Democracy!

[zids]

ok, after an interesting discussion in history today i am just wondering what farkiners in general think of democracy, Australian governemnt, and the concept of democracy.

I am particularly interested in things such as, do we live in a "democracy"? is a democracy ever achievable? what is a democracy IN REALITY - what would it require?

I must admit that my views on this topic are very limited, though i will still express them. In my opinion, our government in its current state, is far from a democracy. A democracy, is a system of government where the people make the decisions, not elected politicians on behalf of the people. People will argue that we vote for them democratically and they represent the majority of people, and act according to what the people think, however, in reality, there are alot of people who dont vote e.g. minors & people who are unregistered on the voting role. As well as this, did Johnny ask us wether we wanted to wage war against Iraq? clearly not.

I also believe that a democracy is not achievable in any nation in the wolrd, at this time. this is for many reasons, two main ones being population and education. it is impossible for even a small country like Australia to have all of its population vote on every decison. Education wise, people who are uneducated, cannot make informed decisions, and thus make very bias decisions e.g. on behalf of parents, friends co-workers.

I am very interested in peoples opinions and ideas on the topics i have brought up, though i do not want this post to degenerate into "i hate the government" post.

[berkyburger123]

I'd say that australian democracy is just a way of the politicians getting what they want and making it seem like we chose it. We choose our leader yet we dont make any other decisions

True democracy is unacheivable as it is too hard, requires a perfectly honest government (name 1) and other unacheivable things. The only type of government that could be seen as this honest is like the "kingdom of god" but thats a kingdom, we dont appoint the yearly jesus. (Oh and theres the little problem of sending bills through to some heaven type place)

Achieving a true democracy is above humans because we lie, act selfishly and against what we know is right and are always being tricky.

But I still think the abstraction of true democracy that we live under is still the best form of government. Monarchies and a fuedal systme is just over, totalitarianism etc are all a little extreme but the grip the democratic leaders have on us is slightly less noticable than it could be.

I suppose we could ask for a better government but we could only get it so good.

[zids]

Achieving a true democracy is above humans because we lie, act selfishly and against what we know is right and are always being tricky.


i fail to see how this keeps us from a democracy. a democracy is simply decions made for the people by the peopl, or a "peoples government". in a democracy, people can lie, cheat murder and be as "tricky" as they want, but as long as everyoen has a say, it si a democracy. However, i do belive that people lust for power is an obstacle fro democracy, as there will always be peopel seeking more power and control over others. As wel as this, there are "natural born leaders" who simply lead, and others follow, when htis occurs, a democracy is very hard to amintai/create.

[berkyburger123]

Sorry for being unclear, a democracy is based on an honest system in which we all have our say but if a government really wanted something done eg war on terror they could manipulate us by trickery. By being the untruthful people we are we can get our way by giving people the wrong idea.

Real democracy requires honesty.

[berkyburger123]

Anyway its differing opinions or understandings of the concept like this one that are probably the reason alex [-spelling (i think its alecks)] started this thread.

[dylma]

one thought sprung to mind when reading this

anyone notice that we keep being told our time on earth is limited because of pollution, and that australians must do something about it?
and yet we (well actualy our great mate johnny),spends hundreds of millions of dollars on a war on the otherside of the planet?
(just to let you know, australia is the 5th worse polluter to the world, and a country the least enviromental treatys under its belt, behind the usa).

[PINT of Stella, mate!]

A true democracy is almost physically impossible in any culture.

Unfortunately for our potential elected leaders to stand a chance of gaining power they must persuade the majority of voters to tick in the right box. In today's increasingly marketing driven society this relies not so much on who has the best policies but who has the loudest voice! (random unrelated examples: Betamax vs VHS, PS2 vs X-Box, Summer Blockbusters vs Classic low budget flicks, The recent New York Mayoral election)

Campaign budgets now spiral out of control, way beyond the means of 90% of candidates. This is where the old campaign donations come in. The more you donate the more of the politician you have in your pocket so when the ballots have been counted and everyone is sitting comfortably in their new seats of power the donators come knocking for special favours with the promise of more money next election.

Before the Bush PR machine got into gear and portrayed the war in Iraq as being a necessity in the War Against Terror and the very thought of not supporting the troops being tantamount to High Treason and potential frenchness, most Americans couldn't give a crap about Saddam Hussein and Iraq but the interests of US oil and oil service companies demanded action so off they went dragging the rest of us along with them!

Every election there are candidates who actually give a shit, want to do some good and wish to remain outside of the 'old boy's network' thatruns in most political systems but their voices are lost in amongst the din of constant prime time tv ads made by rather shrewd and manipulative marketing companies. The rare exceptions who do manage to get elected soon find themselves powerless and without a voice as the interest is centred on the two main parties.


Unfortunately over the years the persuasive powers of the marketing and advertising industries have become so immense that 'resistance is futile!'

I wish I could suggest a better alternative but the sad fact is that this is the best system we've got...

Well apart from an autocratic new world order governed by myself!