making ur own frame?

[kurt]

Just wondering if any one has made there own bike, like design'd it and weld'd it all up and made it work>?

any links,or types of materials ect to this kinda stuff?

[I_am]

I know some guys that have built cruiser bikes, not sure on what materials they used but it looked relativly sturdy.
I'm not to sure if you would be able to make a bike that u would be able to jump/dh on though, if thats what you mean.

[lotec]

ridemonkey or even pinkbike would probably be petter places to ask around about this :)

[bomber1]

was going to do it for my yr12 Design and Technology major project but it looked like a fuckload of really hard work.
gotta do all the angles n junk. way too hard.

[lotec]

also unless you have a lot of money to burn youve gotta make your own jigs up to hold the tubes while you weld them, which will end up being more work than making the bike, also if your using alluminium you will need access to i believe a tig? welder? or risk rooting your tubes, cause you can control the temperature of a tig welder a lot easier and the heat is only on the area your welding, not heating up the whole surrounding area like other types of welders, something like that but grip will know :)

[t]

I'd highly recomend having a stab at making a low rider or a dragster, the angles of these bikes are not so important and weight isn't such an issue.
The importnat parts to get right on any frame are the inner diamiter of the headtube, the BB, and the dropouts. How you join them to each other is only limited by you imagination and budget.

[lotec]

you can buy headtubes and bb shells premade as well :)

[W2ttsy]

ridemonkey or even pinkbike would probably be petter places to ask around about this :)

if youre a pinkbike member, PM draco about this. he has made a coule of HTs and a DH bike himself. he seems to know whats involved and stuff.

W2ttsy

[Mahoney_007]

also unless you have a lot of money to burn youve gotta make your own jigs up to hold the tubes while you weld them, which will end up being more work than making the bike, also if your using alluminium you will need access to i believe a tig? welder? or risk rooting your tubes, cause you can control the temperature of a tig welder a lot easier and the heat is only on the area your welding, not heating up the whole surrounding area like other types of welders, something like that but grip will know :)

I think you're after "you can control the amperage of a tig welder". You can use a lower amp setting thus creating less heat therefore being able to weld aluminium tubing easier. But thats only my year 12 knowledge there so I may be wrong to, shit it was 10 years ago.

As for the question good luck champ, you've picked a damn hard project. I made a dirt bike stand and fixed the doors to my trailer, it took me the full semester cause I fucked around so much.

[miko]

You also control the heat by moving the torch closer or further from the work piece.

You pretty much need a TIG to weld steel and ally. DC TIG to work on steel, and AC to work on ally. Steel tubing for bikes is generally very thin, so you need good heat control to weld it. You can also braze together a steel bike, but I don't know if I'd do it for an MTB, and you really have to know what you're doing!

As everyone has said, building your own frame is really hard work, and I really wouldn't recommend it unless you have a whole heap of resources to throw at it. Also, if you're intending to make your frame from aluminium, welding that is REALLY hard, and you need a more expensive TIG (AC). The few shots that I had turned to crap, kudos to all those that can do it!

[Gonzo]

A few people have made carbon fibre bikes. Theres is a good walkthrough on sheldon browns site. It goes through all the steps and shows you how to do it. Might be easier if you don't already have a welder of some sort.

[phillearned]

I made an XC hardtail frame for my yr 12 D&T major work, turned out sweet! I built it up and rode it for about a year.... probably worth noting that the frame is now cracked because of a couple of first time frame building mistakes.
I built it out of reynolds 531 steel tubing, and i brazed and silver soldered it to avoid using a tig welder.
PM me if you have any questions.

I'll post up some pics when i get home from tafe.

[S.]

if youre a pinkbike member, PM draco about this. he has made a coule of HTs and a DH bike himself. he seems to know whats involved and stuff.

W2ttsy

And being the self-flagellating disasters that they were (in the nicest possible way :)), he's well and truly aware of what the likely pitfalls are.

Also, do a search - this has been covered a few times before.

[exvitermini]

i have to ask what were so bad about his frames asfar as i could tell his testing on the welds was more then other builders would put them through... and i haven herd anything much bad about them...but i did worry that they were so light though?

[look i can faceplant]

i myself had a look at this too unless you are very very experianced in metal woking do not bother it will only risk harming yourself i support the idea of a cruiser or lowrider but nothing your going to be riding hard

[W2ttsy]

i have to ask what were so bad about his frames asfar as i could tell his testing on the welds was more then other builders would put them through... and i haven herd anything much bad about them...but i did worry that they were so light though?

well from the threads ive read on PB, draco has tested his work by pulling them apart with 2 4wds. and they didnt fail. i think that proves they were more than adequate.

W2ttsy

[S.]

i have to ask what were so bad about his frames asfar as i could tell his testing on the welds was more then other builders would put them through... and i haven herd anything much bad about them...but i did worry that they were so light though?

Nothing that bad, just his VERY originals (square tubes for everything, yes everything, YES that includes seat tube and head tube... at least I'm pretty sure that was his) seemed to show a slight lack of planning combined with an eagerness to get building. His original DH bike also had geometry calculated without taking into account sag (or apparently comparing with existing dh frames), so he ended up with some rediculously low (like 12") bottom bracket before sag. I have no reason to think that they're any weaker (or stronger for that matter) structurally than any other bike though.

[exvitermini]

sqaure??? i dont follow you have a look at the below links....

http://vpfree.pinkbike.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=96859&highlight= (http://vpfree.pinkbike.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=96859&highlight=)

http://vpfree.pinkbike.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=87096&highlight=downhill (http://vpfree.pinkbike.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=87096&highlight=downhill)

http://vpfree.pinkbike.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=87096&highlight=downhill (http://vpfree.pinkbike.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=87096&highlight=downhill)

i cant remember what his downhill bike is like so...i dont know if you have seen that and are talking about it...

[S.]

sqaure??? i dont follow you have a look at the below links....

http://vpfree.pinkbike.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=96859&highlight= (http://vpfree.pinkbike.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=96859&highlight=)

http://vpfree.pinkbike.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=87096&highlight=downhill (http://vpfree.pinkbike.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=87096&highlight=downhill)

http://vpfree.pinkbike.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=87096&highlight=downhill (http://vpfree.pinkbike.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=87096&highlight=downhill)

i cant remember what his downhill bike is like so...i dont know if you have seen that and are talking about it...

Square tubing was (only) on his very first hardtail (as in literally the first thing he ever built), iirc. I'm pretty sure he did it as a school project or something along those lines. I'll see if I can find his DH bike pics.

[W2ttsy]

sqaure??? i dont follow you have a look at the below links....

http://vpfree.pinkbike.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=96859&highlight= (http://vpfree.pinkbike.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=96859&highlight=)

http://vpfree.pinkbike.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=87096&highlight=downhill (http://vpfree.pinkbike.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=87096&highlight=downhill)

http://vpfree.pinkbike.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=87096&highlight=downhill (http://vpfree.pinkbike.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=87096&highlight=downhill)

i cant remember what his downhill bike is like so...i dont know if you have seen that and are talking about it...

have a look at www.ridedraco.com he has a page about the vigilante DH frame. looks pretty rough, but the idea is there...

W2ttsy

[lotec]

square seattube... what a brilliant idea! no more "is my seat really straight" crap again :O

[S.]

square seattube... what a brilliant idea! no more "is my seat really straight" crap again :O

Sounds like a great idea until you remember that your seatpost is round...

[donthucktoflat]

Sounds like a great idea until you remember that your seatpost is round...
haha! gold. just another thing for you to think about. if you want to be able to set up the linkage points better, try using a program called linkage v2. i am not sure of the website but i think rik knows it pretty well.

[S.]

Here's the DH proto I was talking about, check out the BB height: http://www.pinkbike.com/modules/photo/?op=view&image=179157
I'll see if I can find the old old hardtail, but I doubt it somehow... that was about 3 years ago.

[exvitermini]

yea well how many people do you know whould even attempt it?(making one at school) with out having the skill there to start with... and then continue it into a company....his first one may of been sketchy,but look at the bikes he is making now...i wouldnt mind riding one...

[S.]

yea well how many people do you know whould even attempt it?(making one at school) with out having the skill there to start with... and then continue it into a company....his first one may of been sketchy,but look at the bikes he is making now...i wouldnt mind riding one...

Hardly anyone... I'm not bagging his bikes (the production ones at least), just saying that the alpha protos weren't the best-thought-out things around. Fortunately he learned from those :)

[W2ttsy]

Here's the DH proto I was talking about, check out the BB height: http://www.pinkbike.com/modules/photo/?op=view&image=179157


looks like a cross between a rocky mountain RMX and an unwidgeted D8.

also, speaking of square tubing. heres a random fact. the cannondale lefty is actually a square stanchion design. this apparently keeps it from flexing to the side and the reason for the booty on it is due to not having a good enough oil seal to keep the dust out..

W2ttsy

[exvitermini]

^^^that makes sense as i can just see someone riding along and the front wheel spining around the to the other side of the fork when the locking pins(screw what ever) became lose...that would have to be one hell of a freaky thing to have happen..

btw i have decided i dont like his dh bike(dont like the look of d8's to much to..sorry w2tty)i think it looks streched out and yea dont like it much(small tubing doent help it much..kinda like a bmw bike)

[lotec]

Sounds like a great idea until you remember that your seatpost is round...
no shit, how did i never think of that :rolleyes: compared to making a frame, how hard would a seatpost be? sure it wouldnt be up to thomson standards but it couldnt be hard to botch one up

[phillearned]

Here are some pics of the frame and the bike that i built....

[Grip]

Here are some pics of the frame and the bike that i built....

Very nice indeed. Nothing beats simplicity and a basic double triangle design is about as simple as it gets. Is it really 531 and how does it ride?

[floody]

I built a dually with about 12" travel out of two old HT frames and an old CR450 rear shock...It was pretty poor, ripped it apart after it was assessed...Probably would have died in about 5 seconds flat as my welding was shit (which is being kind), lol.

Otherwise, I designed a HT and had it built for me a few years back, it was uber heavy due to less than inspired tube choice by the builder (4130 rollcage tubing..), but angles and lengths etc were great. If I could find the money I'd do that again, with better tubes for the front triangle.

[phillearned]

Very nice indeed. Nothing beats simplicity and a basic double triangle design is about as simple as it gets. Is it really 531 and how does it ride?

Yes it really is 531, got the tubeset from british international, and it did ride ok.... top tube was a bit short .... at the moment it is kinda cracked - as i mentioned before i did a few things wrong through inexperience.
(I was actually thinking of seeing if you could fix it Grip)

[S.]

Here are some pics of the frame and the bike that i built....

VERY nice... I'm guessing that has a very forgiving ride (in terms of rear end flex)?

[phillearned]

VERY nice... I'm guessing that has a very forgiving ride (in terms of rear end flex)?

Yes, it was pretty comfortable to ride.

[miko]

So what things were done wrong, if you don't mind sharing? I'd like to have a crack at this one day.

[draco]

browsing google today I came across this post. Felt like clearing it up, even tho no one probably cares.

1. we never EVER made a square tubed bike. only the chainstays on some are rectangular.

2. I never got to do a frame for a school project.

3. square headtube and seat tube.... i mean really...*wink wink*

4. oh some were rough perhaps. but that omni was a joke, even amongst us.

5. new stuff aint too bad. heres some shameless self promotion:

V3 freeride ht
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/dracobikes/greyside1.jpg

5lb 4oz bmx frame. new one is sub 5
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/dracobikes/8f588530.jpg

3.7lb XC hardtail mid-paint
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/dracobikes/PrimerRear.jpg

DH bike, light, and yes, used linkage 2
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/dracobikes/closeNDside.jpg

A project I honestly wished I never agreed to do, but am anyways
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/dracobikes/Tside.jpg

and the park avenue prototype. new one to be released feb 1st 2006.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/dracobikes/sidestreet.jpg

I thank you for your time gents. ps phillearned - gorgeous frame.

[Jacko Wacko]

wow, the park avenue prototype looks mint!!! i think you sould leave it bare or at least paint it a really rad colour!

[Binaural]

I second that the park avenue looks awesome, really stealthy. I reckon the raw metal look is trick.

As an aside - I have never seen anybody do it, but on a frame with such a nice finish you could laser etch your logo rather than paint or sticker it on. That would look ace! An example of what I am thinking here (http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2005/11/laser_etched_powerbook.html)

[Joly Joe Rider]

Sweet
Actually i am planing (planing may or may not go ahead) building my own frame , as I am doing a composites course this year.
Based on current bike hollow point (even gonna copy DWlink - figure its ok due to the fact its not a production bike)
THE PLAN:
Aluminium seattube and BB, Aluminium steer tube, bonded with a monocoque carbon fibre(prepreg not sure what grade yet depends on cost largley) using a vaccuum bag setup to obtain compression on the mould, the rear swing arm is my last design point - not sure weather to go with aluminium or try for carbon.

All of the carbon top/down tube varies in thickness. Based on a weaker grade of carbon mat i have done the maths (bloody tricky and fucking annoying) to try and obtain equal to greater stiffness and torsion as alumnium. I have cut up a hard tail jump frame (Al) to gauge thickness's. Based on theses calcs the frame should (not linkage or swing arm included) should turn out to be about 10% lighter. Obviously this is all theory. The next step it to make up the moulds which I to do during my course.

When I work out how to use my CAD program a bit better I will post some drawings.

[Rik]

Woodman beadblast, anodise then laser etch their frames... they're easily the nicest finished brand I've come accross.

[t]

Woodman beadblast, anodise then laser etch their frames... they're easily the nicest finished brand I've come accross.

mmm... they are even black on the inside... if only they could get a good dropout design on the D frame.

[phillearned]

ps phillearned - gorgeous frame.

Thanks Man - some of yours are pretty sweet too.....

cheers.

[exvitermini]

When I work out how to use my CAD program a bit better I will post some drawings.

what cad programs are you useing? if you dont mind me askin..

and draco they are very nice frames... not a huge fan of the chain stays on the last but everything esle is so nice..

[MrPlow]

Posted this before...

I will get around to showing the latest version some time.
And then making it.
My little side project. I want to do a run of 3 after FEA etc. Designing it "properly".
Then give 2 frames out for prototypeing and feedback. If all goes well, I will make some more.
I say if you have the right equipment, go for it! I have had fun designing mine.
Just need more time :)

All the best withhte project.

[miko]

draco, what went into getting a 3.7lb steel hardtail? Materials wise? Looks the goods! :)

[Joly Joe Rider]

what cad programs are you useing? if you dont mind me askin..

and draco they are very nice frames... not a huge fan of the chain stays on the last but everything esle is so nice..

I have used Autocad to draw basic designs until I got the geo correct.
Then I have been drawing the rest in ProEngineer so I can be assured that every thing fits first go. I have drawn the mould as well. Bloody big program and still not quite up to speed on it. I wouldn't mind having a go a Solid Works though as I have been told its a very good program as well.

[MrPlow]

.... I wouldn't mind having a go a Solid Works though as I have been told its a very good program as well.

KeyCreator is an awesome program for solid modelling too:D

(shameless plug, I am the dealer for this program in QLD;) )
www.kubotekusa.com for more info.

[fimpBIKES]

joly joe,
i have used em all and currently use autodesk inventor v10
like it better than solidworks, but that might be cos i use it more now

proe is pretty average from my experience

anyways GREAT FRAMES DRACO!!!
screw what others are saying, those are all swet, got to break a few eggs to make an omelete yeah? :D


im a mechanical engineer now, designed bike frames all through uni
never made one but...
i did design and built (with some assistance) a space-frame using steel tubing for a cbr600 powered FormulaSAE car

i would love to build a frame, but cant be stuffed just now
i mean, i bought a norco sasquatch frame off ebay for AUD$230
i couldnt even buy the ally for that (especially not the double butted tubes and stuff it probably has!!!)

i have designed jigs and everything and plan on doing a bmx to start with some time this year, couldnt be worse than my 12kg mongoose menace frame!!!

anyways, if u really want to do it
but like most custom things, it wont be cheap :cool:

[Joly Joe Rider]

joly joe,
i have used em all and currently use autodesk inventor v10
like it better than solidworks, but that might be cos i use it more now

proe is pretty average from my experience

im a mechanical engineer now, designed bike frames all through uni
never made one but...
i did design and built (with some assistance) a space-frame using steel tubing for a cbr600 powered FormulaSAE car


Yeah Pro E isn't much fun at all.
It interests me that people are still investigating space frames for FSAE.
I know its a cheap method but Having helped in the construction of a open wheel hill climb car I cant see the value. We built the chassis using Aluminium Honeycomb and bonded everything. While the chassis wasn't quite as stiff it wasn't noticable on the track but we saved around 45kgs and it looks a hell of a lot neater (no frame no fairing). We built it with a 6cyl Honda motorcylce enging and made it a stressed member to further reduce the wieght.

[draco]

draco, what went into getting a 3.7lb steel hardtail? Materials wise? Looks the goods! :)

top tube, downtube, seattube, chainstays are all true temper OX platinum.
Seatstays are a slick custom set up with some nice carbon we had done up with a cosmetic outer weave. A carefully machined headtube and bottom bracket, and some very compact dropouts. Could do it lighter now, as I learned some new tricks. you'll see another one in about two weeks.

Solidworks is GREAT. Here's some stuff.

from a class I took:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/dracobikes/3d.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/dracobikes/car1angle.jpg

24" hardtail
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/dracobikes/4point18lbs.jpg

heh, and this is just the start.
http://photobucket.com/albums/v510/dracobikes/?action=view&current=currentcarbonview.jpg

[shanus]

very nice! Has anyone worked with the "Solid Edge" solids package? Its very similar to Solid Works. Ive done some DH frame design with it and love it. Ive have played around with the animation tool and got some cool results. Has anyone built a frame in solids software and run it in a FEA program? I am in the process of trying it now. I have only got access to Strand 7 which has poor drawing capabilities and limited ability to import solids files from other packages. I know that there is a FEA attachment for Solid Works but Ive never played with it. I am a fabricator by trade and have just finished studying mech eng. Ive been thinking about doing some frame design and building myself. I am imagining it to be a big effort to do it properly.

[wombat]

very nice! Has anyone worked with the "Solid Edge" solids package? Its very similar to Solid Works. Ive done some DH frame design with it and love it. Ive have played around with the animation tool and got some cool results. Has anyone built a frame in solids software and run it in a FEA program? I am in the process of trying it now. I have only got access to Strand 7 which has poor drawing capabilities and limited ability to import solids files from other packages. I know that there is a FEA attachment for Solid Works but Ive never played with it. I am a fabricator by trade and have just finished studying mech eng. Ive been thinking about doing some frame design and building myself. I am imagining it to be a big effort to do it properly.
I use SolidEdge for most of my work at uni, along with SolidWorks and Rhino for some things. SE is nice and easy to use, arguably a little easier than SW, and better for design presentation type things, but I've found problems when the time came to take something from SE into a CAM package and onto a machine. For some reason, the scaling and datum seemed to go all whack, and it just wouldn't play ball. SW on the other hand was much better for this sort of application.

[Hopper]

http://photobucket.com/albums/v510/dracobikes/?action=view&current=cashgoodsideways.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v510/dracobikes/?action=view&current=cashgood.jpg

Couple of interesting pictures there Draco :p

[Cave Dweller]

top tube, downtube, seattube, chainstays are all true temper OX platinum.
Seatstays are a slick custom set up with some nice carbon we had done up with a cosmetic outer weave. A carefully machined headtube and bottom bracket, and some very compact dropouts. Could do it lighter now, as I learned some new tricks. you'll see another one in about two weeks.

Solidworks is GREAT. Here's some stuff.

Funky little robot thing you have. Reminds me of the robotics project Binaural and I did for our undergraduate thesis

Prototype drawn in solid edge
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9296/homer23fg.th.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=homer23fg.jpg)

Final product
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1622/homer35ap.th.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=homer35ap.jpg)


For the record, i tutor undergraduate students in ProE and it SUCKS. I would use solid edge any day of the week.

[miko]

I look forward to updates draco, cheers!

[draco]

very nice! Has anyone worked with the "Solid Edge" solids package? Its very similar to Solid Works. Ive done some DH frame design with it and love it. Ive have played around with the animation tool and got some cool results. Has anyone built a frame in solids software and run it in a FEA program? I am in the process of trying it now. I have only got access to Strand 7 which has poor drawing capabilities and limited ability to import solids files from other packages. I know that there is a FEA attachment for Solid Works but Ive never played with it. I am a fabricator by trade and have just finished studying mech eng. Ive been thinking about doing some frame design and building myself. I am imagining it to be a big effort to do it properly.

I do not believe there is a way/effecient way to FEA an entire bike/assembly in solidworks. I have tested individual parts. some are easy to do, some are serious pains in the balls.


as for the pics of the cash, thats for the "golf cart incident" :(

[Cave Dweller]

The problem with FEA is that to get any meaningful results about areas of high stress concentration you need to have the elements/mesh fairly small.

Problem with having them small is the matrix size grows exponentially as you start to model larger and larger parts. This means the calculations are slow, very, very slow unless you have access to a server cluster (like we have here at uni). Add in any kind geometric complexity and it starts to get difficult.

Even with access to that it takes ages. I know a guy who tried to model a motor bike chassis and the thing was very simple mesh wise and it still took ages.

The other thing with FEA is it is only as good as the operators initial settings. If you don't know what your doing then its a recipe for disaster. You should at least understand and be able to do FEA by hand before attempting it on a computer.

[shanus]

thats so true! Ive modelled tube joints (head tube, bottom bracket) induvidually as solids with fairly complex mesh and they ended up taking several hours to solve. A whole frame with mesh fine enough to be accurate would be a marathon solve. Beam models of frames are quick and easy to build and solve but not accurate enough. Deciding on the forces acting on the frame in different situations is also tricky. It would be cool to get it right though.

[S.]

browsing google today I came across this post. Felt like clearing it up, even tho no one probably cares.

1. we never EVER made a square tubed bike. only the chainstays on some are rectangular.

2. I never got to do a frame for a school project.

3. square headtube and seat tube.... i mean really...*wink wink*

My apologies mate, evidently I mistook someone else's work for yours. Sorry! :o

[BrumbyJack]

Digging this up, thanks to Hopper ;) because it has some great stuff in it!!!!