Church and State part 2.

[johnny]

It's official, Bush is a fricken fruit loop!

Bush said God told him to invade: report
October 7, 2005 - 9:33AM
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/god-told-me-to-invade-bush/2005/10/07/1128562970098.html

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y292/Johnnylovegod/georgebush_wideweb__430x279.jpg
On a mission from God ... George Bush
Photo: AP

A BBC program says US President George W Bush has claimed he was instructed by God to invade Iraq and Afghanistan.

The claim comes from the first meeting between the US leader, Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas, and his then foreign minister in June 2003.

The ministers told the BBC Bush also said he'd been told by God to create a Palestinian state.

The BBC plans to broadcast the programs Israel and the Arabs: Elusive Peace in Britain over three Mondays starting next week.

Meanwhile, President Bush has accused militants of seeking to establish a "radical Islamic empire" with its base in Iraq. He also said the United States and its allies had foiled at least 10 plots by the al-Qaeda terrorist network in the past four years. Bush warned other nations not to support or harbour groups with al-Qaeda ties.

In a speech designed to revive flagging public support for the war in Iraq, Bush said Islamic radicals were using that nation as a base for attacks. Such radicals are being sheltered by "allies of convenience like Syria and Iran", Bush declared in a speech before the National Endowment for Democracy. Polls showed declining American support for the war had so far claimed more than 1940 members of the US military.

Bush's policy faces a crucial test in Iraq's October 15 referendum on a new constitution, a vote Bush has said terrorists will try to derail. "There's always a temptation in the middle of a long struggle to seek the quiet life, to escape the duties and problems of the world and to hope the enemy grows weary of fanaticism and tired of murder," Bush said. "We will keep our nerve and we will win that victory," he said. His remarks were clearly aimed at those seeking a withdrawal of US troops.

Asked about the president's singling out of Iran and Syria as "allies of convenience," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said, "They continue to move in the wrong direction."

AAP

I know this will turn into another Bush bashing thread, but I was wondering what Farkin's Christian community think of
1/ the separation of policy and religion, and
2/ Having G.W. Bush as your poster boy?

Myself, I think it is damn scary that some one who hears voices is calling the global shots.

Funny how God tells him to bomb the shit out of people, yet when Georgey Porgey is out on his mountain bike God doesn't say, "Hey, watch out for that tree, or look out for that police officer"!

Guess God likes G.W. as much as he likes the Iraqis.........

[josh123]

Man, i would love to see what goes on in that guy's head....not a lot! He thiks that that sorta comment justifies why America's going to invade...FRIGGIN REDICULOUS!!!

[R33F]

Johnny, not to mis-direct the topic, but please answer me this,

Who is the mastermind behind Bush ? He is surely a puppet in the big scheme.

Who tell's him to say this stuff ? Not his "writers" ? Who tells them what to write ?

Do you think there is more to it ?

If this is really the thoughts of Bush, then we are really in alot of trouble.

[johnny]

Who is the mastermind behind Bush ? He is surely a puppet in the big scheme.

Who tell's him to say this stuff ? Not his "writers" ? Who tells them what to write ?

This is where the bulk of American foreign policy comes from.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm

Read the statement and the names below. Google the ones you don't recognise. They are a collection of Cold War actors that worked under Nixon and Reagan. They are still well stuck in the Cold War deterrence policy mindset (I've just written 2000 words on the current situation regarding North Korea and the Cold War mindset of these poeple mentioned above and how it fails to reslove the situation, because the cold war paradigm is dead......if anyone is interested in reading it.).

Basically it's Bush Snr, Dick Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice, Perle, Donald Frum, Fukyama etc...

Bush himself is stuck in this whole democratic peace theory. It's a theory that came about during industrialisation (Circa 1880). People thought that through international trade and money systems that the world could not afford to go to war anymore, it would be too costly in financial terms because all the major countries were interdependent with trade and resource supply/demand.

Ww1 obviously proved that wrong especially seeing as it was BECAUSE of industrialisation/production. When the Cold War ended and Communism was sliding into oblivion, Francis Fukyama wrote a thesis called "The End of History". You can hear Rage Against the MAchine sing about "History frozen still, there is no other pill to take except the one that makes you ill" in Sleep now in the Fire. What they are talking about is that Fukyama said that because capitalism had defeated Communism, the whole world was going to re-adjust to capitalism/consumerism/market practices to survive in the dominant economic ideology/paradigm so they would all become free markets too.

Fukyama thought that this would also generalise to government and therefore the whole world would be a democracy. That's where democratic peace theory (or McDonalds peace theory, because all democracies have a McDonalds Somewhere) comes into it. The same theory has come back, now we say, again, that markets are too interdependent to afford war (trade breaks down in conflict). Therefore there would be no more conflict or war, and therefore nothing new to write about in the history books......hence the end of history.

Yet in the space of 15 years this has proved wrong again.

1. Islamo-fascism has created a new pole for ideologies to gravitate too (what, did Fukyama think that Capitalism and Communism were the only two ideologies in the world:confused: :rolleyes: ) and run as a counter balance and opposition to western democracy.

2. China is restructuring its market to a free economy without democratising its system of governance.

Bush has actually found another book which I cannot recall right now. Basically it's the same tired old theory for fools like Bush who don't know their history to get all worked up over. So he is calling shots himself, but they are heavily influenced by the Pax Americana Cold War warriors who simply refuse to pull up a rocking chair and read Huckelbery Finn.

Sorry my answers are so long, but these are complex issues that simply cannot be explained by one line answers if they are going to be anywhere near accurate.

[Dumbellina]

There are asylums the world over (or homeless people in Australia) who hear mysterious voices. So its true Bush is a Schizophrenic, all those years of alcohol, drugs and cocaine. The man with the bombs hears some twit in his head tell him to do it.

I don't think its necessarily only a christian thing. "Extremist" Muslim clerics, Zionist Rabbis all claim to say god supports their lunatic beliefs.

But it does point to the fact that Bush is pushing the western world into a ceaseless conflict based not on terrorism, but misguide religious conviction.

[johnny]

White House denies Bush God claim
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4317498.stm

President Bush is said to have made the comments in 2003
The White House has dismissed as "absurd" allegations made in a BBC TV series that President Bush claimed God told him to invade Iraq.

"He's never made such comments," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said. The comments were attributed to Mr Bush by the Palestinian negotiator Nabil Shaath in the upcoming TV series Elusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs.

Mr Shaath said that in a 2003 meeting with Mr Bush, the US president said he was "driven with a mission from God".

Holy war?

"President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan. And I did, and then God would tell me, George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq... And I did.

"'And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East. And by God I'm gonna do it.'"

Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, who attended the meeting in June 2003 too, also appears on the documentary series to recount how Mr Bush told him: "I have a moral and religious obligation. So I will get you a Palestinian state."

The TV series charts recent attempts to bring peace to the Middle East, from former US President Bill Clinton's peace talks in 1999-2000 to Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip this year.

It seeks to uncover what happened behind closed doors by speaking to presidents and prime ministers, along with their generals and ministers.

[R33F]

But it does point to the fact that Bush is pushing the western world into a ceaseless conflict based not on terrorism, but misguide religious conviction.

But Bush is using the "Terrorism" cloak do guide things the way he wants, no matter what his agenda.

Will Bin Laden be another Elvis ? Or Marylin ?

Bin Laden is probably laid up in some American Army Base, being treated like royality. But while Bush is chasing him, he has an open cheque book to invade who ever the fark he likes under the "War on Terrorism"

Thanks for your reply before Johnny, I am still "Googling" information. :D

[Binaural]

Bush seems a bit of a dolt but I wonder if this is a bit of a frame-up. After all, telling that sort of thing to a Palestinian negotiator would not exactly delight the israelis, who would have been involved in any negotiations as well.

Even if it is true, the president has to go through congress to go to war, and there is no question that he enjoyed very broad support there. So regardless of his personal reasons, a wide variety of people in the various branches of contributed and helped the war get under way and share responsibility for how it goes. So suggesting the US went to war based on what GW heard in his head is a bit of a red herring.

Mind you, if it is true that the most powerful man in the world is guided by voices..... well, at least he's not saying "braaaaaaiiiinnnnnnnssss...." over and over :p

[PINT of Stella, mate!]

Rumour has it he's back on the sauce as well...

Nothing like having a pissed madman at the helm. Let's get Yeltsin back in power, elect Mark Latham and have a televised UN meeting in Prague!

[johnny]

Even if it is true, the president has to go through congress to go to war, and there is no question that he enjoyed very broad support there. So regardless of his personal reasons, a wide variety of people in the various branches of contributed and helped the war get under way and share responsibility for how it goes. So suggesting the US went to war based on what GW heard in his head is a bit of a red herring.

This is true, but the Reps have control over both the senate and congress. They will mostly vote upon party lines.

[GuRhInDiZzLe]

despite all the denial im sure he said it. but what does it say about him. waht can u say. all u can do is sigh in frustration