Guns at Skateparks

[C*RISSO]

I dont know how many people this is happened to but today i was at the skate park with a mate and 3 metro pricks came over. after seeing one pass a gun to another the question came up if we should leave. To bad they happened to sit next to a bag with my mates car keys. My mate was called over and to cut the story short, we were threatened to be shot if we didnt hand over our stuff and if we ran they would also shoot us.

My mate questioned him after all we had done nothing wrong. Not beeing racist the leabanies boy said your country treats me like shit so that is why i do this. I PERSONALLY HAVE NEVER ROBBED SOMEONE. This is the fourth time i have been apart of a fuked up situation like this. When i was 10,15,17 and now 20. one time at the local dirt jumps my 13 year old mate had two 12 inch blade mashetes held to his throat and bike stolen.

This is the second time i have seen comeone with a gun at this one particular skatepark.

WARNING TO ALL: DONT TRUST ANYONE, when i was 15 and had my bike stolen and ex primary school friend was involved and the police still couldnt press charges because they werent the ones grabbing my helmet pulling me over my handlebars.

this is not a winge but is to show younger people to be smart and to be aware of who is around you at skate parks etc

EDIT: yesterday all that was stolen was a mobile phone. Managed to keep the bag, and the cops are investigating. They consider it a big deal because our lives were threatened. I think i might know were one hangs out so going to look into that.

With the guys that put mashetes to my friends throat we 15 of us thwe next day road around the area it happened and found one of the guys and chased him with a baseball bat, he dropped the bike and ran. what a dumb ass. It was a custom federal worth about $2000 we got back.

[bazza]

so did the car get stolen or did they just take the bag or what? but that really freakin sucks. i woulda taken my chances grabbed the bag and run like shit. actually i would have no idea what to do and would probably be messed up in the head for a while after it.

[fattyandthepiemakers]

Shit man. Did you press charges or was he cool after you talked to him? WTF would somebody attack some innocent random if he has done nothing wrong, but his country has? Wouldn't he be mad at himself for not leaving Australia because he felt discriminated against? It doesn't make sense. It's just like saying "I don't like you so I'm going to shoot you because you live in Australia and I feel threatened by that, I live here BUT it's OK for me because I am the victim." WTF? :mad:

[lotec]

and he wonders why the country treats him like shit, because thats what he is, hes probably too dumb to know how to shoot the gun anyway, ive had a knife pulled on me twice before, and both times they had their hand wrapped around the blade, so if they stabbed me their hand slides along the blade and cuts their fingers off, both times i took my chances and didnt get stabbed, my bet is this worthless pile of shit wouldnt have had the balls or the mental capacity to shoot you, he just feels real big "look at me bro, fulli sik gun"
longest sentance ever cbf to fix it, going to bed.

[kizza]

Holy crap! Thats shocking. Im assuming nothing happened to any of you guys, like physically. Did they steal much? Bloody bastards. See this is the kind of thing that will spark a reaction from the "aussies" and then so forth and so on. "Why cant we all just learn to get along", seriously. What absolute assholes. Well dont worry they'll get theres, in their next life they'll come back as fly and be eating shit all day. suckers.

[Arete]

I'm a bit older now and have a few tats/piercings, which is generally enough for the fooly sik bros to keep their distance. Normally all I get is tough talk from the sidelines. It's funny cause I'm skinny and fairly useless at fighting.

I had a knife pulled on me once at a skatepark, guy trying you jack my bike. I just rode off. Usually I end up in confrontations at our local park with non locals giving attitude to the younger local kids. I don't take kindly to some punk on his P's rocking up and pushing around a 12 year old in his local playground.

But guns? fuck. I wouldn't be fucking around if I saw a gun involved. My bike's probably worth getting punched over, but not shot.

[MTBWANNABE]

But guns? fuck. I wouldn't be fucking around if I saw a gun involved. My bike's probably worth getting punched over, but not shot.
Agree'd.

We live in a fairly fucked up world. :(

Did they take the car or what?

[looseunit]

That is fucked up, what skate park did it happen at?

What did the police do? I have had met several people that have there bike stolen at knife point in Adelaide and the police have done very little, apart from take details and have not always been prompt in getting to the crime scene, so there is no chance of catching anyone, this just shits me. I have even had frineds at work have had syringes pull on them trying to stop shop lifters and yet again it takes the police 10min to turn up and the police station is less 200m away.

[wtr]

I don't know whether to sympathise with them or to pump my fist at them..

Your life worths more than your current belongings, there's always a tomorrow.

[hubbie]

geez! I dont think i'd ever have a problem like that near where i live, let alone see it happen.

Best wishes for the future. hope you stay safe and the prick gets what's coming

[Tomas]

your country treats me like shit


Just a product of his surroundings mate. That is seriously unbelieveable. Id imagine you made a ull police report and so forth? I wonder how well the country treats him when he's serving 10 years for armed robbery.

[Dozer]

your country treats me like shit

So what the fuck are you doing here using the clean air that we breathe? What a dumb, useless idiot. It is no wonder these type of people get themselves a stupid haircut, start a fight and then run away scared. Fuck off if you don't want to be here, we don't want to see you stupid mugs.
I would hate to be in a situation like this one, I'm not sure what I would do because the wankers are a bit special in the head. I hope these types of things don't deter kids from riding their local.

[wtr]

geez! I dont think i'd ever have a problem like that near where i live, let alone see it happen.I thought you were living in the ghetto..:p

[TonyG]

C*RISSO,

Holly shit burgers!
As nice as it would be to stand up to these guys, as there is no doubt they would be as weak as water if you did. There is the chance they may shoot someone to save face in a situation like that. Not worth the risk.
I dont want to hijack your thread, but I had a simillar thing happen once when i was out to dinner with an old flame. This car kept following us around, and I could see it was a full car full of lebs. Anyway the inevitable happened and they started making rude remarks. When they drove off my girl wanted to go home because she was a bit shaken up, but I made out I wasnt scared and said lets keep walking as we where only about 200m from the restaurant.
As we got to the next intersection they where waiting for us again, but this time not saying anything. So I told my gf to wait where she was and walked up to the door of the car and told the guy driving to get out if he was so tuff. Anyway the back window comes down and this guy shoves a pistol straight into my face. Needless to say I took a massive dump in my shorts and just stood there in shock. Luckily for me they all just laughed at me and drove off.
That moment has stayed with me since that day, which was about 6 years ago. I still remember it like it was yesterday.
One thing I say to myself for comfort is that these guys are probably in gaol right now, and very angry people. Where as I'm not and I'm very happy with my life. So who is the biggest loser in the long run, it will always be the criminals.
All I can say to you C*RISSO is that these people will always use the "system" to excuse their behaviour, and there is nothing we can do about other than sit back and watch them self destruct. Sooner or later the law will catch up withy them and send them to gaol, where they belong.

[hubbie]

I thought you were living in the ghetto..:p

sorry everybody. I lied. I don't really live in the ghetto

[crabapple hitz]

One thing I say to myself for comfort is that these guys are probably in gaol right now, and very angry people. Where as I'm not and I'm very happy with my life. So who is the biggest loser in the long run, it will always be the criminals.
All I can say to you C*RISSO is that these people will always use the "system" to excuse their behaviour, and there is nothing we can do about other than sit back and watch them self destruct. Sooner or later the law will catch up withy them and send them to gaol, where they belong.

I agree, You did the right thing by not antagonising the situation. Nothing is worth being shot over.
Karma has a funny way of dealing with losers like this. I guarantee you will go on to live a happier, better and more successful life than these goons who will end up in jail sooner or later or dead in an alley after pulling a gun on the wrong person.

These guys are really fucking up any opportunities for young law abiding Lebanese males to get ahead. A mate of mine from work is Lebbo and he says his son is a straight A student and has never hurt a fly but cannot get a decent job because everyone looks at him like he's a cretin.

[robracer]

C*RISSO,

Anyway the back window comes down and this guy shoves a pistol straight into my face. Needless to say I took a massive dump in my shorts and just stood there in shock

Risso sorry to hear about the hold up mate.
Tony this was the exact feeling T had when the bank I was in was held up & there was me & another guy I happend to know being served by the tellers, appart from us the place was empty when the door opened & 4 hoods come in packing pistols 1 jumps the counter screens shoot up & the door gets opened for two to go out the back leaving me & this other dude poopin our dacks with hood boy wavin & yelling at us to keep down. This is the scariest shit anyone can force on you ....that + the fact that the screens were up & I could hear the manager getting pistol wipped...... i could have died that day! :(
Situations like this really make you think hard about life.

[ferg]

see the lebs go and do stupid shit like this but will be the first to complain if it had happened to them, and wonder why the cronulla riots start. i think it is a joke that they think they can just random point a gun at someone cause they said our country treats em like shit

[Refreshinglygood]

Just a product of his surroundings mate. That is seriously unbelieveable. Id imagine you made a ull police report and so forth? I wonder how well the country treats him when he's serving 10 years for armed robbery.


well said, the only stand we need to make is take a photo with our mobies, and go to the coppers.

Man I'm glad I live in Newcastle. Got all the city mod cons, but don't have to deal with this crap.

Although I did have a couple of kids ask me for my bike, I laughed and told them to try to take it, they where a couple of weedy 15 year olds, and I'm carrying 105 kilos. Did give me a bit of a fright though.

[Refreshinglygood]

of course unless they take the phone too.

[Refreshinglygood]

see the lebs go and do stupid shit like this but will be the first to complain if it had happened to them, and wonder why the cronulla riots start. i think it is a joke that they think they can just random point a gun at someone cause they said our country treats em like shit

Nice work Ferg, way to be an ignorant fool. It's a bit hard to tell if a minority is actually being mistreated unless you are actually part of that minority, I am not a Leb, I couldn't tell you if they are mistreated, I don't even know any lebs.

I'm not suggesting that it is right to take this course of action at all, i think it is the lowest form of stupidity, however when people are pushed down, and disadvantaged, strange things happen.

things are generally not as simmple as how you suggest Ferg.

I used to work for Juvenile Justice, and I tell you now, there are more Whities inside for crimes of violence than others

[bigsteve]

I'm no racist, there are plenty more anglos out there causing more greif than these "Lebo" types

I've had quite a few run ins in my time (I'm 26 about 6'7) and its usually been because i'm the biggest bloke in the bar & rarely with a person of non-australian ethnicity. I've had knives pulled on me but never a gun, usually its because the oponent cannot "Handle Themselves" that they resort to carrying a weapon.

Don't dis on these guys because they may be "Lebs" dis on them because they are cowards.

[Constable Care]

I know lebs and some of my best mates are lebanese aswell, but it does seem to me that the majority of them are thugs. On saturday night a guy in my year at school had a party of about 30 people, two 15 year old lebanses kids came into it and were quickly shown the door as no one knew them, about 45min later about 50 lebanese guys all around the age of 26 came and proceeded to trash this guys house, tearing down fences smashing windows with crowbars throwing things at party guests, his house was smashed. On this same night, one of my friends was walking down the street passed a group of lebanese and said "hey mate" in a completely non-threatening manner, this guy in question just happened to be probably the nicest guy i know and the mob of lebanses then beat him up and stole his phone and wallet. While this was happening we threw a party for a friend of mine who was joining the Army and was going away the next week. There was turmoil at this party but it was sorted out pretty quickly. One of the guys at the party who wasnt really associated with my friend but was in his year at school made some calls and about 20 minutes later 15 lebanese guys all aroun 18-19 ages jumped the fence punched one of our other friends in the head, kicked the crap through him and then ran out into the street. My friend was later sent home in an ambulance after the police were called.

I dont want to be prejudice against them as some of them are my mates but from my personal experiences a majority of lebanese Teens and young adults seem to be causing problems. I hope that i have just had bad experiences with them as i know some of them to be the nicest people ive met, but it does seem to be the other way round.

Constable Care

[Refreshinglygood]

Well said CC. You make a very good point, it reads well, not rascist, just pointing out your experince. It is important to explain experince, but it isn't valid to suggest that a few experinces make it possible to label an entire population.

I have a mate that was flogged in George St by three kids of ethnic appearance. He ended up crawling around on the ground picking his teeth up.

I spent 6 years in the US, i spent most of the time in Northern California. While there i was often treated very badly simply because I was Asutralian. many of the locals that i worked with assumed that I was uneducated, and stupid.

I must say it is an interesting experince being mistreated by a group of people because fo where you are from.

[entombed]

Although if you line up a greek and italian and a lebanese, i doubt that most of us would guess the correct nationality if they were all wearing black clothes.

Unless they said they were Lebs, which they didnt (confirmed by the other person there last night) we cant go making judgements liek that Ferg.

I agree its fucked up, but i doubt very much it was a real gun anyways. After speaking with the victims last night in person and on the phone, they were both unsure it was real, and from the description I was given it sounded like a BB pistol. Its just sad to here that some people feel they need to act like this so they can brag to their mates on how tuff they were and the expensive of others.

Were was Robbo when you needed him!!!!!!!!

[TonyG]

I dont think this is a racial issue. I think it is a criminal issue.
My problem is people in society who think that shoving a gun in someones face has no impact on that person.
It's not like I go to bed sucking my thumb, but it did have an impact on me at the time. I think the worst thing is that there is nothing that you can do about it. No matter how tuff you think you are, you are pretty helpless against a gun. I was so scared I didnt even get the guys number plate as he drove off, I thought about it just as he went around the next corner.
What I would like to see is violent crime, knife and gun or savage gang beatings get the sentances they deserve. What that is I'm not sure, but when I hear of people gettign 18 mths for armed robbery, this is an insult to the rest of society. We deserve the right to be able to walk the streets without fear of being attacked, and we should not have to lock our houses up like Fort Knox, even when we are home!
These people should be dealt with by the courts with the contempt they deserve. The punishment for crimes is a representation of how society views a crime, and if continual lenient sentences are handed down to people because they are victims of the "system", then these people and other potentially violent criminals will never know of there consequences.

GET OFF YOUR SOAP BOX .. okay enough said.

[Refreshinglygood]

I agree, it really isn't a racial issue, but it was made a racial issue when some decided to name a race.

[TonyG]

Yes, well that was me. I was trying to paint a picture of the moment rather than turn the thread toward a race related issue.
I completely agree with many of these comments. I think it is naive not to notice a corrolation between certain races and violent crime, but they certainly don't have a monopoly on it either. There are no racial demographics in Australia that can boast a crime free race.
The dangerous thing with pointing out these sort of statistics, is that as discussed earlier that it can effect the chances of some young people who are trying to make a proper go of there life. On the other hand if you dont address the problem it wont go away. ???????????????

[bulllet]

I have been beaten up a fair few times now, and it sucks.

The first point I would like to make is that when i have been beaten up, it has been from Australian's and Lebanese. Now I pointing the finger at one of these groups is stupid. It does not matter weather these people are lebanese or Australian the fact is that thugs are thugs, and always will be.

Walking through hornsby station one night I was followed by a group of 4 white, australian, bogan males that followed me until they saw their chance, and I got the shit kicked outa me. What was their problem with me? nothing...they just wanted another person to mess up.

Another time I was walking home from a party with 2 mates when we were jumped by 2 car loads of lebanese blokes now naturally we ran for abit but the fact they were in cars made it a pointless battle. We got beaten up that night fairly well to.

These are 2 examples of different cultures doing the same stupid thing, why do they bother? Noone can really say. The fact is that it doesn't matter what colour skin they have if they want to bash someone then they will do it, regardless.

On a leaving note, 9/10 times these people will not recognise your face again, so don't become afraid to go back out and have fun etc etc...and i can guarantee 10/10 times you will remeber the face of the bloke who hits you first.

These people are only powerful in numbers, so if you see a group of sus looking dudes, steer clear there is no point in putting yourself in harms way.

peace out.

[big_pete]

Some crazy stories guys, I've got 2 stories not that bad

1st. Drunk as nuts one night left a party decided I'd walk home a good 40 min walk home while walking down a dark street,I start hearing foot steps thought they were mine but I looked back and noticed 4 Tongan boys all around my size and bigger scared shitless. I start jogging look back and so are they, I ended up being tripped over punched a few times nothing stolen because I was trying to scream HELP, hoping people would come out of there houses and scare them away, they ended up bolting, nothing stolen. I then rolled over into the gutter and thought fuck I could of died they would of had a knive or something dangerous.

2nd. A mate of mine only 16 avarage size, sitting at a Kebab shop at 2 at night on his mobile ( DUMB thing to do ) bunch of lebs ask him for his phone he bolted then they got in their cars chased him he said it took him a good 30 mins getting home he had to jump so many fences and hide. He ended up getting home safe, lucky story because he said the guys were like 20+ and 2 car loads of them

Its crazy how far people will go just for a phone or a wallet and seriously never walk home from a party by yourself, is it worth the chance of some thugs chasing you? Beating you up? Stealing whatever valuables you have on you?
No not all.. be smart ring a taxi ask a designated driver to take you home. :)

[Cletus]

Nice work Ferg, way to be an ignorant fool. It's a bit hard to tell if a minority is actually being mistreated unless you are actually part of that minority, I am not a Leb, I couldn't tell you if they are mistreated, I don't even know any lebs.

I'm not suggesting that it is right to take this course of action at all, i think it is the lowest form of stupidity, however when people are pushed down, and disadvantaged, strange things happen.

things are generally not as simmple as how you suggest Ferg.

I used to work for Juvenile Justice, and I tell you now, there are more Whities inside for crimes of violence than others


im sorry refreashinlygood, i really dont see how ferg is showing any ignorance with what he said, especialy as you've just said you dont even know any lebs.
i've been working for lebs for over three years now and i do have to say that they definatly do live up to there reputation, and not just the ones i work with but the loads of familiy and freinds that are constantly here hanging out and usually causing trouble.
as countable care has said he knows some lebs that are his good friends and i can understand that but he also says the majority he knows are thugs and i really do see that alot, honestly i have never meet a good one and would be surprised if i ever did

[D2.]

Every culture has its criminal element - it's just human nature. Unfortunately, some of these thugs resort to a cop out like 'your country treats me like crap so I need to resort to violence'. Everyone knows that thats a load of bs. Chances are this guys own country would treat him like crap cos he's a thug. And he'd have some other lame excuse all lined up to justify his behaviour.

In future, if you see someone handling a gun - don't hang around. Keep your keys and wallet on you and get out as fast as you can. Better to lose your bag n stuff than end up dead.

[NCR600]

im sorry refreashinlygood, i really dont see how ferg is showing any ignorance with what he said, especialy as you've just said you dont even know any lebs.
i've been working for lebs for over three years now and i do have to say that they definatly do live up to there reputation, and not just the ones i work with but the loads of familiy and freinds that are constantly here hanging out and usually causing trouble.
as countable care has said he knows some lebs that are his good friends and i can understand that but he also says the majority he knows are thugs and i really do see that alot, honestly i have never meet a good one and would be surprised if i ever did

A good mate of mine has been a cop for 10 years, and he claims that if all the Lebanese disappeared tomorrow, the crime rate in Sydney would fall 80%.

You can't really call him racist, his wife is Lebanese. (her family are lovely by the way, and make the best falafels, tabouli & kibbeh!)

There is definately a problem with racially based crime gangs, but every time the police have tried to quantify it, or do a study on it, the powers that be have canned the idea as being racist.

[miko]

Which park?

Being an Adelaide boy, I'd really like to know where to be careful/avoid.

Cheers

[entombed]

Which park?

Being an Adelaide boy, I'd really like to know where to be careful/avoid.

Cheers

Paradise......

[Refreshinglygood]

im sorry refreashinlygood, i really dont see how ferg is showing any ignorance with what he said, especialy as you've just said you dont even know any lebs.
i've been working for lebs for over three years now and i do have to say that they definatly do live up to there reputation, and not just the ones i work with but the loads of familiy and freinds that are constantly here hanging out and usually causing trouble.
as countable care has said he knows some lebs that are his good friends and i can understand that but he also says the majority he knows are thugs and i really do see that alot, honestly i have never meet a good one and would be surprised if i ever did

I got nothing for that oz. Thats great that you work with lebs, and obviously that puts you in the best possible place to say that they live up to their reputation, How many do you work with Oz?

1000, 2000, 10000?


maybe you should be traveling in different circles oz. If I lived in a area that had a bunch of idiots beating me up, and stealing my stuff all the time, I suppose I would seriously think about moving, or gettting another job

[Refreshinglygood]

A good mate of mine has been a cop for 10 years, and he claims that if all the Lebanese disappeared tomorrow, the crime rate in Sydney would fall 80%.

You can't really call him racist, his wife is Lebanese. (her family are lovely by the way, and make the best falafels, tabouli & kibbeh!)

There is definately a problem with racially based crime gangs, but every time the police have tried to quantify it, or do a study on it, the powers that be have canned the idea as being racist.


Ok then, I'll bite, Cops obviously have the best reputation don't they, they are all honest!.

Why the hell would the police do research anyway, this would be a biast study. The group that does research should not be attached to the issue.

Hmm, the police doing studies on crime rates, that sounds like it could be free of bias.

[juzzo]

thats very disturbing, and i thought our skateparks were bad

[S_M_I_D_D_Y]

Man I'm glad I live in Newcastle. Got all the city mod cons, but don't have to deal with this crap.

Dont be so sure about that.....

[Refreshinglygood]

well at least I havent, knock on wood

[Hitman89]

Ok then, I'll bite, Cops obviously have the best reputation don't they, they are all honest!.

Why the hell would the police do research anyway, this would be a biast study. The group that does research should not be attached to the issue.

Hmm, the police doing studies on crime rates, that sounds like it could be free of bias.

Sounds like your preaching tolerance of Lebs on the one hand and generalising police on the other, seem hypocritical to me.

#shakes head in disgust#

[Refreshinglygood]

Sounds like your preaching tolerance of Lebs on the one hand and generalising police on the other, seem hypocritical to me.

#shakes head in disgust#



Just being sarcastic hitman,

anyway, it's not that I'm preaching tolerance of lebs as you say, but for an understanding that we probably don't understand all the issues. Any moron can spout hate for others, that is one sure fire way to spark more hate, which will spark more violence, which will spark more hate etc.

I remember talking to my old man about similar issues years ago when there was an influx of Vietnamese imagrants, he also remembered similar problems when there was an influx of greek, and italians, chinese, and who can forget what the anglo's did to the locals when they first moved in.

Things are never as simple as saying it is "THEIR" fault, and "THEY" should pull "THEIR" heads in

[Cletus]

hahaha, yeah refreashinglygood, somtimes it does feel like theres 10,000 of them there:rolleyes:.
its amazing how many of them you see hangin out and doing shady stuff where i work. i seem to always have to keep one eye to the back of my head so i can see whats going down, and the worst thing is when you walk up to them and there speaking english and when they see you comming they always start speaking arabic, so theres obviously somthing there going on about that they dont want you to know about.
if i told you some of the things that ive seen happen there and some of the things they say about aussies you would have the same opinion i do of them unfortunatly.
and by the way i am looking for a new job, i want out of panel beating and start somthing new;)

[TonyG]

Refreshinglygood,
I have to say I completely disagree here. I hate racism. It was me who mentioned it was lebs who shoved a gun in my face. Now this never means anything unless you know the person involved, but I have friends who are lebanese, I have work collegues who are Lebanese and I have had a girlfriend who was Lebanese. The bigger picture here isnt that I generalised a race by naming them as the perpetrators of the crime, but that some son-of-a-bitch shoved a friggin gun about 2 friggin inches from my nose, and thought that was pretty god damn funny!! I wasnt out looking for trouble. I was going to dinner with my girlfriend, and I should be able to do this with out someone shoving a gun in my face for a laugh with his friends. The fact that they where lebs, or people of middle eastern apperance is simply a fact not a racial generalisation.
I think you should stop trying to be the "voice of reason" and look at what is the issue here, violence and how it effects people.

[Topple's]

As a teacher i see what the next generation are like IN ONE AREA. Now tehnically i'm not supposed to comment on some things so i'll have to limit whats here.
At our school there is a variety of races and cultures. It is my experience that over the school population there is no distinct difference between the gang style / violent acts of differing groups. The factor that seems to hve the most effect is the curfew that parents set for their children. It seem the later the curfew the more negative activity some get caught up in.

On living in Newy with all the mod cons, no problems, i reckon we are a lot better than many other places, however a few mates have been badly bashed and robbed while walking from one pub to another, including a mate (who is mostly blind) who was walking 400m to a taxi stand when he got jumped by a group.

Lastly sympathy goes out to all those who have been threatened, i'd like to think that i'd be tough in a situation like that but in reality i cant fight and would probably give them whatever they wanted (the smart choice) plus extra.

[ruckes]

i think some times u have to hear both sides of the story before u can make a decision.
i thing generalizing is one thing that people do to make it easier for them selfs to dislike a nationality my self have been known to do it for which i am not very proud. u can get as bad or Evan worse Australians if your in the right area

[Superman]

u can get as bad or Evan worse Australians if your in the right area

got something against people called Evan?

[bowzaa]

Don't dis on these guys because they may be "Lebs" dis on them because they are cowards.

True that.
Seems strange that everyone brings up how it's because of their ethnicity and then claims "no, i'm not racist". Hypocrits.
Can you say you've never seen an Australian pull a knife or weapon?

In the end, 99% of guys that carry weapons don't have the balls to use them in cold blood. That said, no point trying if their part of the 1% that would.

[Refreshinglygood]

Refreshinglygood,
I The fact that they where lebs, or people of middle eastern apperance is simply a fact not a racial generalisation.
I think you should stop trying to be the "voice of reason" and look at what is the issue here, violence and how it effects people.


I'm not trying to be the voice of reason, just expressing an opinion. I accept that others have different points of view, that is what is good about this country, however a point of view isn't worth crap unless you can test it against others.

On your other point, you know for sure that they where lebs?. Unless you saw something that identifies them as "lebs" you are indeed generalizing. That to me is offensive,


I agree with you on the point about the violence stuff, I have been bashed as well, so I identify with the problem, I just think that you are contributing to the racial profiling issue that this country is suffering from at the moment.


I was bashed by a gang of asians, they took my ipod, watch and wallet, and left me bleeding in the gutter. I didn't go around saying that it was a bunch of Chinese guys, I can't prove that, but they where asian.

If you are sure that these clowns where of middle east decent, say that, just don't say that they are a member of a specific culture if you don't know that that is the case.

[Refreshinglygood]

[QUOTE=Topple's
On living in Newy with all the mod cons, no problems, i reckon we are a lot better than many other places, however a few mates have been badly bashed and robbed while walking from one pub to another, including a mate (who is mostly blind) who was walking 400m to a taxi stand when he got jumped by a group.

[/QUOTE]


good point T. I was bashed in Sydney, i have never had any real problems in Newcastle so I suppose I am guilty of misrepresenting as well. Shame on me

[zen_rider]

What a bunch of cock spankers

Don't mean to hijack your thread but I got robbed once. Some dipshit broke into my room and stole some money out of my wallet at night. I woke up just as he was leaving and some switch just flipped in my head. Usually I don't look for trouble at all, haven't been in a fight since primary school but I just went beserk, lanched out of bed and went straight for him while screaming at the mofo. i ended up putting my hand through a window trying to catch him (it was still dark) but he ended up getting away, luckily. i'm not sure what i would have done to him otherwise. i was in a crazy state of mind. But if it happened again I would try even harder to catch the guy. just for peace of mind.

point is, these people never really get away with it. they gotta wake up every day and know that they weren't good enough to get these stolen goods through honest means. Unfortunately this feeling of insecurity tends to lead to more bad shit and the cycle amplifies.

[Refreshinglygood]

I'm spankin right now

[heppy]

farout i think people are using the word racist to freely these days.
Theres fact and theres hate(racism), And obviously some "groups" havent given them selves the best reputation by the actions of a % in that group.

[Krusty]

dude thats messed up, i have never been rolled before but i have had people try but then just end up threatening me so i ride away, but if you can find them then you should do it, get ur stuff bak, and then rearrange their faces, i doubt da gun was loaded too you know but oh well better to be safe then sorry.

cheers.

[bulllet]

dude thats messed up, i have never been rolled before but i have had people try but then just end up threatening me so i ride away, but if you can find them then you should do it, get ur stuff bak, and then rearrange their faces, i doubt da gun was loaded too you know but oh well better to be safe then sorry.

cheers.

Next time I see you riding around sydney, I will point a gun at your head and let you attempt to rearrange my face. Its natural too pack it when something happens thats bad.

Why do we all try to act so tuff like, if this was to happen to me blah blah blah Id have smashed his face blah blah blah id knock him into next week. There is no point, when someone comes at you, or a number of people it is bad enough, when they bring weapons id be shitting myself. I call it the "oh shit" factor.

When the blokes run at you it starts at, "oh... shit"

When the blokes get to you its at, "oh shit oh shit"

when they pull a knife its at, "oh shit oh shit oh shit shit shit shit....RUNNNNN!!!!"

you may stand a chance 1 on 1 or 1 on 2, but unless you are tai kickboxxer muhammad alis son, a chopper read impersonator and have anthony mundine tattooed on both shoulders you won't stand a chance 10+ on 1.

[Ruckus_Lord]

dude thats messed up, i have never been rolled before but i have had people try but then just end up threatening me so i ride away, but if you can find them then you should do it, get ur stuff bak, and then rearrange their faces, i doubt da gun was loaded too you know but oh well better to be safe then sorry.

cheers.

You never know this those leb's man....Not meaning too be 'racist' in anyway, But some of those guys are crazy fuckers, You just can't tell if they're bluffing or not...But to be honest, I think the gamble between your life and some valuables is too great to be taken.

That's a pritty disturbing story man, Pritty unlucky you had too be a part of it.:(

[RuDeZ]

You here some people say that they would have done the hero thing after hearing a story like that. When your in a situation like that it's very different.

There may be a chance that hes bluffing, but accidents can happen with guns, if you refuse you can't predict whats gonna happen.

[tonka_202]

No wonder this country like hates em, but the thing is some of them are good vlokes its just others are setting a bad name for the rest!

[Shane_ishga]

learn martial arts or something
its fun and it works

[hubbie]

do we even know they were actually Lebs? to be less racist, lets generalise it to make it anyone of middle eastern appearence :p

[Lowrider#1]

I'm probably stating the obvious here, but have you noticed that no matter what race these thugs are, be it white, middle-eastern, or black of some variety, they always pick on people while they are in gangs. you never hear of a person haveng the sh*t kicked out of him by say, one guy, it's nearly alwys a group of them.
For instance, TWO CARLOADS of lebanese guys following one guy walking home. Yeh, that's tough. Tough like a friggen' lamb.
Also, on the subject of weaponry. What sorta weak dickhead walks around with a knife/gun looking for trouble. These wankers think they're just so 'ful sik bra' because they can pull a knife or gun on somebody. If they had 5% of the balls they think they've got they wouldn't need weapons or to hang around in groups.
And as for the racism issue, I think that their is a difference between being racist and realistic. Being racist, as I see it, is discriminating against a whole race due to your personal thoughts/feelings of the race. Being realistic, on the other hand is observing the acts of a race (with it's exceptions of course) and then making a statement about it.
For instance, being racist is me saying, "Those half-bred aboriginals are bloody worthless etc etc." While being realistic would be me telling somebody about how at work (I work at a BP) i've only ever seen ONE semi-full aboriginal fill up their car. It was quite a nice car too. She obviously had a decent job. All the others and i mean, ALL the others that I have seen come in in their sh*tted-out cars and ask for $5-10 of fuel. etc, etc.
Like, those who say in their threads that they have lebanese friends who are very good people, but the deadsh*ts of their race that are trying to prove something are bringing the name of the whole race into shame, that's being realistic.
Any constructive criticism wilfully accepted.
Cheers,
Lowrider

[tonka_202]

yer man, i tottaly agree with you 'lowrider#1', seriously who walks around with a gun looking for trouble then say if something did go wrong and you shot him, you would be in jail for a long long time i would hope, because that kid had the whole rest of his life on his hands and you have now taken that kids life and i'll tell you what i bet that kid had a mum and a dad too and could you imagion what they would be suffering, knowing that there kid's life was taken buy some stupid idiot trying to be cool, looking for trouble.

i know if i had a kid and that happend to him, my life wouldn't be worth living..

[W2ttsy]

i love how australia wont let people who can safely use guns own them, yet criminals can get them with no effort at all.

then again, if this was the US of Gay, then that leb would have 3 or more 9mm slugs in his face from the other people in the park shooting in self defence.

the idea is to educate and offer safe gun sales (ID checks, back ground checks, etc) not ban the shit out of them.

the hypocrasy of democracy.

W2ttsy

[Mur]

back to the original topic....
ive never had ny problems at skate parks or dirt jumps
but now u guys have made me scared shitless of them :eek:

[NCR600]

Ok then, I'll bite, Cops obviously have the best reputation don't they, they are all honest!.

Why the hell would the police do research anyway, this would be a biast study. The group that does research should not be attached to the issue.

Hmm, the police doing studies on crime rates, that sounds like it could be free of bias.

I don't think it was the police themselves doing the study, they were only collecting the data on behalf of another agency. They were asked to stop on grounds of racism when the fact they were collecting information on ethnic background was found out by some other government agency.

The Department of Corrective Services has been seperating maximum security prisoners, based on race, and has found it has reduced gang related violence in NSW prisons (source: 4 Corners, about 6 weeks ago... see I'm getting better at referencing!)

And to be perfectly honest, ALL the cops I know, (I was at a party tonight where 75% of those attending were uniformed police) are indeed trustworthy, and they have to be with all the conditions they have to comply with when making arrests etc. Dishonest cops (uniformed anyway) don't exist anymore.

[tonka_202]

i love how australia wont let people who can safely use guns own them, yet criminals can get them with no effort at all.

then again, if this was the US of Gay, then that leb would have 3 or more 9mm slugs in his face from the other people in the park shooting in self defence.

the idea is to educate and offer safe gun sales (ID checks, back ground checks, etc) not ban the shit out of them.

the hypocrasy of democracy.

W2ttsy



Man no offense or anything but you really couldn't do that say cause one leb legally has a gun so he can leggaly walk around with it, without being scared from the cops, now that he has a gun and can wave it around then the rest of his group gets guns, and if i was a father, and i knew that a trouble seeking group had a few guns that even lived 50kms away i would get a gun just to be safe even though i would have never wanted one if they were illegal, then when that happens more and more people end up having a gun. soon everyone that can afford a gun has one and The whole world could never trust each other anymore!!!!



That is Just My Opinion Anyway.

[zids]

i love how australia wont let people who can safely use guns own them, yet criminals can get them with no effort at all.

then again, if this was the US of Gay, then that leb would have 3 or more 9mm slugs in his face from the other people in the park shooting in self defence.

the idea is to educate and offer safe gun sales (ID checks, back ground checks, etc) not ban the shit out of them.

the hypocrasy of democracy.

W2ttsy

but what happens when we have 100's and 1000's of guns lying around in homes, not only would there be wy more guns, but way, way more criminals would have guns. I do not see how this would help in any way?

[Shane_ishga]

but what happens when we have 100's and 1000's of guns lying around in homes, not only would there be wy more guns, but way, way more criminals would have guns. I do not see how this would help in any way?

the idea is to educate and offer safe gun sales (ID checks, back ground checks, etc) not ban the shit out of them.

i suppose even with all those checks and stuff criminals will still have a way to get them.
theres unregistered guns everywere these days.

[zids]

sorry, what I was trying to say was, sure maybe only "good" people would get the guns, but where do they keep them? surel if 100's of "good" people have guns robbers, gangs etc: could easily break in and take their guns. Once there are guns circulating, everybody will eb able to get their hands on them.

[Shane_ishga]

sorry, what I was trying to say was, sure maybe only "good" people would get the guns, but where do they keep them? surel if 100's of "good" people have guns robbers, gangs etc: could easily break in and take their guns. Once there are guns circulating, everybody will eb able to get their hands on them.
thats why they have gun safes/cabinets
and its compulsory to lock them in one

[Shane_ishga]

Gun control is being able to hit your target

[tonka_202]

thats why they have gun safes/cabinets
and its compulsory to lock them in one

whats the point of having a gun if it's locked up then?, i mean you would only use it if someone broke into your home! and it's very easy to crack open a locker so then you would need a safe or something that is hard to open, then whats the point of having a gun when it takes 2 minutes to get the gun anyway. The world would be much safer if only cops had guns, and australia is much safer with only cops and security having guns!

People would just be threatening eachother with guns all the time!

[wombat]

whats the point of having a gun if it's locked up then?, i mean you would only use it if someone broke into your home! and it's very easy to crack open a locker so then you would need a safe or something that is hard to open, then whats the point of having a gun when it takes 2 minutes to get the gun anyway.
Ever heard of sport shooting? My grandparents own a range of pistols and rifles (they're both long time sport shooters), and the guns are all kept safely locked away in safes as required by law.

The whole point of having the guns locked away is so that they are hard to get to, so no one can steal them or break in and use them against you, so kids etc. can't accidently get a hold of them, and I suppose so that you can't grab them in a hurry and do something you're really going to regret.

In our society, only an idiot would want to keep a gun in the home for protection.

[Shane_ishga]

Ever heard of sport shooting? My grandparents own a range of pistols and rifles (they're both long time sport shooters), and the guns are all kept safely locked away in safes as required by law.

The whole point of having the guns locked away is so that they are hard to get to, so no one can steal them or break in and use them against you, so kids etc. can't accidently get a hold of them, and I suppose so that you can't grab them in a hurry and do something you're really going to regret.

In our society, only an idiot would want to keep a gun in the home for protection.
Exactly;)
_______

[tonka_202]

Ever heard of sport shooting? My grandparents own a range of pistols and rifles (they're both long time sport shooters), and the guns are all kept safely locked away in safes as required by law.

The whole point of having the guns locked away is so that they are hard to get to, so no one can steal them or break in and use them against you, so kids etc. can't accidently get a hold of them, and I suppose so that you can't grab them in a hurry and do something you're really going to regret.

In our society, only an idiot would want to keep a gun in the home for protection.


oh yer i agree with you, so you dont do something you would regret, and i agree that sport shooting is fine too, and i should have mentioned it!

[Arete]

i love how australia wont let people who can safely use guns own them, yet criminals can get them with no effort at all.

then again, if this was the US of Gay, then that leb would have 3 or more 9mm slugs in his face from the other people in the park shooting in self defence.

the idea is to educate and offer safe gun sales (ID checks, back ground checks, etc) not ban the shit out of them.

the hypocrasy of democracy.

W2ttsy


If you're suggesting that less restriction of firearms lowers the crime rate, I'd love to see some objective evidence to substantiate that claim.

[NCR600]

If you're suggesting that less restriction of firearms lowers the crime rate, I'd love to see some objective evidence to substantiate that claim.

Here's one that says concealed carry laws in Arizona can't be proven to have had an effect on lowering gun crime (the article explains why) but it definately hasn't increased it over 10 years.


http://www.azstarnet.com/dailystar/news/29510.php

[C*RISSO]

I cant believe the response to this post. I just wanted to make people aware that this stuff happens. Apparently there has been a few of these incidents happening in recent and i just wanted people to know that it only takes 2 seconds to get caught up in this sort of mess. Skateparks are safe as long as you know who is around you. ONLY CARRY STUFF THAT YOU DONT MIND LEAVING BEHIND.

[W2ttsy]

If you're suggesting that less restriction of firearms lowers the crime rate, I'd love to see some objective evidence to substantiate that claim.

Canada has one of the most lenient gun polocies in the world. yet, since people are educated, and know how to treat the weapons, there are fewer deaths per year.

half of the gun deaths reported in the US are mostly from misfires or people using a gun when they didnt know how to operate it.

the three basic rules of gun use:
1) ALWAYS treat a gun as though its loaded
2) never point a gun at anything you dont intend to destroy
3) never place your finger inside the trigger guard unless you are 100% sure the target is safe to shoot at.

ive fired guns before, and even prior to that i wasnt allowed to touch the weapon until id had the rules (there are 12) programmed into my head.

just because Jack Bauer runs around with a loaded pistol and aims it at everything, doesnt mean the rest of the world should. and since this is the only gun education we have, i guess its why people just feel they can wave them around. hell we dont even have a national gun body, let alone education.

also, im not saying that making guns more readily available is a good thing. im saying that it should be easier for people to get a pistol if they warrant one. sure any gang banger can get a 9mm illegally, its called the black market, but for people who want to own one, they should be allowed to get one (via proper protocols) instead of "well the govt said no, so thats the answer".

W2ttsy

[tonka_202]

Canada has one of the most lenient gun polocies in the world. yet, since people are educated, and know how to treat the weapons, there are fewer deaths per year.

half of the gun deaths reported in the US are mostly from misfires or people using a gun when they didnt know how to operate it.

the three basic rules of gun use:
1) ALWAYS treat a gun as though its loaded
2) never point a gun at anything you dont intend to destroy
3) never place your finger inside the trigger guard unless you are 100% sure the target is safe to shoot at.

ive fired guns before, and even prior to that i wasnt allowed to touch the weapon until id had the rules (there are 12) programmed into my head.

just because Jack Bauer runs around with a loaded pistol and aims it at everything, doesnt mean the rest of the world should. and since this is the only gun education we have, i guess its why people just feel they can wave them around. hell we dont even have a national gun body, let alone education.

also, im not saying that making guns more readily available is a good thing. im saying that it should be easier for people to get a pistol if they warrant one. sure any gang banger can get a 9mm illegally, its called the black market, but for people who want to own one, they should be allowed to get one (via proper protocols) instead of "well the govt said no, so thats the answer".

W2ttsy


still it is just much easier without guns, and people even with your rules that i somewhat agree to will still always be scared and always be concious, i know i would!

[Tristan23]

This has been an amazing thread to read. I think before we all start fighting over whether something is racist or not we should realise as the thread starter said, that this thread is made to open our eyes to what happens out there. I know it did for me.
Another thing. Australia is THE best country in the world. Yeah, there may be incidents out there, and i know it'd scare the shit out of me if anything i'd ever witnessed had got serious, but the reality is compared to a shitload of other countries out there Australia is bloody safe. (or maybe i just havent seen enough:o )

So in conclusion i think we should all be thankful for where we live and what we have, but that's just my opinion if you wanna rip it to shit:rolleyes: .

TRSTN out.

[tonka_202]

nah man good post, and that is why we get so many people making australia home cause it is safe and a nice plce to live. evn though with a few riots and terroist tacks have unsettled that comment a bit i still totally agree with it. :D


Aussie Pride:D

[Cletus]

This has been an amazing thread to read. I think before we all start fighting over whether something is racist or not we should realise as the thread starter said, that this thread is made to open our eyes to what happens out there. I know it did for me.
Another thing. Australia is THE best country in the world. Yeah, there may be incidents out there, and i know it'd scare the shit out of me if anything i'd ever witnessed had got serious, but the reality is compared to a shitload of other countries out there Australia is bloody safe. (or maybe i just havent seen enough:o )

So in conclusion i think we should all be thankful for where we live and what we have, but that's just my opinion if you wanna rip it to shit:rolleyes: .

TRSTN out.


i think we are all very happy and proud we all live here in australia, but i think this thread is about keeping australia a happy and safe place to live.
if we dont start doing somthing about the racial gangs, and our firearm laws our country is going to turn to shit like alot of the other countrys out there.

i used to do alot of rifel shooting with my old man when i was younger and it was a great and safe sport, the only problems with guns is when criminals get there hands on them, taking guns off licenced owners has done nothing for lowering gun crimes here because its not the registered firearms doing the damage its the illegal black market weapons that are flooding into austraila.

alot of laws in australia are pretty piss weak and need to be changed, i cant see a problem with harsher penalites for gang related and gun crimes because really its dead easy to understand, if you dont do the crime you wont do the time. i think that we have all this crime because we dont have any deterant, so why has'nt our government stiffend the penaltys??

[W2ttsy]

still it is just much easier without guns, and people even with your rules that i somewhat agree to will still always be scared and always be concious, i know i would!

but then how do we defend ourselves against the only people that can have guns. cops and criminals (even if guns are outlawed, it wont stop crims. didnt stop drinking during prohibition in the US)

so we either get the shit shot out of us by crims, or get made into a policed country. both of these are bad things.
not to mention the rate of knive/sharp objects death will rise dramatically. if you cant kill it, chop it.

chris rock quite rightly said "any punk can shoot someone across the room, but it takes a real man to get close enough to stab"

W2ttsy

[rabbitt69]

dam sounds like uv had a bit of bad luck
at least you wernt shot or stabed
in case this hasn't been answered what skate park was it at???

[tonka_202]

but then how do we defend ourselves against the only people that can have guns. cops and criminals (even if guns are outlawed, it wont stop crims. didnt stop drinking during prohibition in the US)

so we either get the shit shot out of us by crims, or get made into a policed country. both of these are bad things.
not to mention the rate of knive/sharp objects death will rise dramatically. if you cant kill it, chop it.

chris rock quite rightly said "any punk can shoot someone across the room, but it takes a real man to get close enough to stab"

W2ttsy

I bet you that aussie's crime rate is lower than America's per 1000 people.
and i bet you if we bought in guns that would all change and crime rate would go up. say if i am wrong aussie still wouldn't be as such a nicer or safer place. nor would we get the tourism we do. i know if all my neighbors had guns and i DID (NOT THAT I DO MACCA, OR BRUISER DW GUYS:p ) hate them i would be very scared and wouldn't feel as safe.


thats my opinion anyway

[W2ttsy]

I bet you that aussie's crime rate is lower than America's per 1000 people.
and i bet you if we bought in guns that would all change and crime rate would go up. say if i am wrong aussie still wouldn't be as such a nicer or safer place. nor would we get the tourism we do. i know if all my neighbors had guns and i DID (NOT THAT I DO MACCA, OR BRUISER DW GUYS:p ) hate them i would be very scared and wouldn't feel as safe.


thats my opinion anyway


im not talking about gats mate, im talking about real guns. try shooting a home invader with a remington p700 (http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/700pltrtws.htm). its not going to happen. wouldnt even get it out of the gun safe, let alone the kevlar carry case.
sure if anyone could get their hands on a semi auto handgun, aus would soon end up like the us. but while banning all the dangerous arms (concealable pistols, auto rifles, auto shotties, etc) they also made it very hard to get semi auto rifles, bolt actions and other weapons which have a huge level of appeal.

i want to get into long range rifle shooting, but its very hard for me at the moment to get a licence that will allow me to own a long range rifle. pre port arthur, it wouldnt have been nearly as hard.

W2ttsy

[tonka_202]

im not talking about gats mate, im talking about real guns. try shooting a home invader with a remington p700 (http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/700pltrtws.htm). its not going to happen. wouldnt even get it out of the gun safe, let alone the kevlar carry case.
sure if anyone could get their hands on a semi auto handgun, aus would soon end up like the us. but while banning all the dangerous arms (concealable pistols, auto rifles, auto shotties, etc) they also made it very hard to get semi auto rifles, bolt actions and other weapons which have a huge level of appeal.

i want to get into long range rifle shooting, but its very hard for me at the moment to get a licence that will allow me to own a long range rifle. pre port arthur, it wouldnt have been nearly as hard.

W2ttsy


oh well i agree with you but maybe if you do shooting the rifle range should keep your guns locked up there, unless they do that already?

[entombed]

do we even know they were actually Lebs? to be less racist, lets generalise it to make it anyone of middle eastern appearence :p

You idiot. :rolleyes:

[Cletus]

at the local shooting range here you can leave your guns in their safes for a fee and im sure that would be the same for most if not all clubs in aust, but for the target and sporting shooter for a gun to be working at its best they have to be regularaliy(sp) maintained (i.e stripped, cleaned and oiled) and that takes alot of time and thats why its more conveniant to take your firearms home with you so you can do the work you need to to them.

and on the note of the hobart masacre, the rifle used was owned by a registerd gun owner but as the gun laws changed his gun was deemed illegal so he took the gun to the police station as a part of a buy back scheem where the gun was to be melted down.
some how though:rolleyes: the gun was illegaly resold and put back into circulation and thats how it ended up in martin bryant's hands.

now honestly, guns do kill people here in australia by mostly non registered criminals but that said, alot of innocent people are killed by cars too, by unlicenced drivers, so what are we going to do about that? ban cars??

[FR fraca]

prove me if im wrong i dont see any lebs winning races of late? isnt that all that really matters in life!? or is that just me :P

[Binaural]

at the local shooting range here you can leave your guns in their safes for a fee and im sure that would be the same for most if not all clubs in aust, but for the target and sporting shooter for a gun to be working at its best they have to be regularaliy(sp) maintained (i.e stripped, cleaned and oiled) and that takes alot of time and thats why its more conveniant to take your firearms home with you so you can do the work you need to to them.


Sure, it takes time to clean and service a gun, but I doubt regular maintenance would take that long. Guns are designed to be easily disassembled. Smart shooters would definitely not try repair any damage themselves, so basically you are taking about the time to clean a barrel with a brush and oil moving parts every few months. I actually think that concessions should be made to shooters who consent to keep their guns at licenced premised - reduces the chance they could be used for robberies or stolen by crooks. That said, it is still perfectly legal to own non-automatic rifles and keeep them at home provided you can pass the police check, so this is not really an issue.


and on the note of the hobart masacre, the rifle used was owned by a registerd gun owner but as the gun laws changed his gun was deemed illegal so he took the gun to the police station as a part of a buy back scheem where the gun was to be melted down.
some how though:rolleyes: the gun was illegaly resold and put back into circulation and thats how it ended up in martin bryant's hands.


I think you've answered your own question : making semi or fully automatic guns illegal makes it a lot harder for the disturbed to kill a lot of people very quickly. Who can really argue that they need an automatic weapon anyway? The fact crooked cops might resell the occasional weapon they take back doesn't matter in the long term; these guns cannot be legitimately maintained or sold to anybody but cops and most are straight. The alternative (legal automatics) is that Martin Bryant could have brought a top of the line and loads of ammo from a shop automatic rather than whatever he could get on the black market. Eventually, by squeezing supply of automatic weapons and their ammunition out of the market (including those retained by farmers etc that I know) we will all be a bit safer.


now honestly, guns do kill people here in australia by mostly non registered criminals but that said, alot of innocent people are killed by cars too, by unlicenced drivers, so what are we going to do about that? ban cars??

The difference is pretty obvious: cars are a useful tool for 99% of the population and guns are a useful tool for about 1% of the population (farmers and pest control). Guns are designed to kill things as their primary purpose, cars to transport people. Given these roles I see no problem in heavy gun control - one of the best things Howard has ever done.

Besides, unlicenced drivers are already banned and you can get 2000+ fines as a minimum. Have an accident unlicenced and kill somebody and you will definitely go to jail, maybe even if you only hurt them.

[Binaural]

but then how do we defend ourselves against the only people that can have guns. cops and criminals (even if guns are outlawed, it wont stop crims. didnt stop drinking during prohibition in the US)


You don't, simple as that. Society needs armies and police to be armed to do their job, it doesn't need citizens packing heat (most police on the beat are not armed either). If you start allowing regular citizens to keep guns for protection, you only get a situation where both criminals and citizens become more progressively heavily armed, a futile arms war.

Besides, to defend yourself against 90% of non-home invasion robberies you need a gun unsheathed and ready to draw. Is this the sort of Australia you want to live in?

I thank god we don't have the USA's idiotic right to bear arms. Half the violent crime problem the US has is because any clown with a grudge or a serious need for drug money can lay hands on an at least a semi-automatic weapon.


so we either get the shit shot out of us by crims, or get made into a policed country. both of these are bad things.
not to mention the rate of knive/sharp objects death will rise dramatically. if you cant kill it, chop it.

chris rock quite rightly said "any punk can shoot someone across the room, but it takes a real man to get close enough to stab"

W2ttsy

It is, obviously, a lot harder to kill people with a knife. Given the choice I would rather nutters with knives than guns. Besides, at least knives have a useful purpose apart from killing (oh sure, and shooting targets). Your quote illustrates exactly this, although I am sure you didn't think it meant that :) Besides, I have failed to notice this stabbing epidemic even though the situation you are talking about exists right now.

Given our relatively low rate of violent crime compared to the US, I doubt relaxing gun laws would do anything other than a rise in punks shooting people from across the room.

[slm33d]

Dont be so sure about that.....
yeah rg you should still be very carefull cause newy has massive dick heads like ones who use guns and knives.

[choicenro85]

Having lived in Hawthorn for a while, me and a friend were mugged by 5 others on the way home from a pub. There was no previous interaction, it just happened all of a suuden. One of the things I came to realise from it was just how often it happens. Afterwards, just about everyone I talked to had a story of how they or someone they knew had a similar incident.

[NCR600]

I see no problem in heavy gun control - one of the best things Howard has ever done.



If by 'best' you mean expensive and innefectual, I agree!




The incidence of robbery with a gun rose 34.1 per cent in inner Sydney, according to the latest Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research figures, while the occurrence of all types of crime - including robbery, murder, break and enter, assault, and fraud - had fallen or had remained stable since June 2002.



http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/08/23/1093113113318.html?from=storylhs

Same thing happened in England when they totally outlawed private ownership of handguns for ANY purpose (target/club shooting included) I believe handgun crime in England is up by 40%!

Private ownership of firearms has always been there, in much greater density than today. Anyone with half a brain can see that prohibition (of anything) doesn't work!

[Binaural]

If by 'best' you mean expensive and innefectual, I agree!

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/08/23/1093113113318.html?from=storylhs

Same thing happened in England when they totally outlawed private ownership of handguns for ANY purpose (target/club shooting included) I believe handgun crime in England is up by 40%!

Private ownership of firearms has always been there, in much greater density than today. Anyone with half a brain can see that prohibition (of anything) doesn't work!

Here is another article by the SMH:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/gun-laws-fall-short-in-war-on-crime/2005/10/28/1130400366681.html

As the head of the ABS says in the article, nobody knows just why this figure rises and dips, and while you can't say that crime has decreased as a result of gun ownership regulation it has certainly not increased. So while I can't prove that gun ownership has reduced crime in Australia, you cannot likewise prove that it has increased it.

In the nicest possible way I doubt your 40% ancedote about England unless you can produce sources. 40% from when to when, and what was the overall increase in crime during the same period? If they had a 100% increase in crime overall (for example) then your ancedote bats for the other side.

The article does say that firearm related crime is falling in Australia although the trend started before gun prohibition - even so, they have _continued_ to fall. This is not good evidence for your thesis that gun regulation is ineffective since you would expect gun crime to increase.

Prohibition does work for some things - you could argue that our laws are one long list of prohibitions and few (even people with half a brain) would argue that our entire legal system "just doesn't work". If we had no prohibitions our society would have no rules, the debate is only about selecting the right ones.

[NCR600]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3195908.stm

Best I can do on short notice. I'll see what I can do about finding some decent figures on the net, but it's hard as govenments tend not to like advertising that their laws don't work.

Guns are not the problem. A culture of violence is.

Case in point,

In the 50's my uncle used to get on the tram and travel from Sydney Boy's High, armed with a Lee-Enfield rifle and a pocket full of cartridges, to the Malabar rifle range. There were thousands of Luger and Nambu pistols in circulation, having been souvineered from surrendering Axis troops 10 years earlier. There were also lots of Webley revolvers souvineered from our own side!

Gun crime existed, but not to the extent it does now. Imagine what would happen today if a schoolboy got on a bus with a rifle and a pocket full of shells.

Something else in society is causing people to be more violent. Preventing law abiding people from owning rifles or handguns for legitimate purposes is just going to waste taxpayers money, and in the long run, not change anything.

[Binaural]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3195908.stm

Best I can do on short notice. I'll see what I can do about finding some decent figures on the net, but it's hard as govenments tend not to like advertising that their laws don't work.

Guns are not the problem. A culture of violence is.

Case in point,

In the 50's my uncle used to get on the tram and travel from Sydney Boy's High, armed with a Lee-Enfield rifle and a pocket full of cartridges, to the Malabar rifle range. There were thousands of Luger and Nambu pistols in circulation, having been souvineered from surrendering Axis troops 10 years earlier. There were also lots of Webley revolvers souvineered from our own side!

Gun crime existed, but not to the extent it does now. Imagine what would happen today if a schoolboy got on a bus with a rifle and a pocket full of shells.

Something else in society is causing people to be more violent. Preventing law abiding people from owning rifles or handguns for legitimate purposes is just going to waste taxpayers money, and in the long run, not change anything.

I like the BBC news website, should go there more often.

Your article states that last year the crime rate leapt 35% and this year it has risen 3% (both periods over 12 months) when the overall crime rate slightly declined. However, as the article also states, the risk of being shot in England and wales is one of the lowest overall in the world. A small number multiplied by a large percentage increase is a worry, but the bottom line remains that gun crime is still mcuh less of a problem in Britain than countries with liberal gun laws like the US even with these sort of fluctuations.

Whether a country has a culture of violence is another discussion, since as counterexamples to the US you no doubt know of places like Switzerland which have low gun crime despite widespread gun ownership (citizen army + national service). These places have low levels of crime overall as well so that does not prove much except that there will always be crooks somewhere willing to stick a gun in your face.

However, what matters is current gun crime levels, and we have to assume that Australia's attitude to violence will not change quickly. To do gun crime you need guns, and certain types of guns like hanguns are especially useful to crooks, and restricting supply will make it harder for small timers like junkies to hold up liquor stores. The more organized gangs may not see much difference but a significant amount of crime is not well planned and pretty spontaneous.

I also don't think that gun restrictions cost much either, buyback excepted. It really only consists of banning certain types for sale and import.

[W2ttsy]

but at the same time, even with a handgun ban, there are still gun crimes. at the end of the day, the only way crims are getting guns is by stealing them, or from the blackmarket.

how does restricting people buying them for non violent purposes (a way to unwind by going to the range, or pistol shooting comps) stop crims getting guns? it doesnt. so im calling bullshit on the howard govt's decision to ban them.

afterall, people buying guns for the above reasons know how to store and use them. they arent gang bangers or fools who leave them out and about. personally, i have no use for a handgun, but some people might.

not to mention that the same rules apply for long guns. banning sniper rifles hasnt reduced the amount of hold ups. no ones going to use a .308 bolt action sniper rifle to rob a 7/11.

the point im making is that the govt is banning the wrong weapons. when you read reports of US gun shootings, how many of them are accidental? how many are from a hangun? how many are from untrained operators trying to use them (kids, untrained adults)? apart from the occasional psycho with a stolen gun, having a long gun is not as dangerous as a pistol.
and i bet they appear right at the bottom in the stats, even the full auto assualt rifles.

W2ttsy

[Binaural]

but at the same time, even with a handgun ban, there are still gun crimes. at the end of the day, the only way crims are getting guns is by stealing them, or from the blackmarket.

how does restricting people buying them for non violent purposes (a way to unwind by going to the range, or pistol shooting comps) stop crims getting guns? it doesnt. so im calling bullshit on the howard govt's decision to ban them.

afterall, people buying guns for the above reasons know how to store and use them. they arent gang bangers or fools who leave them out and about. personally, i have no use for a handgun, but some people might.

not to mention that the same rules apply for long guns. banning sniper rifles hasnt reduced the amount of hold ups. no ones going to use a .308 bolt action sniper rifle to rob a 7/11.

the point im making is that the govt is banning the wrong weapons. when you read reports of US gun shootings, how many of them are accidental? how many are from a hangun? how many are from untrained operators trying to use them (kids, untrained adults)? apart from the occasional psycho with a stolen gun, having a long gun is not as dangerous as a pistol.
and i bet they appear right at the bottom in the stats, even the full auto assualt rifles.

W2ttsy

As I recall, the Washington sniper managed to terrorize a city for months and killed a lot of people. He only got caught by a fluke in the end as well, could have gone on for much longer. Any gun is dangerous in the hand of a nutter I suppose, although I am kinda sympathetic to you here since it's mostly concealed weapons and urban crime that's the problem.

[twitchy]

A Simple message for the migrants that treat Australia like shit.
"If you don't love it,LEAVE". I'll drive 'em to the airport.
I have a lot of mates from all backgrounds & they intergrated to our way of life just fine. But there are some who just don't want our way of life & they can go back to thier wonerful Sandhills if they find it better.:eek:

[TonyG]

My opinion on gun control,
Guns in the house are completely unnecessary, and I can’t see any valid reason that people should be allowed to keep arms at home, given the obvious risks that are associated with guns at home. If people want guns for shooting targets then the guns should stay at the gun club, in a secure place.
As for farmers they should be limited to what weapons they own. I have quiet a few mates who are farmers, including my brother, and all have a ridiculous amount of guns. They shoot for sport, and I guess like mtb riding, you end up getting a lot of toys.
Australia really needs to limit the number of guns it has in circulation.
Also we need much tougher laws on gun related crimes.
As for NCR's comment about changing violent altitude of Australia since the
50's I couldn’t agree more. This is an unfortunate trend in most countries. It isn’t going to change either. Criminals seem to becoming more and more aggressive and violent. This is why we need to limit, as best we can, the amount of guns in circulation. This isn’t going to remove the problem but it may help in some way. This may inconvenience a few people, but if it saves a few lives, then bad luck it was worth it.
I can understand the frustration of gun owners, as I didn’t always feel this way, but as I got older and balder I realised that I didn’t really need to shoot a gun. It isn’t going to wreak my world if I never shoot a gun again, however someone else may have their life ruined and that of their family if others get there hands on a gun that they may never have had the opportunity to get their hands on if they where legal.
My 20 cents worth,
well perhaps a bit more than 20 cents, I tend to ramble on.

[NCR600]

If people want guns for shooting targets then the guns should stay at the gun club, in a secure place.


The big problem with this (and probably the reason why it's never been implemented, despite many calls) is that it concentrates a large amount of firearms in one place. Police stations have been broken into, and even held up by armed robbers to obtain the guns/drugs held within. A shooting club would be a much easier target!

Also not many clubs could afford to provide the massive security needed to store a large amount of firearms on their premisies. let alone the insurance.

[TonyG]

The big problem with this (and probably the reason why it's never been implemented, despite many calls) is that it concentrates a large amount of firearms in one place. Police stations have been broken into, and even held up by armed robbers to obtain the guns/drugs held within. A shooting club would be a much easier target!

Also not many clubs could afford to provide the massive security needed to store a large amount of firearms on their premisies. let alone the insurance.

True, I concede.
It does make you wonder if they are worth having around at all. Do the benefits outway the downside risk.
It is always the few who wreak it for the rest!