Punk?

[PINT of Stella, mate!]

Just finished reading the article below and whilst I don't necessarily agree with it (John Lydon was a hell of a lot more than Johnny Rotten) it has got me thinking.

What the hell has happened to all the punk icons?

Lydon's already disgraced himself by appearing on I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here (It's a bit like a British Celebrity Survivor) and now has his own tv show on Discovery where he cavorts around with animals.

Iggy Pop was recently in an ad in GQ for some poncy fashion designer bounding through central park in a pinstripe suit holding an umbrella.

And to top it all, I've just seen Henry Rollins presenting Full Metal Challenge on Discovery. This really does take the biscuit. It's proper daytime cable fodder. Three teams of backyard engineers build up their own all-terrain vehicles and put them to work in lame challenges such as knocking over giant bowling pins and the like. Alright, his commentary is a cut above the norm, but still...

The new guard's not really much cop either, too many bands are going down the corporate whore route of MTV friendly videos and teenage girl fanbases whilst the few bands that are keeping it real (I actually cringed when I typed that but I can't think of a better phrase) aren't exactly setting the world alight with groundbreaking material.

Maybe the punk attitude is coming in from a new direction. I'd love to say Hip-Hop is flying the flag but it too is obsessed with sucking on satans pecker (cheers Bill) for the corporate dollar.

Feel free to discuss this and also have a read of the column below from the age. My personal view is the writer's obviously never listened to much PiL or Lydon's work with Afrika Bambaata. Still, he's got a few good points...

courtesy of the age

Punk off — it's not a rotten world
Warwick McFadyen
November 19, 2006

Rock music has had many strange bedfellows in its lifetime. Some of them actually involve music and some of them involve ego and pretension.

That celebrated composer of popular music Johann Sebastian Bach entered the British High Court last week in a dispute between the band Procol Harum and its former keyboard player.

Matthew Fisher, 60, is suing to receive credit for his role in the composition of the group's greatest hit, A Whiter Shade of Pale. He claims the signature motif, the moody organ introduction and its wash of sound throughout the song, is his work, and he has not received a penny for his efforts. The man credited with the song, and hence the royalties, Gary Brooker, disputes this. In court, evidence was given that Brooker wanted to use variations of Bach's Air on a G String and Sleepers Awake in the song. But Fisher said it was he who was the Bach expert and he who wrote the organ solo.

Maybe it was the time, but Johann also played his part in the intro to one of rock's other great keyboard solos: the start of the Doors' Light My Fire. Keyboard player Ray Manzarek has said he based the distinctive intro tinkling on "Bach's circle of fifths". Remember that next time you hear it. Bach is also heavily used in heavy metal guitar solos. Remember that next time you avoid hearing them.

From Bach, it is just a semi-tone from the sublime to the ridiculous. Here's a little quiz. Name the person thus described: "This is a man who helped make people stand up and think for themselves, and in doing so helped change the world."

Gandhi? John Lennon? Martin Luther King? Nope. It's none other than John Lydon, the man formerly known as Johnny Rotten, formerly of the band the Sex Pistols.

He was the lead singer, to use the term loosely, of a punk band in Britain in the late '70s. Actually, to use any musical term in relation to the band is to flirt with the truth. But, it being the punk era, the musicality of the practitioners wasn't that important. It was the attitude, maaaaaaaaaaan. It was us versus them: a no holds barred, winner takes all, fastening pin, spiked hair, assault on not only the music business, but on society, the whole soddin' lot of it. And Mr Lydon was in the middle of it. For a very brief amount of time.

Give Johnny and his cohorts their due. They did explode upon the scene with the single God Save the Queen and then the album Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols. The single was a call to arms for England's disaffected youth: "God save the queen/the fascist regime/made you a moron/a potential H-bomb . . . and there's no future in England's dreaming."

And that was that really. The Sex Pistols went on TV, swore a lot, got banned, tried to do a tour of America, bass player died, band crumbled. Lydon went on to a career with the band Public Image Ltd, wrote an entertaining autobiography, and then found himself on the margins.

Which all leads to this: Time magazine's European edition thinks he is a hero. It has put his name alongside more than 50 others of the past 60 years of its publication as heroes. They are people who took risks "with ideas, with conventions, sometimes with life itself … All of them changed our world for the better," the magazine says.

If nothing else it elongates the meaning of the word hero. Some of the people on the list deservedly take the label, such as Solidarity leader Lech Walesa, apartheid fighter Nelson Mandela and freedom fighter Vaclav Havel. But Mr Lydon? Surely some mistake? It may seem old-fashioned, even slightly fuddy-duddy, but to earn the epithet hero requires many more things than mere raw attitude and a willingness to act upon it. It embraces sacrifice, endurance in the face of adversity and a nobility of spirit.

Perhaps, in this day and age, that is asking too much. Nobility of spirit is such a quiet trait. It has no noise, no colour, no movement to it. Damn it, it can't even be filmed and posted on the internet.

Which isn't to say the Sex Pistols did not make an impact a generation ago. They did. After all, it only takes one shot to start a world war. But how long did the Pistols stay revolutionaries?

Mr Lydon may well say, and I'm sure he has, that he and his band pricked the balloon not only of musical pomposity, but the conscience of Britain's youth. But then what? Does that make them heroes? Actually, some may say it does, given the banal radio fodder of the time (Journey, Kansas, Reo Speedway, Toto, etc).

Let's give them their due for that pin prick. But heroes? Sorry lads, not even for just one day. That would be beyond the pale.

[matnurb]

I wish i had the time to post any genuine discussion but i feel a rather large exam breathing down my neck. The punk faces of yester year however important in planting the seed if you will, may disappear, and with little loss. I feel there is reason for this [the lack of loss]: unfourtunately in their age, they no longer reflect what their music once screamed to the kids. It is however their music that will never change, will never sign to a mainstream label or get paid a meagre salary to guest star on some ridiculous TV program. I feel that literally [physically, metaphorically whatever] the face of punk [the Johnnies, vicious's etc] will always change, but its voice, however blurred by easy labelling and misinterpretation, will still echo the same meaning. Whatever meaning you fucking want.

Probably spelling mistakes, probably not very clear etc. etc.

Thanks.

[Hamsta]

John Lydons lyrics are relevant in contemporary Australian society. Holidays in the Sun, Pretty Vacant, God save the Queen. Lydon gets my vote over the BeeGees, Pink Floyd or other artists around at the time.

[E-thugin]

well most of the ramones have died. Joe Strummers dead.Sids dead.

Still got Jello Biafra. Jack Grisham, Keith Morris..

There is still a decent amount of punk icons around,

[looseunit]

I half agree with the article IMHO John Lydon was the face of punk and was important to the punk movent, but Malcome Mclarne has alot to answer for that. John Lydon is more intereseted in making money these days and is trading on his past reputation.

In my mind the one of the last great punk icons was the Late Joe Strummer. The Clash were a far more political band than the pistols ever were and they wrote the rule book for so many band that followed after them. Joe was never as outspoken as John lydon and was never about making money out of music it was about the message of the music instead. He supported many political causes and the last one he help to set up was future forest/carbon Neutral which was set to off set carbon emisions from his music which many musicans are signed up. After his death his friend and family set up a strummerville a charity for bands and musican who cant afford to recored music, with the aim of producing new music that recored companies would not be interested in.

Anyway for all you punk fans Julian Temple (filth and fury, great rock n swidle) has a new film about to come out early next year. The film is title the future is unwritten and is about the late Joe strummer, it should be interesting to say the least.

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003353439

[nizai]

Well Mick Jones is still knockin about :) I agree, I think the Clash had just a significant impact on the scene, if not more, and drew from a wider influence in music too.

N

[Dougy]

Thankfully we've still got the likes of Pennywise and Bad Religion carrying the torch, whoops, bad pun there, for what punk is really all about.

[I-AM-TEH-FASTEST-11]

like many things in life, NOFX have the words that best describe my thoughts on the matter.. a few in particular especially.. but its the gist of it realy

Lost in a sea of combat boots,
flush the bouncers with wasted youth
When did punk rock become so safe?
When did the scene become a joke?
The kids who used to live for beer and speed
now want their fries and coke
Cursing and flipping birds are not allowed,
in fact let's keep noise levels down

Must separate the church and skate!

Why don't we put pads on the kids?
Helmets, head gear and mouth pieces!
Then we could pad the floor and walls,
put cameras inside bathroom stalls
We make sure only nice bands play,
make every show a matinee
Teach kids to be all they can be,
and we could sing my country tis of thee
sweet land of liberty

When did punk rock become so safe?
I know it wasn't Duane or Fletcher,
Who put up the barricades
Like a stake in the heart,
Somehow we got driven apart

[solo]

I want conflict! I want dissent!
I want the scene to represent...
Our hatred of authority,
our fight against complacency
stop singing songs about girls and love!
You killed the owl! You freed the dove!
confrontation and politics...
Replaced with harmonies and shticks
When did punk rock become so tame?
These fucking bands all sound the same
We want our fights we want our thugs!
We want our burns we want our drugs!
where is the violent apathy?!
These fucking records are rated G!

When did punk rock become so safe?!

[Regan of Gong]

Punk rock is where a band stands up and says "Fuck it!". Then everyone else gets up and says "Fuck it!" and it's not punk rock anymore.

Best description I ever heard.

[julianwisbey]

its prety sad that henry rollands is on full metal chalange a bad ass like him needs to do something like burn somthing or someone. He was also on a jackass episode where he did a tattoo on steve-o OFF ROAD EXTREME HUCKZOR !0ne111ONE10ne

[thecat]

Ed keupper is still making great music and getting fark all recognition.

Nick Cave is still awesome live even if he isn't so punk anymore



I think Lydon gets way to much credit for punk. Sure the pistols took it to a wider audiance but weren't they just a marketing gimmick for Viviene Westwood's Bondage clothing range? :p :p :p

Before the pistols Punk was about raw angst. After it's just spikey hair, stupid clothes, loud guitars, the occassional screaming and a lot of "No body understands me" lyrics

[roasted]

as far as I'm concerned, punk is still alive, though free of many of the icons that made it what it is. you just have to dig a bit deeper to find bands that really do know what they are talking about and do uphold the punk spirit, unlike what the mass media refers to as punk: bands like aus-rotten, scum system kill, amen (the crust punk one, not the big one) all still retain the aesthetic and ideas of older punk.

[E-thugin]

exactly..
U just gotta search, if ya look hard enough u will find good punk bands. (under ground & local is the best in my opinion)..

Dont bother listening to the radio (unless it 4zzz brisbane) or watching chanel V or mtv
, coz u wont find it,, the so called ""punk music"" mtv airs makes a mockery of what punk is..

the old bands are still kickin around just recently. i saw radio birdman & anti nowhere league..

[Rik]

Punk as an attitude is definately coming in electronic music... no longer is a 3 piece playing 3 chords in 3 minute songs the epitome of punk, the aggression angst and rebellion can be expressed by anyone with a PC that's willing to belt out some noise.

[roasted]

you could say that punk is coming to all sorts of music. someone like sage francis brings the punk spirt to hip hop, and there are many 'folk' artists carrying on in the punk vein.

disregard my earlier post, wasnt well thought out.

[PINT of Stella, mate!]

as far as I'm concerned, punk is still alive, though free of many of the icons that made it what it is. you just have to dig a bit deeper to find bands that really do know what they are talking about and do uphold the punk spirit, unlike what the mass media refers to as punk: bands like aus-rotten, scum system kill, amen (the crust punk one, not the big one) all still retain the aesthetic and ideas of older punk.

This is what I was getting at in my original post though. The 'true' punk bands have dug themselves so deep underground that their music only reaches a select group of chin-strokers. It's no way to run a revolution!

If anything I'd probably consider a band like the Dresden Dolls with their jaunty show tunes about back street abortions and disasterous sex-changes to be more punk than a lot of yer traditional guitar-bass-drums-piercings acts

[chie]

More evidence that punk is disappearing/dead is the closure of CBGB's. The last I read about it was a few weeks ago, I think on the eve of its closure, the owner said that he wanted to move it all to Vegas. (1)
If that action doesn't say that Punk's dead I don't know what does.

<edit> (1) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6054042.stm thanks stella;

"Kristal told MTV News that the club, which is being kicked out of its longtime Bowery location by its landlord, would reopen in Vegas sometime in 2008.

"We want to take a lot of this stuff with us, and I think we're going to move to Las Vegas," Kristal told MTV, who also said he'll start taking his club apart as early as September. "I have some developers who have some really great space in the downtown area. So, I'd say sometime in spring we'll be in Las Vegas. It's a big undertaking, and these developers are putting the money into it, and I want to make sure that, for my benefit and theirs, we make this work."

Kristal said he intends to take the spirit of the club with him as well, adding that the new location "won't be the same size or the same shape, but I am going to have all the things that matter there."

"I am taking the bars with me, I am taking the stage--I'm taking the urinal that Joey [Ramone] p---ed in with me. I'm going to take a lot of things--anything that makes this place CBGB.""

[bazza]

More evidence that punk is disappearing/dead is the closure of CBGB's. The last I read about it was a few weeks ago, I think on the eve of its closure, the owner said that he wanted to move it all to Vegas.
If that action doesn't say that Punk's dead I don't know what does.

reference needed.

[PINT of Stella, mate!]

T'is true! Debbie Harry and Patti Smith played the last gigs...

Read all about it here...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6054042.stm

[Hamsta]

Ladies and Gentlemen, put your heads togethor for the Dead Kennedies. Fast, furious and social commentary that is both dark and at times bittersweet. Add to that a very very unique sound. Lyrics with longevity. Perhaps an iconic punk band?

Perhaps the term 'punk' isnt relevant anymore unless used in a historical context.

Maybe 'Sunk' describes the new crop of bands?

[E-thugin]

CBGB in veagas will be shit!!
music history was made in the NYC. CBGB'S..

yeah Pattie smith played the last show the other month...

[bazza]

hahaha vegas. damnit that rules.

will be more of a novelty thing than anything. definetly some valid points made about it moving into alomst every genre though. doesnt have to be a ramones/shit pistols/whatever other band. i love my cbgb dvd with madball/h20/harleys war/cro mags/poison idea doing live sets. rules hard.

[Rik]

Best CBGBs thing I've heard is Merzbow playing with Alec Empire DJ'ing and MC'ing, back in the mid 90's. You wanted PUNK? You got it :cool:
Forget boundries, forget rules, forget everything you know about music.

[betelnut]

What I do is real, it's war out there.
G. G. Allin

GG got it right when he called Rollins a "corporate fuckboy".

"Punk" got sold to the marketing dicks and fashion wankers - there is nothing more depressing than seeing some teenage twat with no idea about music wearing a New York Dolls t-shirt. It makes me feel unwell. I guess punk music itself is still around, but it aint Blink182 or any of that shit. Billy Childish/Buff Medways is still pretty punk to me. And he's in his 40s.

[konasaurus]

i just bought bad brains at cbgb's dvd im the punkest mother fucker !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 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[konasaurus]

what about D.R.I

[Joy]

as long as Simple Plan are around, punk is not dead.:D

[I-AM-TEH-FASTEST-11]

nofx are touring in feb..... ILL BE THERE

[Rik]

http://diepunkdeath.com/