Athiests: What will you say if we've got it wrong?

[Techno Destructo]

Just thought I'd split this up from the Jesus camp thing.

I was heavily religious when I was young. As I grew older, read, learned and expanded my horizons, I slowly lost my religion. I'm comfortably atheist now (have been for the last 20 years... I'm 35 now).

Because of the correct argument that you can neither completely confirm or deny the existance of a higher power, I've always wondered what would happen when I close my eyes for the last time, then open them again, and BANG! I'm standing in front of god (well, if this happens, hopefully we get to speak to him/her in person, and not just some clerk/teller/servant/etc... up there).

What would the conversation go like?

ME: Hoooolllleee-whoops! I shouldn't be saying that stuff, should I? Sorry 'bout that!

GOD: It's alright... like they say in advertising, any publicity is good publicity, right?

ME: Hey, I'm really sorry about not believing in you, eh? But, really, you can't blame me... Evolution and science have REALLY solid arguments against you, and you've been... well, kinda absent. You're all powerful right? You should have got that burning bush gig again, but like... do it on world-wide tv! Or live at the Superbowl or something like that! We just needed more clear cameos from you... not stuff that science has explained over and over again... So, uh... how'd I do? Life-wise?

--- I'd like to think he thought I was a nice guy, who always tried to do the right thing, and look out for others. As for not believing in him, he wouldn't hold it against me, since it's my actions that determine the kind of person I am, and not what deity I believe in.


He'd probably wag the finger at me for throwing my downstairs neighbour's cigarette butts (which she throws out her window onto the lawn) back in through her open window though. (But really, she throws them out her window first, and they're always completely out when I throw them back in....).

[dcrofty]

Simple. I haven't got it wrong so I won't have to say anything.

[siz]

Hmmmm.."Got any spare change?"

[Techno Destructo]

Simple. I haven't got it wrong so I won't have to say anything.

Ah, but y'see, we can't REALLY prove that, right? Because of the way god "exists"... as in... humans can't really test for his existence, right?

I guess I'm an atheist who can accept the possibility of being wrong? But I guess I'll find out when I die. ;)

[thecat]

My mate has an interesting theory:

Do what ever you want and then repent on your death bed just in case :p

Me, I just like doing nice things because they are nice things to do not because some god is going to punish me forever if I don't

[dcrofty]

Ah, but y'see, we can't REALLY prove that, right? Because of the way god "exists"... as in... humans can't really test for his existence, right?

Nah I'm not getting sucked into this vortex.

[toodles]

I'd be like - hey man! you owe me a foreskin!

Nah, I'm more inclined to blame Him for not providing us with enough evidence to contradict the skepticism He Himself gave us...

[schmackster]

I'm comfortably atheist now
Sounds to me like you aren't completely comfortable otherwise you wouldn't be asking yourself these questions.

[Techno Destructo]

Nah I'm not getting sucked into this vortex.
Heheheh... fair enough... that's what the jesus camp thread's all about now!;)

Sounds to me like you aren't completely comfortable otherwise you wouldn't be asking yourself these questions.

Funnily enough, I am! (Comfortably athiest, that is) Really!
But just like I can admit that I'm wrong in an argument, or something else that works against my ego or pride, I can consider both possibilities.

I still tell religious people to get stuffed if they try shoving their faith (ANY faith) down my throat....:mad:

Surely I can be an atheist and still say "But, what if?!?". Or does that compromise my "atheism"? Is it an all-or-nothing affair?

[PINT of Stella, mate!]

"Where's the bar?"

[EastsideZero]

If i have gotten it all wrong i'm sure i would qualify for acess to heaven a whole lot more than a lot of self serving god fearing christians.
I think i would be judged on my actions and the way i treated others not on whether i sang the creators praises weekly or spread his word and converted others to his ways.
There will be no deathbed repentance for me. Would a supreme being really be fooled by a last minute conversion? Hopefully not being a hippocrite at the last minute would probably be seen as more honourable.

Anyway, if we are wrong when we are in hell i'm sure there will be enough lawyers down there to get together a shit hot legal team and mount a challenge to extricate ourselves from the situation. It would be an easy win, 'cos there would be no lawyers in heaven to argue the case for god.:D

[n00b]

Its hot here, but its not really as hot as I was led to beleive.

[PINT of Stella, mate!]

To be honest, I'm not all sure I'd want to be forgiven and admitted into heaven. By all accounts it'd be a fairly tedious place. Kinda like the eastern suburbs of Melbourne but without the pokies. TBH I'm sure one of the reasons I'm an athiest is that the Anglican Church did a f***ing bollocks sales pitch for the afterlife!

I can't say converting to Islam appeals either. No drinking, Enforced facial hair. Ok they at least dangle the carrot of 72 virgins that await anyone who martyrs themselves for Islam but the way I see it, I still can't get a decent f***ing drink and all I've got for company are 72 annoying teenage girls who'll be shit in bed!

EDIT:- I do realise there are a helluva lot more eternal afterlives available to the discerning consumer but I'm running late. TBH I quite like the idea of hanging out with eight limbed goddesses and the like...

[Lemontime]

"So what's to eat up here?"

OR

"Where's the bathroom?!"

Or I'd just fart, REALLY loudly :)

[NeBoS]

I quite like the idea of hanging out with eight limbed goddesses and the like...

:p That there is pretty funny i reckon. I ask you, where did you come up with the notion of these mythical objects? And, should this be something i should be aiming for?

[johnny]

Piss off, it's my turn!

[fatass]

Well, I guess if that happens, I'll have got it wrong. That was my choice and I won't spend my life worrying about heaven and hell and god and jesus and what is wanted of me. I have a whole life ahead of me not to get coaught up in all that. (I'm 13) I just dont see the point of spending your life as though you will live again. If you live it like you only have one life, you'll get to the second life faster then, hey?

[cjaty]

Man there,s some funny people on the site I,m so glad I joined.

[S.]

I'd just ask why he equipped his earthly representatives with such poor arguments and no real evidence of his existence. Shit, if an omnipotent, omnipresent creator can't even win an argument on the internet...

[scblack]

If i have gotten it all wrong i'm sure i would qualify for acess to heaven a whole lot more than a lot of self serving god fearing christians.

Thats dead right, I don't steal, kill, or commit adultery, or any of the other bullshit they go on about.

If he's a good little god, he'll say, the beer fridge is over here.........

[Techno Destructo]

Thats dead right, I don't steal, kill, or commit adultery, or any of the other bullshit they go on about.

If he's a good little god, he'll say, the beer fridge is over here.........

Damn straight. And I bet a helluva lot of those hardcore religious fanatics would be getting shut down at the door!

But the lowest pit of hell is reserved for Benny Hinn, Oral Roberts, Jim and Tammy Faye Baker and the other televangelists!:mad:

I mean, seriously... check THIS guy out. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Popoff) Oh yeah, if there's a god, he'll LOOOOVE this guy.

[fatnold]

sounds like you're a god fearing athiest.............:confused:

[S.]

No, to TD's credit he is someone who is genuinely able to admit when he's wrong, or at least the possibility that he might be if it can't be shown one way or the other.

Which is kind of handy... :p

[kjf]

Well, I guess if that happens, I'll have got it wrong. That was my choice and I won't spend my life worrying about heaven and hell and god and jesus and what is wanted of me. I have a whole life ahead of me not to get coaught up in all that. (I'm 13) I just dont see the point of spending your life as though you will live again. If you live it like you only have one life, you'll get to the second life faster then, hey?

My thoughts exactly!

[Techno Destructo]

sounds like you're a god fearing athiest.............:confused:

C'mon fatnold! We rode together... remember how many times I "took the lord's name in vain"? I can't fear the guy that much!;)

[fatnold]

C'mon fatnold! We rode together... remember how many times I "took the lord's name in vain"? I can't fear the guy that much!;)

yes like 'Jesus, how does that fat old guy stay on a bike' ;)
(we should hook up again for a blast sometime.)

[dok]

Techno, I'd describe you as an agnostic.

[Vicious_Fishes]

wheres that part in your bible where you forgive all if we simply ask for forgiveness ?

[Vicious_Fishes]

whatever happened to reincarnation, waking up from the matrix, restarting at the end of time, aliens taking our soul away to live in another world as supreme being, waking from a dream, every single time & never reaching the actual world, teleportation to a parallel universe where we re-live our lives & try & learn from our mistakes after our mind becomes pure energy, or anything else equally as evidential as heaven from the perspective of when i was alive ?

[.:Easily:.]

well the way i see it is

when i die and if i go heaven i have something to do for the rest of eternity hanging out with past realatives and what not

if there is no afterlife.....its gonna be VERY boring for the rest of eternity

[Hamo]

Johnny... as far as I was concerned... you're ALREADY God.. at least you were... on Farkin.
But Hmm. No one has asked where those PERFECT trails are yet? :P and also your perfect bike":D:D
no afterlife eternity wouldn't be boring cause you wouldn't be conscious to be bored.. like after you come off your bike and land on your head.. it's just.. nothing.. :p

[thecat]

whatever happened to reincarnation,

reincarnation actually features in the bible, more so old testimate, but even in the new testimate John the baptist is described as Elijah returned to the earth because he did not yet know god.

That seems to align with the idea common to various other religions about getting reincarnated time and time again to learn from your mistakes and become a better being, something modern christains seem to forget/ignor or gloss over

probably because if people start thinking they get more than one go, can learn from their mistakes and eventually become perfect on their own the christain/religious dictators loose all power and control

[24seven]

Damn straight. And I bet a helluva lot of those hardcore religious fanatics would be getting shut down at the door!

But the lowest pit of hell is reserved for Benny Hinn, Oral Roberts, Jim and Tammy Faye Baker and the other televangelists!:mad:

I mean, seriously... check THIS guy out. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Popoff) Oh yeah, if there's a god, he'll LOOOOVE this guy.

Oh my god (no pun intended!) That Peter Poppoff or whatever his name is off of wikipedia is a twat. God will divinely move money into your devine account. And people actually buying his holy spring water! Fools.

[Techno Destructo]

Techno, I'd describe you as an agnostic.

How dare you accuse me of having faith!:p

Well, it seems even contemplating "what if?" is enough to get your "atheist" badge stripped off ya. Which I can see arguments for.

If I'd consider my mindset about this religion thing, I'd like to think I'm like Kevin Smith (the director) making the movie "Dogma".

I don't see him as having any faith, but he's able to play around with the concepts of it, and christianity.

And I should say it now, as well, the fact that I'm pretty dependable on good English skills, punctuation, grammar and capitalization, and the like....

the fact that I've always conspicuously NEVER given capital letters to the beginning of words like god, jesus, christianity, etc... should be subtle example of my disdain for religion. So there.

[tu plang]

Yeah i think agnostic is probably more accurate a term than athiest, TD. Im in the same boat really, just a few years behind.

As much as im big on science, you can always just go one step further than science can explain and simply say "what caused that, where did it originate etc?"

As for God proving his existence... Futurama actually did a somewhat insightly episode on this. It was wierd really, you wouldn't pick them as the religious types and by all accounts they aren't but it outlined the obvious dillemas that such a God would face; you help too much and they become reliant, you back off and everyone loses faith.

[RCOH]

Frankly, I would be disappointed.

I find comfort in believing that when you die, you just die. You rot & blend in with your (immediate?) surroundings. Waking up in heaven, where I no doubt would end up being the pillar of the community that I am, would be like winning the runner up prize in a 'Video Hits' competition.

[TonyG]

After watching a few video's on this website i think most of the members first words will be "how close did I go to landing it"!! Then you will worry about the meaning of life.

[Adrian]

How dare you accuse me of having faith!:p

Well, it seems even contemplating "what if?" is enough to get your "atheist" badge stripped off ya. Which I can see arguments for.


That's fundamentalist atheists for ya, no bending in their beliefs. It's nothing or all for them...:rolleyes:

Waking up in heaven, where I no doubt would end up being the pillar of the community that I am, would be like winning the runner up prize in a 'Video Hits' competition.

The only people still trying to lay you would be 15 year old girls who think they posess independent thought and try too hard to go against the grain?

[toodles]

http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Dave/comicjesuschrist5.png

hehehehehe

[TonyG]

http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Dave/comicjesuschrist5.png

hehehehehe

Hahhahahhahahahahahah.
I don't suggest dieing in a jumper Mr Toodles, I'd say your "afterlife" is going to be warm.

[Sewer Cider]

I have a couple of images that some would get a chuckle from however they are pretty offensive to Christians...what's the go around here, are we allowed to post kinda controversial images?

It's a little less tame than the one above

[RCOH]

If you have to ask then it seems pretty clear.

[toodles]

I have a couple of images that some would get a chuckle from however they are pretty offensive to Christians...what's the go around here, are we allowed to post kinda controversial images?

It's a little less tame than the one above

uhmmm... might not be too bright an idea.... I'm not even sure my one was in good taste.

[Techno Destructo]

People may scream "hypocrite" at me, but I figure that most major religions have enough support that they should be able to handle some satire from time to time.

But if you put up a cartoon dissin' Allah, I don't know you, I don't work here and I'm actually a clever AI program written by some anonymous nerd. So nobody come after me, ok?

[Oddjob]

I have a couple of images that some would get a chuckle from however they are pretty offensive to Christians...what's the go around here, are we allowed to post kinda controversial images?

It's a little less tame than the one above

Its not the "Piss Christ" is it? Regardless of its rabble rousing blasphemous content that was just an unusually crap piece of art.

uhmmm... might not be too bright an idea.... I'm not even sure my one was in good taste.

Don't be so hard on yourself. That was almost as beautiful as Dave Chappelle's KKK skit.

[toodles]

Don't be so hard on yourself. That was almost as beautiful as Dave Chappelle's KKK skit.

Great. Thanks to you I'm now searching the net for chappelle and kkk

When the Feds come knocking I'm blaming you

[berkyburger123]

Great. Thanks to you I'm now searching the net for chappelle and kkk

When the Feds come knocking I'm blaming you

Correction, Dave Chappelle and "the black white supremasist' (sp)

Possibly the best skit ever.

[Sewer Cider]

linked for sensitivity and humour of course!

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g101/mordecai01/jesus.jpg

[dok]

Was reading this before:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/intro.html

raises some interesting points, worth the read if you have the spare time.

[Hamo]

hmm.. Yeah I think if someone is really comfortable with their beleifs then they should be able to take some critisism.
Christianity takes alot of it, JWs, Mormons, and.. well Every religion does.. but it seemed like some of those islamic people overreacted to a comic strip in demmark (was it denmark?) and declared a jihad or something on that guy and had mass riots and killed people...


after all.. won't he get his punishment after death?
I'm not having a go at islam for that.. just the individuals who Went a bit over the top.
I used to be a christian.... Wouldn't exactly call my self a christain now.. but I've always been able to see the humor in these things...
after all.. what kind of god is a god who can't take a joke?:p

[darth rider]

I just can't imagine a god, in all his greatness and omnipotence, being so self indulgent that we have to spend our lives dedicated to serving him. I mean, if you were that powerful and could do anything you wanted with all these lives, wouldn't you just leave it to run it's own course? You could always make a new one, it'd only take a week and a few billion years would just fly by. :D ( or is it that time would be irrelevant?)
If I went to all the trouble of making the earth and all the fun things you can do on it, I'd want people to enjoy it and experience as much of it as possible.

I basically think all the major religions are for making money and building power only, however I do agree with some of their ideas (treat others the same way you'd have them treat you etc).
If there's a heaven, the people who get in are the ones who lived the most and ended up with more good deeds than bad.
So, I'd just say "well you've seen my CV, but please, if I don't qualify, don't send me back to be a lawyer!"

[NCR600]

Athiests: What will you say if we've got it wrong?

As per the early 1980's television advertising campaign for the ubiquitous Australian greeting "When you get to heaven, whadda ya think you'll say?"

I think I'll say "G'day"

I'll be far too surprised to think of much else.

[wdshiver]

Hey Guys,

I am comfortably christian and regularly attend youth group and church. If I am wrong and there is no god (which I highly doubt due to several reasons) then there is no real repocussions because we will just die, but on the other hand if those who do not believe in God and accept that he is our saviour well, you know what's going to happen. Everyone has there oppinions and I hold it against no one for people to have another religion but I want people to consider the statement above and think, what if I am wrong.

Sorry if I sound like a total bible basher but I thought I should voice my oppinion because It might be of value to someone.

[Techno Destructo]

Hey Guys,

I am comfortably christian and regularly attend youth group and church. If I am wrong and there is no god (which I highly doubt due to several reasons) then there is no real repocussions because we will just die, but on the other hand if those who do not believe in God and accept that he is our saviour well, you know what's going to happen. Everyone has there oppinions and I hold it against no one for people to have another religion but I want people to consider the statement above and think, what if I am wrong.

Sorry if I sound like a total bible basher but I thought I should voice my oppinion because It might be of value to someone.

Sigh... I was wondering if any of you guys were going to get stuck in...

Listen... don't you realize that kind of talk just PUSHES people away from religion and makes people resent it?

It's counter-productive to your cause! Unless you think you're winning valuable "heaven points" every time you tell or convert someone...
Let people come to religion ON THEIR OWN VOLITION!

PS. This thread was for the atheists on Farkin. Not the bible-bashers.

[wdshiver]

Sigh... I was wondering if any of you guys were going to get stuck in...

Listen... don't you realize that kind of talk just PUSHES people away from religion and makes people resent it?

It's counter-productive to your cause! Unless you think you're winning valuable "heaven points" every time you tell or convert someone...
Let people come to religion ON THEIR OWN VOLITION!

I am neither trying to convert someone to Christianity nor trying to get brownie points with god but simply stating the what ifs. I understand your point that preaching to whoever you can will make the person turn away from the certain religion.

I know this may now sound hypocritical, but I am saying it in the way to imform those of the unlikely hood of the universe being created and that some supreme power must have "helped" in the creation of the Universe. Scienctists have proven that the likely hood of the Universe to be made is as likely as a Tornadoe ripping through a Junk yard and being able to create BRAND NEW Jumbo 747 Plane.

In no way, shape or form am I trying to promote my religion to the readers of farkin but trying to inform that there must have been a higher power of any sort to have pulled that one out of there ass

[NCR600]

Sigh... I was wondering if any of you guys were going to get stuck in...

Listen... don't you realize that kind of talk just PUSHES people away from religion and makes people resent it?

It's counter-productive to your cause! Unless you think you're winning valuable "heaven points" every time you tell or convert someone...
Let people come to religion ON THEIR OWN VOLITION!

PS. This thread was for the atheists on Farkin. Not the bible-bashers.

This applies to any advertising. There is a whole bunch of products I won't buy SPECIFICALLY because the ads shit me to tears.

Must be a sign of intelligence, or at least a capacity for critical thinking. I mean if a product is as good as the ads would have you believe, does it need a total saturation advertising campaign?

[cressa]

I would have to ask; "If you're such an "intelligent designer", how come I've been wiping my arse for the last 70 years? What gives? The fucking Capilano Honey mob can squeeze runny honey out a plastic hole and not leave a single trace, but here we all are, wiping shit from our arses"

[NCR600]

Scienctists have proven that the likely hood of the Universe to be made is as likely as a Tornadoe ripping through a Junk yard and being able to create BRAND NEW Jumbo 747 Plane.



What scientists, where?

Personally I think the fact that life on Earth is a gajillion to one chance makes it all the more precious. I don't believe in space aliens either before anyone asks.

We are it, we are masters of our own destiny, and the sooner the people of the world realise this, the sooner we will be living in our own utopia. Our destiny is not controlled by god (or gods).

For better or for worse, this is it.

[BIGDave]

i feel that going to a private school, which is very heavy on its christian education, forcing it down our throuats and all. I dont believe this god stuff becuase the bible constantly contradicts itself, for example. "love thy neighboure", "god shall smite down all my enemies".

think of it this way. Did Adam and Eve have bellybuttons.

[matty_101]

Hey Guys,

I am comfortably christian and regularly attend youth group and church. If I am wrong and there is no god (which I highly doubt due to several reasons) then there is no real repocussions because we will just die, but on the other hand if those who do not believe in God and accept that he is our saviour well, you know what's going to happen. Everyone has there oppinions and I hold it against no one for people to have another religion but I want people to consider the statement above and think, what if I am wrong.

Sorry if I sound like a total bible basher but I thought I should voice my oppinion because It might be of value to someone.

Well for those people who believe in god soully for the purpose of going to heaven, aren't they more deserving of persecution for their sycophantism than people who have grown a sack of their own, and made up their own about how they live their lives? to me religion is a cop out for people who cant deal with their own problems and therefore assume that the things which they are too weak to deal with must be from a higher power. yet it works for some people and thats cool but who the fuck are they to try and force their religion on me, these people that found happiness in religion should just keep it to themselves unless they are asked. also religion was started in ancient times, when they had no way to comprehend the events that caused them to be, and no way to understand things that happened around them. humans are scared of things they cant understand, so they came up with an explanation for it, and everyone in their quest for understanding, belived it. and have you noticed that religion is based around people giving money to the church, i mean what kind of god is he if he makes his loyal supporters, give money to a church which, with that money buys extravongant shit made out of gold. i mean he laid down the 10 commandments yet he allows the people that enforce these commandments to be gluttonous and buy all this shit when it could, oh save the lives of poor kids in ethiopia. how can people in this age of science, really believe that a being of unimaginable power and intelligence created everything yet, for all his wisdom, will smite anyone who disagrees with him? is it just me or does this god guy, sound like a 6 year old with a magnifying glass, and if we, the ants, dont do what he wants, he'll burn us with his toy.
and one more thing, if god is so powerful and smart, surely he can take pity on us inferior creatures for not being smart enough to belive in him. i mean we are only human and we all make mistakes,


Ooooooops this isnt what the threads about sorry. if i ever saw god, i would ask him, becuase theres no way he could could be a girl with all the shit he's caused, ie the holy crusades, spanish inquistion. i would ask him

if your so powerful and smart, why must little kids starve to death everyday? why do people have to suffer because some dumb bitch ate an apple becuase she was curious as to what it would taste like??

[S.]

I am neither trying to convert someone to Christianity nor trying to get brownie points with god but simply stating the what ifs. I understand your point that preaching to whoever you can will make the person turn away from the certain religion.

I know this may now sound hypocritical, but I am saying it in the way to imform those of the unlikely hood of the universe being created and that some supreme power must have "helped" in the creation of the Universe. Scienctists have proven that the likely hood of the Universe to be made is as likely as a Tornadoe ripping through a Junk yard and being able to create BRAND NEW Jumbo 747 Plane.

In no way, shape or form am I trying to promote my religion to the readers of farkin but trying to inform that there must have been a higher power of any sort to have pulled that one out of there ass

No scientists have ever proven such a thing. Again, you are proclaiming falsehoods. And yet again, the "chance" side of things is explained perfectly well by many atheists... yet again, read one of Dawkins' books before you spout such utter crap.

BTW the idea that you "err on the safe side" by "believing" in god is contradictory to what true belief/faith is. For starters, what you actually BELIEVE is not a choice - what you want to or pretend to believe is another matter. If you are simply hedging your bets by "believing" in God, then you don't really believe in him, you're simply trying to account for the possibility that he does exist rather than actually following what you truly believe is the case. Of course, there is some uncertainty as to whether god really exists, but I'm yet to see any religion leave room for such uncertainty - you either truly "believe" or you don't. In fact, this may well label you a liar. Dunno if god likes liars.

[Rik]

Scienctists have proven that the likely hood of the Universe to be made is as likely as a Tornadoe ripping through a Junk yard and being able to create BRAND NEW Jumbo 747 Plane.Scientists prove alot of things. Do some reading on the search for the Higgs boson, it'll be very interesting if they prove the theories about it ;)

Anyway, back to the thread... if I was to "face my judgement" I'd probably say "sorry mate, I think I've the wrong address. Excuse me"

[tu plang]

and have you noticed that religion is based around people giving money to the church, i mean what kind of god is he if he makes his loyal supporters, give money to a church which, with that money buys extravongant shit made out of gold. i mean he laid down the 10 commandments yet he allows the people that enforce these commandments to be gluttonous and buy all this shit when it could, oh save the lives of poor kids in ethiopia.

...ok... now i don't actually practice my religion but I know enough about it (and everything, naturally) to inform you that what you have just said is a load of bullshit.

for starters, collections in a traditional mass are simply donation based. they usually have one which is for a mission (kids in ethiopia eh?) and the other to support the parish priest. religion has some floors (as i said, i dont really do it) but this isnt really a valid one in main stream religion. (this obviously excludes televangelists, but everyone knows that they are criminals.

how can people in this age of science, really believe that a being of unimaginable power and intelligence created everything yet, for all his wisdom, will smite anyone who disagrees with him? is it just me or does this god guy, sound like a 6 year old with a magnifying glass, and if we, the ants, dont do what he wants, he'll burn us with his toy.


again, when you don't have a clue, don't comment.

[cressa]

As a a proud Aethiest, when I am presented with a religious debate, I have found it pointless to argue about creation of man and the resurrection of Christ, religious folk have all the answers (90% of them being "faith"). The one question that produces many a blank face is, "Who created God?"

So to keep on topic, my question would probably be "Who's your daddy?"

[thecat]

Scienctists have proven that the likely hood of the Universe to be made is as likely as a Tornadoe ripping through a Junk yard and being able to create BRAND NEW Jumbo 747 Plane.


Crap. Any scientist worth their salt knows you can't do probability in reverse.

For example.

Let's say you run out on to a beach, bend down, grab a handful of sand, run back and drop the sand on to a bullseye target that has been painted on the ground. Now find the bit of sand that fell closest to the center of the bullseye...

Your intelligent design "scientist" friends would have to say that it is so completely improbable that of all the grains of sand on all the beached in all the world, the chance of you grabbing *that* grain in your hand, in a random pick up and dropping the handful in such away that *that* grain falls closest to the bullseyes that it is impossible without devine guidance.

When you try to retrofit probability to that sort of thing you get improbabilities but that doesn't mean it didn't happen once.

Improbable is not impossible

[thecat]

Scienctists have proven that the likely hood of the Universe to be made is as likely as a Tornadoe ripping through a Junk yard and being able to create BRAND NEW Jumbo 747 Plane.


Crap. Any scientist worth their salt knows you can't do probability in reverse.

For example.

Let's say you run out on to a beach, bend down, grab a handful of sand, run back and drop the sand on to a bullseye target that has been painted on the ground. Now find the bit of sand that fell closest to the center of the bullseye...

Your intelligent design "scientist" friends would have to say that it is so completely improbable that of all the grains of sand on all the beached in all the world, the chance of you grabbing *that* grain in your hand, in a random pick up and dropping the handful in such away that *that* grain falls closest to the bullseyes that it is impossible without devine guidance.

When you try to retrofit probability to that sort of thing you get improbabilities but that doesn't mean it didn't happen once.

Improbable is not impossible

[spyder6052]

i was brought up in a catholic house went to catholic schools and now (well of the age of fifteen when i left school,35 now) i can honestly say that i dont give a flying rats arse about any religion. but in saying that, there is a god and his name is Hugh Hefner. :p

if there is a god(other than HH) i would like to meet him but until the day comes when he (phisically) reaches out grabs my hand and says "g'day mate how the f**k are ya, wanna a coopers pale ale and a billy" i will not believe.

imho i think religion is both good and bad. good because it give all the people who dont want to understand why things happen, someone to blame i.e "it was an act of god", "it is gods will" etc etc etc

bad because nearly EVERY war has been started by religion and the mess we are in now (muslim v west) can be traced back to one religion not respecting the rights and freedoms of another religion

[Cave Dweller]

I don't have a problem with peoples personal religious views if they have thought about it a bit, researched from various sources and decided they believe or don't believe in God, higher powers, whatever. I have read a bit and have not seen any evidence for the existence of a God.

What i do have a problem with is people mindlessly following what they are told is the truth, like sheep. Saying God exists because the bible says so, or because i have faith, is the most lame reasoning ever and is what religious types always fall back on in conversation, like it is some kind of trump card to everything. Lame, no wonder Jesus refers to them as his flock, bbaaahhhhh.

[Vicious_Fishes]

If I am wrong and there is no god (which I highly doubt due to several reasons) then there is no real repocussions because we will just die, but on the other hand if those who do not believe in God and accept that he is our saviour well, you know what's going to happen.

unless its the wrong god.

[Vicious_Fishes]

i'm also curious as to these "many reasons" why you believe there is a god ?

[Ruckus_Lord]

"Oh shit! This isn't where I parked my car!"

I honestly don't know what I'd say, I'm so strongtly am against religion it'd just leave me in confusement, and many hours of senseless mumble.

[thecat]

"Oh shit! This isn't where I parked my car!"



More likely.. Shit, the muslems were right....

[wdshiver]

I am not saying in anyway that I am right and you are wrong, I am simply placing my oppinions on the table to share in a forum and discuss it. It may be true that everything happened by chance but in my view I am allowed to stick with my own oppinion.

You may find this abit interesting. Big bang cosmology is an explosive topic. Heated reactions—and bitter resistance—have arisen from opposite directions in the last century but, ironically, for the same type of reasons: religious reasons. One group of big bang opponents includes those who understand the theory’s implications, and the other, those who misunderstand them.

People in the first group understand that the big bang denies the notion of an uncreated or self-existent universe. The big bang theory, based on the accumulated data of centuries, points to a supernatural beginning and a purposeful (hence personal), transcendent (beyond the boundaries of space, time, matter, and energy) Beginner. Those who reject the reality of God or the knowability of God would, of course, find such an idea repugnant, an affront to their philosophical worldview. Similarly, it would offend those who want to spell universe with a capital U, who have been trained to view the universe itself as ultimate reality and as the totality of all that is real. Again, their response is religious.

People in the second group hate the big bang because they mistakenly think it argues for rather than against a godless theory of origins. They associate “big bang” with blind chance. They see it as a random, chaotic, uncaused explosion when it actually represents exactly the opposite. They reject the date it gives for the beginning of the universe, thinking that to acknowledge a few billion years is to discredit the authority of their holy books, whether the Koran, the book of Mormon, or the Bible.1,2 Understandably, these people either predict the theory’s ultimate overthrow or choose to live with a contradiction at the core of their belief system.

Despite opposition from outspoken enemies, the fundamentals of the big bang model, which is actually a cluster of slightly differing models, stands secure. In fact, it stands more firmly than ever with the aid of its most potent and important allies: the facts of nature and the technological marvels that bring them to light, as well as the men and women who pursue and report those facts.


Well If need be if I am to truely add something of anyworth to this conversation and what I would say if I saw god I would say "So that's what you look like"

[Regan of Gong]

We regurgitate Chrich/Bible, you regurgitate Richard Dawkins. It's a stalemate.

In the hypothetical event of there is no God, the repercussions are small for my eternity. I may have missed out on the way of the world, but I've lived a life governed by reasonably good morals, which, from my personal experience, work rather well.

[S.]

We regurgitate Chrich/Bible, you regurgitate Richard Dawkins. It's a stalemate.

Jesus Christ that's a retarded argument. We DON'T just say "oh Richard Dawkins said that religion is wrong, so it must be true" - it's the arguments, logic and evidence that he presents that are what we're interested in. If you want to regurgitate something that is actually opposition to Dawkins et al on the basis of actual logic rather than just a book stating "this is so, that is so, you're going to hell if you don't do ___" then maybe look up Lee Strobel, Michael Behe etc. Yes I believe their arguments have holes in them, but at least they're arguments rather than just arbitrations.

Again, you're simply dodging the point. So, SO typical of religious standpoints in my personal experience, and you do yourself no favours. Never a direct answer, never a head-to-head based on evidence or logic, etc etc... I could rant all day. Nothing personal, I'm sure you're a top bloke but come on - either put up some decent arguments or convert to islam (mainly out of spite).

[S.]

I am not saying in anyway that I am right and you are wrong, I am simply placing my oppinions on the table to share in a forum and discuss it. It may be true that everything happened by chance but in my view I am allowed to stick with my own oppinion.

You may find this abit interesting.


Well If need be if I am to truely add something of anyworth to this conversation and what I would say if I saw god I would say "So that's what you look like"

Right, so science cannot (yet - and I would imagine ever) explain how the universe came to be. We know the universe exists, we're just not sure what - if anything - caused it to be. Religion however, invents a "creator" to be exactly that cause. But we don't know that there IS a creator, and that doesn't solve anything cos now we don't know where HE came from, so in actual fact we've gone from having one unknown (what caused the universe to exist/begin) to having [at least] two unknowns (does god exist, and who created god, as well as any number of things like can he fly, what colour cape does he wear, could he microwave a burrito so hot that he himself could not eat it, etc).

Now explain how, exactly, that is a more plausible explanation to the beginning of the universe? All your supernatural "explanation" has done is actually create an even MORE improbable scenario than the universe just randomly popping out of nothing, because now we have even more questions we need to answer! Occam's Razor - the notion that the simplest idea with the fewest assumptions is most likely to be the correct theory - should then lead us to regard the likelihood of god existing as being lower than the likelihood of god existing.

[hardinge915]

Its actually fairly funny, since I go to a religious school and learning about all religions etc that everyone in this topic has replied to the possibility of a God existing and its referred to as a HE, always male, not female or even an it. Now, not that this bothers me in the slightest because I too, am an athiest, just thought id put it out on the table. On the topic, if i have it wrong and i end up there, first thing ill be asking is "Where can i get a drink?"

[wdshiver]

Now explain how, exactly, that is a more plausible explanation to the beginning of the universe?

Sorry if I have misunderstood the question but I will answer it in the way that I have interperated it. I believe in everything sceince shows and proves (for instance: How the human body is made). This only strengthens my bonds with my religion because if you study every detail of something you will find how intricate it is, and if you sum up all that is arround you then you will see how perfect everything is. Like if you look at the human anatomy you will see how perfect it is (Yes, we all die but due to other factors from our environment) now if everything was created from matter and anti-matter, think how amazing it is that all the matter congeles together and makes such perfect environment in which we live. I believe because I do not believe in such chance, I believe in the [U]possibility[u/] that something of a higher power has created the universe.
This does leave the question of where did this higher power come from, I cannot answer that, but if I had to answer it in an oppionated way I would say that if anything so powerful can create this perfect world then he must have been here the whole time other wise it cannot be explained.
I hope I have answered your question in the way you meant, if not please try and dumb it down.

[S.]

Sorry if I have misunderstood the question but I will answer it in the way that I have interperated it. I believe in everything sceince shows and proves (for instance: How the human body is made). This only strengthens my bonds with my religion because if you study every detail of something you will find how intricate it is, and if you sum up all that is arround you then you will see how perfect everything is. Like if you look at the human anatomy you will see how perfect it is (Yes, we all die but due to other factors from our environment) now if everything was created from matter and anti-matter, think how amazing it is that all the matter congeles together and makes such perfect environment in which we live. I believe because I do not believe in such chance, I believe in the [u]possibility[u/] that something of a higher power has created the universe.
This does leave the question of where did this higher power come from, I cannot answer that, but if I had to answer it in an oppionated way I would say that if anything so powerful can create this perfect world then he must have been here the whole time other wise it cannot be explained.
I hope I have answered your question in the way you meant, if not please try and dumb it down.


Biology, human anatomy etc are explained fairly well by a little-known theory called "evolution". There are plenty of opponents to evolutionary biology (yet to find any atheist ones however, maybe that says something) but the theory as a whole is fairly sound, has plenty of evidence behind it, and insofar as I am aware, has never really had any fatal flaws found in it. Yeah, it's pretty incredible that such complex things as humans exist, but then again, if you consider the time span we've had to develop, it's not really that surprising. And as thecat so aptly pointed out, you simply can't apply probability in reverse, nor is there any need to, given that the complex organisms did not simply "appear" in an explosion, but rather developed from smaller, simpler organisms over the course of millions/billions of years. Think about it - a year is a long time, especially on a cellular level, and when you've got a BILLION of those for cells to happen to develop over... it's really not unfathomable.

The problem with the "god was always there" notion is that it is essentially a "fudge factor" argument where you simply place god outside the "rules". However, if you're going to say that there was an event or entity that is immune to the cause and effect rules (ie a First Cause as such) - again, we know the universe exists, we don't know that god exists, why assume that the beginning of the universe (which we know happened) could not have been that outside-the-rules event, instead of requiring a god who is immune to cause/effect rules? Again you are introducing an entity (ie god) who is unnecessary given that you have to make the same assumptions/postulations for him as you would have to make for the universe's "random" creation.

[S.]

Its actually fairly funny, since I go to a religious school and learning about all religions etc that everyone in this topic has replied to the possibility of a God existing and its referred to as a HE, always male, not female or even an it. Now, not that this bothers me in the slightest because I too, am an athiest, just thought id put it out on the table.

It's because there is no commonly understood personal pronoun in the English language that allows for reference to a person without specifying their sex. You could say "it" but then your statement may become ambiguous because "it" is not necessarily personal. Oh and there's that whole religion-is-a-sexist-pig thing too :)

[nomis7]

Yeah, it's pretty incredible that such complex things as humans exist, but then again, if you consider the time span we've had to develop, it's not really that surprising.

What do you mean by "the time we have had to develop”? I mean i don't see humans themselves getting smarter, humans aren’t getting better vision, smell etc as life goes on, I see technology getting better but not humans...sorry if I have miss-interpreted you hear, or if im seeming dumb just don’t really understand you there:o

[nomis7]

and have you noticed that religion is based around people giving money to the church, i mean what kind of god is he if he makes his loyal supporters, give money to a church which, with that money buys extravongant shit made out of gold


I don’t know where you got the “gold” Idea from but I am lead to believe that money goes to missions (???)

I don’t understand atheists (No offense techno destructo, or any other atheists). From reading “how to success in the future” type books I have learnt a little about religion, The way I see it is why not put your faith/trust in something such as God, Idol, etc, Now some of you may say but living a Christian life is boring but I have never met an un-happy Christian/catholic otherwise they wouldn’t be what they are correct? I guess what im saying is why purposely go out of your way not to believe in something,:o

[thecat]

should then lead us to regard the likelihood of god existing as being lower than the likelihood of god existing.

If we want to look at likelihoods and possibilities the we have to look at where computers are going. At the rate they are developing it wont be long before we have a computer so powerful it will be able to simulate human history.

Now consider this, In the future there may well be hundreds of computers capable of simulating the universe but only one universe.

Therefore the probability that we actually exist in the real universe is very slim, it's far more probable that we are bits in a computer program.

That means the creator is more likely to be some pimple faced nerd surfing porn and checking in every now and then to stuff us around for fun.

[thecat]

What do you mean by "the time we have had to develop”? I mean i don't see humans themselves getting smarter, humans aren’t getting better vision, smell etc as life goes on,

So, you're saying we are at the same evolutionary level as cavemen?

[wdshiver]

Biology, human anatomy etc are explained fairly well by a little-known theory called "evolution".
It is still a theory and it is yet to to be proven to be known as Evolution rather then the Theory of evolution. I may sound biased and disregard everything that is said so I can stick by my guns and say that my relegion is far more superiour but I am just going with the flow of religion and am Loving it. I am all for the evolution of other matter but Supposadly We have not evolved from neanderthals

again I have found something for those who want scientific evidence of religious matters.


Top 10 Scientific Discoveries of 2004 that Support RTB’s Testable Creation Model

# 10
Is there scientific evidence for a global flood? Analysis of deep ice cores in Antarctica and Greenland and a sediment core off New Zealand’s coast demonstrate that humans were created at the ideal time in geological history and provide a powerful refutation of young-earth creationism.
Discussed on Creation Update, airdates 07-13-2004 and 09-21-2004.
# 9
New insights into the fossil record of whale speciation continues to undermine this evolutionary icon.
Discussed on Creation Update, airdate 11-16-2004.
# 8
Discovery of a nearby pulsar-pulsar binary and measurements of its orbital features yields another powerful confirmation of general relativity’s reliability, and thus, the validity of space-time theorems proving the beginning of space and time.
Discussed on Creation Update, airdate 01-06-2004.
# 7
A study of gypsy moth parasites demonstrates that the creation of a diverse array of specialized parasites indeed is consistent with an all-powerful, all-wise, and all-loving Creator.
Discussed on Creation Update, airdate 07-27-2004.
# 6
Cellular midbody design.
Discussed on Creation Update, airdate 07-13-2004.
# 5
New insights into the physics of the Moon’s origin establish more evidence for Earth’s supernatural design so that it can support life.
Discussed on Creation Update, airdate 05-25-2004.
# 4
Is human evolution a fact? Evidence continues to mount against any genetic link between ancient modern humans and Neanderthals. This undercuts some young-earth creation models for human origins, as well as the evolutionary multi-regional hypothesis.
Discussed on Creation Update, airdate 12-14-2004.
# 3
A measure of the late heavy bombardment’s extent reveals new design features for the support of life and adds to the weight of evidence against naturalistic models for the origin of life on Earth. “Magma Ocean,”.
Discussed on Creation Update, airdate 05-18-2004.
# 2
The discovery of uranium/thorium fractionation, a new geochemical marker for early life on earth.
Discussed on Creation Update, airdate 01-06-2004.
# 1
Multiple independent confirmations of dark energy bolster the most spectacular evidence for the supernatural design of the universe for life.
Discussed on Creation Update, airdate 12-14-2004.

[Binaural]

I don’t know where you got the “gold” Idea from but I am lead to believe that money goes to missions (???)

I don’t understand atheists (No offense techno destructo, or any other atheists). From reading “how to success in the future” type books I have learnt a little about religion, The way I see it is why not put your faith/trust in something such as God, Idol, etc, Now some of you may say but living a Christian life is boring but I have never met an un-happy Christian/catholic otherwise they wouldn’t be what they are correct? I guess what im saying is why purposely go out of your way not to believe in something,:o

To turn your post on its head, why go out of your way to believe in a god, especially when there is no evidence for the existence of any of them?

PS If you've never met an unhappy christian then you really don't get out much.

[Binaural]

It is still a theory and it is yet to to be proven to be known as Evolution rather then the Theory of evolution. I may sound biased and disregard everything that is said so I can stick by my guns and say that my relegion is far more superiour but I am just going with the flow of religion and am Loving it. I am all for the evolution of other matter but Supposadly We have not evolved from neanderthals

again I have found something for those who want scientific evidence of religious matters.

Nice try at playing with words. The word "theory" had a very specific meaning in science which is a little different from ordinary English, and does not mean a doubtful proposition. It does mean that it is an detailed and testable idea that is supported by facts and/or experiment and has not yet been disproven. Calling evolution a theory is fine by me, especially if you compare it to the unsupported hypothesis of creation.

The Neanderthals (or Neandertal if you want to be pedantic) were a split in our evolutionary line. Modern humans are descended from the Cro-magnons, who were the other species of man at the time. Trying to argue they were not related though is the sort of idiotic exercise much beloved by unintelligent designers.

The other quotes in your post are unintentionally hilarious. I especially liked this one:

A study of gypsy moth parasites demonstrates that the creation of a diverse array of specialized parasites indeed is consistent with an all-powerful, all-wise, and all-loving Creator.

LMAO!

[wdshiver]

Oh well, I guess I'm losing a biased argument of oppinions with science involved. Mind you I'm only 15 so if I am losing an argument against 20+ old men who have finished school, I am not surprised :). I hope to see you all in heaven some day, or if not I hope the worms are kind to us :)

[dok]

I was thinking about this before: if Christians believe that the universe was invented 6000 years ago or whatever and that their god has existed for eternity, how long was he sitting around for until he decided to create it? What's more, where did he exist?

[nomis7]

So, you're saying we are at the same evolutionary level as cavemen?

Well its hard to say, Im not really talking about that im saying humans haven’t developed a special "infra red vision”, a smell at which sharks can smell blood, I am saying humans aren’t evolving anymore that what we were "originally” (however we came hear), as for the "smartness" of humans I recon we wouldn’t have gotten any smarter without technology, you look at a child he will go to school for 10-12 years and learn and then do whatever else after we don't just come into this world smart if we didn’t learn anything we wouldn’t be any different to cave men....I guess does that sound right)




To turn your post on its head, why go out of your way to believe in a god, especially when there is no evidence for the existence of any of them?

PS If you've never met an unhappy christian then you really don't get out much.

To turn on your post on its head why Not follow God?with ever one you worthship...:p

I get out, i guess im jumping to a conclusion by saying if you aren't happy at what your doing why do it?therefore if your an un-happy christian why follow God still?

[nomis7]

I was thinking about this before: if Christians believe that the universe was invented 6000 years ago or whatever and that their god has existed for eternity, how long was he sitting around for until he decided to create it? What's more, where did he exist?

It's one of them things man will never know, Look at it this way how was matter ever there?

[Cave Dweller]

What do you mean by "the time we have had to develop”? I mean i don't see humans themselves getting smarter, humans aren’t getting better vision, smell etc as life goes on, I see technology getting better but not humans...sorry if I have miss-interpreted you hear, or if im seeming dumb just don’t really understand you there:o

Your post shows you have absolutely no idea what so ever about how evolution works.


Oh well, I guess I'm losing a biased argument of oppinions with science involved. Mind you I'm only 15 so if I am losing an argument against 20+ old men who have finished school, I am not surprised :). I hope to see you all in heaven some day, or if not I hope the worms are kind to us :)

I feel real sorry for kids that get indoctrinated at a young age by church's, they have weak minds and are easily persuaded to beleive that some dude walked on water, rose from the dead, created the world in 7 days, is watching over everyone of us, all the time (even when i hang a piss, what a pervert), people of other religions are going to hell, if your bad you go to hell, gays are going to hell blah blah blah.


In the hypothetical event of there is no God, the repercussions are small for my eternity. I may have missed out on the way of the world, but I've lived a life governed by reasonably good morals, which, from my personal experience, work rather well.

You don't need to be religious to have good morals.

[nomis7]

Your post shows you have absolutely no idea what so ever about how evolution works.


Most probaly because i don't studdy it:rolleyes:Which i think is understandable,anyone can beleive what they want at free will, i don't blame people if they beleive in evolution as scientists do have good theories, i just have a different opion on how we came into this world. Is There somthing wrong with that?

[Cave Dweller]

Most probaly because i don't studdy it:rolleyes:Which i think is understandable,

Off course, you don't need to understand it because you have faith.

[nomis7]

Off course, you don't need to understand it because you have faith.

I never said I had faith; I do have basic knowledge on the "Christian" side of things, but even myself wonder is it true? I think you can't really go anywhere with these threads, people all have different views on life (nothing wrong with that) this is just one of those arguments that can only be solved after death.:)

[PINT of Stella, mate!]

study of gypsy moth parasites demonstrates that the creation of a diverse array of specialized parasites indeed is consistent with an all-powerful, all-wise, and all-loving Creator.
Discussed on Creation Update, airdate 07-27-2004.

Did you know that the male gypsy moth can smell a female gypsy moth from up to 8 miles away?

This is also true if you remove the word 'moth'

;)

Seriously though, how the f*** can you say that the existence of a diverse array of parasites is consistent with an all-loving creator?

AIDS, Malaria, typhoid, Cholera, Small-pox, Anthrax, Syphillis, Ebola etc ALL sound like the work of a loving, benevolent, caring designer :rolleyes:

[Cave Dweller]

I never said I had faith; I do have basic knowledge on the "Christian" side of things, but even myself wonder is it true?

Is what true? There is so many loop holes in the God exists argument that it always boils down to "faith" because there is no evidence for it. Besides, who says Christianity is the "correct" religion anyway, well, besides Christians and God via the Christian bible (absolutely no bias there)? Wouldn't you be pissed if you went to muslim hell for not following the karan.

It is always possible (not probable though) that a creator exists, but like S. said it raises more questions then it answers, like who was the creators creator creator creator creator creator creator creator creator creator creator creator ?

[nomis7]

Is what true? There is so many loop holes in the God exists argument that it always boils down to "faith" because there is no evidence for it. Besides, who says Christianity is the "correct" religion anyway, well, besides Christians and God via the Christian bible (absolutely no bias there)? Wouldn't you be pissed if you went to muslim hell for not following the karan.

It is always possible (not probable though) that a creator exists, but like S. said it raises more questions then it answers, like who was the creators creator creator creator creator creator creator creator creator creator creator creator ?

Is God true i wonder...You say how was the creator's creator ever there? etc etc etc but how was matter ever there? that is my arguement;)

[Vicious_Fishes]

Is God true i wonder...You say how was the creator's creator ever there? etc etc etc but how was matter ever there? that is my arguement;)

just because science can't explain something NOW, doesn't mean that it can't in the future, or that religion can.

the thing with science is that when it doesn't actually know something, it doesn't pretend that it does and just says that "god" is the explanation.

it can actually admit, all the time "we don't know but we are trying to find out"

rather than "oh well if we don't know it now it is unknowable, or perhaps it is unscientificallyknowable (yeah i know that's not a word) and is just god"

using religions logic, we might as well just say if we can't explain it then it was the flying spaghetti monster.

we can't prove it but you can't disprove it eh ?

heres an interesting link for everybody

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_spaghetti_monster

[Vicious_Fishes]

What do you mean by "the time we have had to develop”? I mean i don't see humans themselves getting smarter, humans aren’t getting better vision, smell etc as life goes on, I see technology getting better but not humans...sorry if I have miss-interpreted you hear, or if im seeming dumb just don’t really understand you there:o

Most probaly because i don't studdy it:rolleyes:Which i think is understandable,anyone can beleive what they want at free will, i don't blame people if they beleive in evolution as scientists do have good theories, i just have a different opion on how we came into this world. Is There somthing wrong with that?

right, so you admit that you don't know anything about it when you are told you don't, yet completely dismiss an idea that you know nothing about ?

:rolleyes:

and nobody has a problem with you dude, don't take being told you're wrong with reason for saying it as an insult, its constructive criticism.

[Matt H]

I recon we wouldn’t have gotten any smarter without technology

:confused:

Care to inform me on where exactly the technology came from?

People getting smarter... maybe? :rolleyes:

[nomis7]

:confused:

Care to inform me on where exactly the technology came from?

People getting smarter... maybe? :rolleyes:

Ohh fark mate do you read 2 words and jump to a conclusion i said human instincs have not evolved:rolleyes:

Im fighting an erguement on my own, ill leave you atheists to it:o

[Vicious_Fishes]

Ohh fark mate do you read 2 words and jump to a conclusion i said human instincs have not evolved:rolleyes:

Im fighting an erguement on my own, ill leave you atheists to it:o

firstly, they have.

and secondly, no you didn't.

[Matt H]

Ohh fark mate do you read 2 words and jump to a conclusion i said human instincs have not evolved:rolleyes:

Im fighting an erguement on my own, ill leave you atheists to it:o

Well technically speaking, the knowledge humans have learnt about nutrition etc. has enabled us to become fitter, faster, stronger (more alert = red bull :D ) which effectively bypasses the need for natural selection of weaklings dying. So no, Modern human instincts haven't evolved in a sense, but they have still improved.

[wdshiver]

I feel real sorry for kids that get indoctrinated at a young age by church's

I went to church for my own free will, for the same reason as you might go to a club: to meet new people, have a good time and to get high on something and in my case religion. You may well feel sorry for me but why are you feeling sorry for me, I am not feeling any worse from following a religion neither am I wasting my life because I enjoy following it. If some kid is being pressured into something that they truely do not believe in then yeah sure I feel sorry for them but I don't think it is a church's fault, they are generally a non-profit organisation and tend not to force anyone into church.

[Matt H]

Also on the topic, what's with people thanking god for winning awards and such, ie. "I want to thank god for receiving "Insert Award Here"
And people claiming that god helped them overcome their troubles "I lost the bottle and found a bible" type scenarios.

I mean, seriously what is believing in god got to do with overcome the urge to get high on crack or drink or whatever?
Becuase you can actually do good things without the help of god. :eek: :rolleyes:

And the last part of my rant:
What's with the story in the old testament where god tells the guy to sacrifice his son in the name of god, but right before he jabs him with his piece god says 'nah just kill some sheep instead'
Why would he need to test some guys devotion so much as to tell him to kill his son? Sounds like if god exists... he has real bad ego problems

End rant.

[fatnold]

Oh well, I guess I'm losing a biased argument of oppinions with science involved. Mind you I'm only 15 so if I am losing an argument against 20+ old men who have finished school, I am not surprised :). I hope to see you all in heaven some day, or if not I hope the worms are kind to us :)

mate being 15 is your saving grace. (can't really acuse a person of such tender years of being narrow) as you age/ mature/ growup you will become less insecure with your own position and you will not feel like you have lost a competition when someone doesn't see things your way.[/rant]

[@nDr3w]

...tend not to force anyone into church.

Bullshit.
"Hey, were from the local church group. We are young and morally appealing to all. We are technically not allowed into your school, as the government is supposed to be non-bias towards all religions, but that won't stop us coming into your local school and taking away valuable education time from students too young to realise they are being brainwashed by the most profitable organisation in the world"

The way I see life:
I strongly believe in Evolution, Big bang theory etc.
I believe there is a small possibility of some creation being, purely because science has not proven there isn't one, yet I do not live my life according to the "rules" said creator has creator-ed. yeah.

As I can find no euphemism, the way children AROUND THE WORLD are forced into religion, is comparable to rape, only of the mind.
Sickening.
[Rant/]

[wdshiver]

mate being 15 is your saving grace. (can't really acuse a person of such tender years of being narrow) as you age/ mature/ growup you will become less insecure with your own position and you will not feel like you have lost a competition when someone doesn't see things your way.[/rant]

I am not getting angry/ annoyed at the fact that someone does not see things my way. I am just stating the way I see things, I am not holding anything against anyone who is against what I say and I hope they do not hold anything against me for my personal beliefs. As I have said in alot of my posts in this thread, I am only stating my oppinion and beliefs, I am not trying to convert anyone to christianity but I am trying to enlighten them in the way that I see it.

[skeet]

Not being religious or anything, but if i was wrong about all of it not existing i would say.
"Wheres the 70ft hucks I'm dead now anyways"
Or " Why were we there?"

[@nDr3w]

I am not trying to convert anyone to christianity but I am trying to enlighten them

hehehe.
Sorry, I know you didn't mean it that way, but I couldn't let that slip up.
With editing like mine I think I'm fit to be a Journalist for channel 9:p

[Techno Destructo]

Oh well, I guess I'm losing a biased argument of oppinions with science involved. Mind you I'm only 15 so if I am losing an argument against 20+ old men who have finished school, I am not surprised :). I hope to see you all in heaven some day, or if not I hope the worms are kind to us :)

Dude, as I've said before, I was where you are when I was around 14-15, too. (A god-fearing, good christian kid, I mean...)
One experiences and learns a lot in twenty years. Good luck with your faith. It'll be interesting to see where you are, belief-wise, in your mid-30's. (Adamant replies of how you'll still be a devout follower of your particular faith is not necessary, btw...)

Oh, by the way... I'm not offended by religious people not understanding me or atheists in general. The more you understand the atheist mindset, the greater the chance of losing your own religion in the process. It's just a bit too risky.

I just wish we could leave religion as a set of personal guidelines to follow, and people wouldn't let their religion affect others.

[kernsy]

my RE teacher was talking about athiests the other day (this probab has nothing to do with the conversation and i am goin to get burned for it)He said "athiests dont believe in nothing they believe in anything" which is a quote by a person named B.K chesterton:)

[@nDr3w]

my RE teacher was talking about athiests the other day (this probab has nothing to do with the conversation and i am goin to get burned for it)He said "athiests dont believe in nothing they believe in anything" which is a quote by a person named B.K chesterton:)

Hence why I follow the church of Flying spaghetti monster, becasue anything is possible.

[ratdog]

my RE teacher was talking about athiests the other day (this probab has nothing to do with the conversation and i am goin to get burned for it)He said "athiests dont believe in nothing they believe in anything" which is a quote by a person named B.K chesterton:)

Hence the reason he is merely an RE teacher.

The very meaning of the word Athiest stems from A - "without" and Theos "A god".
He seems to have confused this with a polytheist which is the worshiping of multiple gods or religions.

Either way, he may as well have a PHD in dragon studies for what it's worth..........

[d3zm0nd]

You might say you feel sorry for wdshiver, but to be honest I feel sorry for atheists. Now I am not trying to convert anyone here, I'm just having my say.
Atheists believe in nothing, right?
In my opinion, everyone needs something to believe in. Now I'm not saying I can prove that God is real, noone can, but what I am saying is there has to be something more. Personally, I know that if I didn't have something to believe in, or rely on, I would be in a spot of bother. Now I know its cliche, but it's true, friends, even family will desert you, God won't.
Now, I realise I'll probably get flamed and someone will give me a full-fledged essay outlining the truth's of evolution, but it's not going to change anything.
Oh, and btw, about that whole death bed repentance thing.
1st off, who says your not gonna go quick?
2nd, won't do squat if your not sincere.
3rd, it's not about how many good deeds you do, or if your ying outweighs your yang or whatever, it's about believing in God and following him.
*Sigh*, flame away.
Don't forget, this is in no way a sermon to try and convert people, just giving my opinion.

[Regan of Gong]

Based on science, unless someone can repeat evolution on the scale claimed by evolutionists/aethiests, evolutionary theory will only ever remain theory.

However, based on religion/God being higher than science, which religious people tend to believe (keyword: tend), we will be able to believe in God based on religion/faith. Converting people is a matter of changing the mindset from science to faith based or vice versa yes? Just trying to get your views and beliefs sorted out.

We can't satisfactorily explain the origins of God, and you can't satisfactorily explain the origin of the universe, in point (no pun intended), the singularity. Unless we allow our mindset to be changed, we will never get anywhere, and it seems obvious we are both as stubborn as each other in this particular forum.

[Rik]

Atheists believe in nothing, right? In my opinion, everyone needs something to believe in.You don't need to believe in a diety to have a driving force in life. Having someone to answer to is just one way of justifying your actions, but answering to yourself can be as powerful.

[Doggy]

If it turns out we got it wrong......my words will be
"well f**k me drunk with a wooden spoon, would ya look at that"
:D

As an aethist, its not that I dont believe in anything.....I just dont believe in god/gods/whatever you call them. Rik pretty much nailed it on the head, I dont need a god to justify my actions to, I have myself, my family and my fiancee to answer to.....I think thats enough:D

[NeBoS]

Interesting thread, and yet quite civilized compared to past religious threads.

Wdshiver, i was exactly like you when i was your age - went to church and was a very strong believer. I think that i was this way inclined because i was brought-up with a religious family.

However, as i became older, i began to see things differently. In particular, that being a good Christian isn't about going to church every Sunday, and giving every cent. I can tell ya, it doesn't matter if you give all the money in the world and go to church every week, it wont make you a better person, and this is what being a Christian should be about, but these days it isn't.

You seem like a pretty switched on kinda person, so im not going to rave on, but i reckon that we all need to look beyond the facade of the modern church and try to understand the real meaning of religion.

I don't go to church anymore, but i do believe there may be a greater power, and i do believe in science, so i will just try to live my life the best i can, and be a good son, brother and partner. And if there is a god, hopefully they will see that i havn't been too bad (guess im stuffed, then).

[Techno Destructo]

3rd, it's not about how many good deeds you do, or if your ying outweighs your yang or whatever, it's about believing in God and following him.

It's a shame that I can live a life a good person, who really cares about other people, helps where he can, and always tries to do the right thing, simply because that's the way you'd want to be treated in return, and just because I don't believe in a certain god (or the "correct" religion for that matter....), I'm going to burn for eternity, eh?

Seems kinda unfair or screwy, doesn't it?

*EDIT* On the flip side, devout christians through history seem to get away with a heck of a lotta stuff, and because they believe and follow god (in the ways they see as correct), I'm pretty sure they're sure they're going to heaven...
So tele-evanglists... are they faking or are they really going to heaven?
What about the pope who was in charge during WWII and the holocaust... he turned a blind eye to all the jews being gassed... Is he sitting in heaven?
What about King Edward the 1st, who had roman catholic priests hang, drawn and quartered simply for holding catholic ceremonies. He was a heavy duty protestant who, according to history, believed deeply in god. What about him?
These are just three quick examples off the top of my head....

See my point?

[Binaural]

You might say you feel sorry for wdshiver, but to be honest I feel sorry for atheists. Now I am not trying to convert anyone here, I'm just having my say.
Atheists believe in nothing, right?
In my opinion, everyone needs something to believe in. Now I'm not saying I can prove that God is real, noone can, but what I am saying is there has to be something more. Personally, I know that if I didn't have something to believe in, or rely on, I would be in a spot of bother. Now I know its cliche, but it's true, friends, even family will desert you, God won't.
Now, I realise I'll probably get flamed and someone will give me a full-fledged essay outlining the truth's of evolution, but it's not going to change anything.
Oh, and btw, about that whole death bed repentance thing.
1st off, who says your not gonna go quick?
2nd, won't do squat if your not sincere.
3rd, it's not about how many good deeds you do, or if your ying outweighs your yang or whatever, it's about believing in God and following him.
*Sigh*, flame away.
Don't forget, this is in no way a sermon to try and convert people, just giving my opinion.

I have a question for you and the other Christians here - if someone behaves exactly as the bible prescribes but has never even heard of Christianity (because they live in sub-saharan Africa for example), will they go to hell anyway?

[NeBoS]

I have a question for you and the other Christians here - if someone behaves exactly as the bible prescribes but has never even heard of Christianity (because they live in sub-saharan Africa for example), will they go to hell anyway?

Interesting question. But i think the answer is yes, only because the whole point of getting people to join the church is to save their souls. But i reckon thats crap.

Have you seen that movie the Mission? Exactly what your talking about.

[whitey89]

The only way to get to heaven is by faith that Jesus was Gods son. Christianity is not a religion, you dont have to do anything. It is a faith all you have to do is beleive. If you are really an athiest then you dont beleive in anything therefore how can you beleive in atheism?

[Binaural]

The only way to get to heaven is by faith that Jesus was Gods son. Christianity is not a religion, you dont have to do anything. It is a faith all you have to do is beleive. If you are really an athiest then you dont beleive in anything therefore how can you beleive in atheism?

Don't be a dimwit. Atheism is the lack of belief, not some sort of belief-substitute for people who can't face the world without their thumb in their mouth.

Christianity is not a religion? News to the pope, I bet.

[scblack]

The only way to get to heaven is by faith that Jesus was Gods son. Christianity is not a religion, you dont have to do anything. It is a faith all you have to do is beleive.
So as long as I believe in God & Jesus, I can steal, kill, root, lie and do EVERY wrong thing, and still go to heaven.:rolleyes:

What CRAP.:eek:

There is an empty void between your ears.

[Techno Destructo]

The only way to get to heaven is by faith that Jesus was Gods son.
So it doesn't matter how good of a person you are?

Doesn't that seem flawed to you in SOME way?

And WHY would god (or jesus) care whether I believed in them or not? They're omnipotent right? All powerful? Why would they care? Think about that.

Do they have fragile egos or something?

*EDIT* Why is it always so hard to get straight answers from religious folks for questions like these? Is it because they don't want to really contemplate the question?

[Cave Dweller]

You might say you feel sorry for wdshiver, but to be honest I feel sorry for atheists.

I feel sorry for him because, despite what he thinks, he is too young to make an informed choice on the matter. His parents are obviously religious, you can not say that in the 15 years he has lived that has not influenced him at all, totally not possible. Fark, he hasn't even read anything about evolution therefore can not make an informed choice.

Atheists believe in nothing, right?

No, we don't believe in a diety. I do believe that i will have another beer though.......

In my opinion, everyone needs something to believe in. Now I'm not saying I can prove that God is real, noone can, but what I am saying is there has to be something more. Personally, I know that if I didn't have something to believe in, or rely on, I would be in a spot of bother.

I find that sad, i really do. Its like God is a big dummy to suck on. I don't need no deity to make me happy and make me feel like my life has meaning. Im quite happy that im in existence, so i'll be a happy, nice and upstanding citizen because that is what i expect others to be, not because of some God looking over me threatening me with punishment for eternity, and one day i will die when i get old and thats it.

[nomis7]

The only way to get to heaven is by faith that Jesus was Gods son. Christianity is not a religion, you dont have to do anything. It is a faith all you have to do is beleive. If you are really an athiest then you dont beleive in anything therefore how can you beleive in atheism?

If you have no bloody idea what your saying, don’t post by posting useless crap like this. This gives people the wrong impression of what “being” a Christian is.




I have a question for you and the other Christians here - if someone behaves exactly as the bible prescribes but has never even heard of Christianity (because they live in sub-saharan Africa for example), will they go to hell anyway?

I believe only God himself can answer that question.





Christianity is not a religion? News to the pope, I bet.
WTF does the pope have to do anything about being a Christian etc etc isn’t he catholic therefore he has a completely different view point as well.

[Techno Destructo]

It's funny to back up and look at this debate in perspective.

Both sides are probably chuckling to themselves on how misguided the other side is and amazed at how they can believe what they believe. And neither side is going to lose any supporters of it's cause through this thread... or just about any debate on the subject.

The only thing that will change people is their experience(s) in life. And it won't even be prompted, forced or encouraged. It'll just happen.

Anyhow, I love this debate. I just wish there were more straightforward answers without any dodging the actual questions.

Like, for instance... note the clever use of language used to enhance the other side's argument:

Atheists believe in nothing, right?

I'm sure this is a BIG catchphrase in religious circles to attempt to portray atheism in as negative a light as possible. It tries to dissuade any religious person from the atheist mindset by portraying it as anarchistic or nihilist. It's an emotive statement designed to trigger a reaction.

But the definition of "believe" is being distorted. They're trying to link the word belief or believe with the concept of spirituality.

I "believe" certain things to be true. I "believe" in the theory of evolution and the scientific methods and discoveries that have emerged over time. I "believe", like cave dweller, that another beer is a sound idea.

It's fascinating to see how politics, religion, marketing, and advertising have parallels.

Anyway, just making an observation on the debating tactics used on this topic. Let's keep going!:)

[Binaural]

I believe only God himself can answer that question.

That's the biggest cop-out I have ever heard. I think you know perfectly well what the answer is but don't want to admit it publicly. And if you truly believe God is the only one who can answer that question, then it also means God is condemning people to hell because he can't be bothered telling everyone the rules of the game he's playing with them.

WTF does the pope have to do anything about being a Christian etc etc isn’t he catholic therefore he has a completely different view point as well.

:rolleyes:

Honestly, do you know anything at all about your own religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity)? The pope is only the leader of probably the largest Christian sect in the world (Roman Catholics).

[Techno Destructo]

I believe only God himself can answer that question.

Well dodged!:D

[Oddjob]

Me: "Where am I?"

God: "You're in heaven."

Me: "Oh goodie, do you have swinger parties and oceans of class A drugs up here?"

God: "No"

Me: "How about mountain biking and beer?"

God: "No"

Me: "Cards and lemonade?"

God: "You can worship me and sing the praises of me for eternity."

Me: "Is it too late to marry that really horny Jew and get damned?"

[Techno Destructo]

Me: "Where am I?"

God: "You're in heaven."

Me: "Oh goodie, do you have swinger parties and oceans of class A drugs up here?"

God: "No"

Me: "How about mountain biking and beer?"

God: "No"

Me: "Cards and lemonade?"

God: "You can worship me and sing the praises of me for eternity."

Me: "Is it too late to marry that really horny Jew and get damned?"

You are SOOOO going to hell.:D

[LotteBum]

Interesting debate. Very civilized too, which impressed me.

Personally, I'm not religious at all. Definitely athiest. My parents brought me up to have an open mind. They told me that if I wanted to go to church, they'd happily drive me there, but that they didn't believe etc. I think that was a pretty good way of going about it.

As a kid, I guess I believed in heaven and hell and all that stuff. It would be pretty hard to tell your kid "Sorry dude, nanna's dead. No, she's not watching you!". Kids are full of life, enthusiasm etc. and I don't think that they're entirely ready to accept that the end of life isn't a terrible thing. At least now, I'm able to think that there will be world peace - for me at least - one day, when I die.

My experiences with religion since I became Athiest (around age 9 I suppose?) have been quite negative. My best friend from school told me all about all the hunks from youth group and tried to convince me to come along. I told her "No thanks. I'll never be forgiven for my sins!". That worried her and she told me that every time you sin, it's written down in a book. When you ask God for forgiveness, he wipes your sin pages. How very convenient. It should be noted that said person now has 4 children to 3 different fathers.

Each to their own I guess....

Lotte

[Sewer Cider]

Scary news just in: (today's Daily Terror)

91% of Americans believe in God.
48% of Americans do NOT believe in Evolution.
33% of UNIVERSITY EDUCATED Americans believe the Bible story that God created man.
6% of Americans do NOT believe in God.
62% of Americans would NOT vote for a political candidate who did NOT believe in God.

These are the people that decide the leaders of the world's SUPERPOWER.

Be afraid, be very afraid.

[whitey89]

Scary news just in: (today's Daily Terror)

91% of Americans believe in God.
48% of Americans do NOT believe in Evolution.
33% of UNIVERSITY EDUCATED Americans believe the Bible story that God created man.
6% of Americans do NOT believe in God.
62% of Americans would NOT vote for a political candidate who did NOT believe in God.

These are the people that decide the leaders of the world's SUPERPOWER.

Be afraid, be very afraid.

And 3% of americans cant add up

[nomis7]

That's the biggest cop-out I have ever heard. I think you know perfectly well what the answer is but don't want to admit it publicly. And if you truly believe God is the only one who can answer that question, then it also means God is condemning people to hell because he can't be bothered telling everyone the rules of the game he's playing with them.

:rolleyes:

Honestly, do you know anything at all about your own religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity)? The pope is only the leader of probably the largest Christian sect in the world (Roman Catholics).


Obviously you haven’t heard many cop outs before,:rolleyes: I actually don't know only God can judge whether or not someone get's into heaven. But you do have a good point with what you say.:)


Mate i would hate to think that you believe everything off the net, the pope is catholic much different to the "Christian" belief, If YOU know anything about religions you would know that catholic and Christians have different views on things.:rolleyes:

[Binaural]

Mate i would hate to think that you believe everything off the net, the pope is catholic much different to the "Christian" belief, If YOU know anything about religions you would know that catholic and Christians have different views on things.:rolleyes:

I posted that link for your education, since I already know what I am talking about. Catholics are merely the largest distinct subgroup within the christian religion (see for yourself (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_membe rs)), not a separate religion.

[whitey89]

If you have no bloody idea what your saying, don’t post by posting useless crap like this. This gives people the wrong impression of what “being” a Christian is.

I believe only God himself can answer that question.



Its true, for every "religion" out there, there is a bunch of rules to follow. Christianity has "guide lines" if you like on how to live as Gods children (ie 10 commandments ect) however if you break these rules you can still go to heaven as long as you genuinly repent and this is between you and God. Everyone has broken these rules (except Jesus) but because of Jesus dying for us, he has in effect saved us from these sins. If you follow Jesus then you obviously want to follow these "guidelines", it is hard and yes everybody breaks them.
For the people in deepest darkest Africa. There are verses in the bible where it says that God will judge people accordingly to how much they have heard so yes only God can answer this. But if you have heard but reject the Word then you are basically screwed! This is why we have missionaries, to tell people who havent heard.

[nomis7]

I posted that link for your education, since I already know what I am talking about. Catholics are merely the largest distinct subgroup within the christian religion (see for yourself (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_membe rs)), not a separate religion.

Umm yes, Catholics could be classified as the "same" as Christians but Christians and Catholics have different beliefs on doing things, the pope is catholic so he doesn't *really* have anything to with Christians;)

[nomis7]

Its true, for every "religion" out there, there is a bunch of rules to follow. Christianity has "guide lines" if you like on how to live as Gods children (ie 10 commandments ect) however if you break these rules you can still go to heaven as long as you genuinly repent and this is between you and God. Everyone has broken these rules (except Jesus) but because of Jesus dying for us, he has in effect saved us from these sins. If you follow Jesus then you obviously want to follow these "guidelines", it is hard and yes everybody breaks them.
For the people in deepest darkest Africa. There are verses in the bible where it says that God will judge people accordingly to how much they have heard so yes only God can answer this. But if you have heard but reject the Word then you are basically screwed! This is why we have missionaries, to tell people who havent heard.

Yeh explaining yourself is much better:p

Good arguemens/debates hear guys

[Oddjob]

Umm yes, Catholics could be classified as the "same" as Christians but Christians and Catholics have different beliefs on doing things, the pope is catholic so he doesn't *really* have anything to with Christians;)

I generally stay out of these bible bashing debates but I just couldn't resist this time. You are a shining example of why intelligent design can't be right. No intelligent being could have designed someone as stupid as you!

Before mouthing off about ecumenical differences you should perhaps learn what the words christian, ecumenical, catholic and protestant mean. Then read up on the history of the 'church' and the development of christian dogma and the reformation. Until then you should probably shut up before you make more of a laughing stock of yourself.

[Techno Destructo]

Umm yes, Catholics could be classified as the "same" as Christians but Christians and Catholics have different beliefs on doing things, the pope is catholic so he doesn't *really* have anything to with Christians;)

That is the most amazing thing about religion I've heard in years!

Catholics aren't christians?!?!?:confused:
Don't they believe in jesus christ? Isn't that the basic definition of "christian"?
I haven't heard of anything so amazing since I learned about how catholics priests were hung, drawn and quartered (anybody not familiar on what this means, should really Google it... it's pretty crazy...) on orders of a protestant monarchy a few hundred years ago.

Any catholics on Farkin reading this? What's your take on being labelled "not christian"?

Oh, by the way... could all religious people, for the sake of argument, state your denomination? Catholic, protestant, anglican, mormon, etc... It'll help keep things in context.

I was brought up in the anglican church, FYI.

[thecat]

Umm yes, Catholics could be classified as the "same" as Christians but Christians and Catholics have different beliefs on doing things, the pope is catholic so he doesn't *really* have anything to with Christians;)

Have you any idea of what you are talking about?

Catholics *ARE* Christians. Sure not all Christians are Chatholic, many sects have broken away, mainly over power disputes and little else, but the point is other christian dominions have broken away from the Chatholic church.

I had to laugh when attending a CoE baptism and found that they still use the words "Baptised into the holy chatholic church.." Talk about hedging your bets.


Nomis, you really should learn a bit more about the religion you are defending.

[nomis7]

That is the most amazing thing about religion I've heard in years!

Catholics aren't christians?!?!?:confused:
Don't they believe in jesus christ? Isn't that the basic definition of "christian"?
I haven't heard of anything so amazing since I learned about how catholics priests were hung, drawn and quartered (anybody not familiar on what this means, should really Google it... it's pretty crazy...) on orders of a protestant monarchy a few hundred years ago.

Any catholics on Farkin reading this? What's your take on being labelled "not christian"?


hahaha why is everyone quoting me? can't you understand what im f**kin saying hear? The "can" be classified under the heading of christians if that floats your boat what im saying for you dumb people is CHRISTIANS AND CATHOLICS HAVE SOME DIFFERENT BELEIFS...now get back on your own topic:p

[Adrian]

That is the most amazing thing about religion I've heard in years!

Catholics aren't christians?!?!?:confused:
Don't they believe in jesus christ? Isn't that the basic definition of "christian"?
I haven't heard of anything so amazing since I learned about how catholics priests were hung, drawn and quartered (anybody not familiar on what this means, should really Google it... it's pretty crazy...) on orders of a protestant monarchy a few hundred years ago.

Any catholics on Farkin reading this? What's your take on being labelled "not christian"?


I've heard this argument alot.

I laugh.

I think that's up to God, not up to a conservative protestant preacher to decide where I stand.

As for being sure of where I stand, if I am to believe in an interventionist God who has the power to judge me, I don't think I can find the arrogance to bypass his judgement and tell the whole world exactly what's going to happen to me when I die before it's all played out.

Besides.... Protestants can't get to heaven because they don't believe in the pope....:rolleyes: Didn't their movement start because some dude who happened to be a king didn't like his wife? :rolleyes:

Note the twice rolled eyes before you think to argue this point...

[thecat]

hahaha why is everyone quoting me? can't you understand what im f**kin saying hear? The "can" be classified under the heading of christians if that floats your boat what im saying for you dumb people is CHRISTIANS AND CATHOLICS HAVE SOME DIFFERENT BELEIFS...now get back on your own topic:p

Mate you don't seem to understand that Chatholics ARE Christian. Sure they have a different view on things than other christian sects , such a prodistants but they are christian.

Your above comment is like saying "Sure you *could* classify Poodles under the heading of dog if that floats your boat but they are different from grey hounds."

[nomis7]

Mate you don't seem to understand that Chatholics ARE Christian. Sure they have a different view on things than other christian sects , such a prodistants but they are christian.

Your above comment is like saying "Sure you *could* classify Poodles under the heading of dog if that floats your boat but they are different from grey hounds."

Sorry thats what i have been trying to say the whole time, the pope(poodle) has nothing to do with what a grey hound does or does he?:D

Now why are we having this discussion over the pope?actually dont answer that

Get back to the thread topic:)

[Techno Destructo]

hahaha why is everyone quoting me? can't you understand what im f**kin saying hear? The "can" be classified under the heading of christians if that floats your boat what im saying for you dumb people is CHRISTIANS AND CATHOLICS HAVE SOME DIFFERENT BELEIFS...now get back on your own topic:p


As thecat mentioned, I was under the impression that catholics, protestant, anglicans, etc... are all sub-classes or sub-sects of christianity. Kinda like how I thought jews weren't christians because they didn't recognize christ.

Could you answer some questions for a dumb guy like me?

What's the most basic definition of christianity?

Where did christianity get it's name from?

Do catholics believe in jesus christ?

[McBain]

Christianity, Judai