School Drug Tests, opinions?

[Venciferus]

http://ninemsn.video.msn.com/v/en-au/v.htm?g=3c1c8364-e02d-4bc7-aa1f-ee556d9707f9&f=imbot_en-au&fg=rss

Any thoughts or opinions on the matter?.

[zids]

Before I say anything, does it test for alcohol use?

[Venciferus]

I'm not sure about alcohol, obviously it is a drug but I have no idea.

[fattyandthepiemakers]

They said they will be testing the kids twice a year. How long do drugs traces stay in your system?

[|Matt|]

They said they will be testing the kids twice a year. How long do drugs traces stay in your system?

Depends what you take.

Common drugs such as:
Marijuana can take up to 5 days, Cocaine up to 2 days, Heroin up to 2 days and Ecstasy up to 5 days.

Health last year ;)

I remember hearing a while ago that there was some test they could do to test if you had EVER done any kind of illicit substance for entering the Police academy, and if you had done it even once you could not get in :eek:

[mpdowling]

What! sure drugs are a very serious topic, but how far will schools and educations go? Starting to test for what poeple do in their past times and what they do out of school. i'm strugeling to see how it is the schools business to see if the kids are doing these things outside of school! i'm sorry for not conveying my argument very well this just made me apauled! :mad:

[zids]

I think testing for illicit drugs is a good idea to reduce use, but testing for alcohol would be a pretty pointless excercise in my eyes.

I think Alcohol may be excluded, as in the news cast, they mention a mouth swab (the type used by police for road side testing). However, for roadside alcohol BAC testing a brethiliser is used.

[robmundall]

If schools are to be tested, should the same occur in workplaces?
Really I think it will only bring trouble, If kids want to experiment there going to do so, going to a counceller if they are court is not going to deteur(sp.) them.
It is just another invasion of privacy.

No alcohol will not come up.

[demo man]

stupid idea.

simple. just don't do it.

[jonot]

If you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to hide.

[Registered Nutcase]

If you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to hide.


its not so much the fact that they are or arn't its the fact that its an invasion of your privacy. the school has NO right to force these things from you when you are not at school. i belive its the same at the workplace with the exceptions of certain jobs that should be tested due to the risk of death if they are. ie airline pilots

[Daver]

its not so much the fact that they are or arn't its the fact that its an invasion of your privacy. the school has NO right to force these things from you when you are not at school. i belive its the same at the workplace with the exceptions of certain jobs that should be tested due to the risk of death if they are. ie airline pilots

I'm sure just about every job runs a risk if the worker is under the influence of whatever. I'm all for it. If you havn't done anything wrong you've got nothing to hide.

[Ivan]

Depends what you take.

Common drugs such as:
Marijuana can take up to 5 days, :

It can be detectable for up to 3 months in heavy users


I remember hearing a while ago that there was some test they could do to test if you had EVER done any kind of illicit substance for entering the Police academy, and if you had done it even once you could not get in :eek:

This is not true

If schools are to be tested, should the same occur in workplaces?


Drug test's occur regurlarly in workplaces now. At several places I have worked they perform random drug testing, and at places in Gladstone like the aluminium refinery, you have to blow in a blood alcohol tester everytime you enter the site to start your shift, as well as random drug tests.

But hell no, to school drug testing!:D There's going to be pretty poor attendance once their forced to send everyone home.

[Live2DieTrying]

I remember hearing a while ago that there was some test they could do to test if you had EVER done any kind of illicit substance for entering the Police academy, and if you had done it even once you could not get in :eek:

I think thats a load of shit. If there was a way to do this, i'd like to see it.
Think of a 90 year old person testing positive to marijuana that he/she smoked while they were a teenager. It's just not going to happen.

The body doesn'ts top refreshing itself unless there's a problem, and with drugs, the body works to get rid of them.


Personally i think drug test shouldn't be conducted at schools. Well unless the testing is for performance enhancing substances (muscle growth for sports persons, or something to help learning/memory for exams.)
They don't really have the right... Good thing my schooling is nearly over, i love my illegal behaviour :) (first smiley i've ever posted!)

Down withthe idea drug testing in schools..!

[and1]

I don't think every student should be subjected to drug testing. If you were suspected of it, perhaps then they should be subjected to it if it is in some way connected to school or school activities. If we start doing it in schools where do we draw the line? Should we then be able to test anyone that wants to live in Australia?

[demo man]

If you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to hide.

That is looking at this on such a simplistic view though. oh yeah, and do me a favour - define wrong.

Testing for drugs is just another way society can shove a 'you must act this way' sort of testimony down kids throats. i know, and everyone in a high school knows, people who have shit home lives, bad relationships or something else, even small stuff, that makes them want to go against the rules in some way. It's not always full on rebelion or anything, just a bong in the afternoon or a joint and booze on a Fri/Sat night.

I also beleive the arguements that telling someone they can't do something makes them want to do it. this is just a reinforcement of that, along with invasions of privacy.


Look at the people this is actually going to effect though. EVERYONE. Honestly, almost everyone in high school does drugs at one stage or another, the smart kids even. It's part of growing up almost, learning about different experiences and all that.

I'm most worried about what it will do to the kids who are in real shit, and have almost no control over what they're up to and where their life is going. the ones youth centres are built for. it's hard enough keeping them in school as it is.

[custard]

hrmmm sounds like an idea, but it would wreck that kids life with their parents almost instantly

[sockman]

Depends what you take.

Common drugs such as:
Marijuana can take up to 5 days,



i dunno what ur pe teacher told you, but i have herd upto 1 month...

and fatty why where u wondering?:p

[gravelclimber]

If they're testing if a student was under the influence of drugs while they were at school I think that's fine. I could imagine a strip test like used in road-side testing in most states which detects recent ingestion of drugs. If it comes up positive the student could elect to have a blood test (more accurate and reliable). If they were testing if a student had had drugs in the last days, weeks or months than I think that goes too far.

[Mo]

society can shove a 'you must act this way' sort of testimony down kids throats.

maybe you are not aware. but Australia is the largest consumer of drugs per capita.

i am for the testing, young kids aren't aware of the damage drugs do to a young and growing brain.
i've seen many kids falling to the "im old enough, can make my own decision" line. in the end, they go on anti-depressants, miss out on the fun and lead a life of crap.

it's just sad to see those things happen to young kids. it's the same case of Cigarettes having a COOL factor in the 70-80-90's, nowadays it's drugs.

[Binaural]

If you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to hide.

I don't buy in to the argument that if you've done nothing wrong, you've nothing to fear. If you don't have anything to hide, make sure you don't complain if you ever get raided by cops without a warrant, or get body cavity searched by a cop who doesn't like your attitude.

There are valid reasons to perform random drug tests - for example, for people who control dangerous machinery or who have access to pharmaceuticals, or who drive trains etc. I don't think that high school kids fall into this category where testing is done because any impairment can be disasterous.

Accurate drug tests are expensive and require teachers or other professionals to be trained in applying and supervising the testing (urine, patches etc). Drugs like alcohol can't be detected, whereas pot can be detected for a few months. Methamphetamines disappear in a couple of days. Ironically, introducing drug tests could encourage kids to use harder drugs in preference to soft ones like pot. Outcome = teh win!

Besides these considerations, I think kids have a right to privacy that a school should not be casually allowed to violate. A school's reponsibility for preventing drug use should end at enforcing school rules regarding drug use and dealing - close supervision and monitoring for drug use is a parent's responsibility.

[S.]

If you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to hide.

Sick. So naturally you'll have no problem with me secretly following you around 24/7 reporting anything and everything to your parents and/or the cops, because you do nothing wrong? I'm betting you'd get pretty sick of having YOUR privacy invaded all the time.

Fuck em, it's an invasion of privacy and just another removal of the basic right of every person to do whatever the hell they want provided it's not harming anyone else. Unless people have a good reason to believe that you are taking drugs and that it is negatively affecting other people, they can just shove it up their respective arses - it's none of their business. Same goes for random breath tests/drug tests on the road - unless they have a reason to suspect that you ARE drunk or under the influence of drugs, they shouldn't be able to test you for it (although in the road testing case they at least have the argument that you MIGHT be intrinsically putting other people at risk - flawed argument IMO but that's another story). If someone is high/stoned/whatever at school, as long as they're not causing dramas for other students (or staff), who cares? They're not endangering anyone, they're not having any negative effects on the place, so why on earth should they be harassed about drugs, without their consent?

And for the record, I don't take any kind of illicit drugs, so it wouldn't affect me anyway.

[|Matt|]

i dunno what ur pe teacher told you, but i have herd upto 1 month...

and fatty why where u wondering?:p

Yeah but it depends on the quality of the substance and how old/heavy and how used to the substance you are too.

A person who weighs 40KG and has never had the strong stuff before might have the stuff in their system for a month.

Plus, this testing wouldn't bother me. Apart from the odd drink I don't do drugs. Might get me some free time out of class :)

[S.]

maybe you are not aware. but Australia is the largest consumer of drugs per capita.

i am for the testing, young kids aren't aware of the damage drugs do to a young and growing brain.
i've seen many kids falling to the "im old enough, can make my own decision" line. in the end, they go on anti-depressants, miss out on the fun and lead a life of crap.

it's just sad to see those things happen to young kids. it's the same case of Cigarettes having a COOL factor in the 70-80-90's, nowadays it's drugs.

Why not educate the kids then, so they ARE aware of the damage drugs can do to a "young and growing brain", and THEN let them make their own informed decision? Ramming stuff like this down people's throat doesn't convince them that you're right, it just makes ideological enemies out of them.

[custard]

Why not educate the kids then, so they ARE aware of the damage drugs can do to a "young and growing brain", and THEN let them make their own informed decision?

doesn't work...... they tried it at my school..... and most of the kids went home and hit the bong or had some eccies and went out raving....

[Mo]

educate kids, that's gotta start at home and drugs aren't a topic that is nicely taken, as a kid myself i asked my mum about Mary Jane, it eventually made it do it...how to educate i dont bloody know.

maybe the angle i used wasn't how the message chould have been passed, but you did seem to get the point.

i learnt it through experience maybe those kids using drugs will learn a lesson and become something more significant.

[S.]

doesn't work...... they tried it at my school..... and most of the kids went home and hit the bong or had some eccies and went out raving....

And how does that mean it doesn't work? If they actually have all the real information about the negatives AND positives of various drugs, and make a decision knowing that stuff full well, then regardless of whether they chose to take drugs or not, it worked. This is about having the ability to make an informed decision, and if somebody is fully informed of the potential consequences, understands them etc, and still chooses to do it, who the hell is anyone else to say they can't or try and enforce such rules against them?

[fattyandthepiemakers]

A bit off topic but...

At my school a few mates of mine had a bit of an incident outside school hours. They went to a party, got drunk then started mixing perscription pills (just random pills they found) in their drinks. In the morning one of them was dead, two had to be taken to hospital and one got away without anything happening. This happened at the start of the school holidays and the school released to the media that they will be offering counceling to those effected. When school returns what do they do? They kick the 3 girls out of the school. They say the school has a zero tollerance policy on drugs. A new rule has been put in place, all students found using or showing evidence of using drugs of any discription will be expelled. Now hold up, do you want the school to be closed down. Think about it, it's a private school (apparently 'the best' in Townsville), a large majority of kids that go their are snobby wankers that judge you on what you own not what you are like a person. Some of these kids are fucking loaded! They say that public schools are the ones with the major drug problems, but we have the money. They could soar in the clouds every week if they wanted do and some probably already do. Sure in one aspect compolsary drug testing in schools is a good thing but what if this was implimented in to our school? Expelling 50-80% of the school each semester? I guess if these test were to come in to practice at all school they would think about other approaches towards student's taking drugs.

Wow, did I write all that without a break?!

[Venciferus]

Fuck em, it's an invasion of privacy and just another removal of the basic right of every person to do whatever the hell they want provided it's not harming anyone else. Unless people have a good reason to believe that you are taking drugs and that it is negatively affecting other people, they can just shove it up their ...................

So I guess your strongly (very strongly) against teachers/school checking students lunch boxes for un-healthy food etc and then students receiving a detention (or similiar) for having un-healthy food in there lunch box.

They kick the 3 girls out of the school. They say the school has a zero tollerance policy on drugs. A new rule has been put in place, all students found using or showing evidence of using drugs of any discription will be expelled.

Me, being a smart ass etc absolutely hate, hate, hate when things like that happen, the school has NO authority over what you do outside of the school grounds/time and no reason to punish you for doing such outside school time/grounds, just like when I "accidently" threw a plum at the principles car, I got a week detention for doing that (which I didn't turn up to) after school out the front of my house.

[naz]

Depends what you take.

Common drugs such as:
Marijuana can take up to 5 days, Cocaine up to 2 days, Heroin up to 2 days and Ecstasy up to 5 days.

Health last year ;)

I remember hearing a while ago that there was some test they could do to test if you had EVER done any kind of illicit substance for entering the Police academy, and if you had done it even once you could not get in :eek:

what are you talking about, weed can stay in your system up to 2months, its a lipid (absorbed into body fat)

try

www.erowid.com for educational information on almost every drug.

[S.]

So I guess your strongly (very strongly) against teachers/school checking students lunch boxes for un-healthy food etc and then students receiving a detention (or similiar) for having un-healthy food in there lunch box.


haha are you serious? Someone somewhere actually does that? If so, hell yeah. And keep in mind, there is no law saying you can't be a vengeful, spiteful person, provided you technically don't break any other laws.

[fattyandthepiemakers]

its a lipid (absorbed into body fat)

So if you exercise and use up your body fat for energy does that get rid of a percentage of it?

[sockman]

thanks naz, using that site for my pdhpe assignment due 8 15 tomorrow!!!

[Binaural]

So if you exercise and use up your body fat for energy does that get rid of a percentage of it?

No - nothing shifts it basically, just have to wait it out. If you want to avoid getting caught, you need to use masking agents (which can be detected as well).

[naz]

i heard "dolomite" (pure calcium tablets) may clear any traces of THC out of your body fat, mungin on a few tablets a day. i cant vouch validity, but my school shrink told me hahaha

[Binaural]

So I guess your strongly (very strongly) against teachers/school checking students lunch boxes for un-healthy food etc and then students receiving a detention (or similiar) for having un-healthy food in there lunch box.


Much as I hate to agree with S twice in one night ;), I think forced lunchbox checks is a total waste of teacher's time and a pointless invasion of privacy. What's wrong with making it school policy that healthy foods are sold in the school canteen, and educating kids on good choices?

Given 5/21ths of a kid's meals are likely to be outside school (assuming one meal a day at school) this sort of scheme is really just political grandstanding of little practical merit.

[jonot]

That is looking at this on such a simplistic view though. oh yeah, and do me a favour - define wrong.

Yeah, this situation is pretty simple but. Obviously wrong in this context is taking drugs.

All matters such as social perception, whether or not they should/shouldn't be illegal etc aside, the schools are testing for use. If you have been using it, then you're obviously in the wrong.

Edit:

Wow. Just read all the replies in relation to my first response.

I was talking about 'wrong' in the context of this situation.

I.e. having taken drugs, and being detected in the test.

:)

Also like S., I have never taken illicit drugs, and don't plan to.

[naz]

Yeah, this situation is pretty simple but. Obviously wrong in this context is taking drugs.

All matters such as social perception, whether or not they should/shouldn't be illegal etc aside, the schools are testing for use. If you have been using it, then you're obviously in the wrong.

okay imo, if your using drugs at school your fucked, but drug testing at schools is way to broad, testing cant test 830-3 mon to fri, schools should have no fuckin say or opoinon in what you do when your not there.

[demo man]

So I guess your strongly (very strongly) against teachers/school checking students lunch boxes for un-healthy food etc and then students receiving a detention (or similiar) for having un-healthy food in there lunch box.

and are you for it? that's fucked up on so many levels.

Me, being a smart ass etc absolutely hate, hate, hate when things like that happen, the school has NO authority over what you do outside of the school grounds/time and no reason to punish you for doing such outside school time/grounds, just like when I "accidently" threw a plum at the principles car, I got a week detention for doing that (which I didn't turn up to) after school out the front of my house.
I recken you deserved to be punished for that one. (assuming you threw a plum at the principal's car, as i read it)

[PINT of Stella, mate!]

I've come up against drug testing in the work place a lot of times in the past. And occasionally you do get a company that has a progressive "let's not stick our head up our arse whilst simultaneously avoiding cutting off our nose to spite our face" drugs policy. Unfortunately most prefer the "drugs are bad m'kay" policy - by which I mean, enforcing random drug tests that can detect the presence of drugs you may have taken in the previous couple of weeks, then firing you because of the results of that test!

That's the private sector, however and although I could wail for hours about how random drug testing does not create more efficient businesses or rule out incompetency in the work place, I won't.

We're talking about kids at school.

I was at school once (In fact i think it was last thursday, well, until the police moved me on:rolleyes: ...)

Crap jokes aside. I took a SHITLOAD* of drugs whilst I was at school and it never hampered me from pursuing a university education (and a temp career at Maccas). At the same time I had former friends and classmates turn into smackhead petty criminals who I only ever hear about these days, if they've died or been sent down for gbh or worse.

Had they introduced Random Drug Testing at my school? Well, there'd have been a hell of a lot more expulsions, that's for sure. I think those who were destined for a life of shooting up and robbing corner shops would have still followed that path. I also think they would have had a lot more company...

Unless a School Body or an Employer is sitting waiting with a fully paid-up re-hab program and the guarantee of their old job or course back with NO recriminations (after clean test results, of course) for those that fail, random drug testing will remain a horribly discriminatory means of clearing out the undesirables from the system.



*By "SHITLOAD" I'm refering to my past memories which were supplied by an enthusiastic (but probably exaggerative) young adolescent who loved Cypress Hill, Scooter and vandalising bus shelters.

I wouldn't trust him either...

[Venciferus]

and are you for it? that's fucked up on so many levels.

Nope, not for it at all it's very, very stupid, luckily I'm a healthy little boy.

I recken you deserved to be punished for that one. (assuming you threw a plum at the principal's car, as i read it)

Well I guess punishment from my parents would have been fine but definitely not the school, I actually rolled the plum across the road and the tire flicked the plum up BTW this was in prep, making me 6 years old, after the car stopped I ran out the back of my house and grabbed a big stick, I had to be dragged to school the next day.

[Topple's]

Ok a couple of things. First i should say i am a teacher in the nsw public system.
1. The cost of this exercise is going to be huge and i think that the money could be far better spent on building resources for kids, not just school resources.
2. I am in favour of testing if it is testing for CURRENT influence. The weekend is the weekend and i agree that many kids will experiment once and this should not cost them too dearly. At the same time however, i also see the point that testing for any use may be a further discouragement for kids to try drugs, and i like that part.
3. If a kid is injured at school they are under our care. If they are drunk, high etc they should not be wasting our (staff and remaining students) time. If you want to do these things let your parents take care of you.
4.I understand that some people have terrible home lives and do these things to escape reality, BUT, i also see that the students who stay positive and look for a real world escape (ie learn to care for themselves and their siblings etc) go on to have much more pleasent lives after school. The extra strength of character is a much better asset.
5. Most (i said most) teachers who care are able to tell if a student has started to take drugs as there are clear changes in behaviour. This will in many cases give confirmation. At the moment if we saw a noticeable change in behaviour and rang a parent to say we suspect drugs, the parent would (95% of the time) be most unaccomodating.
6. It is good to see a few people saying parents need to take the responsibility. Too many people these days expect teachers to raise their kids. The ones who are active parents are very much appreciated. If a parent has a concern it is good to see them raise the issue with us in a joint venture.
My 2c.
Sorry if my typing is crap.
*EDIT* Note- just went back and read some replies again and thought i would remind people that school hours include traveling to and from school and basically anytime your wearing a school unifrom in public.

[@nDr3w]

I agree with the money issue, and believe it could be much better spent
i.e. spend it on free youth rehabilitation centres or something along those lines.

This would allow help for those who want it.

IMO we should help those who want to help themselves.

I am lucky to have mates at school who arent into drugs, and I am definately not into them, so I am speaking with limited knowledge of how drugs can affect people's lives (besides what I learn in health), but I still believe that people who want help should recieve it, rather than forcing it on those that don't.

my two cents.

Andrew.

[tassiehardtail]

Hmm seems kinda pointless

I can see that they oviously mean well but can't they give us a break. I'm sure the coppers have better things to occupy their time with.


Leave us alone

[extreme_ride]

twice a year.. only a retard wil get caught

I think they should only test the people they know do drugs excessively for example deros but then again what the hell will they care and there parents probably wont care either

[and1]

Yeah but it depends on the quality of the substance and how old/heavy and how used to the substance you are too.

A person who weighs 40KG and has never had the strong stuff before might have the stuff in their system for a month.


Actually in the case of many drugs, marijuana especially it is stored in your body fat, so the heavier you are the longer it can stay in your system.

So I guess your strongly (very strongly) against teachers/school checking students lunch boxes for un-healthy food etc and then students receiving a detention (or similiar) for having un-healthy food in there lunch box.

Everyone should be against that, its downright ludacris.

Me, being a smart ass etc absolutely hate, hate, hate when things like that happen, the school has NO authority over what you do outside of the school grounds/time and no reason to punish you for doing such outside school time/grounds, just like when I "accidently" threw a plum at the principles car, I got a week detention for doing that (which I didn't turn up to) after school out the front of my house.

I do however agree with you there, except possibly in the case where a student may have been involved in a violent crime eg; stabbing, rape, bashing etc. Simply because it is protecting other students from potential physical harm.

So if you exercise and use up your body fat for energy does that get rid of a percentage of it?

No, its not like going to the gym and burning calories, unless you could potentially lose most of your body fat in that time it isn't going to do anything - you stoner! ;)

[lupine128]

it's been a LONG time since i weighed into one of these threads, and in that time many of the solid voices of reason i spent my time in happy, productive argument with seem to have left (ah johnny, we miss your 4 page rants), but lets look at few issues here.
first and foremost as far as i am concerned, there is a real issue as far as privacy goes.
not so much privacy perhaps, as much as personal and civil liberties.
the state has almost unlimited power to control the lives of compliant citizens if they aren't stopped. at all times look for what is called "the thin end of the wedge". at what point do you mark a line.
i know of a child (ok, not child per se, 14 yrs old) who was suspended for giving a couple of nurofen tablets to a freind of hers who had period cramps.
the official write up for it was "supplying drugs". for 2 nurofen.
2 weeks suspention, and a note in her school record. for 2 nurofen.
where is the line? and who is qualified to mark it for us?
and checking for healthy lunches? WTF? who decides, and why?
what happened to education and personal responsibility?
we as a society have decided to abdicate all personal responsibility in favour of a "mother knows best " policy, allowing the government to assume all responsibility for our lives.
if you want to think of a scary sitaution, try this. what happens if, after deciding that certain foods are so bad for you that they can be banned from your life, they decide that the best way to make you safe is to decide what you can do as a hobby or sport. how long does it take to decide that riding a mountain bike is just to dangerous for people under the age of consent? or perhaps it shouldn't be allowed at all so you are safe.
if you think this all an over reaction, have a think about some of the enlightened descitions the various governments have made for us recently.
and more importantly look at the things some of the retarded muppets running around our neighbourhoods have done for us. suing macdonalds for making them fat, suing brewerys for making them alcoholics, suing car sales yards for selling them cars that allow them to lose their licence for speeding, suing tabacco companies because they can't stop smoking. and that's just a tiny sampling of the cases brought, not in the states, but out here in australia.
and yet no-one stands up and says "yep, my fault. i did it. i ate shit and got fat. i drank too much and made myself an alcholic. i drove my car too fast like a dickhead and lost my licence. i started smoking, even though i knew the risks". it's easier and more soothing to the ego to blame everyone else.
and it's the same with schools and drugs.
it's not the schools responsibility to do this. it's the parents.
it's not the governments job, it's ours.
it's not his problem, it's YOURS!
i'm only partly joking when i say to people that the great sheep-like herd of society shouldn't be allowed to breed without test to make sure they are capable of raising anything other than bottom feeding baby factories. (and yes, thank you, i am well aware of the inherent contradiction in that view, and in the opinion expoused in the rest of the post, but maybe we need to start somewhere).
but the fact remains that people need to take responsibility for their own lives, and for their own actions.
no more people bleating that it wasn't them, it was the drugs. or the booze. or their parents. or society.
just them. have reasons, not excuses.
and it all starts with parents teaching their kids some personal responsibility and discipline. it all starts with parents educating their kids to be something other than eating, drinking, spawning jerks.
so less talk about drug testing kids, and more talk about beating some sense into parents. remember that what you do is your fault, not someone elses.

hmmm, now i remember why i didn't respond to many of these. i now have an overwhelming urge to try and sterilize most of the people i meet on a day to day basis......

[Hopper]

I'm in year 12, am at what could be said to be the one of the top private schools in Adelaide, I know lots of people in my year who use marijuana. I don't know of a singal incident where someone has been under the influence of drugs at school, excpet last years Year 12 speech night where a stoned year went up on stage and sat cross legged on the floor next to the headmaster.....

I personally think that everyone has the right to fuck themselves up as much as they want, I dont want to take that right from them, unless it harms another person. This however is a shady angle as where do we draw the line at harming another person. For this reason I am against the idea, education is a better deterrant. The only time the school should have a say in this problem is if someone is stoned at school, liek the year 12 from last year after his exams and at speech night.

As a question, the random driver drug tests, how do they work? How accurate are they and how long ago did you have to use the drug to be caught. What I am gettig nat is that if they only pick up someone who would be under the influence, then I don't mind those units being used in schools.

[chriscross]

They said they will be testing the kids twice a year. How long do drugs traces stay in your system?

my doctor said to me about 2 mounths befor a ice hockey tornament that majurana stays in your system for up to 3 mounths so if i had done it then got tested i would be screwed

[|Matt|]

Im only in year 10, but as I don't know what direction I want to go in life, I do not really want someone coming in, interrupting my entire class and taking 10-20 minutes to test everyone. Even next year won't really matter that much, but in 08, if this happens I will not be happy. I do not want drug testing to fuck up my chances of getting an interesting, well paid job.

During lunchtime? Sure, go for it. During spares? Sure. Not during class. PLEASE.

[Ska-quatch]

the car testing machines picks up marijuana that has been smoked roughly 0.5 to an hour after a (single) spliff has been smoked, after that its pretty much crap unless you had a badly rolled spliff and had managed to get leaf in your teeth or something silly, while marijuana can be picked up months after by other tests, the police drugs test is fairly limited. (Infomation gathered by talking to an off duty policeman.)

[robmundall]

twice a year.. only a retard wil get caught

Well if you are saying that it will be hard to get caught because it is only done twice.
Marijuana stays in the system for 3months.
That means for 1/2 of the year you have to be drug free.
It would not be that hard.

[Cave Dweller]

I think it has its good and bad points

PRO
> Kids are too young to make informed decisions and fall into peer pressure too easy. They shouldn't really go the drug route, it never ends up well
> Stunts mental development
> Many others i could list

AGAINST
> Invasion of privacy
> What you do outside of school should be between you and your parents, not you and the school.

Basically, i feel its a push by parents (probably the PNC) for the school to do their job for them. The majority of parents these days seem too lazy, apathetic or busy to raise kids properly and are happy for schools to do these kinds of things so they don't have too.

Of course, this is a function of todays society with the pressure of owning your own home, needing to work long hours = no time with the kids, pressure for kids to have to do well or risk fucking up there entire lives (or so they are told) etc etc etc

These kinds of things can't be looked at without looking at the wider social issues, its just one little peice of the jigsaw.

[Dumbellina]

Why not make teachers, principals, school cleaners, the weirdo who maintains the school grounds take it too?

Drug tests in any place are bad news.

What should schools care about what happens outside of school? That is the parent's responsibility or if the student is old enough their responsibility.

Why should the school care that you smoke pot in the privacy of your own home with your parent consent? Its a completely different story about using the drugs at school or being under the influence of drugs.

[Tomas]

They can fuck themselves as far as i'm concerned. If they turned up at my school tomorrow i'd quite simply refuse to be tested. Its not that i have anything to hide - i dont do illicit drugs - but the school (somewhere i attend 9-5 ever day) has no right to medically test my body for drug use. That simple. I respect my rights thankyou.

[enjoi]

Before I post this, I'm going to say I'm goign to raise some controversial points. So if you dont agree with me, then dont be an asshole in response.

I am currently in year 11, and I smoke marijuana and drink regularly. I enjoy it, and I feel that in no way is it affecting my academic stature.

If they introduce drug testing, simply put, I am going to drop out of school and get an apprenticeship. I think many users carry the same opinion. Schools have no right to intrude on life outside of school hours.

Many people also say that school students are to young to make decisions. I really fucking hate people telling me that. If you are one of these people, I dont need YOU, a random intrusive prick telling, telling ME how to live my life.

If I'm not affecting you, and not costing you anything, why is it any of your buisness, why do you care.

As for the education side of drug use, we HAVE been educated, for 4 years, we have education on drugs, so I beleive we do have the knowledge to formulate an opinion as to whether or not we should use drugs.


Simple, drug tests in schools and many students will leave.

Dont flame me for using, I've heard it before.

rant over

[Topple's]

Before I post this, I'm going to say I'm goign to raise some controversial points. So if you dont agree with me, then dont be an asshole in response.

I am currently in year 11, and I smoke marijuana and drink regularly. I enjoy it, and I feel that in no way is it affecting my academic stature.

If they introduce drug testing, simply put, I am going to drop out of school and get an apprenticeship. I think many users carry the same opinion. Schools have no right to intrude on life outside of school hours.

Many people also say that school students are to young to make decisions. I really fucking hate people telling me that. If you are one of these people, I dont need YOU, a random intrusive prick telling, telling ME how to live my life.

If I'm not affecting you, and not costing you anything, why is it any of your buisness, why do you care.

As for the education side of drug use, we HAVE been educated, for 4 years, we have education on drugs, so I beleive we do have the knowledge to formulate an opinion as to whether or not we should use drugs.


Simple, drug tests in schools and many students will leave.

Dont flame me for using, I've heard it before.

rant over

Well ranted, and i have to agree in that yes it is your decision and yes you (should) have had plenty of education about drugs (by year 10). Any teacher should not be imposing their beliefs on you but providing the reasons/background as to why people have these beliefs. I have no problem with people saying what they believe to students just as long as they dont try to force them to think the same way.
Can i ask 1 question though, have you ever used or been effected while at school?

[enjoi]

Never, and I dont plan to. I come to school to learn, and I know drugs will hinder that.

Appreciate your reply.
Thanks

[Cave Dweller]

If they introduce drug testing, simply put, I am going to drop out of school and get an apprenticeship. I think many users carry the same opinion. Schools have no right to intrude on life outside of school hours.

Agree. Like i said, it should be between you and your parents, but there are pros and cons for everything.

But no offence, you would serioulsy drop out of school so you could continue smoking pot?

Many people also say that school students are to young to make decisions. I really fucking hate people telling me that. If you are one of these people, I dont need YOU, a random intrusive prick telling, telling ME how to live my life.


Better get used to it champ. People will be telling you what to do with your life until the day you die (your mum, your wife, the government, the bank, the nurse in the nursing home). You just need to ignore it, not get your back up about it :D

If you want to smoke and drink then go ahead and do it, no one is going to stop you.

[enjoi]

.

But no offence, you would serioulsy drop out of school so you could continue smoking pot?



Thinking of dropping out anyway, so probably yes, sad as it sounds. That would probably just be the last small thing that makes me dislike school so much.

[johnny]

I'm all for drug testing in schools.

How else will a kid be able to tell if their dealer has sold them substandard gear?





PS, Lupine, I'll send you a copy of my 18 000 word thesis on China that is currently taking most of my time ;-]

[Mo]

If you want to smoke and drink then go ahead and do it, no one is going to stop you.

very right.

enjoi: you will hear this again for a long long time, there are other ways and i know one day you will realise it.
everyone tends to get a grip on things after some time.
however i'd like to know what is your daily intake if it's private then pm me.

[enjoi]

Not daily, weekly. Only on weekends during my freetime.

But remember, this thread is about drug testing in schools, not enjoi's drug habits.

[fattyandthepiemakers]

Onya Enjoi! It's great to hear a view such as yours on this touche topic. You have said what some of us aren't brave enough to say on the internet... :)

[Dunc]

we had some coppers in to school to talk to us (the year 12's) about road accidents and stuff like that. what was related to taht was drug use. they told us that as soon as next year there will be similar to RBTs the equivelant for marijuana! they explained that it could detect any hash in your system for up to a month in the past!

watch out marijuana smokers!

these drug tests in schools? i dunno.. its pretty controversial. the tests would have to be random though? although the lady said it would only be twice a year some of the kids could just stop for a few weeks around a test date. easy. but the punishments dont sound very severe either. councelling? to your average hard ass that is pretty easy to push over. the kids who are generally using the drugs enjoy it so i suppose it would be easy to just go through councelling and convince everyone that your fine.

ive done that before with councelling, easy as to convince them that your fine.

[enjoi]

Thanks fatty!

Also, a majority of children are most afraid of parental punishment and disappointment, not fines or police intervention, dunc.

[johnny]

Also, a mojority of children are most afraid of parental punishment and disappointment, not fines or police intervention, dunc.That is one of the truest (sp???) things I've ever seen written on this site.

Zero tolerance creates policies of exclusion. Excluding children from the mainstream of society because they are "anti-social" becomes a self fulfilling prophecy for adult life and creates even greater problems. People with issues should be handled with greater care, effort and interest than those who are coping without and problems at all. Unless testing at school is used to identify future issues and indicate those who need greater assistance, a policy of testing will only create greater problems for the future.

I've no experience and very minimal education in these matters of social engineering. I became more involved in drugs when I left school and had money to spend on them. I did just fine back then and am still cruising now. Not all drug use predicts nor precedes social issues and costs.

[treggs]

Sick. So naturally you'll have no problem with me secretly following you around 24/7 reporting anything and everything to your parents and/or the cops, because you do nothing wrong? I'm betting you'd get pretty sick of having YOUR privacy invaded all the time.

Fuck em, it's an invasion of privacy and just another removal of the basic right of every person to do whatever the hell they want provided it's not harming anyone else. Unless people have a good reason to believe that you are taking drugs and that it is negatively affecting other people, they can just shove it up their respective arses - it's none of their business. Same goes for random breath tests/drug tests on the road - unless they have a reason to suspect that you ARE drunk or under the influence of drugs, they shouldn't be able to test you for it (although in the road testing case they at least have the argument that you MIGHT be intrinsically putting other people at risk - flawed argument IMO but that's another story). If someone is high/stoned/whatever at school, as long as they're not causing dramas for other students (or staff), who cares? They're not endangering anyone, they're not having any negative effects on the place, so why on earth should they be harassed about drugs, without their consent?

And for the record, I don't take any kind of illicit drugs, so it wouldn't affect me anyway.

I was gonna type a bunch of stuff but S said it the way I wanted (and couldn't think of). Thanks S.

BTW I get "randomly" tested at least once a year in my job and they will show me the door if I'm positive. I don't have a problem with that because I fix planes....

Spend the money on getting the drugs off the street rather than telling them they can't do it. If they can't have them then they can't do em....

Let's not forget that illicit drugs are ILLEGAL for a reason. And so is booze for school kiddies. Perhaps their should be more focus on "Responsible parenting"....

</end rant>

[johnny]

Let's not forget that illicit drugs are ILLEGAL for a reason. Yeah, but many of those reasons are stupid. Heroine is far more effective than morphine for medical procedures yet it cannot be used because it is 'illegal'. Marajuana is good for glaucoma patients, chemo patients, etc. but it is illegal so they go without. There are many good arguments against the drug policies of developed countries and I have no idea how to spell glaucoma.

[Dunc]

parental dissapointment.. i must admit i didnt think of that.. touche! does marijuana really help with chemo?

[Binaural]

parental dissapointment.. i must admit i didnt think of that.. touche! does marijuana really help with chemo?

Yeah, it's a very effect anti-nausea agent. And, it must be said, it helps you to relax during a very difficult time.

[Dunc]

srs? anti nausea? oh f(*&! why isnt it legal then? would make things so much more easier! damn politicians!

[Mo]

Heroine is far more effective than morphine for medical procedures yet it cannot be used because it is 'illegal'.
i dont know about the medical properties of heroin but heroin gets synthesised (sp?) into morphine in your body so it can get absorbed.
srs? anti nausea?
marijuana as in thc is an anti puke drug. although some people still puke.

[Dunc]

yeh.. i know what anti nausea means. they should make it legal for cancer sufferers. something new to try to stop nausea.. or to just get high and forget about life. either way

[robmundall]

Same goes for random breath tests/drug tests on the road - unless they have a reason to suspect that you ARE drunk or under the influence of drugs, they shouldn't be able to test you for it
I don't agree with you there,
When people drink drive/high drive, they are putting others lives at risk.
And people are doing it, it is evidand at the amount of people caught for drink driving and also the amount of crashes that involve alcohol on weekends (more than 50% to my memory).
If there is a way to combat this behavour THAT PUT'S OTHERS AT RISK I am all for it.
hey explained that it could detect any hash in your system for up to a month in the past!

Now this is bullshit,
If someone tests positive for having smoked in last 30days or whatever do they get charged?
If so, that is wrong, unless it is putting others at risk I don't care.
If there is a way to test if the person is currently under the influnce of the drug and they are caught driving, I agree with it.

Like I said earlier, I don't not agree with this.
What I do out of school is none of there busniess, they have no right to tell me what to do out of school. I can smoke as much as I want and they can go do themselves.

Also, as another member said, Marijuana stays in you for 3months, where as the harder drugs like E can be detected for 3days.
This will cause kids to start using the harder drugs becaue they do not want to get caught and have to face there parent's (which I worry about the most).

[Dunc]

Now this is bullshit,
If someone tests positive for having smoked in last 30days or whatever do they get charged?
If so, that is wrong, unless it is putting others at risk I don't care.
If there is a way to test if the person is currently under the influnce of the drug and they are caught driving, I agree with it.



well, its still illegal? doesnt matter if it was the last 30 days or not! if you stole a car thirty days ago and the cops caught you are they just going to let you go claiming that it was thirty days ago? i know thats a bad description but meh

[sockman]

yeh.. i know what anti nausea means. they should make it legal for cancer sufferers. something new to try to stop nausea.. or to just get high and forget about life. either way


if you want to get hogh and forget just take valium!!


as has been said previously, only students who show signs of being on drugs or students who are preventing the other tudents from learning should be tested...


enjoi, it looks like we have a lot in common, and although i smoke the occasional cone, i still acheive bloody well academically(sp???)

[S.]

I don't agree with you there,
When people drink drive/high drive, they are putting others lives at risk.
And people are doing it, it is evidand at the amount of people caught for drink driving and also the amount of crashes that involve alcohol on weekends (more than 50% to my memory).
If there is a way to combat this behavour THAT PUT'S OTHERS AT RISK I am all for it.

Unless they have reason to believe you have been drinking or taking drugs (which is actually a fair call on a Saturday night in a rowdy area, for example, because a lot of people WILL have been drinking nearby), I don't believe they should be allowed to test you for it. It is quite literally Gestapo-like to check people for crimes without any reason to suspect they could or would have been involved in them, and this is exactly the same as the reason why police are not allowed to search your house without a warrant. Yeah "if you've got nothing to hide then why are you worried blah blah" - you are handing your personal rights and liberties to the government and/or associated "authorities" on a plate by simply accepting this kind of thing. Go for your life chucking away your own rights, but you ever try and take them from me and I'll tell you where to shove it. Oh and for what it's worth, the only laws I obey are the physical ones. If I happen to comply with governmental ones it's because it suits me, not because I agreed to their terms. Physics says they can try and punish me, it also says I can do whatever I like to avoid that punishment.

This situation is also different from accepting a job, as Treggs said, where the safety of other people hinges directly on you being able to certifiably perform your duties, and you accept this condition when you take the job. Doing this kind of crap in schools is a complete and utter waste of time - whether it will achieve anything is absolutely debatable (and I would guess that it would do fuck all good anyway), and at no stage does it ever allow the students the freedom to make their own choices. It's so easy to criticise kids for their lack of life experience and say they don't know what's good for them, but that's beside the point - they are at the point where it can reasonably be said that it's THEIR choice NOT YOURS. Yeah go nuts trying to educate/influence them, but making someone else's decisions for them when they have the faculties to do so, is absolutely THE most fundamental violation of human rights, and it underpins all the other kinds of tyranny.

[Drizz]

whether it will achieve anything is absolutely debatable.......

Yes! All the self serving politicans are going to crash back to earth when their 13-18 yo offsprings get busted cause their father did bugger all to understand the life they living.

What always makes me wonder is that are these tests limited to public school only or both public and private school? I wouldn't be surprise the rate of drug addiction is roughly the same between well off private schools and public school in less well off suburbs.

Once again thank the media for coming up with yet another solution thats novel but do not solve the core problem, isn't this issue about teen drug addiction? How will tests stop teens from experimenting with drugs? There were similar talks of banning mobile phones in NSW schools because some 13 yo download topless chick on their phone. (I wouldn't even call it porn FFS) Good luck enforcing that! :mad:

Heres a novel solution of my own to drugs in school: Home schooling! Takes the whole peer pressure factor out of the equation. Now where can I find a journalist to drum up a story on ACA? :D

[floody]

Yes! All the self serving politicans are going to crash back to earth when their 13-18 yo offsprings get busted cause the poor spoilt little shits just couldn't maintain a bit of self control...


Fixed that.

[johnny]

i dont know about the medical properties of heroin but heroin gets synthesised (sp?) into morphine in your body so it can get absorbed.
As far as my education on the matter goes, you've got it the wrong way around. Morphine is heroine with two extra molecules. These two molecules slow the rate of its passing through the blood brain barrier and drop off when in the brain itself to become heroine. The only difference in using heroine is that it is effective much quicker than morphine and therefore more useful as a pain killer.

[sockman]

Heres a novel solution of my own to drugs in school: Home schooling! Takes the whole peer pressure factor out of the equation. Now where can I find a journalist to drum up a story on ACA? :D


wouldn't the chasers have a field day of that one!!

[division_4]

If you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to hide.

exactly..i wouldnt have a problem with it..its a good idea in a way

[johnny]

And what way is that?

[S.]

And what way is that?


The way that doesn't affect you directly and is thus morally righteous and acceptable!

[I-AM-TEH-FASTEST-11]

man if they did drug tests when I was in school.. just being in the room with me would have made everyone fail the test

[5PIDEY]

fuck i hope they do it at our school, every dickhead is fucked up on something. stoner bashin' time.

[Mo]

As far as my education on the matter goes, you've got it the wrong way around. Morphine is heroine with two extra molecules. These two molecules slow the rate of its passing through the blood brain barrier and drop off when in the brain itself to become heroine. The only difference in using heroine is that it is effective much quicker than morphine and therefore more useful as a pain killer.

im sorry but your wrong, you can be correct with the 2 molecules,
heroin -->morphine-->readable by opiate receptors.

also 100% pure heroin will kill before there is any effect, it has to be dirty for it to be usable.

[luke_rowell]

People complain about the invasionof privacy becuase someone wants to do a drug test in schools, once you break the law in the societ yyou live in you give up all your rights as someone living in that society. It's like those poeple that complain and try and fight a speeding tickit becuase they didnt see or know that there was a speed camera there.
if you do drugs and get cuaght deal with it, if you dont like the consequences from your actions change your action.

i have always been taught that if you dont like the consequences of your action dont do it.

[johnny]

I hate having to wipe my bum, does that mean I should stop going to the toilet?

[scblack]

also 100% pure heroin will kill before there is any effect, it has to be dirty for it to be usable.

As far as I am aware that is COMPLETELY wrong.

What has impurities got to do with effects of ANYTHING?

Pure heroine does not kill at all. It is impurities that kill.

[johnny]

Yeah sorry Mo, but you ARE wrong with this. I will try and track down my old notes from Neuro-psych to give you the correct run down. BTW, getting info like this from mates is not the most reliable source!

[S.]

People complain about the invasionof privacy becuase someone wants to do a drug test in schools, once you break the law in the societ yyou live in you give up all your rights as someone living in that society. It's like those poeple that complain and try and fight a speeding tickit becuase they didnt see or know that there was a speed camera there.
if you do drugs and get cuaght deal with it, if you dont like the consequences from your actions change your action.

i have always been taught that if you dont like the consequences of your action dont do it.

WTF? You do NOT give up your rights as someone living in that society - you may be subject to a punishment IF you are caught, but that's a separate issue. PM me your address, I'm going to follow you around day and night for a month and punish you for every single misdemeanour you perform. Anything the slightest bit illegal will result in me dragging your sorry arse to the cop station. Don't like it? WELL YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING ANYTHING WRONG THEN SHOULD YOU.

[wombat]

People complain about the invasionof privacy becuase someone wants to do a drug test in schools, once you break the law in the societ yyou live in you give up all your rights as someone living in that society. It's like those poeple that complain and try and fight a speeding tickit becuase they didnt see or know that there was a speed camera there.
if you do drugs and get cuaght deal with it, if you dont like the consequences from your actions change your action.

i have always been taught that if you dont like the consequences of your action dont do it.
Yeap, because democracies work best when everyone shuts up and just puts up with the status quo, rather than speaking up for their beliefs.:rolleyes:

Yes, we generally do have to accept the legal ramifications of our actions, but that does not mean that we can't discuss the validity of the laws/rules in the first place. Obey laws because you believe in the value behind the law, not merely because it is the law.

[T-Bone]

also 100% pure heroin will kill before there is any effect, it has to be dirty for it to be usable.

Thats very incorrect. Pure Herion will get someone even higher than impure and has the exact same potential to kill someone. The only difference is with pure is someone knows what they are getting and can self administer the right dose. The reason so many herion deaths occur is because one week a junkie will get 50% pure and use .5g, then next week get 75% pure and use .5g and the extra herion kills them.

[TonyG]

With out being too much of a kill joy, I’d just like to say one thing to all you young pot users out there. My dear mother councils disabled students at Tafe, and half her student body are ex pot smokers with drug induced mental illness (maybe better wording needed there but you know what I mean). I'm sure there are a few brainy students on here who will try and discredit that pot smoking causes this, but I have seen both these students and a few of my school friends fall into mental illness bought on by heavy pot smoking. One very good friend who killed himself. Now I’m NOT for random test, but I am for education. I’m not going telling you what to do, I’ve tried different drugs as I grew up, but don’t think it is with out its risks.
Heavy pot smoking can cause irreversible mental illness. I have one mate the doctors have told will never be able to work again due to his mental illness. He was only about 20 when it set in. He will now have to spend the rest of his life with his parents, and when they cant look after him any more, he will have to go to a home. It doesn’t sound too great to me. I have other mates who still smoke daily and 30 have no real side effects, but that is just the luck of the draw, not good management.

[murrum]

You are onto something there Tony. I am not a health worker, but my wife, a Psych who worked for Community mental health in a NSW Country Town will testify wholeheartedly.

Since moving here from Syd she is amazed at the prevalence of mental illness, the majority of which can be directly linked to abuse of pot (low employment opportunities for the young = boredom = pot smoking).

Its the strength these days, supe strong breeds that have serious implications for your brain chemistry.

Like Tony - dont wanna be a killjoy, but....

[cuts and bones will heal]

IMO the whole idea of tests in schools is indeed a very flimsy one. what will it achive in the long run? what happens when the goverment proves what these people do in private? they go to a councillor play the game and pretend they're sorry, and that they heve changed their ways?

as it was mentioned before the disapprovale of parents IMO is 10x worse than a slap on the wrist from the cops. This would cost thousands (millions?) of taxpayers dollars, which would be in far better use crushing the supply chain...