Norco VPS A-line or Bighit Expert???

[DJDEMON]

Hello,
all downhillers your fellow downhiller needs a bit of help choosing his next rig i was woundering which bike you think?know would feel better for DH 05 Norco VPS A-line or a 04 or 05 Bighit Expert????
Cheers
DJDEMON

[L.P.]

i like norcos, but i recon the bighits rock. i jus got a bighit comp04, an beautiful. the only thing that lets down the comp is that the front end has a fair bit less travel then the back(6"front, 7.5"rear) so i think the expert would be perfect. the 24"rear wheel is mad, keeps bike low, soooo much adjustability rear, a seeminlgly unbreakable rear wheel with 24"and an asymmetric rear triangle to ensure even spoke angles are similar make an amazingly strong wheel, and heaps rigid. good thing about norcos is the 150mm rear hub i think they come with, which would be good, but i dont think incredible essential. but jus go out there an have fun on one of them, theyd both be be unreal bikes !

[six9man]

they are both good

the norco has shiat running gear, but it will get bent within 6 moths and you will have the money to upgrade it by that time.
xt and lx stuff is nice on the big hit but it doesnt have a chain guide. the norco has a basic box guide, it will do the job.
rims on both are similar quality so no big points there

oh and dont forget lots of travel front and rear on the norco

but i think your decision should come down to this

marz 888's or mani stances
dhx 3 or vanila

i chose 888's and a dhx3 my bike should be here tomorow :D

[Fallsrider]

They are the cheaper 888's with no adjustabiity, which is no big deal for a new rider, but if you have the cash, upgrade them to the proper 888's at the shop. Then the Norco can really be ridden for a fair while without urgently having to change anything.

[Derek Yates]

Hey All,

Keep in mind the A-Line is supposed to have most of the money tied up in The Frame, Fork and Rear shock. A 9" Travel 4 Bar Link frame with adjustable geometry and travel with 150mm rear end is pretty sweet at this price point. You can set it up for different riding styles or trails so you don't get stuck with a single setup for all occasions. Getting a nice rear shock, great fork and a decent kit of parts into the deal means that you can ride it right away and upgrade parts as they wear out. A lot of people will tell you that Part X or Part Y is too shit to ride DH on but most riders will be totally cool with the bike stock. You CAN adjust the forks with oil weight/height tuning to adjust damping speed and bottom out and the stock forks are not in need of an instand upgrade as a lot of people make out. They go pretty damn well in most conditions and most begginer/intermediate riders are not out to win world cups on this bike. The 888 VF's have a significantly better build quality and long term performance than other forks in this price range that look like they have more bells and whistles but end up causing more drama's that they are worth. Other parts that are the goods are the Truvative Bar/Stem and Hayes brakes so you'll have no dramas there. The Kenda 2.5" stick-e rubber tyres are pretty good too. All the other gear is good solid stuff but none of it is super light. If you want a solid bike, with quality suspension that's reliable and using a preven design and parts then an A-line will work for you. Be prepared to spend money to upgrade if you want a lighter bike or want to race it at a high level. If your aims are higher for racing or hardcore freeriding then you might want to consider a Shore or Team DH but they are much bigger $$ upfront.
Anyway, talk to your shop about a test ride or what they think about it for your needs. We have very limited numbers of A-lines left now so don't hang about to order one if your shop doesn't have one.

Cheers,

Derek @ Norco.Au

[Woffa]

big hit expert easy the a-line a brick and it is crap as pedaller

[Mugger]

Having ridden both bikes i prefer the a-line, was very confident with it taking it down a dh track rather then the bighit. Pedaled nicely, even gave it a go pedalling it up a hill. Tough work but didn't felt nice. I guess the only downside is it's pure shit tyres, apart from that sweet bike if you mantain it well.

[Derek Yates]

big hit expert easy the a-line a brick and it is crap as pedaller

Dude, if you are 15 years and and wanting to get 'into freeriding' how do you feel that you have ANY credability posting that sort of comment!? If you actually spent any time on an A-line with a correctly setup shock/geo for your weight and riding style than you would realise what a stupid comment that was. The FSR 4 Bar link and DHX shock are one of the smoothest pedaling bikes around and the suspension still works awesome over the small and big hits. Saying it's a brick doesn't mean anything either. It's not an XC bike so its always going to be beefy, but it's not as heavy as a hell of a lot of other bikes out there. For the price you have to take some extra weight from lower level parts. There are a heap of people running last years Team DH and This years A-line who are stoked with the bike and probably have a slighly different version of reality than you. Maybe you could think a little more before hitting the Submit button eh?

Best regards,

Derek @ Norco.Au

[DamoH]

^^^^^^^
Youch....

I would go the a-line any day, and no i am not being biased just cause i recently got a norco. Derek summed it up perfectly. I know heaps of guys who race dh and use deore dreallieurs. They use them cause they are cheap and break just as easily as any other groupset. It's very expensive to replace an xtr rear mech.

[udi]

but it's not as heavy as a hell of a lot of other bikes out there.

They are in fact very heavy, in my opinion, and I think you are blowing your own whistle a little here.

Having ridden the 05 A-line and a number of high-end bighits, my personal preference is the bighit.

Why?
The bighit is a much shorter bike, the chainstays are quite short at 17" clear, and the low bb height (14.3") makes it a lovely handler. The weight is also kept down, the frame+shock weighs roughly 9.9lbs (4.45kg), making for a fairly light ride, even out of the box. All this leads to a bike that handles well, and something that you can flick around oh-so sweetly in the air. The 04 Expert (if you can get your hands on one) has an excellent speclist all round, and leaves pretty well nothing to replace. 04 Junior T works sweet, as does the swinger 4-way on the rear. Throw a chainguide on and some new rubber and she's apples.

The A-line, I feel, has a long wheelbase, and a very short cockpit. Combine that with a steep head angle, a higher bb height, long chainstays, and enough weight to rival a semi-trailer, I don't think it's a match made in heaven. To it's credit, the parts spec is fine I think (albeit heavy) and personally I don't see any lacking in the 888VF. I ride an RC, and sure the VF is a little less active, but i'd still ride it.

Maybe the A-line would be nice for a bigger guy who is pointed downhill only, but for something that is lighter, more flickable, and simply a lot more fun to ride, i'd go the bighit.

-Udi

[Derek Yates]

Hey Udi,

I have no issue with someone who actually has compared the bikes and can make a rational comparisons based on features and benefits. I hate to slag off other brands because most of them are all doing a great job of building nice bikes. All of the positives you have stated have validity but also have there own issues. A shorter wheelbase is not as stable at speed or in the rough stuff. The mismatched wheel size is not loved by all. The low weight is a pro, but they have only got a 135x10mm Q/R rear end giving a less stiff rear end and less durable rear hubs. The differece between a 150x12 and 135x10 rear end is very noticeable in big sweeping corners and berms. Less flex also means more durability long term. Other things such as the low end, shorter travel rear shock and a hell of a lot of home brand components make the Expert a less dedicated DH bike and more an all rounder. Norco don't really make a bike directly competing with the Expert (and Specialized seem to have almost discontunued the design) so it's always going to be a matter of getting the bike that suits the rider/usage best. Weight is always going to be a matter of $$. Spend more and get nicer, lighter parts. Otherwise you get a lighter frame (with less metal) and hope the durability will be fine for your riding style. As the A-line is aimed at the DH/Bikepark rider more than an all round freeride bike it's going to have more travel, higher BB and a beefier frame. "Enough weight to rival a semi trailer" is a cheap shot. We have lighter bikes in the Six and Fluid ranges for people wanting an all round bike. The sizing is always a matter of personal preference and will suit some people better than others. Anyway I'm just giving people some information and if that's blowing my own whistle then so be it. Better than 15 posts by people who have never seen the bike in real life and are simply posting an opinion on colour/brand loyalty or comparison to Elite DH bike X. Please don't take this as having a go as everyone is entitled to thier opinion and no one is right or wrong. People spend thier own money and get a bike that suits.

Cheers,

Derek @ Norco.Au

They are in fact very heavy, in my opinion, and I think you are blowing your own whistle a little here.

Having ridden the 05 A-line and a number of high-end bighits, my personal preference is the bighit.

Why?
The bighit is a much shorter bike, the chainstays are quite short at 17" clear, and the low bb height (14.3") makes it a lovely handler. The weight is also kept down, the frame+shock weighs roughly 9.9lbs (4.45kg), making for a fairly light ride, even out of the box. All this leads to a bike that handles well, and something that you can flick around oh-so sweetly in the air. The 04 Expert (if you can get your hands on one) has an excellent speclist all round, and leaves pretty well nothing to replace. 04 Junior T works sweet, as does the swinger 4-way on the rear. Throw a chainguide on and some new rubber and she's apples.

The A-line, I feel, has a long wheelbase, and a very short cockpit. Combine that with a steep head angle, a higher bb height, long chainstays, and enough weight to rival a semi-trailer, I don't think it's a match made in heaven. To it's credit, the parts spec is fine I think (albeit heavy) and personally I don't see any lacking in the 888VF. I ride an RC, and sure the VF is a little less active, but i'd still ride it.

Maybe the A-line would be nice for a bigger guy who is pointed downhill only, but for something that is lighter, more flickable, and simply a lot more fun to ride, i'd go the bighit.

-Udi

[lotec]

big hit expert easy the a-line a brick and it is crap as pedaller
my bb7 weighs 47 pounds, making it a "brick" and if i put a 150 pound spring on and ran no air pressure it would pedal like a hunk of shit, this MUST make it an absolutly shit bike and i should throw it away now, seriously dude grow the fuck up i bet youve never even ridden one and if you have it was probably set up like crap
personally theres no question for me, i would take the A-line just because of the frame and fork, the fork can be adjusted if you know what you are doing with oil height / weight, its an awesome frame, best for the money IMO, its the same as last years team race frame so its gonna be dialled for DH but you can set it up with different angles if thats what you want, parts on it arnt all bad and you can upgrade as you break stuff, 24" wheels are crap for dh, ive ridden a bighit dh, there top of the range "dh" bike for 2003 (now replaced by the demo which has 26" btw) and you could REALLY notice it hooking up on things. i also have no idea for a fact what the rear axle path is like through the travel but it feels like it moves forward A LOT, you can just feel the bike hooking up on things and it sucks your speed so badly, i suppose im used to riding a dh race bike which is designed to eliminate this but the 24" doesnt helo and is noticable, also the vanilla rear shock is crap and as someone has said "stances blow more seals than a horny eskimo" also the SC ones have problems with bending steerers which is a worry...

[udi]

A shorter wheelbase is not as stable at speed or in the rough stuff. The mismatched wheel size is not loved by all. The low weight is a pro, but they have only got a 135x10mm Q/R rear end giving a less stiff rear end and less durable rear hubs. The differece between a 150x12 and 135x10 rear end is very noticeable in big sweeping corners and berms. Less flex also means more durability long term. Other things such as the low end, shorter travel rear shock and a hell of a lot of home brand components make the Expert a less dedicated DH bike and more an all rounder.

I agree on the 24" note, and i'd say there's plenty of people that dislike it. And i'd definitely agree that the a-line would be a winner on the larger courses. The hub thing is a non-issue though IMO, there's plenty of good hubs out there these days, so durability isn't a concern, and while most horst-linked bikes will flex a bit back there in the between-legs test, i'd have trouble noticing it in action. Sure the 150 is theoretically stiffer, but personally I notice the geometry issues of a bike well before any lacking in stiffness.


Otherwise you get a lighter frame (with less metal) and hope the durability will be fine for your riding style. ..... "Enough weight to rival a semi trailer" is a cheap shot.

That's a cheap shot. I couldn't fill up one hand worth of fingers in terms of broken bighits i've seen, they are a tough little frame. More metal doesn't mean stronger, and less metal doesn't mean weaker. It's called engineering, specialized seem to do a little more of it. ;)

Anyway, just a little friendly argument.
I'd still ride one of the sexy new norco team dh's if it was handed to me...
OR, rip the parts off and throw them all on a demo8 frame. :D

[pezzer]

I say that if you're riding all DH and nothing else, the A-line, because that's what the thing is designed for. If you are going to ride everything on it and not be a serious contender for expert class in the sunshine series, a bighit would be the go because it is designed as a Freeride bike.
Keep in mind that if you buy a bighit, you cannot upgrade to 26" and if you buy an A-line you're stuck with the short cockpit and steeper H/A that have been mentioned already. You will have no worries going faster on either bike until in a year or two when you've progressed considerably and in my opinion, if you get that much better, you'll want to upgrade no matter which bike you get.

All bikes have their Pros and Cons and until you've tried em all you won't know what they're all like. If you're not going either specific DH or FR, just buy whichever one feels good and in 6 months or so, if you don't like it too much, trade for the other one. The prices on either won't have changed a whole lot and you're bound to be able to sell one and get a hold of the other with little to no loss on your part.

Just buy a bike and enjoy it...it's no huge loss if you have to build up a few extra muscles to hop off a tight drop or pedal up a hill, just go with what you like the feel of best.

Sorry for the essay and anything I said more than once
Pez