Chan gets death

[Hitman89]

The first death sentence for one of the Bali nine has been given
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/death-sentence-for-godfather/2006/02/14/1139679580306.html

Interesting to see how this is handled by Canberra

[THRILLHOUSE]

No sympathy for him. Knew exactly what he was doing and the consequences. Such idiots deserve to be caught

[SillyBoy]

He deserves it for being the "King Pin" for the Bali 9...

[Hitman89]

I Don't believe in the death penalty on principle but if they do get executed they have to get a nomination for a darwin award just like Van nguhen.

[nevot]

<opinion>

To re-open a kettle of fish that was delt with in a Schapelle Corby thread, NO matter what type of cock smoker you might be and what actions you may have committed, do you really deserve to be killed?

Does killing him serve any purpose other than to TRY and ensure that people sit up and take notice? Is there really and deterence when people fully understand that if you take drugs to certain counties you may die?

Will the Indonesian judicial system gain any insights and prevent further individuals from importing/exporting drugs from the country?

</opinion>

[RCOH]

I Don't believe in the death penalty on principle but if they do get executed they have to get a nomination for a darwin award just like Van nguhen.


Van nguyen was unlucky & careless ( & stupid) but probably would have gotten away with it if he hadn't put the 'stuff' in his backpack. Chan & Lawrence have allegedly made a successful heroin run at an earlier date, so they though they could have probably got away with it again. Shouldn't have pushed their luck.

I also don't really agree with death penalty, but I don't have a a lot of sympathy, especially for Chan Based purely on the footage I have sen of him in court & in prison).

[JDDVL.]

The thing i think is awfull is (not chan) but there just frickin kids,
One of them must be 19 or something but he looks 17 and now he is going to spend the rest of his life in a scummy prison.
And probally won't live to see 35 just really sad how someone can throw there life away so early.:(

[Dozer]

I copped a grilling for saying that van whoever asked for it when he got hanged and I'll probably cop it again but I still say sucked in. We're better off without that sought of shit in our world. They knew the risk and they still took it. No sympathy from me, the whole lot of them should get it.

[Hitman89]

One of the parents was on the tele the other night saying

"this could happen to anyone"

I'll tell you one thing it aint ever going to happen to me or anyone I know!
Most people aren't that Farkin Stupid!!

[bazza]

what if someone threatened to kill you or your family if you didnt do it?


are you than the stupid one?

[johnny]

Just like the Corby case, no one here actually knows what the hell went on. Yet many are so fast and loud to scream for blood. Disapointing, I think most of you are smarter than that.

[leitch]

i really disagree with the death penalty... no matter what a person has done, i do not believe they belive to be killed...

HOWEVER, i believe that we have to respet the judicial systems of other nations, the 9, Van Nguen, etc all knew the possible consequences of their actions, and i think that australians on a whole need to respect that other nations have other ideals/beliefs/rules on these things... i say this mainly because i just after Nguen of Schappelle (cant remember which) was sentenced, there were suggestions of boycotting Bali.. ie halting Australian tourism there, and in turn the money they gain from it... i can only imagine that the same sort of suggestions will arise now, and i think people need to realise that:
a) not all countries have the same beliefs and values and law systems, and
b) the citizens of a nation cannot be held accountable for the government-appointed laws they are ruled under

[Binaural]

Here is the orginal 24-page thread on the death penalty for Nguyen Tuong:

http://forums.farkin.net/showthread.php?t=43168

Here's the gist of what I was saying:



I don't think he deserves the death penalty.

The key thing to observe about drug crimes is that the dealers do NOT hold down innocent children and inject them with drugs. The users choose, of their own free will, to buy and inject/inhale/concentrate the drugs. People here are outraged by the harm this guy has done to "victims" of drugs should remember that these people have done it to themselves. In this sense, drugs are a crime of demand, like prostitution. It harms those involved pretty severely, but remember that these people are servicing a demand that would exist anyway.

That said, drug importation needs to be discouraged and I have no problem with pretty severe penalties being dished out to traffickers caught with large quantities. I have known a few heroin junkies, and the drug boils you down into a pretty horrible mess over time and dealers deserve little personal sympathy in my opinion. However, death is a bridge too far, and just because this guy violated the laws in another country does not excuse us from caring about another Australian citizen who did something stupid.

As an aside, it seems a pretty human thing to want to take drugs. Even in poor societies such as the aborigines of some communities in central Australia inhale petrol because they can't get much else.

[Dumbellina]

Bring on the guillotine, heads rolling is surely more dramatic than a firing squad.

Here one to join a couple of threads, have Dick Cheney go quail hunting on the day of execution. Hell he seems to shot people pretty good.

[bowzaa]

I copped a grilling for saying that van whoever asked for it when he got hanged and I'll probably cop it again but I still say sucked in. We're better off without that sought of shit in our world. They knew the risk and they still took it. No sympathy from me, the whole lot of them should get it.

Too right. Passes across a message to others as well to show that "We aren't going to take no bullshit from scum like you."
(Even though death is an easy way out for some of them. Something along the lines of making them smoke/shoot up/snort all the drugs they bring in til they overdose. Some of their own medicene...)
How can someone condemm a government for executing a drug trafficker when they got caught. And i'm sure all those complaining when all these people get hung or whatever would be among the first to condemm the government for letting the drugs get through if people overdose.
They knew the risks, they can cop it sweet.

Just like the Corby case, no one here actually knows what the hell went on. Yet many are so fast and loud to scream for blood. Disapointing, I think most of you are smarter than that.

Fair call johnny. It is wrong to make assumptions but most of us are commenting on what we do know or how it might have affected up and thus it affects our comments.
For anyone that might know more than the biased media coverage we get, would you care to enlighten us.

[haroboy182]

idiots..............

[NCR600]

How many people here would be screaming for the death penalty if it was THEIR son facing the firing squad?

The death penalty is an archaic, barbaric thing, and has no place in a civilized, democratic country.

[LordNikon]

Whether the death penalty is wrong or right is not the issue.

They committed the crime (or at least were convicted of it) and should be punished under local law. The local law happens to be the death penalty, not a damn thing we can do, or should do for that matter*, about it.


* We have no right to dictate to another country which of their laws are wrong or right. These crimes happened in their country, it's their call... end of discussion.


note: I do not believe in the death penalty either.

[berkyburger123]

Now I think he got what he deserved but it could have been done better. Life in a crappy 3x2 cell with a dirt floor and an insect infestation eating crap food has to be worse than a short drop and sudden stop.

However, if someone is dumb enough to buy and use drugs then they are as much as fault as the dealer. We don't say that when some idiot crashes cars its the governments fault for providing a road. (i s'pose thats a pretty bad analogy but anyway) peopel who take advantage of a resource are accepting the dangers tht come with it.

The death penalty is the right way to go but not quite perfect.

[rowanr]

How many people here would be screaming for the death penalty if it was THEIR son facing the firing squad?

The death penalty is an archaic, barbaric thing, and has no place in a civilized, democratic country.
becauase something has been around since the dawn of time doesn't mean it is barbaric and has no place. obviously since things like that are so old and have still survived then there is some point to them. i'm for the death penalty with things such as murder, sexual abuse and, mostly, paedophiles. i wish torture was still around for the filthy peds.
as for people saying the death penalty is better than jail- can you contemplate being on death row and knowing when and how you're going to die and basically just waiting for it. it would drive you insane.

[johnny]

obviously since things like that are so old and have still survived then there is some point to them. i'm for the death penalty with things such as murder, sexual abuse and, mostly, paedophiles.
Funnily enough, I'd say murder, rape and pedophillia have been around longer than death penalties.

Bit simple and maybe even backward to say "Dat dere 'angmans noose is what killed da slaves when day were lippy wit me granpaw, so it'll darn toot'n 'ang any nigger sons o' bitches dat tresspass on my white boy lands today!"......ok, that was a slight overstatement, but it is a little backward to say that just because something has history means it's the right way to go. If that were the case there would never be progression in society at all and witches would still be burned at the stake and heathens and heretics with them.

Edit: do you think that pedaphillia is some sort of evil that people choose to be? Watch the movie "The Woodsman" with Kevin Bacon. IT's an interesting take on how we treat the socialy devious in society and makes the point that seeing it as evil and the people as predators is probably the most useless way to see the behaviour if you actually want to reduce or cease it altogether.

Please don't call this bleeding heart, it's scientific and seeks to END the behaviour, not just punish it AFTER it has already happened...agan and again and again and again.......

[Hitman89]

what if someone threatened to kill you or your family if you didnt do it?


are you than the stupid one?

Heard of self defence??, Murder those son's o bitches and get off with a good lawyer.

Thats how Mick Gatto got off his murder charge in Melbourne

[Dumbellina]

Heard of self defensive??,

No. But self defence I have heard off. BTW there are big legal hurdles to relying on that defence - such as you being in imminent danger of death or serious injury and your only form of defence was to kill the other person. Pretty hard to prove both.

[wombat]

Whether the death penalty is wrong or right is not the issue.

They committed the crime (or at least were convicted of it) and should be punished under local law. The local law happens to be the death penalty, not a damn thing we can do, or should do for that matter*, about it.


* We have no right to dictate to another country which of their laws are wrong or right. These crimes happened in their country, it's their call... end of discussion.


note: I do not believe in the death penalty either.
Are you maybe confusing the "law" with the "penalty"? I don't think anyone is really trying to argue the law itself, but rather putting forward the idea that the death penalty in general is an inneffective and overly harsh punishment.

I think that the international community should have every right to scrutinize something like the death penalty; torture is something that is condemned, so why should we not be able to speak out against capital punishment?

[cokeonspecialtwodollars]

In the end everyone is entitled to their own opinion and it is the collective weight of different opinions that enables society to change and move forward.

Johnny is spot on, the only information most of us have is forth hand biased media opinion who are just out for ratings. None of us were there when it happened so how can we form any real judgment.

Could you imagine however being in a position as a judge to tell someone your guilty by the way the law says now you must die.

[|Matt|]

i really disagree with the death penalty... no matter what a person has done, i do not believe they belive to be killed...

I agree with Leitch on a certain level. Drugs is a voluntary thing. People choose to do drugs. The dealer doesn't make them buy it. They put it up for grabs is all. They do NOT deserve to be killed. The damage done to the people who are druggies is their own fault.

Its the same as cigarettes. People know the dangers and yet still do it, but are the head of "Peter Jackson", "Marlboro" and "Long Beach" rotting in jail or getting the death penalty? They're doing the same thing Drug dealers are. It just takes less cigarrettes to kill a person than drugs such as cocaine (were the Bali 9 smuggling Coke?...i dont know?) but it is still killing them, is giving them a hard time breathing and doing other physical activities. I think thats just as bad. It may be letting them live longer...but at what price?

For christs sake, if their families were going to be killed, what do the judges expect they were going to do. "sorry mum, sorry dad, i dont want you to die but i could risk getting caught with the drugs" and just let their families get capped in the head one at a time!? Fuck some of the worlds justice systems are fucking stupid. I for one am not going to be going to Indonesia for a very long time....even if i was paid to...

Life in jail is also a bit much. If the Bali 9 are in fact telling the truth, i dont think they should get any sentence. The only thing that should legally be done, is give them new names and locations so the dealer who made them smuggle the drugs come after them asking "where my money" and a search to find the people behind the threats of murdering their families and throw THEM in the slammer and lock away the key for having innocent people do their dirty work.


The only people who deserve to be killed are those who, DIRECTLY severely harm a person such as the 9/11 bombers. They deserve to be slaughtered slowly and very very painfully for everything they did to the people who died in the Twin Towers and their families and friends...

Just my beliefs...

[NCR600]

The only people who deserve to be killed are those who, DIRECTLY severely harm a person such as the 9/11 bombers. They deserve to be slaughtered slowly and very very painfully for everything they did to the people who died in the Twin Towers and their families and friends...

Just my beliefs...

No one deserves to be killed. As far as I'm concerned the only time killing is justified is in a 'me or him' situation where your life is directly threatened, or on the battlefield (ok there are probably other times too, but most would be variations on thos themes)

You have to remember, that while people such as the 9/11 bombers, or say, Martin Bryant, are perpetrators of barbaric acts, THEY are the barbarians, not US (society).

To have state sanctioned killing on anything other than a war-footing or self defensive level is to legitimise killing.

[RuDeZ]

I've been thinking, whats worse death, or the absence of life.

Sure, a death penalty seems harsh, personally i find life inprison in a bali jail harsher. If you put yourself in those shoes, the thought of never leaving a small space, with people who you can't truly communicate with, is worse than death. To a person who has spent their life in one of these jails, death (i'm only assuming) would be a release.

And as someone has said, the rest of the nine with the life inprisonment will die in the prison, so logically is there any difference other than the 35-60 years of waiting to die?

[Hitman89]

I've been thinking, whats worse death, or the absence of life.

Sure, a death penalty seems harsh, personally i find life inprison in a bali jail harsher. If you put yourself in those shoes, the thought of never leaving a small space, with people who you can't truly communicate with, is worse than death. To a person who has spent their life in one of these jails, death (i'm only assuming) would be a release.

And as someone has said, the rest of the nine with the life inprisonment will die in the prison, so logically is there any difference other than the 35-60 years of waiting to die?


As it is here life doesn't mean life, You can use good behaviour and bribes to get out early. I reckon they should take the penalty and start working on an early release. Lets face it they deserve to spend some time in gaol and an appeal is not going to overturn the verdict.

20 years or life I don't see much of a difference I sooner be dead.

I reckon that they should lock you in a room with a loaded pistol and let you do it yourself. At least that way your not going to botch it.

[RuDeZ]

Yeah, here and many other nations give the sentence life with the chance of parol in say 20 years, but i think in bali when they say life, i think they mean life.
I'm not 100% sure on this but i think that's the way it goes.

[Hitman89]

There was a guy in the paper that got a life sentence in Indonesia but got out after 11 years.

Check this out for life in a bali gaol.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/bali-jail-life-v-aussie-prison-time/2006/02/17/1140064234084.html

[|Matt|]

with the chance of parol in say 20 years, but i think in bali when they say life, i think they mean life
Its not parol, its a retrial.

But in Indonesia and other countries...life...means life..

[RuDeZ]

yeah thats what i meant. :)

[JasO]

Edit: do you think that pedaphillia is some sort of evil that people choose to be? Watch the movie "The Woodsman" with Kevin Bacon. IT's an interesting take on how we treat the socialy devious in society and makes the point that seeing it as evil and the people as predators is probably the most useless way to see the behaviour if you actually want to reduce or cease it altogether.


Call me a heartless bastard, but if I had a daughter or son, and I found out that they were sexually abused by someone older than them I don’t think I would be able to just kick along with it or blame it on society or anything of that sort. I know that life in jail for murderers, rapists, pedophiles etc, don’t get treated very nicely, and in my opinion they shouldn’t be treated very well at all. Most of these people end up being put into ‘protection’ due to the risk of begin attacked by other inmates for their crimes. If a pedophile situation ever happened to any members of my family I would find it hart to let the police deal with it, these people are messing with your family, and family is the most important thing in the world. I think in some circumstances justice can be made by a single person in a matter of hours compared to the judicial system taking ten or so years to inflict the same amount of justice.

I think the death penalty usually comes into place by the prison system only when the prisoner is facing several life sentences, basically they would be living out the rest of their life in jail. So it is easier and cheaper for the government to give them an injection and put them to sleep rather than pay for their food each and every day and provide a cell for them when the prison systems are becoming increasingly overcrowded.

Just my thoughts...

[toodles]

Whether the death penalty is wrong or right is not the issue.

They committed the crime (or at least were convicted of it) and should be punished under local law. The local law happens to be the death penalty, not a damn thing we can do, or should do for that matter*, about it.


* We have no right to dictate to another country which of their laws are wrong or right. These crimes happened in their country, it's their call... end of discussion.


note: I do not believe in the death penalty either.

No one deserves to be killed. As far as I'm concerned the only time killing is justified is in a 'me or him' situation where your life is directly threatened, or on the battlefield (ok there are probably other times too, but most would be variations on thos themes)

You have to remember, that while people such as the 9/11 bombers, or say, Martin Bryant, are perpetrators of barbaric acts, THEY are the barbarians, not US (society).

To have state sanctioned killing on anything other than a war-footing or self defensive level is to legitimise killing.


I agree with both of these arguments. The guy is dirt - I have no love for drug-dealers but death is an extraordinary sentence for someone who has never killed another human being.

The death penalty should be made redundant IMO due to a number of reasons. Ethically, it is barbaric to have a mandatory penalty of death for ANYTHING. Events leading up to, and circumstances surround crimes need to be given greater consideration in every law court I know of. Criminals deserves harsh and unforgiving justice but they also deserve a punishment in proportion to their crime. Sneaking a gun into a courtroom and shooting dead a pedophile who has raped and killed many children, including theoretically the murderer's own kin, will earn the shooter a compulsory death sentence in many countries. It is a crime yes - but a justified crime by many people's standards.

Another, less empathetic argument against the death penalty is that these people can potential be more useful to humanity in other ways. If their lives are forfeit, then why dispense of them in such a way as to make them useless and unable effectively repay their debt to society. Their organs could be stripped, or their lives be devoted to research. Barbaric - yes. But efficient also. Why waste what could prolong or enhance the lives of many others?

Another consideration is the usefullness of these individuals in acertaining intelligence on criminal organisations and lending an insight into the compulsions, motivations and mindsets that motivate the most heinous and depraved of crimes. Executing a serial killer or multiple murderer may grant the public a temporary sense of closure but it also deprives law enforcement agencies of the profiling data that could potentially contribute to saving many, many lives in the future. A dead murderer contributes very little information to a criminal psychiatrist - the very people who's task it is to provide the law enforcement agencies with a the streamlined profiles which narrow suspect fields and have accelarated the apprehension rates of some of the nastiest criminals the world has known.