Japan must stop whaling.

[Bodin]

I just heard on JJJ news this morning that Japan plans to raise its "scientific" whale killings in the southern oceans from 400 to over 900, including 10 endangered Fin Whales.

:mad: :mad: :mad: This makes me so mad.:mad: :mad: :mad:

My feeling on the matter is that the planet will never be short of human beings, but with the actions of the Japanese and certain other countries, we may well be very short of whales in the future.

Until this madness stops, I will be making it my personal business to express my disgust to those involved. Anybody got any advice on the best way I can do this? I guess joining Greenpeace would be a start...

[Drizz]

Until this madness stops, I will be making it my personal business to express my disgust to those involved. Anybody got any advice on the best way I can do this? I guess joining Greenpeace would be a start...

No Greenpeace are a shadow of the organisation they were from the 70s and 80s. We needed to educate the ordniary Japanese folks about whales, so they can go back to their own country and make some noise against the pro-whaling mob.

We can lobby as hard as we like, make as much noise as we like and ram their boats with green coloured rust buckets. Ultimately they will just see it as a bunch of "Gaijin" trying to impose upon Japanese culture. Changes come from within IMO.

[Binaural]

The irony is that whale meat is not actually very popular in Japan and the trend is downwards. I gather the whole issue over hunting whales has more to do with Japanese nationalism than a desire to protect a tradional food source.

[Dozer]

Until this madness stops, I will be making it my personal business to express my disgust to those involved. Anybody got any advice on the best way I can do this? I guess joining Greenpeace would be a start...

I reckon the best way would be to jump in your neighbours tinny with a shotgun and find the wankers that are killing whales...........that'd stuff them right up.:rolleyes:
I also hate the fact that whales are being slaughtered and it is disgusting in the way they do it. I don't condone their methods or reasons for doing it whatsoever. However, when push comes to shove it is not really any different to breeding cattle, sheep and chickens so we can put them on our dinner plate and enjoy the meat. Harsh reality I know but as long as their is consumer demand it will continue.
Go for the shotgun in a tinny trick.;)

[toodles]

However, when push comes to shove it is not really any different to breeding cattle, sheep and chickens so we can put them on our dinner plate and enjoy the meat. Harsh reality I know but as long as their is consumer demand it will continue.

Maybe if they were breeding whales for their meat it would be comparable.

[Binaural]

Maybe if they were breeding whales for their meat it would be comparable.

And if cows were an endangered species.

[Bodin]

However, when push comes to shove it is not really any different to breeding cattle, sheep and chickens so we can put them on our dinner plate and enjoy the meat. Harsh reality I know but as long as their is consumer demand it will continue.

Couldn't disagree with you more on the comparison. There is no shortage of domesticated farm animals in the world and Binaural has already pointed out that commercial/consumer demand for the end product of whaling is on the decline.

Whaling is a disgusting practice and needs to be outlawed.

[McBain]

Tim Flannery raises an interesting point in "The Future Eaters" that maybe we need to consider eating whales as part of a sustainable food industry. (If the land can't support current grazing, then maybe whale stocks can supplement it.)

However that in no way is what the Japanese "scientific" whaling thing is all about - and I highly doubt Flannery would support the current methods of harpooning and dragging the whales around until they die.

I think it was Catalyst that got a bunch of research scientists to dig through the literature to see if there was anything produced by Japanese scientists in the area of whale research that had made peer-reviewed journals. Results: essentially zero.

[Drizz]

Whaling is a disgusting practice and needs to be outlawed.

I agree with that, but that just one infringement against animal welfare which has the public attention. Things like battery hens, livestock shipment are all ethically questionable but barely rates a mention.

[hwbrodiek]

Here is a link to the episode of Catalyst that McBain is talking about

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1657789.htm

From the transcript:

Prof Archer: Alright, that’s it. And from that whole pile of papers we’ve got a total of one, two, three, four papers that can be said to be peer reviewed, that have some relevance to developing or managing a whaling industry and also would require lethal sampling of whales to get that information. Just four papers.

Nick Gales: So with the eighteen year program and sixty eight hundred whales divided by four papers - that means 1700 whales killed for each one of those four papers.

[MrPlow]

Can I harpoon the Japanese whalers? I need to conduct some scientific studies on them.

[bazza]

this is closer to breeding monkeys for eating than farm animals. the social organisations and interactions of whales is incredible. im sure japan could get far more out of whale 'research' by sat tagging them instead of killing them. its freakin incredibly mind blowing how stupid it is. the fact they are taking SO many of so many different species. humpbacks may be sustainable in 15-20 years but not even close to that atm. and than i doubt they would be sustainable to provide a food source for an entire nation.

if anyone is looking for one of the best wildlife experiences in the world check out undersea explorer a research/tourist live aboard vessel that leaves from port douglas doing minkie whale research trips and takes 20 tourists on board along with it. amazing experience and a 5 star chef as well. well worth the $2500 price tag.

[murrum]

i dont have a problem in the eating of whales - apparnetly quite tasty. Its just the method used to kill them.

Their numbers have increaseed enormously since whaling was banned, I see no problem in harvesting them.

The effort, publicity and general community outrage around protecting them far outweighs what is needed - there are much greater environmental and social crimes commited all the time than killing the rodents of the sea, as I call them.;)

And while we are on the subject of sea mammals - the sexual practices of dolphins make me sick....Hmm I wonder what they taste like.:eek:

[Customjimmy]

They are going to do all this in Australian Antarctic Territory waters too! Though not many countries recognise Australia's claim to these waters, you'd think we would! Especially considering the gung-ho spud-monkeys who are currently running the show. Howard would rather send the planet to hell in a hand-basket than risk his beloved export market. Tool.

[Bodin]

I agree with that, but that just one infringement against animal welfare which has the public attention. Things like battery hens, livestock shipment are all ethically questionable but barely rates a mention.

Guys, please stop making comparisons between the slaughter of whales and the slaughter of domesticated animals that are specifically bred for food.

I agree that the treatment of farm animals is abysmal, but I don't care about that nearly as much as I care about the possible extinction of creatures that may never be replaced once gone from this earth.

Chooks and livestock are not relevant to this thread.

[bazza]

Guys, please stop making comparisons between the slaughter of whales and the slaughter of domesticated animals that are specifically bred for food.

I agree that the treatment of farm animals is abysmal, but I don't care about that nearly as much as I care about the possible extinction of creatures that may never be replaced once gone from this earth.

Chooks and livestock are not relevant to this thread.

it sort of is because they are relating it to a food source. which everyone is realising is totally unsustainable except that idiot before.

but at the end of the day you can't control what whales do. where as you can with chickens/cows.

and the fact they are vastly more intelligent (social structures communication etc etc) does put them way way afar from domestic animals.

its almost as retarded as drinking milk. ewwwwww.

[thecat]

And if cows were an endangered species.

and if cows tasted 100 x nicer....


The Japanese still haven't worked out why the bastards die when you harpoon them and until they do this sceintific research needs to continue. [insert sarcastic emocion here]


Ironically The Japanese only started eating whale meet during WW2 when food shortages and trade restrictions meant they had to eat what they could get.

[bazza]

Ironically The Japanese only started eating whale meet during WW2 when food shortages and trade restrictions meant they had to eat what they could get.

can you actually back that statement up? i have heard it also but never quoted properly from a decent source.

[brisneyland]

Their numbers have increaseed enormously since whaling was banned, I see no problem in harvesting them.

Pretty sure that's untrue. I know for certain they hunt an endangered sub-species of minke, but because the total minke population has grown they claim it's alright.

It fucking well isn't.

[Alec McJo]

Er, I have a question.

Why the fuck would you need to kill over 900 whales for research? Don't Japan have any real scientists who can study just a couple or something?

:confused:

[bazza]

Er, I have a question.

Why the fuck would you need to kill over 900 whales for research? Don't Japan have any real scientists who can study just a couple or something?

:confused:

its because they are idiots and the rest of the world are pussies and won't just bring out the battle ships. norways probably going to start full scale hunting again as well.

[Mr Peabody]

Ok does anyone have a link or such we can email or such to voice our protests.

[brisneyland]

its because they are idiots and the rest of the world are pussies and won't just bring out the battle ships. norways probably going to start full scale hunting again as well.

As a point of interest, Japan sent warships down into Antarctic waters (Australian Antarctic waters if I'm not mistaken) to 'guard' their whaling fleet. Provocative, to say the least.

[Mr Peabody]

They are going to do all this in Australian Antarctic Territory waters too! Though not many countries recognise Australia's claim to these waters, you'd think we would! Especially considering the gung-ho spud-monkeys who are currently running the show. Howard would rather send the planet to hell in a hand-basket than risk his beloved export market. Tool.

Totally agree that Howard is a tool and the only way we can show our disapproval is at the ballot box, USA got a wake up call to their recent elections and hope Australians do the same. Kim Beazley or not we need change

[Arete]

*Sigh* this whaling thing has way too much to do with emotion and way to little to do with actual fact...

The facts of the matter are that in reality, there is very little known about the abundance of most species of whale, or the replacement rates of whales. Preliminary study suggests that whale replacement rates could be quite high *scurries off to the databases to dig up some papers* As such, 900 whales could be perfectly sustainable, or it could decimate populations.

The problem lies in that the two parties involved are so opposed and full of crap that no decent research gets done. Those opposing whaling are far too "rarr rarr stop whaling... greenpeace... boats... sea shepard... protests...rarr rarr" and the Japanese response is basically "Screw you hippies, let's go kill stuff."

What needs to be done is to sit down, work out sustainiable whaling levels and form a responsible approach. We need to stop supporting and letting fundamentalist, radical mentailites dictate the way we approach whaling and do it properly.

Screw Greenpeace and Sea Shepard for misinforming everyone and pissing of the whaling nations to a point where they don't care what we say.

*Climbs off soapbox*

[Macr]

Can I harpoon the Japanese whalers? I need to conduct some scientific studies on them.
Hack on JJJ once rang up the Japanese high commission and informed them that they were starting to hunt Japanese for scientific purposes and was only going to kill 200 a year. They were doing it only to save the Japanese species!

[thecat]

can you actually back that statement up? i have heard it also but never quoted properly from a decent source.

No, I can't remember where I read it but this http://luna.pos.to/whale/jwa_trad.html would suggest that it is in fact wrong.

[johnny]

Can I harpoon the Japanese whalers? I need to conduct some scientific studies on them.You have my full permission, go right ahead.

[S.]

*Sigh* this whaling thing has way too much to do with emotion and way to little to do with actual fact...

The facts of the matter are that in reality, there is very little known about the abundance of most species of whale, or the replacement rates of whales. Preliminary study suggests that whale replacement rates could be quite high *scurries off to the databases to dig up some papers* As such, 900 whales could be perfectly sustainable, or it could decimate populations.

The problem lies in that the two parties involved are so opposed and full of crap that no decent research gets done. Those opposing whaling are far too "rarr rarr stop whaling... greenpeace... boats... sea shepard... protests...rarr rarr" and the Japanese response is basically "Screw you hippies, let's go kill stuff."

What needs to be done is to sit down, work out sustainiable whaling levels and form a responsible approach. We need to stop supporting and letting fundamentalist, radical mentailites dictate the way we approach whaling and do it properly.

Screw Greenpeace and Sea Shepard for misinforming everyone and pissing of the whaling nations to a point where they don't care what we say.

*Climbs off soapbox*

Hey, who the hell asked for logic? This is teh intarnets. Besides, everyone knows the Japanese just like extinctering whole species for fun.

[Drizz]

You have my full permission, go right ahead.

But wait! Aren't you God? Can't you either make more whales or make them taste like shit?:confused:

[hwbrodiek]

...there is very little known about the abundance of most species of whale, or the replacement rates of whales...900 whales could be perfectly sustainable, or it could decimate populations.

This statement alone suggests that the 'hippie' mentality is more logical. What's the worst that can happen if there is no whaling? What is the worst that can happen if we allow it to continue? What is the best thing to do when we don't have a clue what is going on?

Straight from the Rio Declaration, the freakin precautionary principle man:

"Where there are threats of serious or irreversible damage, lack of full scientific certainty shall not be used as a reason for postponing cost-effective measures to prevent environmental degradation "

[Gekigengar]

i think its because they have small penis's

for some strange reason the jap think by killing a big whale with boost the size of their male ego's. But its quite obvious its not working and they are not learning.

[Arete]

This statement alone suggests that the 'hippie' mentality is more logical. What's the worst that can happen if there is no whaling? What is the worst that can happen if we allow it to continue? What is the best thing to do when we don't have a clue what is going on?

Straight from the Rio Declaration, the freakin precautionary principle man:

"Where there are threats of serious or irreversible damage, lack of full scientific certainty shall not be used as a reason for postponing cost-effective measures to prevent environmental degradation "

I actually fully agree, however the misinformation and fallacy spread by fundamentalist "green" groups suggesting that whaling is the dastardly, evil activity it is in order to justify dangerous, deliberately damaging and violent activity pisses me off immensely.

I was pointing out that the seperation between pro and anti whaling groups and the resulting lack of progress in research is in no small part caused by the actions of these green groups and the influence that their propaganda has on the general population.

The sooner we stop listening to their bullshit, actually do the research and form a sustainable system of whale harvesting the safer the whale populations will be. However while the Australian government and IWC members are in the pockets of the radical green groups, there's no way they will be seen as legitimate by the whaling nations.

Now, I'm a pretty green kind of person, having spent the last 6 years of my life studying and working in conservation. Anyone who I've met who actually does something to help the environment thinks that organisations like Greepeace and Sea Shepard are more of a hindrance to real sustainable environmental solutions than a help.

Fundamentalists of any sort suck, be they muslims, christians, economists or enviromentalists.

[Bodin]

Now, I'm a pretty green kind of person, having spent the last 6 years of my life studying and working in conservation. Anyone who I've met who actually does something to help the environment thinks that organisations like Greepeace and Sea Shepard are more of a hindrance to real sustainable environmental solutions than a help.

Fundamentalists of any sort suck, be they muslims, christians, economists or enviromentalists.

You're making a lot of sense. Thanks for your genuinely valuable and interesting feedback.

What can I do, though? I feel strongly that I want to voice my opposition to this in a worthwhile manner (not that having a whinge on a MTBing O/T forum doesn't make aaaallllll the difference in the world...), and I seriously don't know how I alone can tackle what seems to be an ingrained cultural issue in a culture I know nothing about... I'd like to hear about a group of people that I can support who already have their finger on the pulse.

[Mattydv]

Don't buy any Sealord products. That company is directly owned by private Japanese Long Line and Whalers. All the money goes to them so if you want to do something, although small, just DON'T BUY SEALORD.
Another example of the Japanese overfishing is in the Fijian islands. This year the Fijian government were giving 7 Long Line fishing licenses to Japanese fisherman as the number of Native fish were high, yet somehow 22 were given out. The waters in alot of places are now bare. :mad:

[Arete]

Actually Nissui (Sealord's parent company) has sold its whaling interests. http://www.greens.org.nz/searchdocs/PR9710.html Personally I'm skeptical over whether it was an environmental decision or one based on whale meat's flagging popularity in Japan.

My advice would first be education in whale research and general fishery management. DPI fisheries website http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fisheries is a good place to start.

Basically IMO we need more science in the area, hence lobbying for more funding from ARC and CSIRO etc would be good. the Australian Antarctic Division has a whale research program...

After I finished my bachelor's degree I did some volunteer work on cetacean tissue samples collected by a group named ORCA who attend whale strandings and entanglements... might be worth finding out about them if you're passionate, though I can't find anything in a quick web search.

[No Skid Marks]

No government group will ever do any work to save the whales because there's no money in it.
The greenies may be extreme but they don't outweigh the lies of governments etc by any stretch of the imagination.
Yes people are doing a lot of good work on whale research but who hears about it?
The Japanese don't need to eat whale meat,and well we don't need to eat anywhere near as much meat ourselves but it's our right to and we'll push that right with our doller,who has time to learn about what to eat instead of meat. I'm not giving up that civil liberty,it's my right,the Japs probablly think much the same.

[bazza]

ahhhhhhh this is when tourism comes into play yet again.

i just finished a stupidly intensive report on whale sharks biology and sustainable tourism practices and its amazing how much it is helped turn around local mentality onto producing sustainable tourism practices and than in turn using a share of profits from tourism activities into research $$$'s. they have now started to find out information on where whale sharks migrate to, population size, mating (they still don't even have a clue where they mate or how) and heaps of other stuff. but most of the research is coming from tourism dollars.

the same is happening with minkie whales on the great barrier reef atm just mainly using photo id techniques to study migration and breeding.

[Arete]

No government group will ever do any work to save the whales because there's no money in it.



Actually, government groups and charity groups are the only groups who do non profit driven research. The vast majority of conservation research comes out of government organisations.

I think I've justified my opinion of Green fundamentalists and the harm they do sustainable environmental strategies. For example, if Sea Shepard base themselves in IWC nations, and go out there in concrete bowed ships with the intention of ramming and sinking whaling vessels, why the hell would Japan take any proposal by those countries seriously?

The general public may not read peer reviewed scientific literature on whale research, but having empirical, published relevant scientific data to support managment decisions is important in any hunting or fishing activity you want to do sustainably and I'm pretty sure the IWC would be interested in published scientific information on whale populations.

[PINT of Stella, mate!]

I gather the whole issue over hunting whales has more to do with Japanese nationalism...

And we all know where that can lead...

;)

Seriously though, what in the name of science do whales have to do with Plasma screen TVs and mini-motos?

I think the obvious solution to this problem is to ban whaling outright but allow the Japanese to hunt hippies instead!

[murrum]

And we all know where that can lead...

;)

Seriously though, what in the name of science do whales have to do with Plasma screen TVs and mini-motos?

I think the obvious solution to this problem is to ban whaling outright but allow the Japanese to hunt hippies instead!


Now you are talking - their numbers are out of control - Its culling time.

As an aside - the howard Gov has used the whaling issue as a means to get some "green cred". Whenever there is a meeting of the IWC Aus stands up and blows its trumpet about how we are doing so much to protect whales and what a disgrace Japan and other whaling nations are....pfffffft....how about signing the Kyoto protocol and doing something worthwhile.

Whales - who cares....Who here eats tuna and other large pelargic fish...any ideas of the enviro impact there??? A shitload more than loosing a few lumbering slabs of blubber.

[NeBoS]

At the rate of population increase in Asia, some environmental scientists are presenting data that shows that the oceans will be fished-out in the next 20 years of so. Shark numbers are declining because dolphins numbers are down, tuna and salmon numbers are dwindling. Why the fuck cant they eat something else, dammit!

[Drizz]

At the rate of population increase in Asia, some environmental scientists are presenting data that shows that the oceans will be fished-out in the next 20 years of so. Shark numbers are declining because dolphins numbers are down, tuna and salmon numbers are dwindling. Why the fuck cant they eat something else, dammit!

Sushi just won't taste as good with Kangaroo meat. :(

This is a big concern as well, recent bird flu outbreak have driven people off chickens and to other meat types, surely seafood are going to take the brunt of this as they present as a "safe" alternative. Whats the point to save a few oversize sea mammals when they are going to dwindle in numbers because of depleting fish stock?

A question for the biologist/aquaculturalist (SP): How reliably can we farm some of these fish stocks and premium crustaceans that are in high demand in the Chinese resturants?

[tassiehardtail]

Yeah i went on a whale watchin cruise in south western WA in september got up close to this pod of humpbacks one of the best things i have ever seen ha ha

and there was a japanese couple on the cruise as well....

maybe they were government whaling spies......

[kizza01]

At the rate of population increase in Asia, some environmental scientists are presenting data that shows that the oceans will be fished-out in the next 20 years of so. Shark numbers are declining because dolphins numbers are down, tuna and salmon numbers are dwindling. Why the fuck cant they eat something else, dammit!

Arent dophins the predators of sharks, or are the only ones that can kill them? Wouldnt populations of sharks be up if dolphins were down then?

Will someone prove me worng on this?

[PINT of Stella, mate!]

. Why the fuck cant they eat something else, dammit!

Why the f*** do you think we have surfers?

[NeBoS]

Arent dophins the predators of sharks, or are the only ones that can kill them? Wouldnt populations of sharks be up if dolphins were down then?

Will someone prove me worng on this?

Dolphins dont eat sharks, but dolphins have been known to kill sharks - they are enemies and alies it seems - i watched a recent doco where sharks and dolphins were working together to round-up smaller fish!


Why the f*** do you think we have surfers?

I think i didnt explain that, er, good. Dolphin numbers are down so shark-fishing has been increased.