Short track/dirt crits

[Mr Pants]

Having read up on what's going on down Mexico way (Melbourne) it kinda shits me that there's about 3 regular short track/dirt crit type events happening every week there but nuthin' in the great metropolis that is Sydney.

Yes, MWMTB did its dirt crits for a month or so early this year but wouldn't it be great to have a hit out every week.

SO, how 'bout we do some research here and feed the results to local clubs or a promoter and see if it's worth getting this to happen.

Answer me these questions three (or more..)

1) Would you like to do regular dirt crits in Sydney?

2) How often would you attend (in reality, not fantasy land)?

3) Which evening?

3) Where would be a good location? a) Homebush b) St Ives c) Sydney Park - St Peters. d) got a better idea?

4) How much would you pay per week to race (not including day licence)?

5) There would probably be prizes for series winners, say once every 10 races but are individual race prizes that big a deal or would you prefer cheap post race food/BBQ/beer for all?



Lets do this thing, Pants.:)

[John U]

Good idea, bring it on.
Similar to format to the summer series would be good

1) Would you like to do regular dirt crits in Sydney? Yes

2) How often would you attend (in reality, not fantasy land)? Once a month would be good but depends a lot on time and location

3) Which evening? Saturday arvo

3) Where would be a good location? a) Homebush b) St Ives c) Sydney Park - St Peters. d) got a better idea? St Ives

4) How much would you pay per week to race (not including day licence)? Dunno, whatever was charged for the short track series held through the summer

5) There would probably be prizes for series winners, say once every 10 races but are individual race prizes that big a deal or would you prefer cheap post race food/BBQ/beer for all? Not fussy, I am not going to win anything but wouln't mind a snag and beer afterwards.

[alchemist]

1) Would you like to do regular dirt crits in Sydney?


Yep


2) How often would you attend (in reality, not fantasy land)?


Very


3) Which evening?


Wednesday/Thursday


3) Where would be a good location? a) Homebush b) St Ives c) Sydney Park - St Peters. d) got a better idea?


Somewhere central would be good, St Ives is a fun track but a bit of a hike for most. An XCish track at Homebush would be cool.


4) How much would you pay per week to race (not including day licence)?


5 to 10 bucks


5) There would probably be prizes for series winners, say once every 10 races but are individual race prizes that big a deal or would you prefer cheap post race food/BBQ/beer for all?


Series prizes (encourage people to turn up regularly) and cheep food.

[hdtvkss]

1) Would you like to do regular dirt crits in Sydney? - hell yes, brought this up earlier in the year.

2) How often would you attend (in reality, not fantasy land)? - depends what days - weekends maybee 1, 2 X a month, on weekdays- every week if possible.

3) Which evening? - surprise me :)

3) Where would be a good location? a) Homebush b) St Ives c) Sydney Park - St Peters. d) got a better idea? - i think st ives was great.

4) How much would you pay per week to race (not including day licence)? - between 5 - 10, normal XC race cost.

5) There would probably be prizes for series winners, say once every 10 races but are individual race prizes that big a deal or would you prefer cheap post race food/BBQ/beer for all? - both really. not that im really in contention to win anything.

[craigb]

depending on what melbourne crits your talking about the ones in melbourne are year round $10 with prizes and last time i went they had a few minchies aswell. or just the summer one that i go to $6 no prizes but a heaps better track and more laid back. the second one was a propper crit 30 mins and one lap on a track with hills etc. the melbourne one is fairly flat but still a lot of fun

[thecat]

Having read up on what's going on down Mexico way (Melbourne) it kinda shits me that there's about 3 regular short track/dirt crit type events happening every week there but nuthin' in the great metropolis that is Sydney.


Pffft get out of the smog hole and call on up to the 'Go.
We had 2 great short course series over summer/Autum and if I get my finger out will have a winter series too.

[alchemist]

We would if we could Mr Cat, the 'gow's a bit far for some mide week hurting. Which reminds me I must find time in my calendar to get up for some practice for the opening National round.

Alchemist - Mtn biking demi-god

[Bodin]

Having read up on what's going on down Mexico way (Melbourne) it kinda shits me that there's about 3 regular short track/dirt crit type events happening every week there but nuthin' in the great metropolis that is Sydney.

Seeing as we're clearly so far ahead of your filthy, over-populated slumtropolis, then maybe it's time for you to pull your heads in with the whole "Mexico" thing? :p

Seriously, though, good luck with getting something going. It's been a fantastic addition to the scene "down here", as it has provided an almost true MTB experience for people that own MTBs and find it too hard to make it out to the trails to experience MTB racing - sort of like what indoor climbing gyms started doing for the rock climbing world about 15 years ago...

[gustfront]

1) Would you go: YEP

2) How often would I attend: Once a fortnight to monthly probably

3) Which evening: Oh, so we're talking night riding! Doh! Well Wednesday's would be good. Otherwise Sat mornings.

4) St Ives is a good track. Have no knowledge of the others so shouldn't comment.

5) How much? I think you'd need to make it at least $10 otherwise it won't happen.

6) Prizes or BBQ - not fussed. But if pressed I'd say weekly lucky draw prize with prizes for series results (autumn, winter, spring). And make a point score system that rewards attendance.

[PDogg]

One question not on the list:

* Who is willing to devote far more of your personal time than you ever imagined to run said race/series? Far, far, far more......

[liamo]

1) Would you like to do regular dirt crits in Sydney?

Yep

2) How often would you attend (in reality, not fantasy land)?

Once every couple of weeks.

3) Which evening?

Midweek suits.

3) Where would be a good location? a) Homebush b) St Ives c) Sydney Park - St Peters. d) got a better idea?

Haven't I already answered question 3?

Snives is a great track, but it is a bit of a hike for us not living on the north shore/beaches. Homebush or SP would probably get a whole bunch of riders who couldn't/didn't get to the St Ives series.

4) How much would you pay per week to race (not including day licence)?

$10

5) There would probably be prizes for series winners, say once every 10 races but are individual race prizes that big a deal or would you prefer cheap post race food/BBQ/beer for all?

Individual prizes? Meh. Maybe the random class prizes as offered at the last crits. BBQ's are the best though! But if it's mid winter I suspect most punters (or maybe just me) will want to go to somewhere warm. With caffeine:cool:
* Who is willing to devote far more of your personal time than you ever imagined to run said race/series? Far, far, far more......
Mr Pants? Thanks mate!

Liam

[Mr Pants]

One question not on the list:
* Who is willing to devote far more of your personal time than you ever imagined to run said race/series? Far, far, far more......

Not a question on the list but covered in my opening blurb was that this research will be fed to a promoter type person (read: BOP) who might see it as a $$ proposition like FGP does in Melb.

That, or all the Sydney clubs could co-operate and run one round each so it's only a PIA every 3 or 4 races. If it was a regular thing it would gain momentum with a broad base of riders turning up much like Heffron Park for the roadies.

I would actually be happy to administer the thing (promo, results, calandar, sponsors) as long as I can race more often than not... in C grade...

I've been thinking an STXC course around the area of the MTN cross course, even using bits of it, could be pretty cool. I recall Tony Scott was having chats to SOP about establishing an XC track there, I might chase him up and see if it'll fly.

Keep the feedback coming!! The more demand we can demonstrate, the more likely this will happen.

[spewyogrady]

Dirt Crits at St Ives Showground are a success because they make use of an existing facility designed for a similar reason. They take place in the summer months when daylight saving allows.

Unfortunately Sydney is a sprawling city and St Ives is not easily accessible for a lot of people, however it is the nature of Mountain Biking that it takes place in the bush and consequently the majority of existing tracks are in Bushland on the outskirts of the city. Unless the track is located in the geographical centre of Sydney then there are always going to be people who are unable to attend due to the logistics of the travel involved.

Correct me if i'm wrong but the other main drawback would appear to be that in the Winter months it gets dark at 5pm. Maybe down in Melbourne, where the sun shines out of everyones arse;) , this is not a problem.

So, what you are looking for is a central, lit location, with some semblance of MTB involved, not just Heffron on fat tyres. Tough call.

SOP is the obvious choice for location, it has existing infrastructure, a highly developed policy for charging for car parking in the middle of nowhere, toilets etc etc...

Geographically the perfect location would be Parramatta Park, dead centre of
Sydney, no complaints. Parramatta Lake would also be good, has existing trails etc etc..but god knows how you'd go in the dark.

I think Snoop Doggy has already pointed out the other obvious limitations.

I can see Mr Pants turning the Sausages in between laps in C Grade.

The Website of the Melbourne equivalent asks for volunteers? Do BOP get volunteers to help out for free race entry etc etc?

If anyone has time to appraoch SOPA or Parramatta Park Trust I wish them well. Perhaps using the example of the Port melbourne races as a basis. SOPA already has experience of Mountain Bikers trying to break the boom gates at Car Park 5 so I'm sure they would be dying to invite more onto the site.

Good luck to whoever takes this on...

[Carlin]

1) Would you like to do regular dirt crits in Sydney?

2) How often would you attend (in reality, not fantasy land)?

3) Which evening?

3) Where would be a good location? a) Homebush b) St Ives c) Sydney Park - St Peters. d) got a better idea?

4) How much would you pay per week to race (not including day licence)?

5) There would probably be prizes for series winners, say once every 10 races but are individual race prizes that big a deal or would you prefer cheap post race food/BBQ/beer for all?

1) For Sure, they would absolutely rock. On or off road, just provinging there was a tight handling element, some steps, bunny hops, CX style obstacles if they had to be on concrete.

2) Potentially every week, at least 3 out of 4 weeks.

3) Monday, Tueasay, Thursday, Friday (but not at above frequency).

3)The main thing that stopped me from getting to the St
Ives crits last season was accessability, I just could not get up there in time after work on Wednesdays and was working most Saturdays that one was on. I think that a location should be as close to the CBD as possible and allow enough time to ride there from the CBD after 5:00pm.

4) Up to $15, but $10 would be reasonable.

5) Respect would be enough of a prize, BBQ and Beer is good.

Any way I think the idea is great. I would love to see more regular cycling events like these.

[schmackster]

I was the race director for the last MWMTB dirt crit series and my opinions below are based on my experiences from the last couple of summer series races that we have run.


We needed at least 3 people to run the event, 1 person to look after the track/bunting and do lead out laps. 1 person to do all the starts and collate the results and this person sometimes needed a helper as the riders were coming through. Finally at least 1 person but 2 is preferable to look after rego.
If you want a BBQ then you will need someone to look after that and you may get a local group in need of fundraising money to do it but once a week maybe difficult especially on weeknights.
Prizes and sponsorship can be organised but it needs someone dedicated to the task. We found that plenty of shop/distributors were to help out but they needed constant reminding of their promises.


IMHO a big bike shop would be in the best position to do this as they get to promote themselves as a shop, they already have the staff who can help out and they have the contacts in the industry for prizes. A promoter probably won't be interested in an event like this as there are a lot of events with a little return. At the end of the series they might make some money but it is easier for them to do one single larger event like an 8hr and still make the same amount but for less work.

The problem with volunteer events is that you need a champion (Mr Pants?) who is completely committed all of the time not just at the start. My problem was that I had a full time job, a wife and 3 young kids that I also had to find time for and anything more than once a month was too much.

Sorry to rain on the party but having been there I know how hard it is. If you have the drive, determination, and most importantly the time to devote to it then it will succeed but be prepared for a long haul.

[Hornsby]

1, yes
2, once a month is the only sensible schedule
3, Saturday so it can be during daylight, not everybody has lights! Kids races can also be organised on weekends making it easier (or harder) for families to come along.
3 Homebush is best for all of Sydney as it has the infrastructure and other activites nearby for the non mtb family members or St ives which also has the infrastructure but is out of the way.
4, $10 max you are only racing for 15-30 mins
5, BBQ & drinks with a series prize at the end of the year.

If it was 10 events over a year one for every month except December & January and the rounds were split between clubs WSMTB, MWMTB & TORC then each club could organise vollies once every three month with any vollies getting some kind of average points for missing a round. But it would still need a couple of people to drive the project along. The final round could be split between all clubs making it a big end of year bash. I'd volly for the MWMTB hosted rounds.

[Loriness]

1, yes
2, once a month, max 1 a fortnight
3, Saturday
St Ives would be my first prefernce with the setup available, then Homebush (not sure where, but the 4x track is too short)
4, $10
5, not really fuss.

[ebuk]

, 1 person to look after the track/bunting and do lead out laps.

Off topic a bit (sorry)... I never understood the function of lead out laps when I raced. Is it a necessary function in dirt crits to spread out the field at the start? A link to road crits? Or does it have another purpose?

[Bike_freak]

Not sure if this has been mentioned or not.... but the reason why Melbourne riders have thiers all year round is it turns into a night race in the winter... These days most people have lights so this may still work - but some races at Arcadia would be awesome (remember the good ol days?).

As for STXC - I'd attend fortnightly or even weekly if it is kept at St Ives:) Homebush would also be very cool - but not as easy to get to.

[Mr Pants]

Not sure if this has been mentioned or not....

No it hasn't, I didn't bother replying because I couldn't believe anyone wouldn't figure it out, so thanks, please continue...

but the reason why Melbourne riders have thiers all year round is it turns into a night race in the winter...

Yep, that's it. Riders wouldn't really need much lighting (10W halogen and enough battery for 25 mins.) just so they don't run into stuff which would be covered in reflectors anyway.

Lets face it, most people use their lights for 2 training rides before a 24 hour and the race itself, then it's back in the box for 11 months. And why are people slower at night in 24's? Mainly because they're not confident at night riding. Opportunity beckons.

Meh?:(

[Sam02]

Just letting you all know, you probaly all ready do but we have dirt(night and day) crits and there awesome. We get around 30-40 people on good nights.

[frostbite]

Ive been down to the FGP crits a bit - they are heaps of fun. After so many weeks of darkness now, the idea of racing in sunshine is just wierd. Someone said that Melbourne has 3 crits a week? Apart from the thursdays down at westgate park - what else is there?

[dain2772]

I know this shows me as somewhat of a race amatuer (which is true), but what exactly is a 'crit'?

I would be interested once a month in a social ride/race, I am north of the city, so homebush, or st ives would be great.

[alchemist]

What's a crit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criterium) Crit is short for criterium. Usually a short race, often based on time rather than distance so it will 15 minutes + 3 laps.

As for social riders check the MWMTB Calendar (http://www.mwmtb.com/extcalender2/calendar.php) or the club forum (http://forums.farkin.net/forumdisplay.php?f=64), we usually have a couple a month, but unusually there are none scheduled at the moment, check back soon.

[Delmar]

1) Would you like to do regular dirt crits in Sydney?
Yep
2) How often would you attend (in reality, not fantasy land)?
fortnight
3) Which evening?
Wed/thu/sat arvo
3) Where would be a good location? a) Homebush b) St Ives c) Sydney Park - St Peters. d) got a better idea?
Homebush, menai?
4) How much would you pay per week to race (not including day licence)?
$10
5) There would probably be prizes for series winners, say once every 10 races but are individual race prizes that big a deal or would you prefer cheap post race food/BBQ/beer for all?
BBQ all the way!

[Snozza]

Having read up on what's going on down Mexico way (Melbourne) it kinda shits me that there's about 3 regular short track/dirt crit type events happening every week there but nuthin' in the great metropolis that is Sydney.
SO, how 'bout we do some research here and feed the results to local clubs or a promoter and see if it's worth getting this to happen.
Lets do this thing, Pants.:)

Good Luck Mr Pants, You need someone super motivated to see it through and someone who is consistent, one of the good no make that great things about the FGP Kona Dirt Crits ist that you know that they are on, EVERY Thursday all year round.

It's not easy, but someone had to do it!

Giving away Mavic Wheels, Marzocchi Forks, Cateye Helmets etc is always a good incentive though!

Why don't you just move down to Melbourne then you really could start to live life!?

FGP events... probably the best MTB crits in the World...

Cheers,
Snozza

[Sleeman]

Gee Snozza, you're not very biasd:rolleyes:

But what you've said is exactly true.

No matter what time of year it is, you know that if you want to go for a ride on a thursday night after work, there is always Snozza's dirt crits running.

And on the topic of running crits on a weekend so you have light...

How many people would want to travel to a MTB race on a weekend, only to have it all finish in half an hour, you may as well ride a standard XC race. As far as I can see, mid week is the only time that Crits will be successful, and successful they are, as Snozza has shown. And with the growing popularity of the 12 and 24hr races, most people these days have some form of lighting for their bike, and that is all you really need, as someone has already said.

Now I don't really know Sydney that well, but as far as locations go, the closer to the CBD the better. You don't need proper MTB trails to hold a dirt crit. The Kona crits are held in a park under the Westgate, and Mallachi Moxon used to run crits in the bushes around an old dirt carpark just around the corner from Crown Casino. So the terrain is not as important as the location.

Well that's what I think... :o

[sgc7of7]

1) Would you like to do regular dirt crits in Sydney?
Absolutely

2) How often would you attend (in reality, not fantasy land)?
If it were close to me, once a week or fortnight, if it's too far away, once a month if at all.

3) Which evening?
Any day through the week.

3) Where would be a good location? a) Homebush b) St Ives c) Sydney Park - St Peters. d) got a better idea?
Option C works best for me, anything around Homebush or St Ives would mean that I probably couldn't make it, and it's a little too far to travel for a short race. Another option may be Centenial Park, probably wouldn't be able to do it there though....

4) How much would you pay per week to race (not including day licence)?
No more than $10 if it's weekly/fortnightly.

5) There would probably be prizes for series winners, say once every 10 races but are individual race prizes that big a deal or would you prefer cheap post race food/BBQ/beer for all?
None of this would make the decision for me, I'd just love to have a midweek hitout close to home, but to answer the question...umm, BBQ.