View Full Version : Freeriding or Black-diamond?
Cam Hart
05-09-2003, 02:16 PM
Many of us have seen the stance taken by Mountain Bike Action magazine to use the term 'Black-Diamond" instead of Freeriding. The August edition states "When refering to bikes, it means those with over 5 inches of travel and have two or less chainrings. Black-Diamond riding refers to extreme riding(like the Red Bull Rampage) and Downhilling. It replaces the term Freeriding because that word has come to incorrectly conjur images of mountain bikers riding off established trails. Freeriding is sometimes confused with epic or all-mountain riding (long rides on singletrack, dirt roads and jeep trails"
Well I will not be hucking off 20ft cliff faces on my 5inch travel Haro, and my Giant DH Comp, is a Down Hill bike, not a Black Diamond bike.
The term Black Diamond has been used for a long time to rate the difficulting of certain track and originated from snow skiing (I think).
Freeriding was probably a good desription of what you and your mates do when you hit the trails for a few hours, a bit of everything, just messing around, riding whatever you find. The problems started when the term was applied to events like the Red Bull Rampage etc and some types of Bikes. That is what some would say should be called "Extreme Mountain Biking", not freeriding.
So is MBA saying we should no longer use the words Down Hilling? Jeez there would be hell to pay. And no more Freeriding? What ever happened to "I'm going for ride for free?" If you happen to get some steep, fast techy sections (Downhill) and some long flat fireroads and single-tracks (All mountain) and then on way ride along some logs (north shore), haven't you still 'just gone for a ride' without the need to label everything?" Thats what I do and will continue to do. We have enough trouble getting the public, corporate and government sectors to undertand our sport without this crazy idea of applying more labels. ITS MOUNTAIN BIKING OK!!
So, what does the Farkin crew think about this issue?
I find downhill, cross country and street/dj enough to cover most of the riding categories, the only real reason I see that we need labels is so we know what bike to bring with us when our mates ring up and want to go for a ride, as much as I’d like to just use the term “lets go for a ride” it’d suck to drag out your V10 and body armor when your mates were under the impression “lets go for a ride” meant a 4 hour xc,
while we do need some classification in mountain biking to avoid confusion these crap terms that the mountain bike magazines are trying to coin are useless, all mountain, black diamond, Velo Schussing, epic xc, jibbing (or urban assult*). Honestly how many people own a downhill bike and a separate “free ride/black diamond bike” or a street bike as well as a dirt jump bike? It’s all getting out of hand.
* what on earth is urban assault? Is that where you drive down the street in a armored car and shoot people? Who are you assaulting?
I don't fucken beleive it all.
WHO CARES
riding is riding! All these trendy names are really getting to me:
FreeRiding
Supercross
Aggressive XC
Hardcore Trailriding
blah blah blah...
Then we have 8" travel DH bikes with a double chainwheel that are called freeride, we have heavy-duty xc bikes called freeride etc etc
fucking stupid, the whole lot.
Oh, and try selling bikes, someone says "I want to do a bit of hardcore freeriding", so you think they want a big dually rig, when they really want a light hardtail with 4" travel forks. Marketing is retarded.
If I ever use the term 'black diamond' to refer to any kind of riding in anything but a derogatory-taking-the-piss-out-of-MBA-for-being-pretentious-toolkits kind of way, I want someone to punch me in the throat.
By the same token, if I hear anyone use the term 'black diamond' to refer to any kind of riding in anything but a derogatory-taking-the-piss-out-of-MBA-for-being-pretentious-toolkits kind of way, I will most likely try to punch them in the throat.
For the love of god we don't need a label for every minor subset of riding we do, my thoughts on this issue can be found in more detail here (http://www.farkin.net/page.php?p=80c2dcd9b2c8f5158a3a80a4d93026c3).
If I ever use the term 'black diamond' to refer to any kind of riding in anything but a derogatory-taking-the-piss-out-of-MBA-for-being-pretentious-toolkits kind of way, I want someone to punch me in the throat.
By the same token, if I hear anyone use the term 'black diamond' to refer to any kind of riding in anything but a derogatory-taking-the-piss-out-of-MBA-for-being-pretentious-toolkits kind of way, I will most likely try to punch them in the throat.
For the love of god we don't need a label for every minor subset of riding we do, my thoughts on this issue can be found in more detail here (http://www.farkin.net/page.php?p=80c2dcd9b2c8f5158a3a80a4d93026c3).
Why don't you go out for a quick jibbe to calm yourself down?
scotty beefs
05-09-2003, 07:04 PM
ditto ryan and laugh at socket :lol:
It called erbon assolt dammit!!@#!#@! ERBON ASSOLT!!!!
lol jibbing grrrrrr.
honestly, it's going for a ride then you say if it was dh or urban. :lol:
There's a good interview with Jared Rando in Flow magazine, he sums it up well:
(regarding "jibbing") "Oh they should just call that 'bike riding'. Oh yeah, like today I'm gonna go 'jibbing' and tomorrow I'm going to go 'freeriding'. Yeh right. And then I'm gonna go 'hucking' the next day! Never mind all that, I'll just go riding.
Bender is CRAZY
05-09-2003, 09:12 PM
IMO Freeriding is doing a bit of everything.
Remember back in the day (95ish) AMB (when it was credible) dubbed the term "3rd force" :?:
That was good then, they used it to describe the sort of riding everyone does, with no marketing wank to ruin it all.
Darkness
05-09-2003, 09:18 PM
who cares what bike your riding, as long as your havin fun while doin it you may as well huck as big as you can and if you do come off, you'll know to get more travel!!
Agent Orange
08-09-2003, 11:56 AM
haha urban assault...taht was in the wheel deal, umm yeh i cant say black diamond is a bad term for riding, anywhere you go people will say different and wierd things, like people will start saying im a huckrider, i got my hucking bike, but really doesnt know what it means anyway.
Use whatever term you want heres my list of mtb termanology
downhill- racing or training on set tracks
freeriding- riding around trails, jump tracks just having fun
city/urban -city rides blah blah blah
boring - xc riding hehehehe
nah im jsut messing around whoc ares what you call something, i think all that matters is if you do it or not.....
Agent Orange
08-09-2003, 11:57 AM
ohh yeh cant forget rennies call on freeriding
"freeriding stands- for fuck i suck at racing-" (that was word for wordish)
Agent Orange
08-09-2003, 12:07 PM
one more thing to add is that anything like hucking, 'north shore', freeriding, if someone asked what style i ride...i would say downhill. Most of these are dirivitvies of dh, to a small extent.
I have downhill tattoed on my right arm. i could have got 'huck' or freeride but it really didn't have the same ring for me....
stylinruss
12-09-2003, 01:10 PM
It seems most of these terms have been pinched from snowboarding or skiing. Some of them work, some of them don't.
I think the term Black Diamond is about the most shite one yet.
Black diamond runs are not even particularly hard and I think the term free-ride bike is much more appropriate.
A lot of people seem to hate the term but I think it is the best term to describe bikes like Giant AC'c, RM switch, SC Bullitt, orange Patriot, etc
People getting confused, walking into a bike shop and asking for the wrong sort of bike has always happened and its the job of the bicycle salesperson to ask the right questions to find out what people are actually after. Labels are helpfull, but only if they are applied uniformly, but since when has the bicycle industry ever stuck to any standards?
stylinruss
12-09-2003, 01:10 PM
It seems most of these terms have been pinched from snowboarding or skiing. Some of them work, some of them don't.
I think the term Black Diamond is about the most shite one yet.
Black diamond runs are not even particularly hard and I think the term free-ride bike is much more appropriate.
A lot of people seem to hate the term but I think it is the best term to describe bikes like Giant AC'c, RM switch, SC Bullitt, orange Patriot, etc
People getting confused, walking into a bike shop and asking for the wrong sort of bike has always happened and its the job of the bicycle salesperson to ask the right questions to find out what people are actually after. Labels are helpfull, but only if they are applied uniformly, but since when has the bicycle industry ever stuck to any standards?
It seems most of these terms have been pinched from snowboarding or skiing.
Black diamond runs are not even particularly hard
maybe they should change Black Diamond to Double Black Diamond
the hardest skiing trail
:twisted:
It seems most of these terms have been pinched from snowboarding or skiing.
Black diamond runs are not even particularly hard
maybe they should change Black Diamond to Double Black Diamond
the hardest skiing trail
:twisted:
Fatman
12-09-2003, 03:40 PM
All these different names are a load of crap. It all seems like some seppo bullshit that tries to separate riders into categories rather than unite them as just 'riders'. I ride all sorts of bikes and different trails but I dont feel the need to put on my XC personality or DH or freeride etc,etc.It's just riding! I wouldn't categorise myself as any of the terms described. Marketing wankers love it though, and besides the terms can be used way out of context. Stop worrying about the terms and just ride. :evil:
Fatman
12-09-2003, 03:40 PM
All these different names are a load of crap. It all seems like some seppo bullshit that tries to separate riders into categories rather than unite them as just 'riders'. I ride all sorts of bikes and different trails but I dont feel the need to put on my XC personality or DH or freeride etc,etc.It's just riding! I wouldn't categorise myself as any of the terms described. Marketing wankers love it though, and besides the terms can be used way out of context. Stop worrying about the terms and just ride. :evil:
i reckon there are a couple of relevent names, but imo most people use them the wrong way
free/trail riding - going up, down, along the flat, wherever (butr in the bush)
dh - racing
xc - racing
urban - what it says (trailriding in the city, if you like)
shore - while this is like a combo of just about everything else (think fr+ramps and shit), i think this has got its own name mainly cause of why it was done (for the more environmentally sensitive among us) or the "extreeem dood" factor but the fact remains that this is a valid subtype of riding. it is using ramps n shit, it was first done (to my knowledge) on the north shore round vancouver, so its called shore riding.
didn't we go through all this way back when farkin first came on line?
we did, it's right here (http://farkin.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=176)
i reckon there are a couple of relevent names, but imo most people use them the wrong way
free/trail riding - going up, down, along the flat, wherever (butr in the bush)
dh - racing
xc - racing
urban - what it says (trailriding in the city, if you like)
shore - while this is like a combo of just about everything else (think fr+ramps and shit), i think this has got its own name mainly cause of why it was done (for the more environmentally sensitive among us) or the "extreeem dood" factor but the fact remains that this is a valid subtype of riding. it is using ramps n shit, it was first done (to my knowledge) on the north shore round vancouver, so its called shore riding.
didn't we go through all this way back when farkin first came on line?
we did, it's right here (http://farkin.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=176)
I won't even call it urban, it's too wanky for me...
here's my breakdown of riding styles:
downhill - racing downhill
cross country - racing cross country
riding - everything
city riding - riding in the city
trials - trials
road - spandex fruitcakes
track - spandex fruitcakes in a fruitbowl
etc... if it isn't a competition category, then it's plain old riding!
I won't even call it urban, it's too wanky for me...
here's my breakdown of riding styles:
downhill - racing downhill
cross country - racing cross country
riding - everything
city riding - riding in the city
trials - trials
road - spandex fruitcakes
track - spandex fruitcakes in a fruitbowl
etc... if it isn't a competition category, then it's plain old riding!
wombat
13-09-2003, 10:03 PM
track - spandex fruitcakes in a fruitbowl
Bwahahaha! Fruitbowl! that's a cracker, I dunno why, maybe just because I'm tired.
The labels can cause a lot of problems though, like when you ask customers who are after a bike what sort of riding they're into and they respond with "freeride, and a bit of DH"; this will usually trigger alarm bells so my usual follow up is "oh right, where abouts do you ride?" and they answer "well I ride the oaks a lot....". People are funny.
Ty: mate I wish I had that problem, the extent of my decisions is how much pressure do I put in my tyres, and should I take a water bottle.....
wombat
13-09-2003, 10:03 PM
track - spandex fruitcakes in a fruitbowl
Bwahahaha! Fruitbowl! that's a cracker, I dunno why, maybe just because I'm tired.
The labels can cause a lot of problems though, like when you ask customers who are after a bike what sort of riding they're into and they respond with "freeride, and a bit of DH"; this will usually trigger alarm bells so my usual follow up is "oh right, where abouts do you ride?" and they answer "well I ride the oaks a lot....". People are funny.
Ty: mate I wish I had that problem, the extent of my decisions is how much pressure do I put in my tyres, and should I take a water bottle.....
Bwahahaha! Fruitbowl! that's a cracker, I dunno why, maybe just because I'm tired.
What's even funnier is I've decided to start training with the intention of racing the track season :oops:
Bwahahaha! Fruitbowl! that's a cracker, I dunno why, maybe just because I'm tired.
What's even funnier is I've decided to start training with the intention of racing the track season :oops:
juzza
14-09-2003, 08:55 AM
Seriously guys, you are all making too much fuss outta this. Who cares what anyone says about what we do. Just get out on your bike and ride!! Have fun ,mess about. isnt that what MTB is all about?
juzza
14-09-2003, 08:55 AM
Seriously guys, you are all making too much fuss outta this. Who cares what anyone says about what we do. Just get out on your bike and ride!! Have fun ,mess about. isnt that what MTB is all about?
bazza
14-09-2003, 08:40 PM
hahaahahah this is a mad topic, sooo much anger....well for me its
freeridin - anything that inclues getting on my bike and going some place doing something
downhill - racing or riding dh specific trails
xc - well taht just about says it all anything that involves the need for a light bike to get anywhere
shore - same as freeridin
hucking - same as freeridin
droper - droping off stuff
jumping - going to the djs
thats about it...riding is too general for me, so if anyone asks me what i do its downhill the answer, freeriding i get funny looks.
mr whippy
14-09-2003, 09:22 PM
my nephew who's six years old tells me he's goin freeriding, and then he does little jump off the gutter outside my house. it's so cute. i'll have to ask his opinion how he feels about black diamond riding. :) i'm not sure he'll cope with name change.
just call the style of riding u r doing wot ever u want, it don't matter as long as the people u r riding with know wot ur on about. usulay they do coz u talk about riding with thema ll the time so u get to know wot people mean when they say sumthing
j5ive
27-09-2003, 07:03 AM
I hear DBR (diamond back) has an 04 Black diamond range. Funny thing is that they are hardtails. CASH IN! wankies.
kalem
27-09-2003, 10:07 AM
hahaha wankies!
chandler_mate
30-09-2003, 09:29 AM
why dont we just all just say when we go for a ride all we do is go for a ride on our bicycles and sit back and laugh at all the canadians and canadian wannabes that create work for themselves by specifying all there different styles of riding and bikes
fuck it right off, if nobody thinks they belong to a particular group of people everyone will get along like best friends in a magical fairy land
toodles
30-09-2003, 10:06 AM
Stuff using labels to describe what your doing. Most folks I know describe it by what kind of equipment you'll need on the ride.
Eg.
"what kind of ride we doing?"
"Bring your hardtail/duallie and your XC lid/fullface."
That pretty much covers whatever you decide to get up to on a ride.
ona rampage
30-09-2003, 03:23 PM
Seriously guys, you are all making too much fuss outta this. Who cares what anyone says about what we do. Just get out on your bike and ride!! Have fun ,mess about. isnt that what MTB is all about?
I agree and disagree....at the end of the day this is our 'sport', and if some marketing company/magazine is attempting to apply labels that aren't required or useful then we need to fight back.
Forums like this are good, to tel them that they are full of sh1t, and that we (their consumer base) won't take it.
If some marketing mob tell the magazines 'this is now called black diamond' then they'll publish it, and readers will start to use the term, UNLESS they say that is crap!
I agree; riding is what we do (badly in my case) and labels are only useful to work out where you are going for the day & what you shoudl take (should you have two or more bikes to choose from).
bikeman_baldrik
30-09-2003, 08:29 PM
too many terms,
as nathan rennie said:
"i wouldn't call freeriding anything. I'd just call it going for a ride.."
2 smooth
12-10-2003, 03:16 PM
well, i kno its a bit late, but as Nathan Rennie put it..."I dont call freeriding anything...i just call it going for a ride." i think that says it all...
Daver
12-10-2003, 06:06 PM
Dude, I don't think cannondale would be impressed with this (remember back to 98 when they copywrited the word?)... Who cares really... I just say i'm goin ridin'. XC, Trials, DJ, 4x, Enduro, singlespeed, DH, FR- it's all riding!
frenchy
12-10-2003, 06:10 PM
black diamond riding sounds pretty gay they should just keep it as free-ride
Daver
12-10-2003, 06:14 PM
How bout just riding? and red bull can call it 'huckfest'
lucco
12-10-2003, 07:15 PM
IMO there should be two types of riding:
Mountain Biking
Road Riding
Daver
12-10-2003, 08:14 PM
indeed... ur preaching to the converted...125
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