advertising and bias in the forums

[::RideSiK::]

something that has been getting on my nerves lately is the ammount of advertising going on in the forums. I am a mountain biker from west australia and I frequent the forums on Farkin to recieve and give as good and as unbiast opinions and inforation as possible.

something i have been noticing alot of lately that apears everyone is turning a blind eye to is the ammount of advertising in the forum content. There seems to be a rising ammount of importers drumming up support for their own lines by posting content about it in peoples threads.

especially posts in "what bike" and "what parts" seem to be very vulnerable to these importers preying on often new members. I say pray becasue most times the member asking the advice has no idea that this person represents the company that he/she is suggesting. Some threads in Post Your Ride are just blatent exposure for their products.

im not exactly sure what could be done apart from having a word with the culprits, or at least in their posts they make it CLEAR that they represent whatever company and get paid and make a profit from every sale.


im not sure if other people have noticed or even care...


discuss...

[Scott]

I haven't noticed this myself, that doesn't mean it hasn't been going on. I think this is a fair call, I'll keep a closer eye out of this type of activity and bring it to the mods attention.

[Registered Nutter]

I have noticed this on occasions, best case of it is around christmas.

[I-AM-TEH-FASTEST-11]

yeh, it's true.. but everyone is pretty biased anyway. People are massively biased towards whateer bike they ride, their local track, whatever their LBS sells... worse so if they work there..
where do you draw the line...

[tu plang]

yeh, it's true.. but everyone is pretty biased anyway. People are massively biased towards whateer bike they ride, their local track, whatever their LBS sells... worse so if they work there..
where do you draw the line...

nah imo its pretty clear cut in this case, i know i will make the occasional reference to 'work' etc but i unless you know where I work anyway its meaningless as far as plugging goes, and I guess people will recommend products that their lbs (whether they shop or work there) sells, but thats unavoidable and in the end we should get a pretty even spread.

i think the most blatant cases are the regular (read: seemingly everytime they sell a bike) post your ride threads from certain distributors posting up their customers bikes as they are built/sold.

[I-AM-TEH-FASTEST-11]

yeh fair call.

btw I'm sellling some DVDs, they are really awesome.. my favorite film actually.. you want some?

haha

[Registered Nutter]

although sometimes a bit of bias can be a good thing. i.e. somebody 'brags' about a certain part on the bike which has not broken in a few years etc. then its advertising a part which would appear to be quality.

speaking of which arent specialized bikes the greatest!!!

[tu plang]

yeh fair call.

btw I'm sellling some DVDs, they are really awesome.. my favorite film actually.. you want some?

haha

i'll have 3 :p

i was joking with ridesick earlier about taking a few photos of the shop i work at and sticking it in a thread called My Garage.

[sawtell]

yeah.. i agree while we are at it, why dont we make it you have to blur out the name of every component on your bike when you post it up??... :rolleyes:


Its not like there saying, OI YOU BUY THIS BIKE HERE.. they are just answering peoples questions, showing of their bikes...

Everyones bike no matter who posts it up is nothing buy an expensive rolling billboard....

[rhyno]

i think the most blatant cases are the regular (read: seemingly everytime they sell a bike) post your ride threads from certain distributors posting up their customers bikes as they are built/sold.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there, I don't think half of them are even paying to advertise either. Sure, I import bikes, but i only post the ones i own personally, i also pay for advertising.

[Chalkie]

I haven't noticed this myself...

That in itself is pretty alarming and I think exactly what "::RideSiK::" is getting at. Its not so much the fact that people are doing it, but rather the fact that viewers read the opinions thinking it is coming from a fellow rider. Wether this is the intention of the person posting about their products or not I'm not sure.

yeh, it's true.. but everyone is pretty biased anyway. People are massively biased towards whateer bike they ride, their local track, whatever their LBS sells... worse so if they work there..
where do you draw the line...

As you said biased opinions from people about products they own or tracks they ride cannot really be prevented but self promotion of products can. I know that a lot of distributors have subtitles beneath their username mentioning their position but it's pretty easy to miss. Maybe they need to have clearly labelled signatures, or a rule be enforced that a disclaimer (not sure of the right term to use) notifying viewers must be included when they post a reply to such "what should I buy" "what bike" etc. threads.

[tu plang]

yeah.. i agree while we are at it, why dont we make it you have to blur out the name of every component on your bike when you post it up??... :rolleyes:


Its not like there saying, OI YOU BUY THIS BIKE HERE.. they are just answering peoples questions, showing of their bikes...

Everyones bike no matter who posts it up is nothing buy an expensive rolling billboard....

are you serious? that was all so irrelavent and... wrong. of course there is no issue with people posting up their bikes with brands for all to see, they arent trying to promote their business in doing so.

you've walking into a conversation about apples and started slagging off pears.

[samh]

i dont think it particularly matters with bikeshops, this hasn't really got out of hand, but i have really noticed it with importers lately
eg. In the "what is the best dirtjump bike you can buy" thread
www.agent-bikes.com
Smith
Orange
or Mr Flow
I have ridden the smith and am riding a flow as we speak i swear by them...
SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
technoboy is the importer of agent bikes and ridesik noted this further down the page. I am sure that agent bikes are excellent bikes but i think what Chalkie said should be taken into action.
Maybe they need to have clearly labelled signatures, or a rule be enforced that a disclaimer (not sure if that’s the right term to use) notifying viewers must be included when they post a reply to such "what should I buy" "what bike" etc. threads.
I'm not saying that Technoboy is the only one doing it i have seen other importer people do it.
It's ok for technoboy to make people aware of his range of bikes but i don't think he should be able to say that they are "the best dirtjumper you can buy"
sam.

[Carlin]

I think it is pretty transparent. Most of the importers on here have their status as an importer in their custom titles, so it is pretty clear where these opinions are coming from.

The expertise available through the access to importers via these forums outweighs the occasional plug in my opinion.

As far as bias and credibility are concerned, Importers talking up their product have far more accountability than some random forum member giving out their opinion. They have to back up what they say, it is their job.

Finally if an importer is blowing smoke up someone's arse, those in the know are likely to pull them up on it.

[Dirt Devil]

It's ok for technoboy to make people aware of his range of bikes but i don't think he should be able to say that they are "the best dirtjumper you can buy"
Why not? He might think they really are the best DJ bike you can buy. Just his opinion. It's only dodgy when there's no mention of them being the distributor.

[Carlin]

It says "Dirty Imports" right under his user name.

Buyer beware.

[tu plang]

Why not? He might think they really are the best DJ bike you can buy. Just his opinion. It's only dodgy when there's no mention of them being the distributor.

there wasnt explicitly, I wasn't aware what dirty imports dealt in before that thread to be honest, and I dont think it was incredibly clear, he sure didnt try and make it apparent either.

i guess people should notice these things, after all its our own repsonsibility to filter advice. my issue was more so with the exploitation of the post your ride section.

[samh]

Why not? He might think they really are the best DJ bike you can buy. Just his opinion. It's only dodgy when there's no mention of them being the distributor.
true, what i meant to say that he shouldnt be able to say that without making it clear he was the importer.

Most of the importers on here have their status as an importer in their custom titles, so it is pretty clear where these opinions are coming from.
Yes but to the new member who asking a question may not have any idea what dirty imports meant, so as i said before have it a bit more clear.

[Carlin]

But it is a forum, if it is not the "Best dirt jump bike" then it is up to other users to say so.

Why would the opinion of another unaccountable anonomous forum member be any more credible? Even if it is less biased it could be equally bad. Like if someone said "A small Giant XTC is the best dirt jumping bike" for example.

[tu plang]

for me its not so much the credibility of the plugging etc. it's the fact that if someone on here mentioned their bike shop, or say derek or elvis plugged norco/dw everyone would chuck the shits, but for some reason a blind eye has been turned to this sort of thing.

[Carlin]

If it is that blatant then forum members should pull people up on it. If that is what this thread is doing then good.

I don't think we need more "rules" however.

[tu plang]

If it is that blatant then forum members should pull people up on it. If that is what this thread is doing then good.

I don't think we need more "rules" however.

definitely no more rules as such, but i think distributors need to use a bit of discretion. imo unsolicited plugs dont look as good as you think they might.

[samh]

i don't consider making it easier to distinguish between importers/non importers a "rule".

EDIT: Damn beaten, what tu plang said is what i meant as well.

[leitch]

But it is a forum, if it is not the "Best dirt jump bike" then it is up to other users to say so.
mmmm i seem to remember one girl tried that the other day, and got roasted for it - by the importer, no less... this thread isnt meant to be a technoboy-bashing, and it shouldnt be, but personally i thought that was pretty poor form.

on topic, i agree that it seems to have gotten to be a bit of a problem, and has become almost a little unprofessional. however, i think that a lot of it is in the wording of the recommendation. for lack of a better example, i regrettably have to use techno again here. in that "best DJ bike thread" i think he was more than entitled to post. however, had he written somthing like "hey mate, im the Agent importer, check out their purpose built DJ-ers at <agent URL> and see what you think" it would have been much more credible.

as tu_plang said, the post your ride section has also become a bit of a "post your newest sale" section. again, importers are more than entitled to post THEIR OWN bikes, and if that bike happens to be one they import, then so be it. HOWEVER, when they start posting every single bike they build and sell, it becomes a little eccessive.

anyhoos, thats my take on it
andrew

[Carlin]

definitely no more rules as such, but i think distributors need to use a bit of discretion. imo unsolicited plugs dont look as good as you think they might.

Agreed. :)

[samh]

Agreed. :)
Me too, And i agree with pretty much eveything lietch just said.

[haz friend]

yeah.. i agree while we are at it, why dont we make it you have to blur out the name of every component on your bike when you post it up??... :rolleyes:


Its not like there saying, OI YOU BUY THIS BIKE HERE.. they are just answering peoples questions, showing of their bikes...

Everyones bike no matter who posts it up is nothing buy an expensive rolling billboard....

i agree with this but i also agree with some of the other points
i think it is fine to post up a bike of yours that you import or a pic of a bike that you ride for
and i think its even ok if someone asks what bike is good for street and dirt jump and the importer says oh this bike (a bike they import)

because its not as bad as if a kid says oh what a good bike is good for downhill and hucking and then another kid who just got his first mtb which would be say an stp says oh get an stp they are awsome for hucking and downhill
or if someone asks what is a good bike for skatepark riding and another kid says oh get a norco manik they are awsome and the dual crowns look cool as(these are just made up examples by the way)

but the importers or sponsored riders have to be fair with how much they do it and if the advice is actually good

[I-AM-TEH-FASTEST-11]

on the subject of technoboy, since someone was whining about him in the "whats the best DJ bike" thread. It's worth mention that he isn't just an importer. He is a fucking great rider, a dirt jumper/street rider. he builds, and maintains, along with a few others, some of the biggest, best and most popular dirt jumps in sydney (anyone seen DIRT this issue?)... so why shouldn't his opinion be valued on that alone? Who cares if he imports the brands he reccmomended? He rides them and with his rep I think it entitles him to some credibility....

now I'm not saying that just cause he can ride it would give him a the right to be biased.. but I think we should clear the peanut butter off the sandwhich and see just how brown the bread is before we call it toast


haha I think I'm wasted

[rhyno]

It's more the way they are going about it. Sure, mention your brand every now and then, when it's relevant; but do it in a personal way not: buy xxx its the best it comes with [insert sales pitch here] and all for the low low price of $$$.
It should come across like any other kid joe, talking about the brand they own/have ridded, not like an importer trying to shift product.

[projectsplat]

interesting thread.

I am wondering if the idea of using the farkin for free market research should be brought into this discussion


I spotted this thread :
http://forums.farkin.net/showthread.php?t=56944
a while back. Now at the outset, it may seem innocuous, but the thread was started by someone who runs an online store selling mountain bike clothing.

There was also another thread started by the same person :
http://forums.farkin.net/showthread.php?t=56709
showing off "some new clothes that they got" but again, they run an online store selling those clothes.

Maybe I am being cynical, but it really did seem like a) market research and b) spamming of the forums. (Sorry DeathLens, take out an ad....)

[rhyno]

interesting thread.

I am wondering if the idea of using the farkin for free market research should be brought into this discussion


I spotted this thread :
http://forums.farkin.net/showthread.php?t=56944
a while back. Now at the outset, it may seem innocuous, but the thread was started by someone who runs an online store selling mountain bike clothing.

There was also another thread started by the same person :
http://forums.farkin.net/showthread.php?t=56709
showing off "some new clothes that they got" but again, they run an online store selling those clothes.

Maybe I am being cynical, but it really did seem like a) market research and b) spamming of the forums. (Sorry DeathLens, take out an ad....)
They got roasted for that if i remember correctly.

[Binaural]

interesting thread.

I am wondering if the idea of using the farkin for free market research should be brought into this discussion


I spotted this thread :
http://forums.farkin.net/showthread.php?t=56944
a while back. Now at the outset, it may seem innocuous, but the thread was started by someone who runs an online store selling mountain bike clothing.

There was also another thread started by the same person :
http://forums.farkin.net/showthread.php?t=56709
showing off "some new clothes that they got" but again, they run an online store selling those clothes.

Maybe I am being cynical, but it really did seem like a) market research and b) spamming of the forums. (Sorry DeathLens, take out an ad....)

I have seen a few threads started by new importers or by existing businesses new to Farkin. At least one of those was deleted and presumably the poster got a quiet PM from the mods about the right way to go about advertising. Since the posts you mentioned are from an OS business that is unlikely to pay advertising money they were probably left to be ridiculed as a warning to anybody else who wants to do something similar.

I am inclined to cut first-timers some slack but repeat offenders do deserve to be pulled up.

[samh]

on the subject of technoboy, since someone was whining about him in the "whats the best DJ bike" thread. It's worth mention that he isn't just an importer. He is a fucking great rider, a dirt jumper/street rider. he builds, and maintains, along with a few others, some of the biggest, best and most popular dirt jumps in sydney (anyone seen DIRT this issue?)... so why shouldn't his opinion be valued on that alone? Who cares if he imports the brands he reccmomended? He rides them and with his rep I think it entitles him to some credibility....
I completely agree, technoboy is easily one of the smoothest dirtjumps rider in Sydney, I did not actually mean to target technoboy, but his post was the first one i could find that can be used as an example for this thread.

[technoboy]

on the subject of technoboy, since someone was whining about him in the "whats the best DJ bike" thread. It's worth mention that he isn't just an importer. He is a fucking great rider, a dirt jumper/street rider. he builds, and maintains, along with a few others, some of the biggest, best and most popular dirt jumps in sydney (anyone seen DIRT this issue?)... so why shouldn't his opinion be valued on that alone? Who cares if he imports the brands he reccmomended? He rides them and with his rep I think it entitles him to some credibility....

now I'm not saying that just cause he can ride it would give him a the right to be biased.. but I think we should clear the peanut butter off the sandwhich and see just how brown the bread is before we call it toast


haha I think I'm wasted

Thanks mate! :)
p.s wasted or not that was hot!!! hahaha

[projectsplat]

They got roasted for that if i remember correctly.


Indeed. Fair call.

[leitch]

on the subject of technoboy, since someone was whining about him in the "whats the best DJ bike" thread. It's worth mention that he isn't just an importer. He is a fucking great rider, a dirt jumper/street rider. he builds, and maintains, along with a few others, some of the biggest, best and most popular dirt jumps in sydney (anyone seen DIRT this issue?)... so why shouldn't his opinion be valued on that alone? Who cares if he imports the brands he reccmomended? He rides them and with his rep I think it entitles him to some credibility....

now I'm not saying that just cause he can ride it would give him a the right to be biased.. but I think we should clear the peanut butter off the sandwhich and see just how brown the bread is before we call it toast


haha I think I'm wastedthis has nothing to do with what i was saying, and i didnt mean to target technoboy, he was just an example, there are other people, too. i have no doubt that dale is a damn good rider, and trail builder as i've seen from the number of phat snaps threads displaying just how skilled he is. furthermore, i wasn't doubting his credibility as such. what i was saying is that his opinions appear less credible due to the way in which they are presented - seemingly a much more salesman-like attitude than a normal guy offering some objective advice...

so once again, im not targeting dale as a person, and im sure that he is in fact a fantastic rider, but from what ive seen in a couple of posts recently, maybe a little more proffessionalism wouldn't go astray

[Inverted]

what i was saying is that his opinions appear less credible due to the way in which they are presented - seemingly a much more salesman-like attitude than a normal guy offering some objective advice...

so once again, im not targeting dale as a person, and im sure that he is in fact a fantastic rider, but from what ive seen in a couple of posts recently, maybe a little more proffessionalism wouldn't go astray



If his opinions appear less credible than others, its because he believes in the product he is promoting not just wanting to make the sale.

His opinions are from first hand experience, is that a bad thing?

[technoboy]

guys and girls,
you may not know the reasoning behind my attitude sometimes but let me tell you...
I have been riding for about 9 years now and have been a member of the site for a few also,
Since i joined i have not only built one of the best Dj parks in Australia i have started importing bikes.
when my mates and i started we tried to encourage Anyone who rode on the northern beaches to come up to the trail and try to get some jumps going.
we didnt get much of a crew so it was mainly 4 or 5 guys doing the work.

By the time the place transformed i had people from all over Australia on this site telling me i shouldn't build the jumps so big or i'm selfish cause not everybody can do the jumps winge winge winge.
where are you people from mars????
Anyway there are people on this site that know me i may not even know them but they no me,
they Concistanly flame anything i have posted they even wrote a personal message to me saying i suck little kids cocks and Agent bikes sucks on the sickest wallride we spent hours building for everyone to use.
This small majority of people sign up on this site as stupid user names such as: uwehfdung or juqrfjkhufh or even iqrfirj????
I couldn't care less about a bunch of guys that think they can ride constatly talking it up and
posting crap about me about my buisness name the frames i'm importing...

Keep talking it up boys maybe you can talk it up enough to give you the courage to bunny hop that gutter...

Now you have got a thread about me and the admins couldn't care less cause they think i spam.
I admit the few weeks i posted stuff about agent bikes consitanly for the simple reason they guy incharge of the advertising didn't get back to me...
(Sorry guys but its true)

Anyone that wants to know i'm a regular guy that rides everyday i build trails on the weekend and go city riding on Wednesday night.
If you know me thats because i have meet you and probably cause i like you,
If i have ever offended anyone or done something to hold a gruge including flamming on forums sorry.
After a while you get sick of people changing the subject of a thread topic
and turning into something to do with your self...
cheers,

p.s thanks for all the nice comments! :)

[::RideSiK::]

firstly technoboy this thread was by NO means aimed directly at you and deffinatly not you personally... it was certainly not attacking your credibility as a rider or trailbuilder.

what i was commenting on was the ammount of advertising of bikes and products that goes on through the importers posts...

i dont really want to name names but it seems that some are overstepping the mark a little here, i mean in post your ride is it really nessecary to include a bloody wallpaper advertising your disribution company??? (that doncon bikes or whatever it is)

and likewise every time a frame (morewood) is sold do we really need to see it no matter if its a farkin member or not?

[technoboy]

firstly technoboy this thread was by NO means aimed directly at you and deffinatly not you personally... it was certainly not attacking your credibility as a rider or trailbuilder.

what i was commenting on was the ammount of advertising of bikes and products that goes on through the importers posts...

i dont really want to name names but it seems that some are overstepping the mark a little here, i mean in post your ride is it really nessecary to include a bloody wallpaper advertising your disribution company??? (that doncon bikes or whatever it is)

and likewise every time a frame (morewood) is sold do we really need to see it no matter if its a farkin member or not?

dude you said your bit no one cares for your post...

[S.]

on the subject of technoboy, since someone was whining about him in the "whats the best DJ bike" thread. It's worth mention that he isn't just an importer. He is a fucking great rider, a dirt jumper/street rider. he builds, and maintains, along with a few others, some of the biggest, best and most popular dirt jumps in sydney (anyone seen DIRT this issue?)... so why shouldn't his opinion be valued on that alone? Who cares if he imports the brands he reccmomended? He rides them and with his rep I think it entitles him to some credibility....

now I'm not saying that just cause he can ride it would give him a the right to be biased.. but I think we should clear the peanut butter off the sandwhich and see just how brown the bread is before we call it toast


haha I think I'm wasted

This isn't about whether someone is a good rider or not, or whether they're a good bloke or charitable or have done a lot for the scene or signed greenpeace's save the whales petition - it's simply about whether people (and no Technoboy, this is NOT aimed at you personally so don't go thinking it is) are plugging their own stuff above and beyond what could reasonably be expected of a private owner with no financial interest in promoting that product. For example, posting threads in Post Your Ride about products you've sold for no reason other than to bring people's attention to that brand (yes it's being dealt with), isn't something that would be done by somebody with no vested interest in selling that brand - it's purely unpaid-for, unsolicited advertising, commonly known as spam.

This is simply the business of advertising. Farkin.net does not want to piss potential advertisers off, but it's totally unfair to paying advertisers to let others do it for free.

If his opinions appear less credible than others, its because he believes in the product he is promoting not just wanting to make the sale.

His opinions are from first hand experience, is that a bad thing?

Sorry but that made no sense at all. If anybody's opinions APPEAR less credible then it's because it APPEARS, to the reader, that they are not giving you a realistic/honest/objective view of the situation (either because they don't really know - which is probably not the case here - or because they have a vested interest in you believing their opinion).


Technoboy: sorry if you feel like you're being singled out, that's not my intention (nor that of the site admins), but you were one of the people brought up as an example. I would have preferred to discuss this topic without having to mention names, but it's a bit late for that now. In light of that, it would be appreciated if, in future, spam complaints can be directed via PM to a mod/admin so that this can be settled without having to publicly keelhaul anyone.

[S.]

dude you said your bit no one cares for your post...

WTF? Who the hell are you to decide? You're REALLY not doing yourself any favours now. Nobody here has been anything but reasonable in dealing with this (except apparently some morons who have taken to abusing you with childish insults), yet you seem to feel the need to antagonise people further.

[technoboy]

WTF? Who the hell are you to decide? You're REALLY not doing yourself any favours now. Nobody here has been anything but reasonable in dealing with this (except apparently some morons who have taken to abusing you with childish insults), yet you seem to feel the need to antagonise people further.

WTF???? who the hell are you to use me as an example......

[Inverted]

If Technoboy was paying for banner advertising, would it be problem if he posted in the forums about his product or does he have to wait until someone asks a question?

[S.]

If Technoboy was paying for banner advertising, would it be problem if he posted in the forums about his product or does he have to wait until someone asks a question?

Press releases can be used to announce new products or team news or whatever, that's fine. Also allowed is posting up your own personal bike(s) or even your team bikes or anything along those lines. Starting random threads about your stuff with no provokation, however, is exactly what spam is.

WTF???? who the hell are you to use me as an example......

Keep digging mate. Ahh it works on so many levels.

[technoboy]

Press releases can be used to announce new products or team news or whatever, that's fine. Also allowed is posting up your own personal bike(s) or even your team bikes or anything along those lines. Starting random threads about your stuff with no provokation, however, is exactly what spam is.



Keep digging mate. Ahh it works on so many levels.
as long as i have a shovel i can dig my way out....

[Inverted]

Press releases can be used to announce new products or team news or whatever, that's fine. Also allowed is posting up your own personal bike(s) or even your team bikes or anything along those lines. Starting random threads about your stuff with no provokation, however, is exactly what spam is.

As far as I know he hasnt started any random threads, he just reply's to posts when users ask about 'what bike should I buy' or 'whats the best dj bike'.
The thread he started, 'flow' in the post your ride section is his own bike.

[S.]

As far as I know he hasnt started any random threads, he just reply's to posts when users ask about 'what bike should I buy' or 'whats the best dj bike'.
The thread he started, 'flow' in the post your ride section is his own bike.

Yeah, as I've said before, the thread in post your ride was NOT causing any problems (other than people getting aggro towards the girl who said she broke one). If you want to offer an opinion in a "what bike should I buy" thread, then do it by giving real, useful information and so forth, NOT just listing bikes that you sell (even if you do honestly believe they're the best, because nobody else can tell). As I have discussed with TB via PMs, offering opinions about "what should I buy" is fine IF you're honest and open about who you are/any interests you have in that product (ie if you're selling it or whatever), and give real backing information about it. For example, saying "I sell these, but this is my honest opinion all the same. Personally I think the ____ is the best bike/frame/part I've ridden, and I'd highly recommend it because it's nice and light, the geometry is super dialled for trail riding/dirtjumping/DH/trials/riding to the shops, and it seems to be strong too."
That kind of thing is not generally considered spam, and I think it would be hard for anyone to criticise your opinions or cry spam if you're totally open about whether you sell that product, and give real, useful information about them. Sure, there's potential for people to lie to make their products seem better than they are by doing that, but the potential for misinformation is always there regardless of whether the person posting, also sells that stuff or not (you only have to look at the threads in Parts n Stuff to see that a lot of people just talk out their arse anyway). Does that make sense or would you like further clarification?

[technoboy]

well what thread was the problem then?
because he's just sticking up for me,
I had a problem with what that girl posted as she claimed she broke two flow frames funny thing was the flow frame had not been made untill Feb..
Also she claimed that the flow rusted on the welds, News flash!!! Aluminium doesnt rust...

Anyway if she is the real deal " A chick that rides dirt jumps and cracks frames" I'll marry her!!!!! haha

[Inverted]

I agree a good discription on why you think the bike would be good for the user, not just a few lines with a link. But I have seen so many posts like TB but he seems to be the one taking the brunt.

I think there should be some guidelines so users know what the deal is.

[S.]

well what thread was the problem then?
because he's just sticking up for me,
I had a problem with what that girl posted as she claimed she broke two flow frames funny thing was the flow frame had not been made untill Feb..
Also she claimed that the flow rusted on the welds, News flash!!! Aluminium doesnt rust...

Anyway if she is the real deal " A chick that rides dirt jumps and cracks frames" I'll marry her!!!!! haha

The "best dirtjump bike money can buy" thread was the only real problem, where you simply posted a list of the bikes. I accept that you might not have intended it to be spam as such, but that's how it looks to everyone who reads it.

In the PYR thread, if that girl was indeed telling porkies, feel free to call her out on it in an appropriate manner. Having people chuck insults at her or accuse her of wrecking jumps doesn't help anyone, and personally I am of the opinion that if you act calmly/professionally in the face of such claims, you will gain a lot more respect than anyone who sets out to slander you for whatever reason.

I agree a good discription on why you think the bike would be good for the user, not just a few lines with a link. But I have seen so many posts like TB but he seems to be the one taking the brunt.

I think there should be some guidelines so users know what the deal is.
Yeah I know what you mean, but you have to take into account that most of the time that isn't by people who sell the product they're arbitrarily listing. There are some nitwits around who will simply go "____ IS TEH BEST!" in such threads, but since they don't stand to profit from it (and because most people will usually ignore them) it's not a big problem. Now and then, someone will post a thread with very specific requests (or simply asking for suggestions more than recommendations), for example "I'm looking for a hardtail frame with sub 16" chainstays, head angle slacker than 69 degrees, and preferably fairly light", and yeah in those situations simply listing stuff is fine, that's all the poster was probably looking for. It's all contextual really.

BTW - if you think other people are getting away with similar forms of spam, PM any of the admins and we'll take care of it. Again, sorry if TB appeared to be copping it more than others - he was simply the one brought up as an example. Rough luck, but that's life.

[sawtell]

as long as i have a shovel i can dig my way out....

Dont Dig down, Dig up stupid!! ;)


JUST TO LER YOU KNOW THIS IS NOT DIRECTED AT YOU TECHNOBOY..I SAY THIS AS EVERYTHING ELSE THAT HAS BEEN SAID IN THIS THREAD, YOU HAVE ASSUMED IT IS AT YOU.. THE WORLD DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND YOU!!!
but yeah on topic...
To what i said before, about every bike being a walking billboard why dotn we blur out all the brand names....
I still agree with that (minus the blur out bit:rolleyes: ), but i also agree with what most others have said..
Farkin.net is pretty much a non-profitable website (well thats what were told!:p )... The website needs as much money as it can get to keep it going.
Where does this money come from? ... ADVERTISERS!!!


If every distributor/importer/seller kinda person is just going to go around and post there shit up with out paying, how will the website continue going?...

[Registered Nutter]

I reckon that signature idea is a good one. Make sure its bold and readable.

[No Skid Marks]

I'm importing both Brooklyn and Lahar,I've looked for good kit to import for years and found nothing I could sell without feeling like I was lying,I even went all the way to the Tapai show in Taiwan,and found nothing. I import Booklyn because they're strong,durable,I like the design and I believe it works really well. I'm running on very minimal markup and when I post something about Brooklyn it's because I believe it not because I sell it. I don't wish to have Brooklyn associated to my user name because I wish to speak my mind as me not as a Brooklyn representative,I also don't wish for people to perceive some bias as there is none. I'm also importing Lahar and am very excited to get the first one as I've always dreampt of a Rohloff hub,a high single pivot(Brooklyn,Balfa),and even better both combined in a well engeneered package,also with the bennefit of being made in NZ where I'm happy to send money.I will be disapointed to have to sell my Brooklyn to fund building and testing the Lahar so I know what I'm selling and cause I can't wait.I really liked the Brooklyn and am only selling it cause a friend will buy it and still let me let people test ride it.Possibly the Lahar will end up being sold and I'll get a Brooklyn again(I'd say I'll be stoked with it but). So sorry for the rant but my point is,I ride and dig this shit so I'll rave about it,I'm not buying a car or house of the profits and I doubt any of the other importers are doing the same,only a fool would import boutique bikes for profit,I'd say most small timers are into it cause they believe in the product they're selling.I'm not repeating marketing hype like most of the sheep on here,I'm saying what I believe,oh and by the way,I can't ride for shit,and most of you would smoke me but I've still beeen riding for over ten years and know my shit fairly well(I hope/imagine).
Mods feel free to label me as Brooklyn/Lahar importer if you see fit.

[tu plang]

NSM, tbh you're probably the one person who could get away without a title. i dont think theres any member who talks less shit and is more to the point. i dont think you have to do much selling of either brand, they pretty much sell themselves too.

[Grip]

I'm importing both Brooklyn and Lahar,I've looked for good kit to import for years and found nothing I could sell without feeling like I was lying,I even went all the way to the Tapai show in Taiwan,and found nothing. I import Booklyn because they're strong,durable,I like the design and I believe it works really well. I'm running on very minimal markup and when I post something about Brooklyn it's because I believe it not because I sell it. I don't wish to have Brooklyn associated to my user name because I wish to speak my mind as me not as a Brooklyn representative,I also don't wish for people to perceive some bias as there is none. I'm also importing Lahar and am very excited to get the first one as I've always dreampt of a Rohloff hub,a high single pivot(Brooklyn,Balfa),and even better both combined in a well engeneered package,also with the bennefit of being made in NZ where I'm happy to send money.I will be disapointed to have to sell my Brooklyn to fund building and testing the Lahar so I know what I'm selling and cause I can't wait.I really liked the Brooklyn and am only selling it cause a friend will buy it and still let me let people test ride it.Possibly the Lahar will end up being sold and I'll get a Brooklyn again(I'd say I'll be stoked with it but). So sorry for the rant but my point is,I ride and dig this shit so I'll rave about it,I'm not buying a car or house of the profits and I doubt any of the other importers are doing the same,only a fool would import boutique bikes for profit,I'd say most small timers are into it cause they believe in the product they're selling.I'm not repeating marketing hype like most of the sheep on here,I'm saying what I believe,oh and by the way,I can't ride for shit,and most of you would smoke me but I've still beeen riding for over ten years and know my shit fairly well(I hope/imagine).
Mods feel free to label me as Brooklyn/Lahar importer if you see fit.

First off, thanks for taking the time to write such a reasonable position statement, and while I understand where you say you're coming from, I have to add that I really think it's a little naive to say that you are unbiased when it comes to opinions on these bikes you happen to import. Now don't get me wrong, I am NOT trying to call you a liar, but simply pointing out that given the time/money/effort you've put into dealing these particular bikes it seems highly unlikely that you wouldn't be biased towards them. In fact I'd suggest it would be impossible. Which is NOT to say you're blowing smoke up everyone's arse when you make a comment about this bike or that bike, just that you will almost certainly be seen (and assumed) to be biased by anyone who knows your connection with Brooklyn and Lahar. The bottom line is that if you rave about one of your imports people will assume a bias. If you give a negative opinion on another brand... people will assume a bias. Sorry, but that's human nature.

As for changing your user title. Yep... I've done it, for the simple fact that Farkin has a policy on identifying "industry" folk so that its members can decide for themselves which information given on the forums is worthwhile/biased etc.

[tu plang]

As for changing your user title. Yep... I've done it, for the simple fact that Farkin has a policy on identifying "industry" folk so that its members can decide for themselves which information given on the forums is worthwhile/biased etc.

Even Grip himself has his bias layed out for all to see in his title. Next time grip recommends duck, take the advice with a pinch of salt.