the little knob below the display thing is a bleed valve to let air back out if u pumped it up to much.

another thing with rock shox air forks, is the neg chamber is hell of a lot smaller than pos (duhh) and will take like no time to fill up .

[Techno Destructo]

Just to follow up, Steve and Naz were right on the money.

After seeing Brad and the Bike Addiction crew, who showed me how to access the positive valve (it is just a simple screw off... it was just really tight), I checked the pressure in the positive valve which, surprise surprise... was 100 psi.

So that means the forks were shipped (I assume) with 100 psi in the positive valve and 0 psi in the negative, which explains why they wouldn't compress at all. I suppose this was done to protect the forks in some way?

Anyhow, I pumped up the negative valve to 100 psi to match it, and lo and behold, they felt great!

Thanks guys and score one for Farkin!

[tnankie]

dude where did you get those forks and how much?

look like awesome forks and i want to put a set on an intense 5.5 when i get the cash.

i assume bike adiction but how many dinares?

cheers

[Techno Destructo]

Yep, Bike Addiction has a Pike Team Dual Air with Poploc. I think they were selling it for $1300?

Amazing fork. SO light for it's class!

You might want to check it out sooner rather than later, since there seems to be very few of this type of Pike on the market.

After weighing the old front end (125mm 2004 Psylo SL with a QR wheel) with the new front end (140mm Pike Team Dual Air with 20mm wheel), it was almost a pound lighter!!! :eek:

Haven't ridden on them yet, but after all the research I did on the fork, and reading just about every review on every bike website about them (mostly user reviews), and almost everyone having a glowing review, I'm sure I won't be dissappointed... :D

[naz]

hehe i know exactly what u mean rob, ive gone from 888r to reba race @ 80mm lol its fuken crazy to say the least, but my steerer is creakin so as soon as these fuck out im gettin pike dual airs.

have u had a good ride on them? omg the air is amazing they should run boxxxers with dual air lol its so plush and doesnt feel like a damn pogo stick :P

[Techno Destructo]

I've been meaning to ask you about that Naz...

Going from 888's to Reba's? That's a HUGE change!

Why such a dramatic change? What happened to the 888's?

Oh, and Naz, you do know that the Pike Team Dual Airs have a hollow crown and aluminum (I think) steerer?

Just mentioning it since I know how hard you ride.... ;)

[tnankie]

yeah but i think the race version has the same adjustments same everything (could be very wrong about that) but with a solid crown...so a bit heavier and a bit stronger. i asked a guy at sram/rock shox and he said

"As for which one is stronger, I would have to say that the race version might be a little bit stronger, but I don’t think we have any real evidence to back up that statement."

[naz]

I've been meaning to ask you about that Naz...

Going from 888's to Reba's? That's a HUGE change!

Why such a dramatic change? What happened to the 888's?

Oh, and Naz, you do know that the Pike Team Dual Airs have a hollow crown and aluminum (I think) steerer?

Just mentioning it since I know how hard you ride.... ;)

well i bought a stp @ chrismas fell in love with real street/park. decided to build my bike strong but rediciolously light (12.84kg) and thats with REBA's which are even lighter 1.5kg. i know the reba;s run a alloy steerer and thats already creakin i just hope they dont snap.

oh n i got over my huckin, into techy street/park these days

[Techno Destructo]

Yeah, that's definitely a consideration to make. Solid will almost always be stronger than hollow, but then again, my wife and I are in our 30's and we need lightness more than strength right now... :o

[S.]

Yeah, that's definitely a consideration to make. Solid will almost always be stronger than hollow...

For a given weight and single dimension, it's almost guaranteed that a hollow structure will be stronger than a solid one (unless you use some wacky shapes for the solid). Solid = inefficient.

[Techno Destructo]

For a given weight and single dimension, it's almost guaranteed that a hollow structure will be stronger than a solid one (unless you use some wacky shapes for the solid). Solid = inefficient.

Really? Seems to contradict common sense. I fully agree with you that it might be inefficient, but surely a solid cube of a substance would have more structural integrity than a hollow cube?

[S.]

Really? Seems to contradict common sense. I fully agree with you that it might be inefficient, but surely a solid cube of a substance would have more structural integrity than a hollow cube?

Depends on whether the outer dimensions are the common constraint, or whether you're using volumetric/mass dimensions as the common constraint. In other words, are you saying "for something of size L by W by H, what's the strongest you could make it with material X?" or are you saying "using 2500g of material X and a length of L [you need to define one dimension otherwise you have too many degrees of freedom), what's the strongest you could make it in order to resist bending/shear/pure compression/tension?"?

[tu plang]

a cube probably isnt a great example for a few reasons, but say a solid square section rod about 300mm long. if you were to say put it over a gap in two tables and apply a load to the middle the majority of the tension (which in this case are on the underside) and compression forces (top side) are acting on the outter most material. material towards the centre is pretty much doing nothing but making it heavy.

[Techno Destructo]

Oh well... that's what I get for doing business instead of engineering at university... :(

[S.]

a cube probably isnt a great example for a few reasons, but say a solid square section rod about 300mm long. if you were to say put it over a gap in two tables and apply a load to the middle the majority of the tension (which in this case are on the underside) and compression forces (top side) are acting on the outter most material. material towards the centre is pretty much doing nothing but making it heavy.

Ah, but what if you were to use an I-beam (which is a solid cross section) in that situation?

And yeah it really depends on how something is loaded, where it's loaded, what kind of internal stresses it has to deal with, etc etc to determine what's the best (strongest/most efficient) way to build it.