Who has the right of way here? [Archive]

arpit

01-06-2006, 09:07 AM

G'day mate!
As I understand it, the rider going downhill should give way to the rider going uphill, in cross country.

That said, when riding uphill, I ttend to give way to riders going downhill because

1. I appreciate how much fun it is to travel downhill at speed

2. I appreciate that I am more maneuverable at low speed than they are at high speed

3. I'd rather not be splattered over the trail than be in the right.

thecat

01-06-2006, 09:09 AM

As me old grand dad use to say "Give way to the left, give way to the right. Give way to any bastard who wants it, what's the rush."

In other words be courtious to all. whether you are riding up or down pull off to the side and say g'day. It's not like it's going to ruin your day.

splunk

01-06-2006, 09:09 AM

I usually go by who has the bigger crew. it make sense that 2 riders give way to 4 riders.

But I heard that the "official" rule is that downhillers give way to uphillers. Do not know why, but I will guess that it is easier for a downhiller to get going again after a stop than the uphillers.

scblack

01-06-2006, 09:10 AM

I'd say whoever is biggest gets the right of way.:)

Carlin

01-06-2006, 09:12 AM

It is more difficult to get started again once you stall riding up a hill, and it is more difficult to change lines. The downhill rider should have more options on lines, stopping and starting. So therefore the downhill rider should giveway to the rider traveling uphill.

Not a hard and fast rule, it is down to common courtesy really.

toodles

01-06-2006, 09:14 AM

But I heard that the "official" rule is that downhillers give way to uphillers. Do not know why, but I will guess that it is easier for a downhiller to get going again after a stop than the uphillers.

Yeah the official ruling thingo is that DHers give way to uphill riders because it's easier for the DHers to gain momentum again.

In reality though, best not to tempt fate when confronted with 100kgs of rider and sled hurtling towards you at 50kph.

arpit

01-06-2006, 09:17 AM

In reality though, best not to tempt fate when confronted with 100kgs of rider and sled hurtling towards you at 50kph.

Agreed. Give way rules are not useful unless they are known AND respected by the majority. I don't believe either are the case.
In a high level race the rules may well be known, but I imagine in that scenario, all riders would be travelling the same way.

thecat

01-06-2006, 09:22 AM

Yeah the official ruling thingo .

There is no official rule.

Misplaced

01-06-2006, 09:25 AM

I'm asking this question here instead of in the general forums (or anywhere else on Farkin), so I get the least biased opinions...

Downhill/Uphill singletrack: Do the uphill riders give way to downhill riders or is it the other way around?

In a race (as in practising) or general riding situation?

Drizz

01-06-2006, 10:07 AM

In a race (as in practising) or general riding situation?

Huh? What type of racing where everyone is not travelling in the same direction?:confused: Demolition Derby? :D

alexb618

01-06-2006, 10:12 AM

i would say you should always give way to someone going downhill

mind you when this has happened to me in the past usually everyone just stops to work out who wants to let who through

being polite is rule #1

Techno Destructo

01-06-2006, 10:35 AM

In a race (as in practising) or general riding situation?
Huh? What type of racing where everyone is not travelling in the same direction?:confused: Demolition Derby? :D

LOL! That put a smile on my face!

Let's see if the context changes anything...

This is an XC track, that is primarily ridden in one direction. The track is about one meter wide. The downhill riders are going in the "preferred" direction for this trail, while the uphill riders are doing the trail backwards. There are more uphill riders than the downhill riders.

Does this change things?

Misplaced

01-06-2006, 10:37 AM

thecat

01-06-2006, 10:45 AM

LOL! That put a smile on my face!

Let's see if the context changes anything...

This is an XC track, that is primarily ridden in one direction. The track is about one meter wide. The downhill riders are going in the "preferred" direction for this trail, while the uphill riders are doing the trail backwards. There are more uphill riders than the downhill riders.

Does this change things?

No it doesn't. All riders should stop and say g'day.

Now each and every situation will be different. Is there room to move to the side and if so who had the best opportunity to get out of the way.

Now who said riding down was the "prefered way" and riding up was "backwards." if you want road rules ride on the road. If not just be courtious and do what seems best at the time.

Techno Destructo

01-06-2006, 10:49 AM

Now who said riding down was the "prefered way" and riding up was "backwards." if you want road rules ride on the road.
True, but surely you can't deny that there are trails that are FAR more condusive to ride in one direction than in the other (such as trails that have unrideable obstacles (such as tall ledges) in one direction, but can be ridden in the other direction completely without needing to stop or put a foot down...)

ebuk

01-06-2006, 11:00 AM

I don't think there are "rules" to it. Just a courtesy thing. Being a courteous rider I would stop if I was on the uphill (unless I see they are taking a different line to me that has >1 metre between us, ie firetrail). If I was on the downhill I would also slow right down in case they didn't give way to me.

Atomikryder

01-06-2006, 11:47 AM

well if your slogging it out up a hill you don't want to have to stop for someone who is coming down, it is alot easier to start when going downhill.:cool:

freeride_sweet

01-06-2006, 11:49 AM

but how many tracks are ridden both ways, 9/10 tracks are ridden one way, and if someone coming downhill the wrong way really shouldn't be riding the track anyway,

but in saying that, if you see a great dh part off a track your going to ride down it, the dher should give way, but i'd rather not take my chances, someone coming dh is going to be better off at the end of it. if you both happen to stop well you can both have a debate about it:p, but other than that look out for your self

ego

01-06-2006, 11:53 AM

but how many tracks are ridden both ways,

A lot. Sure DH tracks are pretty one way but we are in Xc forum and I think you'll find a lot of XC tracks are just a s fun in either direction.

liamo

01-06-2006, 11:59 AM

If I'm riding I would give way to the rider going uphill. I don't think it's a right of way thing nor is it any kind of 'rule'. It's just how I ride.

All I know is that it's easy to squeeze on the brakes a bit more and restart, so what if you lose a bit of momentum? Restarting on an uphill can be the difference between walking it or not and I hate walking up a perfectly ridable hill:rolleyes:

I have noticed a lot of riders tend to stop climbing and pull aside at the first sign of people coming downhill to let them pass, so obviously not everyone agrees with me. Cat's suggestion is obviously best practice but I'm probably not as friendly as him :p

Liam

liamo

01-06-2006, 12:01 PM

9/10 tracks are ridden one way, and if someone coming downhill the wrong way really shouldn't be riding the track anyway

I can't believe people think that way. Makes me sad :(

Liam

toodles

01-06-2006, 12:29 PM

There is no official rule.

Ok my bad... the IMBA guideline or UCI thingo that used to get sent out with our licences recommended that give way rule.

morgs

01-06-2006, 12:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by freeride_sweet
9/10 tracks are ridden one way, and if someone coming downhill the wrong way really shouldn't be riding the track anyway

I can't believe people think that way. Makes me sad
Liam

Sparrow Hill is a good case in point, out the back near the dam runs you tend to get looked down apon if you ride it clockwise. Even to the extent of people trying to ride through you. Why, because they're to brainless to try riding with a bit of variety instead of folowing race arrows?

morgs

Turner_rider

01-06-2006, 01:44 PM

Downhill/Uphill singletrack: Do the uphill riders give way to downhill riders or is it the other way around?

In years gone by in the road sense on a narrow dirt road vehicles travelling downhill had to give way to those coming up, on the basis that those going down could alway use gravity to to restart, whereas those coming up could not.

It's hard to say if this has translated to the singletrack mtbing world as a rule of thumb so to speak, as some riders ride downhill with the expectation that everyone will get out of their way as they are pushing to "their" limits - although in most cases those coming down are happy to stop and let those struggling up to go, as well as inform each other of the number of riders coming up and down. So maybe there is an unwritten rule... :)

johnny

01-06-2006, 02:09 PM

General rule, rider uphill has right of way because he's doing it the toughest.

My rule, move out of the way of the dude going downhill, safety first and downhill is much more fun.

Going the opposite way around a heavily used track like Manly damn is stupid if you know the way most people will be riding it. Not because it's out of the ordinary, more so because there are some really fast, tight, windy sections with many blind corners. If some one smacked me head on coming the other way in that section and is a regular user of the track, I'd be inclined to make my frustration known to the rider in very unambiguous terms!

arpit

01-06-2006, 02:21 PM

Carlin

01-06-2006, 03:57 PM

The singletrack descent behind the houses is actually a really fun climb. Link it up with the pipeline and it is a great way to get to Red Hill.

That being said when riding in "reverse" on that track I am a little more careful than I normally would be.

johnny

01-06-2006, 04:03 PM

Johnny, Interesting that you say that. They person going the 'wrong' way would have a powerful argument that they were just following the arrows on all the rocks, would they not? Further, the council maps seem to tell you to go the wrong way too....

I know I did it in reverse the first time I tried it. I encountered riders going the other way on singletrack, but didn't have a problem with them. However, many sections were manifestly unpleasant in reverse.

That said, I do note you qualified your statements by only referring to regular users of the track. Further, my arguments really would only apply to newbies.Can't say I've ever notoced the arrows or used council guides myself. As for new users, everyone's got to learn somehow, no issues with that. Most sections would be fine IMO, but there are definately some corners that I really like tearing around and would be a little concerned about head ons. It's really only the tight sections that matter.

*Runs off to design "bull bar for Bikes".........

Bodin

01-06-2006, 04:40 PM

I remember reading an American mag a while ago that published a set of "unofficial rules of the trail" that supprted the "downhill gives way to uphill" philosophy.

I understand the reasons why, which many have already stated, but I tend to be a bit too embarrassed in front of a rider coming downhill to obstinately enforce this "rule", as I personally don't like having my downhill runs interrupted and I'd hope others out on the trail can extend the same courtesy to me.

The reality is that I'm prepared to stop in any situation apart from a race and I think pretty much everyone who's posted here seems to be of the same opinion, but to specifically answer the original question, the answer I've been made aware of is that uphill gets r.o.w.

Do you reckon the people that enforce the uphill thing would give you their last spare tube in the middle of a field of thorns? That's the other thing you're s'posed to do if you wanna be a truly politically correct trail rider... oh, and of course we never skid our rear tyre, either, now, do we?

Now I'm just ranting. Shut up, Bodin.

johnny

01-06-2006, 04:44 PM

I understand the reasons why, which many have already stated, but I tend to be a bit too embarrassed in front of a rider coming downhill to obstinately enforce this "rule", as I personally don't like having my downhill runs interrupted and I'd hope others out on the trail can extend the same courtesy to me.Agree 100%

The reality is that I'm prepared to stop in any situation apart from a race and I think pretty much everyone who's posted here seems to be of the same opinion, but to specifically answer the original question, the answer I've been made aware of is that uphill gets r.o.w.I agree with that answer 100% too.

Now I'm just ranting. Shut up, Bodin.3 out of 3 bodie! :p

Robb

01-06-2006, 05:01 PM

Who ever can grab a nearby tree first is the one who gives way so they dont have to unclipp/put a foot down :)

I agree tho, i am never in too much of a rush not to yield way to another rider (after all i go out to ride to relax), and am happy to give way to someone going up or down a hill.
Its kinda annoying having to give way to people while you are tearing down a hill about to hit a jump or something.

gustfront

01-06-2006, 05:10 PM

Most times I've been confronted by a rider barrelling downhill I am moving too slowly to take evasive action. (yeah, OK, I suck uphill). So regardless of the rules, it's more practical for the downhill rider to change lines as they have the momentum and speed to do it. If the downhill rider waited for the uphill rider to get out of the way he would usually have to slow right down anyway, so he may as well swerve around him/her.

I often ride Manly dam anti clockwise and the downhill from Wakehurst to the creek is a good case in point. Often when riding up, a downhiller will be on past you within a few seconds of him appearing. Giving way is rarely an option.

Also, while on Manly Dam, a track like Manly Dam is too multi-use to be ridden with arrogant abandon. It's not a race course and shouldn't be ridden like one. Coming around a blind corner on a weekend you are just as likely to come across a family of walkers, an old guy walking his dog or a jogger. You are hardly going to abuse a lady and three kids for walking along the trail. So I would suggest, if you smacked into someone head on after coming around a blind corner, you should take a long hard look at your riding attitude and don't be at all surprised if the dude you smacked happens to hit you with a big law suit. Golden rule, don't take any section faster than you can safely stop within viewable distance.

Having said all that, I've never had a problem riding it anti-clockwise and I do it several times a week as do a handful of other riders. Most riders are courteous and happy to share the trails safely with all users.

johnny

01-06-2006, 05:14 PM

Is Manly Dam a dedicated riding track?

Plus, I think you'll find I was refering to other riders, not walkers.

gustfront

01-06-2006, 05:34 PM

Is Manly Dam a dedicated riding track?

Is that a rhetorical question?

Plus, I think you'll find I was refering to other riders, not walkers.

I can't see it makes any difference. If you are taking care enough to avoid hitting walkers, kids or joggers then you are pretty unlikely to hit a rider unless they are the one riding dangerously.

Bodin

01-06-2006, 05:40 PM

3 out of 3 bodie! :p

My post was going downhill, so I decided to give way. ;)

johnny

01-06-2006, 05:41 PM

I can't see it makes any difference. If you are taking care enough to avoid hitting walkers, kids or joggers then you are pretty unlikely to hit a rider unless they are the one riding dangerously.I think you will find that there is a substantial difference in approach speed of some one riding a bike and some on walking.

I understand what you are saying and agree to a point. As far as I'm aware, MAnly Dam is a dedicated riding track (please correct me if I am wrong), so shouldn't the walkers look out for us for a change? Or do we play second fiddle to walkers all the time? Secondly, not everyone is content with a casual Sunday pedal when they ride. Many of us are training for races, upping fitness levels and attempting to challenge ourselves.

I guess most of my argument hinges on whether Manly Dam is a dedicated bike track or not.

*Edit, why would that question be rhetorical?

arpit

01-06-2006, 05:53 PM

Johnny, I too was unsure about whether your question was rhetorical.

I agree entirely with your argument in regards to approach speeds.
In addition, walkers are very maneuverable. A while back I was riding down the high speed section of singletrack, quite irresponsibly, and oblivious to the possibility that there might be walkers on the track. I went around a blind corner, and found myself a metre or 2 away from a walker. I slammed on my brakes and came to a stop right next to him, with a sound like a truck stopping. HE jumped into the bushes. He accepted my apologies. If that had been a rider who was riding at walking speed, there would have been a very low speed collision, because of decreased maneuverability. If the rider had been riding at a decent pace, we would both have been injured.

No it is not a dedicated riding track.
We play second fiddle to walkers pretty much anywhere except on bike only paths or bike lanes. That said, we sit higher than walkers, move faster than them, and exhibit none of the traditional body signs to indicate intentions to change direction. We often hide behind helmets and sunglasses. We ride large bikes with fat knobby tyres and oversized tubing. We sometimes wear armour similarly styled to police riot gear.
Most walkers will give way out of a reflex action to stay alive. That said, exploiting it would be, by definition, terrorism.

danTM

01-06-2006, 06:23 PM

I think you will find that there is a substantial difference in approach speed of some one riding a bike and some on walking.

I understand what you are saying and agree to a point. As far as I'm aware, MAnly Dam is a dedicated riding track (please correct me if I am wrong), so shouldn't the walkers look out for us for a change? Or do we play second fiddle to walkers all the time? Secondly, not everyone is content with a casual Sunday pedal when they ride. Many of us are training for races, upping fitness levels and attempting to challenge ourselves.

I guess most of my argument hinges on whether Manly Dam is a dedicated bike track or not.

*Edit, why would that question be rhetorical?
I belive manly dam is a shared trail with walkers, otherwise how would they get to the walking tracks that branch off? :p

I generally give way to bikes and walkers (slow down) unless I am racing or testing how fast I can do a lap.

The thing that really shits me though is people when I am riding my SS and going up a hill and they are off walking on there 27 speed bike and they don't move off the trail when they have seen me GRRRRRRRRR........

arpit

01-06-2006, 06:35 PM

The thing that really shits me though is people when I am riding my SS and going up a hill and they are off walking on there 27 speed bike and they don't move off the trail when they have seen me GRRRRRRRRR........
The following does not neccessarily represent my point of view. It might. It might not. I am inserting it for the purposes of stimulating discussion.

The fact that they are walking a bike does not change the fact that they are a walker, and that you much give way to them. Giving way = slowing down or stopping so as to prevent a collision.

It may be impolite for them not to move slightly, however:
There is signage throughout the track indicating that bike riders should give way to walkers.
Assuming you have ridden the track before, and seen those signs, you are riding the track accepting the rules and conditions of use.
If those conditions/suggestions of use displease you, your first point of call should be :
http://www.warringah.nsw.gov.au/council_directory.htm
Till you have secured a change in signage, so that everyone is aware of the modified '''terms of use''' you should refrain from using the track.

Techno Destructo

01-06-2006, 06:36 PM

Well, opinion seems to overwhelming lean towards uphill riders having right of way.

ONE last factor that may affect the opinion:

What if the riders, going uphill on the singletrack, are walking their bikes?

Does that negate anything? Should THEY be the ones to move off the trail?

gustfront

01-06-2006, 06:42 PM

I assumed it was rhetorical because I assumed it was obvious that it is a shared trail;

1. There are signs at several points that say it's a shared trail (asking riders to give way to walkers).
2. There are several signs that give distances and walking times to various destinations around the park.
3. There are paths leading off the main trail that are clearly marked "walkers only" - so walkers must also be expected to be using the main trail.

Anyway, clearly some riders don't appreciate it's a shared trail so perhaps the park rangers should put up some reminders. Clashes between riders and non-riders could threaten the rideabilty of park so this is something we should be conscious of when riding here.

Edit: Sorry about the repetitive, post. The other posts went up while I writing mine (and farnarkling around the house).

sockman

01-06-2006, 06:43 PM

if they are walking its a definate right of way for the dh rider, at any dh race(not sure bout xc) if somone is walking up the track they must give way

arpit

01-06-2006, 06:43 PM

What if the riders, going uphill on the singletrack, are walking their bikes?

According to the road rules, a person who is walking their bike is a pedestrian, and must follow different rules. There are different rules for giving way to pedestrians too.

I acknowledge that off road tracks are not roads, and that the legal applicability of the road rules is dubious. However, the reasoning makes sense, and I beleive a walker with a bike is a walker nonetheless, nomatter where they are.

Assuming we are on a track where bike riders must give way to walkers :
Suppose for a second that walkers with bikes SHOULD give way to riders coming downhill. Then, it would follow, that custody of a bicycle would result in a waiving of one's rights. IT would only make sense to apply this to other areas of life too. Walkers wheeling bikes across zebra crossings should then give way to road traffic. This would be unacceptable. It makes sense to then conclude that mere custody of a bicycle does not change rules about giving way.

danTM

01-06-2006, 07:02 PM

The following does not neccessarily represent my point of view. It might. It might not. I am inserting it for the purposes of stimulating discussion.

The fact that they are walking a bike does not change the fact that they are a walker, and that you much give way to them. Giving way = slowing down or stopping so as to prevent a collision.

It may be impolite for them not to move slightly, however:
There is signage throughout the track indicating that bike riders should give way to walkers.
Assuming you have ridden the track before, and seen those signs, you are riding the track accepting the rules and conditions of use.
If those conditions/suggestions of use displease you, your first point of call should be :
http://www.warringah.nsw.gov.au/council_directory.htm
Till you have secured a change in signage, so that everyone is aware of the modified '''terms of use''' you should refrain from using the track.
I am not sure if you have noticed, I said I was riding up a hill, since they have seen me and they are off walking there bikes I think it is courtesy to move out of the way of riders coming up the hill when you are walking due to the fact that there is no real momentum required when you are walking and stopping your bike on an off road hill really stints your momentum if you are riding

Bodin

01-06-2006, 07:06 PM

geez man calm down

I think he's being pretty calm...

danTM

01-06-2006, 07:06 PM

I think he's being pretty calm...
I edited that when I saw the start of the post, I think that this:The following does not neccessarily represent my point of view. It might. It might not. I am inserting it for the purposes of stimulating discussion.should go in here http://forums.farkin.net/showthread.php?t=55465 as a farkin doublespeak of "I want to stir some shit on Farkin":p

EDIT: This was not intended as a flame on you arpit just a joke :P

fatnold

01-06-2006, 08:19 PM

if i see someone coming the other way first i show courtesy first. either direction.
if i don't see them i hope they see me and offer the same courtesy.

it takes no time to move off the track and 9 times out of 10 you can stay clipped in and just plough through whatever is off to the side of the track anyway.

having a stand off out on the trails is just being way uptight. i couldn't give a rats if i give way or the other guy gets out of the way as long as i don't hit the other rider. i'm not crashing to exercise my right of way. if i see a potential crash coming i'll get out of the way.

that's what i hate about those recalcitrant fucking trees that insist on standing their ground. lol.

johnny

02-06-2006, 08:53 AM

JNo it is not a dedicated riding track.

I belive manly dam is a shared trail with walkers
Well, that kind of screws my whole argument then doesn't it.......:o

Drizz

02-06-2006, 09:30 AM

I understand what you are saying and agree to a point. As far as I'm aware, MAnly Dam is a dedicated riding track (please correct me if I am wrong), so shouldn't the walkers look out for us for a change? Or do we play second fiddle to walkers all the time? Secondly, not everyone is content with a casual Sunday pedal when they ride. Many of us are training for races, upping fitness levels and attempting to challenge ourselves.

*Not in reference to Manly Dam in particular.

I understand your viewpoint. As a MTBer I would like my ride to have as little interruption as possible and hence I sympathise your view that walkers should be on the lookout for MTBers on dedicated MTB tracks. (Which I can't think of one in Sydney BTW)

However walkers tended to suffer from wanderlust and go anywhere to everywhere and most will not be able to tell the difference between a MTB track and a walking trail. So even if its their *fault* that they got axe on the trail, us MTBers are the one that will be paying for the consequences and lose access to trails. Afterall, council and NPWS see walkers as the majority and MTBers are the one that lives on the fringe.

I guess my point is always give way to walkers, doesn't matter how "right" you are.... :(

DaGonz

03-06-2006, 05:19 PM

If I'm riding I would give way to the rider going uphill. I don't think it's a right of way thing nor is it any kind of 'rule'. It's just how I ride.

I know for myself if it's tough going, I will be concentrating far more about keeping things moving and less about some nutter heading towards me. Moreover, ever tried looking up a steep hill far enough to see someone heading towards you vs being at the top of the hill and looking down?

having said that, if it is a shared trail i'll try and climb outside the fast downhill line where I can. I would still expect people to slow down to a reasonable pace as they pass you.

*shrug*

... and I hate walking up a perfectly ridable hill:rolleyes:

If only to stop at the top, gasping for oxygen :)

Cheers
Gonz

JohnJohn

03-06-2006, 05:47 PM

I'm not sure about the underpinnings of Australian road rules, but in my native UK, as a cop friend of mine used to say "you never have right of way; you *might* *sometimes* have priority." Despite what people believe, there's no such thing as 'right of way', which stops people from using it as an excuse to do something egregiously stupid and cause a crash.

I think this language better expresses the fuzziness of the situation. I believe an uphill rider should have priority, for all the reasons that have been discussed, and on the roads in the Alps, for example, the uphill vehicle has priority if the road is narrow.

But there are going to be situations where it's just not practical to assert your priority. In that case you apply courtesy and sense. It's hardly rocket surgery.

arpit

03-06-2006, 05:56 PM

From the explanatory note for the Australian Road Rules :
Obligation to “give way”
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/viewtop/inforce/subordleg+arr+1999+FIRST+0+N/?autoquery=(FragmentSGML%3D((%22right%20of%20way%2 2)))%20AND%20((RecordType%3D%22ACTFRAG%22%20and%20 Repealed%3D%22N%22)%20OR%20(RecordType%3D%22SRFRAG %22%20and%20Repealed%3D%22N%22))&dq=Document%20Types%3D%22Acts,%20Regs%22,%20Exact% 20Phrase%3D%22right%20of%20way%22,%20Search%20In%3 D%22Text%22&fullquery=(((%22right%20of%20way%22)))
There are a number of rules requiring a driver to give way to another driver or a pedestrian. However, under the Rules the other driver or pedestrian does not have a “right” of way. Indeed, in some situations, a number of drivers may be required to give way to each other, eg at an intersection with a stop sign or give way sign on more than 1 of the intersecting roads. Similarly, although a driver may be required to give way to a pedestrian, the pedestrian is required under rule 236 (1) not to cause a traffic hazard by moving into the driver’s path.

However, do note that the explanatory note is not technically part of the Australian Road rules

How I interpret this :
In an accident, although one party may have complied with all relevant road rules, they still may be found to be negligent or contributorily negligent.

It's important to realise that where accidents can be avoided, you have a moral, and less importantly, legal obligation to attempt to avoid them.
Its important to realise that its always better not to be injured than to be right.

Sleeman

03-06-2006, 08:17 PM

Whoah!, this topic is getting busy...

But I've always gone by the theory that the rider climbing has right of way, however, that depends on the situation. the guy coming down the hill may not always be able to give way, due to speed or gradient etc.

But most of the time, it all comes down to common sense, no need to get into a fight while out riding over who has right of way.

Race tracks though, are another matter entirely. In this instance it is the rider riding the track in the "right" direction that has right of way. But I would like to discourage most people from riding race courses in the reverse direction. I know it makes a nice change, but it also ruins a course.

Ever noticed how most fast downhills end up with braking ruts in them? Well try having them appear in previously smooth, rideable climbs... :rolleyes:

HydroLick_Action

03-07-2006, 04:54 PM

Ha ha yeah. I think I would go with gravity winning on this one. I wouldn't wanna try my luck having another opinion and meet a dhiller flying down. ouch!

Dumbellina

03-07-2006, 04:59 PM

In an accident, although one party may have complied with all relevant road rules, they still may be found to be negligent or contributorily negligent.

That is why I loved torts law, it was infinitely logical.

Negligence is based on someone breaching their duty of care to others and that the breach injured another person (or their property). What is the "duty of care" and how do you know if you have breached it? Ask a "reasonable person" they can tell you the extent of your duty, that is the standard of care expected. Who is a reasonable person? According to Lord Denning MR, "the man on the Clapham omnibus", but in NSW law circles it is generally referred to as your average Daily Tele reader. This is why negligence is so illogical.

Refreshinglygood

03-07-2006, 05:53 PM

I reckon it is a hell of a lot harder to get going again if your climbing. Dh, all you have to do is get rolling again, looseing momentum on a climb can be the end of the climb in certain sections.

Sorry to ruin your fastest time ever down the hill, but I would say give me a go on the climb otherwise I might have to push the rest of the way.

Given that, I usually give way to every one, although it's surprising how many riders these days have the screw you, I'm going through attitude.

k3n!f

04-07-2006, 03:08 PM

Give way to climbers. Respect the fact that they are doing it a lot tougher than descenders and that its a lot harder to get started.

Refreshinglygood

04-07-2006, 04:07 PM

I'm with you brother

Topple's

04-07-2006, 08:47 PM

IMO
The person walking their bike should always give way.
On a single line uphill the DH should give priority most of the time
If riding up around a blind corner i try to ride well off the line where possible.

In reality i decide as the situation arises and try to be courtious..

Nothing annoys me more than motorbikes coming dh that dont give way, i think they're Pricks.