carbon

[freeride_sweet]

ive almost finished completing upgrading my whole bike, the only things left i have leaf r my seat tube and seat,

ive been looking at easton carbon seat pole (so light) and some seat with carbon base, gel and titanium rails (really light to), but is it worth getting these things, ive been told that carbon smooths the ride, as i only have an alloy frame, the ride can be a bit rought, i thought it might be nice, it also takes nearly 500gs off the weight bringing the bike weight sub 9kg,

cheers
nick

[FR Drew]

Step one I'd suggest would be to take a look at www.mtbreview.com for the parts you are considering purchasing. See what folks have said. You'll be bale to get a feel for the type of person using them, how they ride and how the parts hold up under those conditions.

Not all carbon "smooths the ride". The beauty of carbon is that you can strongly influence how stiff, flexible, strong, light, vibration absorbing etc that it is by how you lay the weave down, how much resin is used etc etc.

Example:

I have a Token kevlar and carbon saddle that has kevlar over a thin layer of foam with a carbon base and ti rails. The way it's built, the body of the saddle flexes between the rail mountings and it provides lots of cushioning.
(It also weighs 170g and it suits the shape of my butt and I find it far more comfortable than my SDG Bel Air which has thicker padding but doesn't absorb shock)
Cost was 130 ish and the model number is TK956.

Compare that to the Token Pyrotec sadldes that are just carbon. They save 30g to be 140g, have no kevlar, no foam and NO FLEX. They are like rock. They won't cushion a thing.

Both saddles have a carbon body but one is constructed to be shock absorbing, the other is not.

Lots of folks swear by carbon seatposts, some folks won't gon near em for fear of getting a splintered carbon tube up the date if things go sour (fair nuff).

If you're shopping for Easton carbon then you have a decent sized budget allocated. Me, I strongly suggest you check out the Moots Ti layback post. It's a shade heavier than the easton carbon posts but it DOES absorb a heap of shock and vibration and it won't bend break or splinter on you. I think you'd be up for somewhere in the ballpark of 300 to get one landed in Australia.

BTW, you can bypass Le Tour Cycles, the Australian distributor for Moots and go direct to the company to order it without feeling any guilt at all. When I made enquiries to them about getting one they said they couldn't be bothered and i should go order it online. Hell of a way to remain a sole Australian distributor but that's another story. Suffice to say, you'll get it cheaper and faster from Moots.

I've had one on my hardtail for a year and a half now and it's worth its weight in gold. (actually double its weight at least cos it's not that heavy).

Originally I was riding a DaBomb Molotov which is a hell stiff 4X frame that has no flex in the construction and was having sore back problems. Fitted the Moots and i was in comfy land straight away.

Yes, the price hurts but you'll thank yourself you spent the dollars and you won't have to spend time worrying "what if the carbon post breaks???"

Hope I've been of help,

Drew

[bighitter]

seatposts are the only place i will no longer use carbon due to an incident on the roadie during a race. I now use a thomson Masterpiece on both my road and mtb's and there is absolutely no difference in feel between the al thomson and the carbon posts i have used (fsa k force lite, use alien, ec90 etc...) + the masterpiece is just as light and twice as nice, and has the extra bling of not many people having one and everyone having carbon posts

Edit - as for saddles, try out a fizik aliante, most comfortable saddle available. but its not cheap

[freeride_sweet]

seatposts are the only place i will no longer use carbon due to an incident on the roadie during a race. I now use a thomson Masterpiece on both my road and mtb's and there is absolutely no difference in feel between the al thomson and the carbon posts i have used (fsa k force lite, use alien, ec90 etc...) + the masterpiece is just as light and twice as nice, and has the extra bling of not many people having one and everyone having carbon posts

Edit - as for saddles, try out a fizik aliante, most comfortable saddle available. but its not cheap

that thopson sounds nice and looks it to, but wats the price tag on one of those,

also what was the incident u had with the carbon post?

cheers
nick,

[scratchy]

Say no to Carbon Seatposts! Brittle failure anyone?

[Squidly Didly]

Say no to Carbon Seatposts! Brittle failure anyone?
If he's accurate about his bike being sub 9kg (highly doubtful), then a carbon seat post would be the last of my worries ...
Unless of course this is on a road bike (which is also probable as this forum is combined (Scott))!

[bhipsley]

If he's accurate about his bike being sub 9kg (highly doubtful), then a carbon seat post would be the last of my worries ...
Unless of course this is on a road bike (which is also probable as this forum is combined (Scott))!

I'd say roadie if its sub 9kgs but then again some people are good at keeping there rigs weight to a minimum :rolleyes: ^^

[Fatman]

I agree, especially after having a look at weightweenies. An alloy frame XC bike that light would have to be pretty special, I thought mine was reasonably light at around 10kgs. Even my Six13 with partially carbon frame, forks,bars,seatpost is over 7.5kgs (I probably should have got the optimo frame instead).
I'm a pretty heavy person and I have had no drama's with carbon seatposts, I did have to retire a less than day old carbon DH bar due to a gouge though, even though Easton say their stuff isn't 'notch sensitive' I don't think I'll chance it. It's hard not to love carbon parts.:o

[bighitter]

a 9kg (almost 20lb )mtb isnt really that special, or dificult to build

[McBain]

a 9kg (almost 20lb )mtb isnt really that special, or dificult to buildEspecially when sub 6kg is doable - freaky, but doable:

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/images/heinz_wittmann/scale_limited_01.jpg (http://weightweenies.starbike.com/articles.php?ID=94)

Weighs all of 5878 g - that's below the legal UCI limit (of 6.8kg).
Before you ask, no, not mine :p (I reckon it'd break if I just looked at it, let alone rode it!)

[hdtvkss]

jaysus! my carbon busting ass would go to town on that thing! i need to borrow that for the dirt crit tomorrow :D

[M@DM!KE]

I have ridden carbon posts and bars for the last few years on my roadie and mtb without a single hickup. I weigh 85kg and love to thrash trails whenever i ride. I am not particularly easy on my gear. I love destroying cranks, wheels etc but haven't had any carbon breakage issues.
On the contrary, my mate has a very similar bike setup to me (Blur, XTR, Crossmax etc) except he uses a Thomson post. He cracked 1 post vertically from the join down and the thread stripped out of the clamp head on another. He weighs under 70kgs and manages a bike shop. The post is the only thing he has ever damaged on his blur! I am more than happy with my sexy carbon EC70 post.

[freeride_sweet]

If he's accurate about his bike being sub 9kg (highly doubtful), then a carbon seat post would be the last of my worries ...
Unless of course this is on a road bike (which is also probable as this forum is combined (Scott))!

yes its a roadie, so sub 9 ins't that hard to achive, i wat to get it sub 8, but that involves a new frame and fork combo

ok, so wats the way to go, the thopson master peice or the easton carbon.

[hdtvkss]

ive broken both an allow post and a carbon post. alloy post just was defective, the one that came on my Cindercone and decided to come appart while going down some nice singletrail.... not the best of fun.

carbon post i broke on a test bike. but thats to be expected when you see how people over tighten them when setting up for their riedes, i run a carbon post at the moment and im comfortable with it, touch wood!

[bighitter]

dont get me wrong, i love my carbon parts and run on the mtb -
carbon Bars, stem, bar ends, top cap, spacers, bottle cage, crank arms, fork crown/steerer, derailleur cage, saddle (aliante carbon)

and on the roadie i run -
carbon bars, spacers, top cap, bottle cage, cranks, fork, saddle, pedals, rear end, qr's, and seat collar

so as you can see i dont have a hatred of carbon, unless its in the form of a seatpost ;) . as for my bad experience it was during a race, and i hit a really small ditch in the road (more like a uneven surface, and the seatpost snapped almost clean off at the mid point, the post was torqued correctly with a syntace torque wrench, so it wasnt that.
Thomson masterpiece's are a shade over $300 i think

[hdtvkss]

thats interesting, i personly would be more concerned about carbon bars than a seatpost. if a post breaks, its not ideal but chances are i can get the bike under control and come to a satisfactory stop. yes, there are chances of it splitnering, but i run thickish shorts when i ride so i feel chances of that are less, also when ive broken a carbon post its done so at the clamp.

with carbon bars, i think they take a bigger knock when you come off potentially and if they break , well id say your going down no matter what and your dentist probably wont be able to stop smiling! :o

[scratchy]

thats interesting, i personly would be more concerned about carbon bars than a seatpost.

Being around MTBs for any length of time you'll see 50 bent seatposts for every bent handlebar. Handlebars have forks absorbing impact etc.

[M@DM!KE]

Many poeple, and some research suggests that carbon is not the ideal material for seatposts. The seatpost IS subject to high loads, generally in the same direction. This would make any material subject to stress/breakage. I have broken more alloy posts than i care to remember. I guess there will always be horror stories, from both sides of the table, carbon vs alloy. I have owned 3 carbon posts (2 x easton) and 2 sets of carbon bars (easton and answer) that have survived the last two years of abuse on my mountain and road bikes. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the use of a carbon post on a road bike. Makes an all day ride just that much more bearable. You can also get away using a lighter/less padded seat.
Good luck with your research/shopping.

[freeride_sweet]

hmmm, this hasn't made my desision any easyer, i have to say that ive never broken a seat post road riding, but thats also because i have a 5mm think tubing seat post (heavy) and before that i had a steel one, but anyway

ok, so if i buy a alloy seat post what would be the best seat to buy, not so much brand names, just material mixes, i have a seat in mind titanium rails carbon base, gel incert and some material on top, flexy but no to much and comfortable, and its got that section cut out down the middle (don't know if it makes any difference but thats what i've been told)

cheers
nick

[scratchy]

\ what would be the best seat to buy,

One that fits your bum and is right for you.

Seriously, what do you expect us to recomend you, your handle is Freeride Sweet with a guy hucking off a billboard.

Looking at that alone I'd say one with Cr-Mo rails!

A seat is the most subjective piece of equipment. I can't tell you which one would be the right seat. I can tell you which ones are popular, but why they are popular is multi faceted. Marketing, Pro sponsorship or actually being a good seat.

[freeride_sweet]

One that fits your bum and is right for you.

Seriously, what do you expect us to recomend you, your handle is Freeride Sweet with a guy hucking off a billboard.

Looking at that alone I'd say one with Cr-Mo rails!

A seat is the most subjective piece of equipment. I can't tell you which one would be the right seat. I can tell you which ones are popular, but why they are popular is multi faceted. Marketing, Pro sponsorship or actually being a good seat.

im not looking for you to tell me the exact seat seat to buy, im looking for what materials would be best suited, im looking to make my ride smoother and in not buying a carbon seat tube im trying to find out what would be the right seat materials to buy, i know that you cant tell me that a certain seat it the way to go, but a little direction on what would make the ride better for my arse,

and dude my handle has nothing to do with this, this is a threat about my road bike, what has that got to do with hucking off a billboard, what i do with my other rides has no relevance to the way i ride my road bike,

[Fatman]

Some people here have had a hard time with carbon posts, I on the other hand weigh quite a bit and have been using a Use Alien carbon post with a Ti rail Fizik Arione saddle. With no issues for over a year. 3 of my bikes have carbon posts, all without dramas. I find carbon posts effective in dampening some road noise, not all of course. But this has alot to do with tyre pressure, frame type, wheels, saddle, the whole thing. I'm not convinced that just changing the post will ultimately change the ride a great deal.

[FR Drew]

hmmm, this hasn't made my desision any easyer.

ok, so if i buy a alloy seat post what would be the best seat to buy, not so much brand names, just material mixes, i have a seat in mind titanium rails carbon base, gel incert and some material on top, flexy but no to much and comfortable, and its got that section cut out down the middle (don't know if it makes any difference but thats what i've been told)

cheers
nick

For my money, as I said higher up the thread, the Moots layback seatpost and the Token kevlar covered carbon saddle with Ti rails (TK956). You're looking at a total of 395g for the pair together (225 + 170) and an outlay of somewhere around $430.

The combination is strong, fairly light and damps vibration significantly while not having you worrying about coming to grief due to breakage.

Plus, the Moots post is SOOOOOOOOO porn it's astounding. Aircraft spec welds aren't done as nicely as this post.

(Oh, I should warn you though, getting saddles into the seat clamp is an utter bas**rd. It clamps great once they're in but the install process is no fun.)

[freeride_sweet]

For my money, as I said higher up the thread, the Moots layback seatpost and the Token kevlar covered carbon saddle with Ti rails (TK956). You're looking at a total of 395g for the pair together (225 + 170) and an outlay of somewhere around $430.

The combination is strong, fairly light and damps vibration significantly while not having you worrying about coming to grief due to breakage.

Plus, the Moots post is SOOOOOOOOO porn it's astounding. Aircraft spec welds aren't done as nicely as this post.

(Oh, I should warn you though, getting saddles into the seat clamp is an utter bas**rd. It clamps great once they're in but the install process is no fun.)
i have to say i think i will get that combo if i can get the money together, it was a little more than i wanted to pay but i sounds really good to me, but i think ill get the straight post, and also i have been looking at some of the token stuff and it looks really nice, and its not to pricey either,

santa has my list now:p

thanks for the help guys

(edit) and the sweet thing is i cant get the shortest one, therefore the lightest one, lol not much difference anyway but still

[FR Drew]

The forward backward flex in the layback post plays a significant role in the shock absorption abilities.

If the geometry of your bike will allow you to use the layback post instead that'd be preferable to the straight version.

[freeride_sweet]

The forward backward flex in the layback post plays a significant role in the shock absorption abilities.

If the geometry of your bike will allow you to use the layback post instead that'd be preferable to the straight version.

yer i can see where your coming from there, but i have my seat almost all the way forward cause i have a largish frame and legs that don't suit my arms :p, so the layback should stuff up my reach length, it wouldn't be bad for short races but longer ones and training it might have its effects, but ill see how it goes with the seat i chose,

will moot's send to australia, their web site doesn't have the option to send to australia, but ill send them an email and find out,

cheers
nick

[scratchy]

and dude my handle has nothing to do with this, this is a threat about my road bike, what has that got to do with hucking off a billboard, what i do with my other rides has no relevance to the way i ride my road bike,

Don't want to start a war dude but where the hell did you state this was for a road bike?
This area is for Cross Country Mountain Bikes and Road. I didn't assume because it makes an ass of u & me ;)

With no further info on what style of riding you did on your bike, what sort of bike (full sus XC, HT or Road) I'm not about to recommend anything. The only thing that gave any clues about what you do is your handle and your avatar, sorry if you took that the wrong way. Maybe 9kgs might have been a hint if I was really paying attention.

If you'd provided more accurate info to start with rather than a one word title for instance we collectively may have been able to give you more accurate info. I'm sure some of the other posters would have assumed the info you were requesting was for a MTB. Considering this is a MTB site, it's pretty much only road when you say it's road, otherwise its MTBing.

Certainly what materials I use and recommend vary widely between XC and Rd.

Regardless. SLR saddle anyone? They certainly seem to be popular and seem to have enough padding in the right spots. How many Ks do you do a week? Your condition has a lot to do with what saddle works.

[FR Drew]

Definitely, send them an email asking for the item to be shipped.

If they state that you should be using the Australian distributor then please feel free to inform them that another Moots customer

Andrew Pearce
contactable at
andrew.pearce@awm.gov.au

contacted Le Tour cycles last year wanting to purchase a Moots seatpost and was told (and I quote)

"It's an expensive item, do you really want one? We really don't want to have to deal with it, maybe you should just order it online."

They are welcome to contact me if they have any issues with this, as far as I'm concerned, if the sole australian distributor can't get the lead out of their arse then they deserve a rocket from the manufacturer. People bitch about losing sales to the net dealers and then crap like this happens!

If you tie up the distribution in a country you ought to be actively promoting the product, if not then you shouldn't have sole distributorship.

Good luck with it.

[bighitter]

before you go ahead and buy parts based on others and the look of the parts etc...
what saddle and post have you got at the moment ? and are you happy with the shape of the saddle ?and are only changing to lose some weight ? or are you unhappy with the fit of your current saddle.

as with the post, what is it made of, and again are you only changing to lose weight ?

If you are and it does sound this way, try a few lighter parts that are similar in spec to your current ones and not something radically different

[freeride_sweet]

firstly, just to clarify

Don't want to start a war dude but where the hell did you state this was for a road bike?
This area is for Cross Country Mountain Bikes and Road. I didn't assume because it makes an ass of u & me ;)

yes its a roadie, so sub 9 ins't that hard to achive, i wat to get it sub 8,
sorry but i did say it was for a roadie, just not in the first place maybe i should have done that, sorry

before you go ahead and buy parts based on others and the look of the parts etc...
what saddle and post have you got at the moment ? and are you happy with the shape of the saddle ?and are only changing to lose some weight ? or are you unhappy with the fit of your current saddle.

as with the post, what is it made of, and again are you only changing to lose weight ?

If you are and it does sound this way, try a few lighter parts that are similar in spec to your current ones and not something radically different
well im not happy with my saddle and the moment, after a ride of more than and hour i go all numb, and i recently did a 8 hour ride and i was numb for 2 days, my saddle at the moment is just one with a plactic base and leather coating, its really hard, and has no give at all, i think its more of a racing seat and i only race every three to four weeks so its not worth it

and the post is made of titmanium, and yes im changing it for weight becuase my current one weighs close to 600 grams, but as far as i can tell the post are similar, its just a weight change, but im and going to have to recearch the seats,

[bighitter]

have you had your bike fitted to you ? or did you just set it up how yo liked ?

[freeride_sweet]

had a basic fitting, not the full deal though