Places to ride on Google Earth

[hubbie]

Hey,
I'm thinking of starting a thread that people can all upload their placemarks from google earth, which contain good places to ride or riding related places (IE shops, or food spots to dine at while riding). Of course posting of private riding spots (that arent yours) will not be tolerated (I suggest you maybe have a separate folder for private track marks on your computer so they arent accidentally posted), but i think it has the potential to become a huge information base for if you want somewhere new to ride.

I'd say, if people make placemarks people already have marked, that isnt a problem, as people will decide which placemark to keep (depending on accuracy and information in description. Remember skatepark info can be found at http://skateboard.com.au/fusebox/index.cfm?smithgrind=search, so if you put the link in the description that'd be great). Once placemarks are made, you can right-click the folder they are in and select save as. THis file can then be uploaded to share with the community

THat's the general outlines of it, (rest or rules will come when it happens) but i'm wondering where this thread should go. I dont think its worthy of Off-topic, but maybe general MTB, trail building, or watering hole. what do you guys think?

[hubbie]

any ideas??

[t]

The Ideas is known as a mash up and Farkin is probably as good a place as any to keep Aussie trail info.

have a read about Mapping Mash up's here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mashup_%28web_application_hybrid%29) and Google Maps API here (http://www.google.com/apis/maps/)

I've been thinking about the posibilities of it for a while, but google has recently overlayed street maps for much of Australia so it's probably a good time to start.

[norco_maniac]

thats a great idea! exept people might not want people to ride their track or jumps that they have spent all their time making. it could work though

[arpit]

except people might not want people to ride their track or jumps that they have spent all their time making. it could work though

Ah....... I don't really buy that argument....
Types of trails:

1.officially constructed trails in public space, or in in closed land where there is an implied right/licence of entry and use.
eg. Fire trails in a national park, the downhill track at ourimbah

2.Unofficially constructed tracks in a public space which may be inclosed land with an implied licence for the public to use. eg. on council owned bushland.
.
3. Officially/unofficially constructed tracks in in closed lands where there is no implied licence for use . eg. a trail built on a farm

There is absolutely no reason not to publish the location of the first group of trails.

In regards to the second group of trails:
Arguments against publishing locations:
- It might encourage people to ride unauthorized tracks
- The council/state forest may perceive the sport of MTB riding in a poor light when they see riders building unauthorized tracks
- It might lead to these tracks being destroyed sooner

Counterarguments and arguments
- In general, It won't be illegal for people to ride unauthorized tracks. However, there may be specific laws preventing this in individual cases. An example would be in a national park. The onus is on the rider to make sure they are riding legally. If that onus were shifted onto moderators, it would burden them excessively. If the burden were to be put onto people submitting tracks, it would lead to many legally constructed or legal -to-ride not being submitted, as the potential submitter might not know the law, and may choose to play on the safe side.

- I submit that the council, and to a lesser extent, the state forestry people, are not so naive as to type mtbers Ina bad light simply because unauthorized tracks are being built. I believe this is a case of 'the squeaky wheel gets the grease'. The council will realise, with the help of negotiations with clubs, that riders desperately need an area to ride which caters for a variety of different skill levels. For example, Ku-ring-gai council found numerous illegally constructed bike tracks on their land. They destroyed some repeatedly, like the one on Warrimoo road (which has been totally destroyed), but found that people kept building them. They realise that repeated destruction of tracks is futile, and are currently investigating options for providing facility for mountain bike riders.

- Tracks being destroyed is life. If people want to construct tracks on public land, they need to accept that it will be used by the public. They also need to accept that if it is unauthorized, it will eventually be destroyed by the landowner.

- I think it's important that the locations of these tracks be published because
1. In many cases they won't be off limits for riding
2. It's important not to keep the mtb community overly secretive.

3. It's important not to let the belief that if One were to construct a trail on land that was not theirs, they still somehow own it survive.

In regards to the third group of trails, I agree these should not be on the site. If someone were to use them without authorisation, it would, in ALL cases, be criminal trespass.
Regards,
A very idealistic Arpit

[t]

I thought about it some more, and i think there is great oportunity for a site that lets you scope out new places to ride, I know that particularly with urban rides i enjoy following someone else around their favourite spots because i'll always find a few new places. I'd love to be able to fire up "Farkin Maps" and scope out some new locations to hit up on a wednesday night ride.

Here's some things I think need to be figured out to make it a usable and intuative site, throw in any ideas and if it begins to look fesiable mabey Scott can open up beta site for us.

Break locations/routes down into riding styles, i'm not interested in where Roadies buy coffee or good comuting routes so the option to hide that info would stop the maps getting cluttered.

List of catogries - locations/routes could co exist in multiple catogories if appropriate.

- Urban riding locations; skate parks, wall rides, drops, stair gaps, etc.
- XC trails; bike paths may need to be included as they often form links between the single track, mabey colour code the tracks.
- DH/FR tracks; help find that elusive track
- Comuting routes; so you know which streets are quiet, which ones are dangerous and help avoid the hills.
- Food; places where you can buy/eat food and easily keep an eye on your bike
- Shops; for that emergency repair or if you need directions.

Location Profiles - click on the skate park on the map to get a Photo and comment on the location, when it's busy, when the light are on, etc. I don't think it would take long to get a lot of pictures with the cameras that are built into phones these days. and it helps bridge the gap between a map and the real world.

From a Location Profile as an alternative to jumping back to the map, a buton to show a list, with photos, of nearby places of intrest.

[arpit]

Great ideas T,
guys, check
www.bikely.com
to see something similar.

[hubbie]

thats a great idea! exept people might not want people to ride their track or jumps that they have spent all their time making. it could work though

That's why i said that private/illegal tracks will not be tolerated, and if someone finds that it is illegal, it will be removed

Thanks for all the input guys. T, sounds like you've got a bunch of great ideas for this. It could really be successful i think.

[t]

Great ideas T,
guys, check
www.bikely.com
to see something similar.

Yeh i had a look at this a while ago, what I didn't like was that it's not much help if someone doesn't already travel a similar route to what your looking for but it gives you an idea what's capable.

so is anyone that can program in java going to put their hand up?

*edit; i found this page (http://www.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/overlay.html) it's a demo of the default Google maps API, it looks pretty Ideal

[hubbie]

any more ideas or input from Scott?

[shmeado]

:eek: thats alot of writing...

i think it would be a good idea if people could help other riders out. cos you never know if anyone lives near a track and hasn't riden it and the next closest thing is like an hour away.

my 2 cents.

[wombat]

Ah....... I don't really buy that argument....
I think you'll find there's a lot more to that debate than legal definitions.
Sadly, many trails (mtb and DJ) suffer from abuse and damage at the hands of riders who don't respect the work that the locals have put into them. I can't imagine that it's a pleasent feeling when you find that the lips you spent hours carving in the rain yesterday have been trashed by some dimwit who rode them before they were set; someone who has never lifted a shovel to help build the trails and will most likely never come back and do so in the future.

There might not be anything about trail etiquette in legal textbooks, but that doesn't mean that it's not an issue that riders should be well aware of.

[demo man]

if you want to do the work mate, go for it.

i doubt you will get any help from anyone else though.

put it in General, i'd say.

[t]

Ok... I've been in Google earth sussing a few things out, in order to hack something out using existing systems that people are acustomed to using.

my new watered down idea goes pretty well along the lines of what Hubbie had in his first post.

There are 3 elements/interfaces to this idea, Google Earth, a Special Forum probably called Farkin Maps, and a second wiki dedicated to storing Photos and information on the locations.

This is how i imagine it working

within the special forum someone will start a thread and thereby they have put their hand up to manage a place marks folder, I'll volunteer right now to manage Melbourne Street/Skate Parks, I'll use this as an example.

I'll publish my melbourne_urban.kmz file with all the locations I know. then you can download the file and open it in Google Earth. This is to be a master copy, so you shouldnt edit it, instead add any new place marks into a new folder, call it what ever you like, then save that folder as stp-kids-riding-spots.kmz or what ever you have named it. Add a post to my thread, with your file attached, saying here's some more location. I'll download your locations, insert them into the melbourne_urban.kmz master copy, then I'll update the first post with the latest version.

When you are adding placemarks, you can include a hyperlink, this is where the second wiki comes into it, photos and comments on the location can be kept in the wiki, where they can be edited by anyone. This also allows for links to nearby locations which can be included down the bottom.

To start compilling place marks, all we need is a special forum and we need to be able to attach .kmz files up to about about 500k

There is no rush on the wiki as short comments can be included in the placemark, if it is posible to use the Fiki that's even better.

[hubbie]

yeah, is it worth starting a new forum page, similar to "meet the farkers" and in there, there will be threads like Melbourne Urban, Melbourne DH/FR, Sydney Urban, Sydney DH/FR. We will try and keep threads to a minimum, so that it isn't cluttered. Maybe havea few threads with a designated owner, ie. Me or T for example, and if someone wants to Add Alice Springs etc, as they are one of a fewriders on farkin from there, they PM admin or Mods and ask for permission to add an Alice SpringsThread.

I'll start work on some placemarks when i have a chance

[t]

It's probably important to get some naming conventions happening early, so we don't have to go back and rename all the place marks, I rememer doing that with my MP3 collection back in the 90's an di don't want to do anything like that.

My placemarks so far follow this style;

Wall Ride - State library (Crn Swanston St & Lonsdale St)
Trials - Museum / I-Max (There is heaps of good trials and technical street riding in between the Museum, I-Max and Exhebition Buildings)
Skate park - Riverside
Wall Ride - Lygon St Projects

The text in brackets is in the Description.

I don't think it'll hurt to have a fair few threads, we don't want to burn out the people who are compiling the place marks back into the master files. I'll happily do Melbourne Urban because im keen to see all these locations, but i don't want to have to look after too big an area.

[hubbie]

yeah, that's a good layout T. I'd be happy to do Sydney DH/FR, but i have to check up about whether certain tracks should be labelled because of Legality. I'd love to do Urban Aswell, but i don't know all the good spots in Sydney, i'm sure there's someone who's more appropriate, like a City Ride regular. I'll add what i can however.

SO far i have these categories:
Sydney Urban
Sydney DH/FR
Sydney DJ/BMX/4X

I decided that DJ, 4X and BMX are probably appropriate to go together. I'm sure we could do an XC if we wanted aswell.

I've got it formatted now like yours ie.
Huck to flat 7step - Mona Vale Library(Between Pittwater Road - Park St. For the 13yr old squid in all of us. Manualling down them is a fun alternative!)

[t]

If your administeing the data set and something gets in there that shouldn't be people can ask you to remove it.

with locations that are both Street and Trials, I've been naming them based on which one the area is best suited to. and then saying that it's good for both in the description. eg;

Street - Cnr Swanston St & Collins St
(There is a variety of Street and Trials riding here. including a water gap.)

[t]

OMG this thread looks so Emo with our alternating pink and green avitars...

heres a pic of what i've got done so far

[shmeado]

thats nice...

i've seen lewis's (hubbies) google earth thing and it just includes tracks and skate parks i think. Having all those different places to try stuff would be good providing that people dont screw around too much (especially in the cities) and attract un wanted attention

[hubbie]

thats nice...

i've seen lewis's (hubbies) google earth thing and it just includes tracks and skate parks i think.

Dont worry matty, that's not all i'm doing. Already got some bike shops and food spots going in. Got an Assessment this weekend so i gotta focus on that, but after wednesday i'll run rampant!

[hubbie]

heres a pic of what i've got done so far

Hey t, what is the difference between say... street and Wallride, should it maybe be "Street - Wallride" and like "Street - ledge"

I've started adding shops, with a website link, and contact details such as open hours, phone number etc.

[t]

a wallride is just a wallride
Street or Trials means there is lots of ledges and skinnys - like in all the architect designed plazas.

just think what you would tell an out of town rider?

[hubbie]

i've got some time to donate to getting this running now if we want. I saw on www.bmx-forum.com, they have a system similar to this (click the banner at the top of the page), but it is moreso 2D, like a street directory, with a view for other riders, and a view for riding spots. check it out if you want, otherwise we can just do google earth spots.

[t]

i've got some time to donate to getting this running now if we want. I saw on www.bmx-forum.com, they have a system similar to this (click the banner at the top of the page), but it is moreso 2D, like a street directory, with a view for other riders, and a view for riding spots. check it out if you want, otherwise we can just do google earth spots.

I've set it up on the iRide site, http://iridebikes.com.au/ride/ check it out, contribute what ever.

thanks for reminding me :D

[PINT of Stella, mate!]

It's a farkin great idea, tough to maintain but well worthy of a try!

Personally, letting other riders know about the 1 or 2 'secret' spots you have is a small price to pay for getting access to potentially hundreds of other spots. Bike shop locations are a great idea too. Especially once you start venturing out into the 'burbs'

Decent beer gardens would be a go-er as well!

[Mattydv]

I'd be willing to give Newcastle DH/DJ areas a try if you guys need it? :)

[t]

I'd be willing to give Newcastle DH/DJ areas a try if you guys need it? :)

chuck it together and send it to that address on iRide, it'll bounce through to me and I'll publish it.

[spadam]

Awsome idea! I will be forwarding a Google earth file as soon as my exams are over. I have been in to mapping trails for a while now on my google earth and its great to hear others do it too. New places are awsome I really hope this works out.

[e30 guy]

So does this mean we can just submit a few places we know about to our, area co-ordinator as such? Do tracks bashed by pipe builders count as illegal? And what if we know of tracks, stunts but dont know the builders?

[hubbie]

no posting private trails unless they are yours or you have permission to post it

[thecat]

I've been adding motionbased links to track on our clubs site.

If you go to www.ctmbc.net and click on the photos on the right it will take you to the track description. In the track description will be links to motionbased

eg http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/invitation/email/accept.mb?senderPk.pkValue=61097&unitSystemPkValue=1&episodePk.pkValue=1040559



While the map can be exported to Google Earth motionbased has the advantage of Elevation profiles and other cool bits and piece. you can even down load to your GPS and set up a course to test your time against mine....