POLL: Could you use an INTERNAL bike rack?

[trickyson]

Basically guys, im doing a DT project in which im making a bike rack that can go inside the back of a van, in the back of a ute, or in a trailer. Trying to overcome the usual problems of a)too many ocky straps b) stuff getting damaged, and making it quick and easy to use.

It involves struts that come up from the sides of a U shaped channel and secure on the wheels to stand the bike(s) up. Its going to have 4 bikes side by side as a max.

My question to you is: Could you find a use for a rack like this? If not, how come?

Feel free just to answer the poll, or if you have more to add, post away. Any constructive feedback will be much appreciated.

Thanks
Angus.

Below is a vague example of what one piece its going to look like.

Edit: Added a rendered pic of the rack with a bike in it. Hope that clarifys the idea somewhat.

[freeride_sweet]

grip sport has a really kool bike rack design but i dont think it can do onto the back of a ute well a ute or van with out a tow bar,

have a look at those, best dh bike rack design i have ever seen

[flyingmonkey*(+.+)*]

yeah dude, finally thats something that most riders can use.

i reckon it would go sick in this van that we use to do some 'taxi-ing' around the palce.

one question tho how many bikes will it be able to hold, cause u can maybe have three to four bike standing up in the back of a van or ute?

i think its a sick idea tho, ill be sure to get some measurements off u when ur done, good luck wit it and keep us updated with some pics, and more descriptions.

awesome DT idea man!!!!

[2 smooth 4 u]

you could use somthink like this (http://http://forums.farkin.net/showthread.php?t=34522) i thought it was a sweet idea

[Grip]

Could probably do with a bit more detail which would make it easier for people to know whether or not they "need" it.

I assume the "struts" you mentioned hinge up from each end and over the tyres? You may find that an overly complicated (and therefore expensive) way of holding bikes firm... but the CONCEPT of a simple rack for ute beds etc is a good idea. Good on you.

Have you ever considered something like this though... a series of simple crank holders (see drawing) bolted or welded to a lightweight steel frame that can be taken in and out of the vehicle as required. You would simply place the crank holders as required so that you could fit the maximum number of bikes in the vehicle.

Just a thought.

[ed the frog]

yeah man , i've got a hilux ute and i'd use something like that. at the mo' i'm using moto straps and the compression of the forks to wedge the bikes in so they don't move around.

works ok, but a rack would be nice.

i'll have it once you build it :D

[RuDeZ]

Maybe a good question for u gripis, have u heard of any other company that have tried this, and any other useful information on similar designs would be useful. My mate has worked hard and long on this for his hsc so any additional help is weldomed.
Cheers
Mitch

[woggey]

u could steal the design off those crazey busses with racks on the frount

[trickyson]

yeah dude, finally thats something that most riders can use.

i reckon it would go sick in this van that we use to do some 'taxi-ing' around the palce.

one question tho how many bikes will it be able to hold, cause u can maybe have three to four bike standing up in the back of a van or ute?

i think its a sick idea tho, ill be sure to get some measurements off u when ur done, good luck wit it and keep us updated with some pics, and more descriptions.

awesome DT idea man!!!!
Yeah, 4 bikes side by side is what i planned.

As for your post grip, sorry about the somewhat lacking detail, but you'd be right in saying that the struts hinge from the channel up and hold the bike in by the wheels.
As for the Crank holders, it is a good idea for a rack like the one you sell, but would be hard to load bikes in if there are 4 side by side, within the back of a van. As you couldnt really get around to put the crank in the holder when in the confines of a van.

With the channel idea you can just put the front/rear wheel in the beggining of the channel, and push the bike in, having left the front struts tightened, it guides the bike all the way to the struts well within the vehicle, and you then pull the struts closest to you up and onto the wheel, then tighten bolts on the ends of the smaller struts, keeping the whole system tight, and the bike firmly held.

Having the struts also stops the need for tie downs or clips on the bottom of the wheels to stop the bike from launching out of the holder.

Thanks again for the constructive feedback.

Angus.

[t]

have you considered the vast differances in wheel base between a large DH rig and a small jump bike ? if it can suit wheel bases rangein from 1000m - 1300mm then it would be a pretty sweet way of carting 'em.

[trickyson]

Yeah, taken that all into account, the pivoting strut can compensate for the (1m-1.3m) differences. Also, just by moving the pin between the strut that holds the wheel down into a lower hole, it can take 24 inch wheels as well.

[Beena]

These:

http://www.saris.com/products/koolrack.htm

are cool and work really well, has a little handle and a hydraulic piston inside (that in itself is cool enough to buy one i say).

Makes for a really simple (and versatile) solution to the ute/van problem.

[Sweeper]

Take a look at this website:
http://www.utahmountainbiking.com/bikerack/makerack.htm

The guy has made a bike rack out of PVC pipe, to fit into the tray of a Ford F150. No reason you couldn't change the lengths to fit into a different vehicle though.

[Byatch]

Not knowing too much about the negineering side of your design, I would suggest possibly having the locating points on the bottom U-beam drilled at different lengths, with spring-loaded locating pins? this might be an easier/cheaper way of getting around the wheelbase problem.

just a thought..

[dmwill]

Well...my old man used to transport his dirt bike round in the trailer by having a removeable steel beam/U channel...Although he still had to use straps...everyone thought it was a brilliant idea rather than trying to make the bike stand up on it's own!

I rekon it's a good idea...have you considered how the arms on each end which go over the wheels will stay secure and not flip off?

[trickyson]

Beena, the answer to your post is that one of the problems im overcoming is not just the storage and moving of bikes, but in fact a quick and easy way to transport them, in situations like shuttling, etc. The saris Koolrack idea is a problem in that it involves the removal of the front wheel, which, in the cases of many of our bikes, is an extremely time consuming procedure with thru-axles and the like. However the piston mounting system for the attatchment of the rack is something I have considered to keep my design firmly planted in the vehicle.


Sweeper, thanks for the link, im sure I can add that to my project as a persons current solution to their problem, but unfortunately it is no help to me in terms of my designing of the rack.


Byatch, as i said earlier, the pivoting main struts of the job actually manage to compensate for wheelbase lengths between about 1m to 1.3m, so there was no need for a system like that to be added. However I considered the idea if i was to make it BMX friendly, however if I was to do that, I would probably just mount the holes for one of the ends struts closer to the middle. Ruling out any need for a moving mount on the U channels underside when connected to its framework.

dmwill, the idea of a channel is not new, it has, as you said, been used for moto's for quite some time now. I'm just building on an already tried and tested idea, and adding some of my own thoughts to it.
As for the struts keeping themselves on, I apologise for my lack of detail on the system, but I'll explain.

See pic below for what im explaining.
The main (longest) struts hold the wheel in place, with a pin up the top keeping downwards pressure on the wheel. The shorter struts have an elongated hole cut into them (in red), so as to allow a pin (shown in blue) with a butterfly nut on top, to slide along and compensate for changes in overall length. What is not shown is the 24inch pin, if you can imagine, just slightly lower down on the main strut than the one holding the 26inch tyres in.

Hope this clarifys the design somewhat.

Thanks for all the constructive feedback.
Angus.

[slo]

we can only fit three bikes in my '86 econovan with a rack system similar to that, due to bar widths :( two nose first and one tail first...

[trickyson]

Yeah. Thankfully i have a fairly large van to use that can accomodate 4 bikes across. I've estimated an overall width at the widest to be in the vacinity of 1.5m (given bar widths of the 4 bikes to be about 60cm). If that is too much for the vehicle in question, im making it sectionable to 4 bikes, 3 bikes, and 2 bikes on the framework. Making widths of 1.5m(4), 90cm(3) and 60cm(2).

[trickyson]

Please, keep adding to the poll, and if you do, it would actually be helpful to me if you said why you could use or why you couldnt use the rack.Thanks again.
Angus.

[matty foy]

Yeah gus, the design looks the goods! Can' wait to see the final project, i recon its a great idea

[Sam The Man]

if the design in yoiur first post is being used, you will want to take note that disc brakes may hit the bars, and that bike wheel bases vary considerably, effecting the placing of the two angled bars, and also the disc brake problem

[trickyson]

Yeah, ive taken all that into account, and the closest they will get to the disk is when i have a very long wheelbase bike in the rack, in the case of my research, the longest i found to be was the large model Specialized Demo9. It still doesn't touch the disk if you fitted it with Hope 9 inch rotors. It took many scale drawings to determine the lengths of struts and angles used, but it is sorted on the final product.

Thanks for the replies, and like i said before, any additions to the poll or this thread would be much appreciated, just keep the replies relevant.

Angus.

Edit: Just so you know, that drawing in the first post is way off scale. Just knocked it up in paint to give you an idea of the way it works.

[hutchy]

http://www.saris.com/products/cycleon.htm

This looks kinda similar to what I think you're trying to design....

The site doesn't really give much detail I've used one and they work well. it's obviously designed around side loading only but the idea ad the way they've implemented it is pretty good. They look a little light on but they're well strong enough to hold DH bikes.

[trickyson]

Thanks for the link there mate, I have to fill up ridiculous numbers of pages with the stuff, so keep it coming :).


Please keep adding to the poll, it will end in like 7 days, so this is your last chance to add to it :o .

Thanks for all the replies.
Angus.

[Roly]

looks good. :)
The brand Thule makes a bike rack a lot like that but the wheels are strapped in around the rim and an "arm" reaches up to grab the fram and secure it.

Having said that they're pretty expensive but damn good. :cool:

pics are:

[gorno]

i would use it but i dont have a ute or a van and i wouldn't want to pull a trailer around every where, maybe you could add something like an adapter or something so it can go on a tow bar or something.
Just an idea, looks good though would work real well. Dylan

[protecon]

You also have to take into account that not many vehicles have the inner dimensions to take a DH rig standing up. I can't stand mine up inside my 4WD L300 as the height of the bike reaches 1140mm to the top of the bars, but dropping the front wheel into the sidedoor well solves this. Adding additional bikes results in diagonal stacking - not the best method I'll admit.

Perhaps a taller van such as the VW Transporter (pictured) will have the capacity to stand the bikes vertically, but then become impractical as a shuttle vehicle - I can't see these things getting up the trails comfortably.

[trickyson]

Sorry mate, but i have no idea what a 4WD L300 is, all i know, is that any van, most utes, and a 6ft+ long trailer (very common) can take them. The main reason for creating this is my current problem with my van in having a bloody struggle to get a bunch of bikes in, and, several thousand occy straps later, their somewhat snug, but that whole process takes like 5mins at least.

Basically, if your interested, if you have 1.8m in length on the floor for the base channel to go, and enough headroom for a bike, it will fit. It was never intended for use in a car/station wagon as none have sufficient height to take a bike.

Ralph, that thule rack is a good one, but i can't see that little hand thing holding on to the likes of Orange, Santa Cruz, or any other thick monocoque or similar frames. Also, I can't say I'd like to trust my DH rig to a somewhat lightweight build of bike rack, or for that matter on my roof. (many reasons, everyone has there own)

As for your post gorno, i have considered it, but its verging on excessive to have that many uses, however, given more time to work on the project, it would be perfectly suited to the rear of a vehicle, as the base channel is made of solid-as 3mm galvanised iron plate.

Thanks for all the replies and keep 'em coming.
Angus.

[protecon]

Sorry mate, but i have no idea what a 4WD L300 is
This (http://forums.farkin.net/showpost.php?p=407232&postcount=2) is an L300 Delica - also sold in Australia badged as a "Starwagon 4WD".

[Acadian]

http://www.utahmountainbiking.com/bikerack/makerack.htm

[trickyson]

Thanks for posting the link but unfortunately......

Take a look at this website:
http://www.utahmountainbiking.com/bikerack/makerack.htm

The guy has made a bike rack out of PVC pipe, to fit into the tray of a Ford F150. No reason you couldn't change the lengths to fit into a different vehicle though.

Someone beat you to it.

As for you Protecon, the delica is unfortunately quite a small van, and only a semi-van (I made that up) at that, with 4WD and a Turbo. I'm surprised however that it isnt tall enough in the back section to fit a bike, but however, if its the case, there is one semi-exception (there I go again) to my statement of 'any van'.

This is becoming more than what I expected from the site, keep the intelligent posts coming.
Thanks.
Angus.

[trickyson]

The final piece is coming together nicely for those of you who are interested, watch this space for some actual pictures of one of the 'carriers' in action.

A question to anyone who gets this far in... Would you be worried about the weight of a bike rack like this if it is to consist of 4 (or 3 or 2 or 1) bike 'carriers' all mounted on a framework to go in your vehicle?

The entire job is probably going to weigh upwards of 30kg when all 4 are attatched and all framework connected (without bikes).
Take into consideration how often you are going to add/remove the rack from your van/ute/trailer.

Thanks for any constructive feedback in advance, and keep the polls coming. It is doing me a great favour by adding to this thread.

Angus.

[Roly]

Trickyson, you are underestimating how unbelievably strong these racks are. I understand ur point of view but they do, and the only difficulty with them is that some FR/DH frames have tubing that the arm won't extend to, but otherwise... :)

[fat_tyre_nick]

Hey, Im not sure whether someone has already said this idea but here it is with a diagram.

My idea is exactly the same but on the rear bar you basically reaplace it with a gas strut. So that you can wheel the front wheel in, pull down the rear bar, put the rear wheel in and let the gas strut rise to lock the rear wheel in.

This would be a much simpler design which requires much less effort to lock the bike in.

hope this helps

[THRILLHOUSE]

Just on that post, what i have seen is the things that pull over the front and rear wheel you just put 1 occy strap between them and she holds beautifuly.. probably so obvious to you but just thought I would share it