Which All Mountain/ Aggressive Trail Duallie

[SCHOEY]

I am looking at hanging my 97 GT LTS Thermoplastic up on the wall after serving me well for so many years.

I am in search of an All Mountain/ Aggressive Trail Duallie. So far i have looked at the '05 Norco Six (around $3200)'06 retail around $3500 and '05 Specialized enduro elite($3199)'06 retail $4500. These are the bikes that i've seen/ridden and liked so far. All specs below.

Which of the above would you choose? Which would be best value for money? Happy to look at other brands similarly speced. Any help much appreciated


'05NORCO SIX
FRAME: Hydraform aluminum, 5.5" to 6.5" adj travel, 150x12 dropouts, CNC yoke, FOX DHX-3 7.857x2" coil shock FORK: Marzocchi Z-1 FR2 150 mm travel, QR-20. preload / rebound adj
HEADSET: FSA 870 Chromoly deep cup freeride headset CRANKS/CHAINGUIDE: Truvativ Hussefelt, dual 32/22 with bashguard, Isis spline
PEDALS Wellgo flat pedals with steel insert pins CHAIN: Sram PC-950 chain
FREEWHEEL: Sram PG-950 cassette 9sp, 11-34T FRONT CHANGER: Shimano Deore 31.8
REAR CHANGER: Sram X9 9-SP long cage SHIFTERS: Sram X9 Trigger Shifter front and rear
BAR: Truvativ Hussefelt 31.8 mm, 35 MM rise AL-66 STEM: Truvativ Hussefelt 40 mm ext, AL-6066
GRIPS: ODI Ruffian 130 mm lock on grips FRONT BRAKE: Hayes HFX-9 hydraulic 8"
REAR BRAKE: Hayes HFX-9 hydraulic 8" BRAKE LEVERS: Hayes HFX-9 levers
FRONT HUB: KDH5 20 mm through axle, IS disc mount REAR HUB: KDRN512 150 x 12 mm nutted, 8-9 sp cassette sealed bearing
RIMS: Alex Supra N 26", 32H freeride double wall SPOKES: DT Swiss 2.0 Black stainless
TIRES: Nokian NBT 26 x 2.30 Front and rear SADDLE: Titec Berzerkr comfort freeride saddle
SEATPOST: Titec Scoper telescopic seatpost 30.0

'05 Specialized Endure Elite Technical Specifications
REAR SHOCK Custom Progressive 5th Element Air, High volume twin air sleeve, CV-T position sensitive damping, adj CV-T air preasure for pedal platform and progresivity, adj rebound 8.75x2.5"
FORK Manitou Nixon Elite, 115-145mm rapid travel wind down external adj. travel, rebound and compression adj., TPC damping, alloy steerer tube
HEADSET 1 1/8" Threadless, 3x sealed, black alloy cups, cartridge bearings, ultralight alloy top cap and bolt
STEM 3D forged CNC machined, 4 bolt, 31.8mm OS clamp, 8 degree rise
HANDLEBARS Specialized Enduro Mid Rise 31.8 OS bar, 6066 Alloy, 6 degree upsweep, 8 degree backsweep, 640mm width
TAPE / GRIPS Specialized MTB grip, black, double density Kraton
FRONT BRAKE Shimano M-525 hydraulic disc, 6" rotor
REAR BRAKE Shimano M-525 hydraulic disc, 6" rotor
BRAKE LEVERS Shimano M-525 hydraulic disc
FRONT DERAILLEUR Shimano M-570 LX, 34.9 clamp, bottom pull
REAR DERAILLEUR Shimano M-750 XT, long cage, standard spring
SHIFT LEVERS Shimano M-510 Deore
CASSETTE Shimano HG-50, 9 speed, 11x34t
CHAIN Shimano HG-73
CRANKSET Custom Shimano Hollowtech, Octalink XT Spline
CHAINRINGS 44Ax32Sx22S, 4 bolt 104/64mm pattern, Steel chainring bolts
BOTTOM BRACKET Shimano ES-30 Octalink spline, 68mm shell, 118mm spindle. 50mm chainline.
PEDALS N/A
RIMS Custom SUN SOS 28mm wide Enduro disc rims, 26", black, eyelets
FRONT HUB Specialized Stout disc, 32 hole, sealed cartridge bearings
REAR HUB Shimano M-525 Disc, 32 hole, loose ball bearings, alloy Q/R
SPOKES DT Swiss 2.0mm stainless, black, brass nipples
FRONT TIRE New Specialized Enduro Pro 2.3", Aramid bead, 120 tpi, dual compound
REAR TIRE New Specialized Enduro Pro 2.3", Aramid bead, 120 tpi, dual compound
TUBES Specialized presta valve
SADDLE Specialized Enduro, hollow cromo rails
SEAT POST 6061 Butted Alloy, black, 30.9 x 350/400mm. Non-offset
SEAT BINDER Alloy collar with Q/R, 34.9mm clamp I.D.,

[Joly Joe Rider]

By all mountain i am gathering you want to ride up as well as down and genrally do a fair bit of pedaling. For that the norco sounds alright but the faiths definetly DH orietated (unless thats what you are after but don't want to say it). Wouldn't be lookn forward to pushing it back up any hills in Woomby.

[Plow King]

the norco 6 is definatly the winner here.

[SCHOEY]

The faith pedals fairly well for a big bike. i looked at the reign but they just look too breakable. The six weighs 41.5 lb so it's still up there too. Anyone know what the Faith's weigh?

[Plow King]

The faith pedals fairly well for a big bike. i looked at the reign but they just look too breakable. The six weighs 41.5 lb so it's still up there too. Anyone know what the Faith's weigh?

Too much.

I've riden a faith and to be honest, the maestro technology aint all its cracked up to be. They pedal rather bad. Hence why I am saying to get the norco, Faiths also weigh alot, I would guestimate around 25kg's

[Fatman]

If you are considering an all mountain machine and a Norco, I really like the look of their new Fluid. It looks similar to my Moment but it should be significantly cheaper, about +/- 3800 AUD.
There are so many options for this kind of rig for around the money you want to spend. These thing are more capable than your trusty GT with more travel and light weight. Just a thought.

[SCHOEY]

That's cool, that is why i am asking for opinions. Faith what was i thinking

Any other brands/models i could/should be looking at?

I think by the bikes that i've listed, you will see that i'm not that weight conscious and want something solid to do everything on, but leaning towards a bit of downhill and not always shuttle runs.

I'm not looking for something to race in any discipline.

[Fatman]

Sweet, I posted a whole load of pics of 7+ inch travel freeride bikes in this thread: http://forums.farkin.net/showthread.php?t=44845
Lots of different brands and not too lightweight either. I think you have even more choice when you go into the freeride section.

[Ivan]

How about the yeti ASX? I´m not sure about the price of them built up but everyone raves about them. I´m sure you could build one up farily light too.

I´m looking to buy a similar style of bike I think.

At the high end of the price range there´s always the SC Nomad and the Intense 6.6 . I especially like the 6.6. It´s a pity the Nomad doesn´t come with a 1.5" headtube.

[Fatman]

My AS-X weighs in at about 14kgs, but you need some pretty light components to get the weight down. I think the new frames are $2400 though, check out www.rlcsport.com.au (http://www.rlcsport.com.au)
they are on there. I think they rock.
Sorry for hijacking your thread SCHOEY.

[Sov]

SHOEY, the Norco Six you posted sounds like the '05 version. It might pay to have a look at the '06 versions as well as they're supposedly lighter than the '05s, and have a standard quick release rear end instead of the bolt thru.

I'd say the six one or six two would be within your budget.
http://www.norco.com/ts/pass/templates/bike_model.php?lang=en&loc=fs&sloc=am&tabloc=1&id=sixone&col=matteblack

[gravelclimber]

Specialized SX trail would be worth a look.

http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=12890&bikeTab=techspec

[MrCove]

not seen an old thermo LTS for 'kin years, i remember when they came out, in about '96 they were the bomb!!!

anyway, if you are looking for an 'All Mountain' then that would be something around the 5" travel mark

check out the Iron Horse Hollowpoint MKIII, 5" travel vpp type design
Mongoose Teocalli, 5" travel, same design principles as the GT iDrive
Kona Dawg, 5" travel, super reliable and proven '4 bar type' design
Kona Coiler, 6" travel, a bit more burly than the Dawg
they are all regular production bikes, there are plenty of '05 models knocking around at some killer prices
in the 'Boutique' end of the market check out the Yeti, Orange 5 or Patriot, or the incredible Cove Hustler, 5 1/2" travel trail rocket!!!
http://www.covebike.com/hustler.html

[SCHOEY]

SHOEY, the Norco Six you posted sounds like the '05 version. It might pay to have a look at the '06 versions as well as they're supposedly lighter than the '05s, and have a standard quick release rear end instead of the bolt thru.

I'd say the six one or six two would be within your budget.
http://www.norco.com/ts/pass/templates/bike_model.php?lang=en&loc=fs&sloc=am&tabloc=1&id=sixone&col=matteblack

Yes it is a '05 model and the shop that has it will do it for about 3g's. So that is why i posted the specs for the '05 model.

I know that the '06 is meant to be lighter, how much do you think they have shaved off it? Is it worth $500 for a few grams on an already lump of a bike?

[SCHOEY]

Specialized SX trail would be worth a look.

http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=12890&bikeTab=techspec

What's the sx trail worth?

[xero]

May be worth you having a look at the Brodie Awl, it seems to fit your bill too.

xero

[SCHOEY]

how much for the awl?

[gravelclimber]

SX Trail I around $4700
SX Trail II around $6000

[xero]

how much for the awl?

RRP is $3100 mark

[SCHOEY]

SX Trail I around $4700
SX Trail II around $6000

ouch!!!!!!!!!! that is getting out of my reach

nice bike though

[SCHOEY]

Isn't the brodie a little under spec'd compared to the 6, for around the same sought of $$$$$$$$$$$
I know it's probably more of a boutique style brand though i suppose.

[Elbo]

ouch!!!!!!!!!! that is getting out of my reach

nice bike though
If the SX Trail is out of reach for you, something very similar would be a Specialized Enduro... very nice bikes!
I think they start at around $3000 - $3500
Worth a look.

[Gripper]

05 Specialized Enduro Elite medium $4499 sale price $3199
http://www.vicmtb.com/store/cheap_bikes.php

http://www.vicmtb.com/store/05bikes/specialized/enduro_elite/05EnduroElite_l.jpg

[SCHOEY]

mmmmm, very interested in Enduro Elite.
Thanks heaps guys this is really helping

[Sov]

Take a look at the 06 Enduro too. $3549, but you might be able to bargain a bit. It's got better spec than the 05 Elite imho - the DHX air and AM SLs would be better than the 5th air and Manitous i'd say (quite a few people on US forums have been unhappy with the 5th air on the 05 Enduros)

http://www.vicmtb.com.au/store/06bikes/specialized/enduro/

[STS01]

Hey

I have a '97 STS and have been going throught the same routine recently- I was also looking for an all-mountain type bike and have ended up settling on a Giant Reign 2 upgraded with Pike 454's and 8" discs.

I posted a few specs and prices of similar bikes in this thread:
http://forums.farkin.net/showthread.php?t=44459&page=2

I ended up thinking that the Reign is the winner if you actually want to pedal a bit and do some more XC oriented stuff and one of the discounted Spec Enduro's (there is a demo '05 expert around too..) is probably the value bike if you are more DH / freeride oriented. The other option is the Mongoose Teocali super- it has a pretty good spec for the $$, I just didn't love it and I didn't think it pedalled as well as the reign...

[fatnold]

i'll vote for the enduro. i have a 2005 pro, 12 months old. i have replaced the shock 5 times (warranty) and have clean snapped the swing arm once (warranty). it still has my vote.
points of interest.
1. the 2006 has gone to a fox shock. should be more reliable than the 5th element that i have.
2. i have read reviews that suggest that the frame was almost designed around the fox36 fork and any of the lower models with alternative forks don't feel quite right. (too low up front)

i have jumped this bike, i have been off 5" to flat drops (not bad with the seat right up), i have raced xc, i have raced enduros, i have raced short course, i have riden a zillion trails in an agressive fashion, ie, i was in a bad mood ;-]

although i have had issues with the i vote for this bike for your application because i'm a big fat bastard and this 'relatively' light bike puts up with all of the above.

[SCHOEY]

Just got an email from the bloke that works at the shop with the '05 Norco 6. I wanted to know when the '06's are available, but Norco hasn't advised them yet.

So to get to the point he has offered the '05 to me for $2750, imo this is a bargain as they are $3500 retail. So i think i will snap it up. Now it's just a game of convincing the wife that i am worthy enough to spend the funds.

Thanks everyone for all the help, much appreciated.

[Gripper]

just quickly schoey, if you can get an issue of DIRT#52 july/aug 05, it has a great review on the s-works enduro ie. very similar xcept for the spec compared to the elite.

if i didn't already have enough bikes, i'd put the specialized in my garage without a 2nd thought

try to pass on that norco.......but anyways it's your $'s and personal relationship that are most important...right? :)

[pommiebiker]

I've got an '05 enduro, older style frame. Rides up and down like a demon, nice and light (14.5kg I think). The new models have slightly more travel but I got a good deal on the older one 6 months ago. No problems, absolutely love it, soaks it all up but I can still get up the hill again.

[SCHOEY]

[QUOTE=Gripper]try to pass on that norco.......QUOTE]

Why do you say this?

Did you know that the magazine Mountain Biking named the '05 Norco 2005 bike of the year.

They are using Specialised linkage design too.

I'm a bit put off by hearing Fatnold's trail tails on his enduro.