Help me choose my wheel set.

[mufs]

Hey peoples.

Ok will keep this short and sweet.

Want a wheel set for XC racing, I aint a lightweight, but haven't really had huge wheel busting issues. Ride as smooth as I can.

Anyway - Prices are similar for both these two wheel builds so tell me your thoughts.

1. Mavic Crossmax SL disc
2. Mavic XM 819 Disc Rim - Hugi 240 Hubs - DT Supercomp spokes - Alloy Pro lock Nipples.

According to the weights from various web sites, the Crossmax come in about 20 grams lighter.

So which would you choose and why? Remember I can get both of these for around the same price so dont let that enter the reasoning..

[bradmc]

I can't give a comparison, but i do own a pair of Crossmax SL's. I feel they are an awesome wheelset, they stay true (i am 85Kgs), they do not lose air as some tubless wheels do, and, they roll really well.

Hope this helps.

[mufs]

How long you owned them?
How often, what type of riding do you do?
Have you broken any spokes?
Have you had freewheel body issues?

[4heckssake]

Hugi, XM819 32 spoke gets my vote. strong, reasonably light and very reliable, moreso than mavic hubs and you are not restricted when replacing hubs or rims should you need to cos of more conventional spoke number.
I'm 95 kg and use XM819's on hope XC hubs on two bikes. 18 months use for XC and trail riding - not one problem. on the other hand i kill shimano freehubs in no time ( a coupel of months) and have broken spokes in mavic wheelsets with less than 32 spokes(crossrocs)
leaking UST tyres are usually the fault of the tyre not the rim. a scoop of stans is necessary. conti and hutchison tyres are best for holding air. maxxis larsens UST are very leaky (even with stans).
no personal experience with hugi hubs but they have a great reputation. up there with the best. give hope a thought...or chris king might if you have the dosh.
both of your choices are great wheelsets. go forth and conquer.

[Bodin]

I can't give a comparison, but i do own a pair of Crossmax SL's. I feel they are an awesome wheelset, they stay true (i am 85Kgs), they do not lose air as some tubless wheels do, and, they roll really well.

Hope this helps.

I'm in the same boat as bradmc - I can't give a comparison, but I do ride the exact set of wheels you're looking at in option 2. I've ridden them through hell over the last year and they've been ultra reliable. Here's the main points:

1. Cassette body is soft - a cassette with "teeth" inside its body bits big chunks outta the 240 cassette body.

2. Bearings can get pretty mucky, but are really easy to clean/service and I haven't had to replace them yet.

3. Rims are bombproof (I also weigh 85kg) and haven't required trueing.

4. Unlike the Crossmax's, all the parts can be serviced/fixed/replaced at any shop, which was the main thing that separated the two for me.

Props to Hutchy @ Spoke(n) for convincing me which choice to make and props to Russ building me a fast, reliable wheelset.

[M@DM!KE]

Hi my name's Mike, I'm a weight weenie. I'm also on slightly heavy side for a XC rider @ 85kg.
I had crossmax SL wheelset on my blur for period of 12 months. Whilst they have been a fairly solid performing wheel over this time, I feel there are a few issues with them that are worth mentioning.
I have heard many complaints about the Mavic freewheels on their hubs. They really are rubbish. Most Mavic wheels i've known anyone to own have needed replacement freewheel bodies within the first few months, mine being no exception.
That's not such a big deal though really, it's fairly inexpensive. (or free under warranty)
My main gripe with this wheelset is the amount of twist in the rear hub when you put the power down. The drive side of the hub twist quite significantly, put much more fatigue on the few drive side radially laced spokes. I have had to replace several of these due to breakages. (and the cost is about 8-10bucks per spoke!!!)
It doesn't matter how much tension is placed on the drive side spokes, the problem is inescapable. It effectively makes the wheels feel very sluggish under drivetrain load as the cassette will twist, possibly as much as 10degrees, before the wheel actually rotates at the rim to catch up to the hub.
This is probably not anywhere near as much of a problem for a lightweight XC whippet. But is quite noticeable, especially when accelarating on climbs or out of tight corners.
I never had a drama with these wheels not holding air, they are simply superb in that regard. They have also remain pretty true over the last 12months, this i was happy with. I do however, feel much happier with my new wheelset.
I've always sworn by Hugi hubs. They are simply awesome. Light, Stiff, look the part, easy to service. The Crossmax were my only non hugi wheel in the past 4-5years of XC. They were part of a build kit i purchased. I thrashed a set of Hugi 240's for about 3years prior to Crossmax. Not a single problem. I now have new Hugi 240 centrelock hubs, revolution spokes, stans olympic disc rims. Lighter than Crossmax, far stiffer, and i'm reassured knowing that if on the off chance i might need a spoke or two, I won't have to rob a bank.

Hope this helps.

[FR Drew]

Considered the FSA XC300 wheelset?

I have a set of these. I picked mine up form an LBS for sub 600 dollars. Seem light, smooth rolling and haven't buckled on me yet. Could be a worthwhile third option?

[DW-1]

1. Mavic Crossmax SL disc
2. Mavic XM 819 Disc Rim - Hugi 240 Hubs - DT Supercomp spokes - Alloy Pro lock Nipples...

Check the next issue of Australian Mountain Bike.

Wheel shoot out. Two of them are the DT Pure Team (with 340 hubs) and the Crossmax SL.

Read it and see the result.

Elvis.

[bradmc]

How long you owned them?
How often, what type of riding do you do?
Have you broken any spokes?
Have you had freewheel body issues?

1. About 12 months.
2. Ride at least 100Kms a week. Ride some rough terrain....i ride in Sydney, mostly Red Hill, Oxford Falls....get to the Blue Mountains and Ourimbah occasionally, and done Thredbo and Buller (Abomb) downhill runs (albeit no very fast) and other trails when i can.
3. I have had no broken spokes (never needed to true the wheels).
4. No freewheel problems.

Reading some of the other posts, maybe i am just lucky. But now i have said this, i will probably total the wheels next ride. :( So i am now interested in how other wheelsets compare. :)

[Maebus]

Hey,
I hope I can help.

Firstly I have ridden a similar setup of wheels to both you have prescribed.

I race and so do place my wheels at there limit when out there on the course.
My first wheel set was a DT Hugi 240 hubs attached to db Dt Champion spokes and 517 Ceramic rims 28h front and 32 rear with alloy nipps. These wheels were sweet to race, Non tubeless, I had them tied and glued for extra rigidity. (that’s another issue all together). In a nutshell these were a great wheel set - I am light - 60kg and they would not like the forces subjected to them with a heavier rider.
These were built by a very good wheel builder, and so under my weight remained true for the two years I owned them.
The free hub body is a little harder to maintain. yes they say no tools are required but really - you may be up s#%t creek without a paddle if you try to pull it apart without an experienced person instructing you of the mechanics of it all. This means in short that if you do not maintain the hubs on a pretty regular basis you may find the free hub will start to slip and no power will transfer if you are in the middle of your ride( this happened to me in a National series XC race in the wheels second year), If your Hugi hub is making its trademark sound at very loud levels, book it in for a service.

Now for Crossmax Sl's
These are a real bullet proof set of wheels built for the masses.
These are light, expensive, and dead easy to service. Now I don’t believe any XC rider can tell me truly that these wheels are "flexy" no matter their weight - For XC riding. The wheels do need special tools - all of which necessary should be supplied when you purchase them. It could be argued that these bearings are not the highest quality - that is you may find you need you may need to replace your bearings 18months later - they most probably wont seize on you if you clean them appropriately and care duely for them when on the bike.
Parts for Mavic only come from Mavic original parts. Spokes are about $10 each if you by some freak accident break one as they are strong as - branch breakers. The rims come in at around $200-250 each + New Spokes if you total a wheel. The Sl's feature a machined rim between the spokes from my vast experience with these I know how thin these sections are and can dent or get holes generally from rocks, so be careful.

A better suggestion would be the Crossmax XLs for you as they are advertised as having even stronger spokes and do not have the machining between the spokes. I'd go the Mavics Over a custom wheel basically every time.

Cheers James Maebus

[Grover]

I'll assume you're riding disc brakes for this one because if you're not your choice is made. V-brake crossmax with the radial lacing are flexy, steer clear.

I'd just like to clarify weights. If you've added up claimed weights from websites and have got a 240s, supercomp, XM819 wheelset to add up to only 20 grams more than crossmax sl's you've done something wrong. You have to remember that the XM819 rims require little nipple inserts in order to be built that are not part of mavics claimed weight. These things are an extra 50 grams per wheel so you're upto 120 grams more than crossmaxs.

There are two things that would make the decision for me. One, do you have access to a good wheelbuilder and two, are you using the wheels only for racing or as your general training wheels aswell.

James is right, crossmax's are an awesome wheel but unless you've got the money to fix them up it's too risky using them all the time. So, if you're only using the wheels on raceday, get the crossmax.

The main factor in wether a custom wheel is strong, stiff, reliable is not the components but rather the quality of the build. Yes, better components help but no matter how good they are, if the builder stuffs up your wheelset will suck. So, weights wise you'll be 120 grams heavier with the custom wheels and if they're not built right you won't be happy.

I'd suggest you have a look at the DT Pure Build from Wheelcraft (a dirtworks company). These will be lighter than crossmax sl's even with using the tubeless kit that is designed specifically for the DT rim. They retail around $1400 including the tubeless kit, are built by a machine using all standard parts and have a warrenty on the actual build not just the parts.

So, a quick summary. If you're only using the wheels for races get the crossmax, if not steer clear unless you've got money coming out your ears. If you don't have access to a good wheel builder then have a look at the DT Pure Build. If you do have access to a good wheel builder and want to ride these wheels all the time then you're only issue is the extra weight with the 819 wheelset. If you're willing to take this hit then go with those wheels, if not then there are a couple of ways you can lighten it up a bit.

By getting the v brake rims which are available in a 28 hole version you will save the weight of 8 spokes, nipples and inserts in the wheelset. You can also drop a few more grams by using Sapim CX-Ray spokes. These things are expensive but are absolutley the best spokes made. If you did both those things then the wheelset would really only be 20 grams heavier than crossmax. However, you say you aren't a lightweight so have a chat to your builder to see if they think 28 spokes would be alright, definitely go with the CX-Ray spokes though. The weight difference between 28 and 32 hole rims is 50 grams per wheelset using CX-Ray spokes.

Cya, John.

[mufs]

Wow!

I didn't think this would spark so much discussion!

I have access to an uber good (read excellent) wheel builder and I am kinda limited to these two choices of wheels as I can get a good price on these two, but no others. Having some favours repaid, but lucky enough to have the choice of the two.

At the moment I ride the Generic Mavic 223 disc, stainless spokes and Shimano 525 disc hubs. They serve me well, and will most probably stay on the bike, and only use the cross max for racing. Saying that, I will be lazy and leave the cross max on the bike more often than not.


I like the look of the crossmax, and people do swear by them. Some say they are silly strong and others say they are silly weak. I want a high quality XC race wheel that is going to be signifigantly faster/lighter than my current set up. Otherwise I would'nt be spending the $$$$ on it.

I weigh 85kilos and do tend to break stuff (as smooth as I try to be).

Keep the opinions comming!

[DW-1]

are built by a machine using all standard parts and have a warrenty on the actual build not just the parts.

um... almost.

Wheelcraft wheels have the nipples threaded onto the nipples by a machine. (a real live person has to actually "lace" and cross the spokes)

Then they are trued and tensioned and stress relieved by hand.

But the wheel trueing "jig" that we use has a computor interface that can (and does) record variences of up/down and side to side of .002mm.

But (again) a real live person turns the spoke key. Also all the build info, tollerences, spoke tensions etc are recorded for every wheelbuild and referenced to the serial number.

Plus... if you bust a spoke, you can always buy a std 14g spoke at your local store and use it. Try that with a novelty wheel using "special" spokes.

Elvis.

[Bodin]

Now I don’t believe any XC rider can tell me truly that these wheels are "flexy" no matter their weight - For XC riding.

James, at your weight, you are never qualified to make this statement under any circumstance - regardless of what fatter people might have told you. You wouldn't know what flex means, regardless of how good your power-to-weight ratio might be... 99% of XC "pure race" gear (which is what Crossmax wheels are) is made for your weight category and, as a heavier rider, I can tell you that 99% of XC "pure race" gear is flexy.

And your claim seems especially silly when you go on to recommend a heavier-duty wheelset at the end of your post.

There - you've been told. Truly. :p

[Grover]

I have access to an uber good (read excellent) wheel builder and I am kinda limited to these two choices.
I will be lazy and leave the cross max on the bike more often than not.

Those are the big two statements, both point you towards the 819 wheelset. At 85kgs I'd say try and get the wheels built with the Sapim CX-Ray spokes but keep it at 32 spokes per wheel.

You're looking at around 1795g for the Wheelset with SuperComps, 1750 with CX-Rays and 1695 with CX-Rays and only 28 spokes per wheel.

If you could bring yourself to not be lazy then the crossmax will feel more zippy as there is less weight at the rim which is what you feel the most. A decrease in weight at the extremities of the wheel (tyre/tube/rim/nipples) makes the biggest difference to how fast you accelerate.

Having said that, I only weigh what James weighs and use Crossmax as race wheels only finding them stiff and fast, I think maybe you should listen to Bodin and beleive that at 85kgs Crossmax are flexy.

um... almost

Yeah, sorry Elvis, I couldn't be bothered writing all that. I was just trying to get the point across that they are a very well built, reliable way to do custom wheels. If you don't have access to a good wheelbuilder then Wheelcraft are there for you and do an excellent job.

Cya, John.

[DW-1]

You're looking at around 1795g for the Wheelset with SuperComps, 1750 with CX-Rays and 1695 with CX-Rays and only 28 spokes per wheel.

or don't use the SuperComps and run with AeroLites instead.

Elvis.

[mufs]

or don't use the SuperComps and run with AeroLites instead.

Elvis.

I was thinking this, but will the aerolight be as strong? I know its lighter than the supercomp according to the DT website.....

[craigb]

i have the exact same wheels you are looking at and have to say they ride sweet. im only 70kg so im not a light or heavy person but im confident on the hugies hubs and mavic rims easily being strong enough for you (aslong as they are built properly). they are super stiff and roll super fast. the catch is with cross max that ive been told all the weight is in the rim which means the crossmax has more rolling resistance and the price of spokes that can and will be broken at some stage (who hasnt busted a spoke). go the hugies you wont regret it thats my beleif anyway

[Grover]

Yes, most of the weight of crossmax's is in the rim, but that weight is still less than the weight of the XM819 rim. Compared to standard rims, crossmax rims are heavy, not compared to XM819 with nipple inserts.

If you want the numbers here they are;
mavic standard non tubeless xc disc rim - 403 grams,
mavic tubeless xc disc rim - 469 grams without inserts (512 grams with),
mavic crossmax rim - 450 grams.

NOTE that the crossmax rim I weighed was the old black v-brake ceramic rim and so the new crossmax sl disc rim with the scalloping inbetween nipples and no ceramic sidewalls can be expected to come closer to 420 grams. There you have it, a crossmax rim will be close to 100 grams lighter than a XM819 rim.

On the spokes, I'd say Aerolites are fine, I just suggested CX-Rays as they've long been regarded as the best spoke around. The Aerolites have only been around a couple of years I beleive. They are DT Swiss' answer to the Sapim CX-Ray.

If I were you I would be getting 32 hole front and back with CX-Rays, XM819 disc and Hugi 240s.

Cya, John.

[Maebus]

Bodin, I don’t wish to start off on a bad foot with you, so let me set some things straight. I do accept your comments that "Crossmax" V wheels are flexy as I do have the capabilities to ride these wheels and get flex regularly out of them when pushing them into corners etc.. But the Crossmax Sl Disks are built with more spokes front and rear and I stick by my observations of experience that these wheels are pretty DARN SOLID WEIGHT/STRENGTH COMPARISON.
Why am I not "qualified to make this statement under any circumstance - regardless" of what fatter people might have told me? I regularly socialise with every sort of body type of Racer/Social rider and enter into discussions about all sort of issues I see many observations of different products on the market and attempt to use these observations and experiences provided to me on a regular basis to provide my experience to other people after some insight so I can provide a detailed Information on my experience I have drawn from this product to help people make an informed decision.
Look this is my position about the wheels but I really don’t appreciate personal attacks when I try to provide some insight into my experience with these particular wheels.
I suggested the Crossmax Xl's at the end of my thread if you did go on to read it all because they do not have the machining between the spokes and so are a more versatile wheel for "Mufs" as they are less susceptible to damage whilst out riding - as a Mavic wheel set.

Spoke Count:
The Crossmax Sl V-wheels are 18 front and 20 rear F:650g / R:820g(claimed)
The Crossmax Sl Disk wheels are 24 front and rear F:770g / R:915g(claimed)
The Crossmax Xls Disk are 24 front and rear as well F:860g / R:945g(claimed)

Cheers.

[Bodin]

You know what, mate? I've just re-read my previous post again and I'm honestly pretty surprised that you've publicly stated that I've made a "personal attack" on you. You're going to cop worse than that during your life if you're going to engage in any form of public "opinionising", so maybe thicken that skin up a little... :rolleyes:

I've seen you ride, James, and you're 10 times the rider I'll ever be and you have a lot of respect in the MTB community for the effort you put in to the scene. I personally had a lot of fun at Lysterfield Park earlier this year thanks to you. But that doesn't change the fact that you're built like an anorexic whippet and you don't personally know what sort of stresses an 85kg frame puts lightweight gear under - all you can talk about is what you heard. I was the poor bastard at the back of the B pack at Lysterfield Park that day because I chose tyres that were too skinny and I kept pinch-flatting, so trust me - I know how important it is to make the right gear choices.

Pretty much everyone else on this post is of the opinion that the Crossmax wheels are more susceptible to critical failure. To be honest, your point about "no machining between the spokes" means nothing to myself (and possibly anyone else), because snapped Crossmax spokes are a constant issue and are a bloody pain the arse to fix. Fuhgedabout fixing them during a race or a long trail ride. The 240s with standard spokes and 819 rims are a bombproof wheelset that pay a slight weight penalty to give you what 99% of lardy-butt 85kg riders what they really want - reliability.

That's just my opinion, not a "personal attack". No hard feelings, hey? :cool:

[Maebus]

Cheers.
All the best mate,
See you soon - Day Of Singletrackin 05 is coming... Big News.... let you know more soon.
Regards - James Maebus

[Bodin]

Ace, looking forward to the next day of Singletrackin'. I might see if I can rock up on a set of Crossmax's just to see how much you laugh at me. :D

Cheers.

[mufs]

Get this back on track kiddies.

Well it seems people have chosen the reliability factor of the Hugi set up. Next question posed, is it worth the $$$ for this set up over the current set up of 223 Mavic Disc Rims, Stainless spokes and M525 Shimano hubs? These wheels have been fine, but not the lightest or fastest setup (still not the worst either)..

[Bodin]

Get this back on track kiddies.

Well it seems people have chosen the reliability factor of the Hugi set up. Next question posed, is it worth the $$$ for this set up over the current set up of 223 Mavic Disc Rims, Stainless spokes and M525 Shimano hubs? These wheels have been fine, but not the lightest or fastest setup (still not the worst either)..

Yes.

Once you've gotten over the shock of the initial cost, you'll spend the next year or two enjoying a high quality set of wheels. You will actually be faster. It's that simple.

It doesn't mean you don't have to train, but that's for another post...

[mufs]

Cost isnt the thing freaking me. Its more making sure I purchase the right wheelset and not kick myself 3 months later....

[Bodin]

Ah well, Maebus and I probably have the strongest opposing views listed here. You just gotta take each point on its merit and decide which one suits you more.

I like the the DT/819 option, but James has got valid reasons for stating that Mavic have a wheelset that would suit. Ironically, the fact that you already have a reasonable wheelset means that you could keep that for training/trail riding and get a "race only" set like Crossmax's.

All I know is that I haven't drooled over any wheels since I got my DT/819s and they got my lard arse 4th place in the 2004 Simpson Desert Cycle Classic, so they're the right combo of weight and performance for me.

Best of luck.

[DW-1]

I was thinking this, but will the aerolight be as strong? I know its lighter than the supercomp according to the DT website.....

I know this sounds like "marketing fluff". but DT Swiss rate it as their STRONGEST spoke. And their lightest. (yes, even stronger than the Alpine III)

This is due to the fact that it is cold worked twice. (plus plenty of of other engineering like stuff that is just beyond a stoopid sales guy like me)

Elvis.

[apsilon]

Cost isnt the thing freaking me. Its more making sure I purchase the right wheelset and not kick myself 3 months later....

FWIW I have an 819 wheelset with the same spokes and nipples as you're considering but with King hubs and I fail to see how anyone could be disappointed by them. I'm no light weight at ~93kg and as far as I'm concerned I couldn't be happier with them (unless they were cheaper).

[Grover]

Is it worth the $$$ for this set up over the current set up of 223 Mavic Disc Rims, Stainless spokes and M525 Shimano hubs? These wheels have been fine, but not the lightest or fastest setup (still not the worst either)..

Well if you don't get wheels are you going to blow your money on some other bike part? A nice light set of wheels will give the biggest improvement to your bike as they will be so much easier to accelerate and brake on. If you're going to spend the money anyway then definitely get wheels first.

Maybe you should post your complete bike specs so we can see if there is anything else in more dire need of an upgrade.

Cya, John.

[mcoccia]

I also have a 819/supercomp wheelset however with XTR hubs. My weight is 91 kgs. No compliants about this wheelset. The only problem is that I also have an XTR wheelset which is significantly lighter. This weight difference is very noticeable whilst riding. The 819's tend to sit in the garage and are very rarely used.

If your really are after a set of race wheels go for the lowest weight. In this case the Xmax SL's are the lowest weight.

[mufs]

Well if you don't get wheels are you going to blow your money on some other bike part? A nice light set of wheels will give the biggest improvement to your bike as they will be so much easier to accelerate and brake on. If you're going to spend the money anyway then definitely get wheels first.

Maybe you should post your complete bike specs so we can see if there is anything else in more dire need of an upgrade.

Cya, John.

Bike is well spec'd.

Kona Kula Primo scandium frame.
Easton monkey light carbon bars.
Easton EA50 stem.
Woodman Carbon seat post.
Selle Italia Seat.
Hayes 9 HFX Carbon Brakes
XT Derailures
Fox RLT100 fork
Race Face BB and Cranks.
Shimano Clipless

Wheels : Mavic 223 Disc, Stainless spokes & Shimano M525 hubs.

So all I am after is wheels!

[Grover]

Well the answer is yes, it's worth spending the money, with that spec your bike deserves nice wheels. Now the decision is, are you too lazy to swap wheels for races or not. If you are get the 819/CX-Ray/240s wheelset, if not get the crossmax's. Simple.

Oh, and post a pic of the bike when you get your wheels, sounds sweet.

Cya, John.

[sclyde2]

if I were you, I'd get:
DT Swiss XR4.1d
DT 240s disc hubs
Sapim CX-Rays
32 hole.

OK.... that's what I've actually got (with the exception of the older Hugi240 hubs).

I got mine when the Dt-swiss rims first came out - August 2003. From all reports, the Dt-Swiss rims are much straighter/rounder/truer than mavics, so it makes life a lot better for the wheel builder, hence, less chance of a dodgy build. They are a little heavier than the lightest mavic (the old 317, don't know what it's called now), but apparently a lot stronger - people report those mavics to dent a lot more easily etc. The rims have never been trued since new, but are still straight. I bought them purely for XC racing, but have subjected them to a some rough stuff (rock gardens etc) when my heavier wheelset was out of action, and they still look great, bar a few stratches from rock grazes. I did crack the rear hub though, and this is not uncommon, but I had no problems with getting a warranty replacement 240s hub. Apparently, the cracking was limited to the older Hugi 240 hub, and the new 240s avoids this problem.

I haven't weighed them, but I remember adding up the weights of the parts (using that weight weenies website, which has actual weights, not claimed weights) and coming to something around 1600g, or maybe less. I'm not sure, but think it compared favourably with the Crossmax SL Disc (but not when you add stan's rimstrip-see below). For some reason, I went with brass nipples. I think it had something to do with the fact that I was bummed that I couldn't true an older wheelset cause the alloy nipples were seized up, and the scary price of CX-ray spokes (someone said $6 each in oz!) - the brass nipples might give me the option of rebuilding with the original spokes in case of wrecking a rim. I don't think the DT aerolite spokes were available when I got my wheels built, but they seem like a worthy contender for being the best spoke available. When I was selecting spokes, I heard that Lance Armstrong and Nicholas Villinouz (the unbeatable downhiller, I can't spell his name) both used the CX-rays, so thought they must be pretty special - ultimate blend of strength and weight.

I only weigh about 75kg, but find that these wheels are more than strong enough for XC racing - I probably could've gone with 28 spokes for XC racing. With 32 spokes, at my weight, I can use them for trail riding, drops. I reckon they'd be perfect XC race wheels for a heavier guy. I have had people comment on my wheels (bike shop staff, mechanics) about how stiff they are for their weight. I should also mention that the DT-Swiss Rims can handle higher spoke tension than your average mavic XC rim. I have had 2 mavic rims crack around the eyelets, eventually ripping the eyelets out. Now knowing how to spot it now, I can notice the cracks forming on one of my mavic rims now. No signs of this on the DT-Swiss rims. Of course, this is caused by the wheelbuilder overtensioning the spokes, but at least you have the option of getting a stiffer wheel built with the DT-Swiss rims, with lower risk of cracking it.

If you bought these wheels in OZ, they'd probably cost a fortune though. I'd reckon around $1600, maybe more. That was what it probably would've cost me, over a year ago. I got mine from Larry at mtnhighcyclery for just on $600US.

I couldn't be happier with them.

The other issue is what kind of tyres you plan to use. Are you going to go tubeless? UST tyres? Are those 819 rims UST? I've been using stans with non-UST tyres for quite a while (about 2 years) and these wheels have never had a tube in them. I've had no problems, bar 4 flats in total. Pythons don't work for me (totally smashed 2 airlights + one gold), and did an explorer - but that was off a 4 foot drop to flat onto rock (lesson: don't get a XC tyre to do a freeride job). Otherwise, the only other problem has been when I tried lower pressure, I found the tyre to be a little "squirmy" in the rear, because the tyre (with rimsstrip stuck to it) would sometimes stretch off the rim when side loads where applied. I couldn't work it out for ages, until I landed a jump sideways, and the tyre and rimstrip totally popped off the rim (could feel the rim rolling/sliding sideways on the ground momentarily), before a loud "POP!" back onto the rim. It lost no air, and I continued the race, but it was pretty disconcerting. To avoid this, I've been running slightly higher pressure since (about 40). I recently bought the DT-Swiss tubeless kit, which looks pretty special, but haven't tried it yet. The DT-Swiss kit has the rim strip stuck to the rim via double-sided tape, so hopefully it'll avoid the rim-rimstrip seperation issue. Dt-Swiss states that their kit should only be used with UST tyres, but I have heard of people using normal tyres no problem. However, with the range of UST tyres gowing, and you being heavier, you should probably stick with UST tyres if you go tubeless.

Having said all this, if you change tyres often, you'd probably be better with UST rims - less mess. But you said that you are "lazy" and might leave the wheels on for trailriding - this implies that you are unlikely to change the tyres too. So I vote DT-Swiss rims.

Yes, cassettes will score the cassette body, but that applies to any aluminium cassette body. Just make sure you use XT or XTR cassettes (or maybe those new SRAM cassette) and you will minimise the damage. If you want to future proof your wheels, I suggest getting centrelock hubs, even if you have IS disc brakes. Apparently, the DT-Swiss adapter works well with any IS disc (apparently the best of all the centrelock-IS adaptors), and I reckon it is only a matter of time before centrelock takes over - so easy to put on or take off discs. I think I heard that Hope has already announced that it is going to start making centrelock discs.

I've never ridden the Crossmax SL, and hear great stories bout them, that they just roll fast, can take abuse etc. Quite a lot of pro riders use them (who get free replacements), so they must perform well. If you did get them, you could be lucky and have no problems. However, as mentioned above, there are are few people that have things go wrong, and they go REALLY wrong (repetitively, high cost, time without wheels, no options to strengthen the wheel) and you could end up with regrets. You don't seem to hear as much emotion with the more "standard" setup. Sure, things go wrong with the standard setup, but at least you have options if they do - get a heavier rim etc.

Hope this helps.

[sclyde2]

I had look at the WW site, and came up with the weights:

XR4.1d - 425g
CX-Rays - about 140g per 32 spoke wheel
Nipples - a gram each for brass, a third of that for alloy
240s disc hubs - 148f, 266r, about 10g less per hub if you go centrelock

So, I came pretty close with my guess above. 1608g for IS hubs with brass nipples.

If you go centrelock + alloy nipples, you'll have a wheelset under 1550g.

That's pretty light for a strong 32 spoke disc wheelset.

Of course, if you want to go tubeless, you'd have to add rims strips (and sealant) to that weight. Stan's strips are 55g/wheel, while the Dt-Swiss strips (same as eclipse) are 23g/wheel.

Keep in mind that you have the option of going totally weight weenie with the non-UST tyres.

The weight of the Crossmax SL Disc varies between 1678 and 1700.

If you wanted to get for the absolute lightest, Stan has a wheelset out, with his own rim + I think American Classic hubs. Those hubs are about the same weight as the 240s, but I hear horror stories about their reliability. I hear that Geoff Kabush is using Stan's stuff (eg. aluminium disc rotors, rimstrips, and testing the wheels).

[mufs]

Like I said in my first post, I have a choice of the two options I provided as there is cost involved and I am getting a special favor (think dirty dark alley on a friday night) done to get a 'special' price.

[hotsauce]

I use the Mavic Crossmax SL disc on my Giant VT One. They are very light and quite strong for a XC rim. I have used them for about 10 months and they have been awesome. I have also done some light freeriding and the local downhill track and they have held up. The only problem i have had is a stick went through the front wheel and buckled it. I kept riding on it for a couple of weeks and the damaged spoke got really bad i had to replace it. Other than that they have been awesome.

[mufs]

Had the Xmax SL Discs for a week now and love them!

[ash_on_mtb]

anyone wondering why there is an international Mavic spoke deficit, please contact mufs (above) directly.... Obviously the man has complete faith in the strength, quality, longevity and workmanship of Mavic finest, hence the reason he has bought spokes by the shipping container load!!! :p

[mufs]

anyone wondering why there is an international Mavic spoke deficit, please contact mufs (above) directly.... Obviously the man has complete faith in the strength, quality, longevity and workmanship of Mavic finest, hence the reason he has bought spokes by the shipping container load!!! :p

But they look cool when I ride to the milkbar.