David Hicks

['Ross]

Well the issue of David Hicks has come back into mainstream media, so I thought Id extend it to off topic farkin:p This thread is not about what you think SHOULD happen to David Hicks, but what you think WILL happen to him.

So I guess cast your predictions here. I also realise its inevitable that people will talk about what they think should happen, criticise America and discuss the legality of Guantanamo Bay etc etc, this is all fine and I won't flame anyone for doing so. But the poll is strictly what you think WILL happen. Enjoy

[RCOH]

I think he will be found guilty & will eventually serve time in Australia, but I don't think it will be for a while.

I am undecided as to whether his guilty plea is a plea-bargain or not, but what I do find very unnerving (apart from the whole process in the previous 5 years) is that despite pleading guilty to a formal charge, Hicks now has to 'prove' his guilt by explaining to the military commission why he should be charged, as the judge (Military tribunal guy?) has not accepted the plea & will not until Hicks can explain himself.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Mahoney_007]

Where is the option for "I couldnt give a rats arse"?
:D

['Ross]

Where is the option for "I couldnt give a rats arse"?
:D

Just chuck it under the conspiracy theory choice;) Close enough.

[nlc8)]

What I think will happen to David is that they will sentence him to another 5 years imprisonment (to be served in Aust) they'll do that just to justify to themselves about what they have let happen to him for 5 years, somehow John Howard will think he can sleep at night because of that then.

[dok]

It's unsure what is going to happen. I reckon he put in the guilty plea just to get things moving, his treatment in Guantanamo was undoubtedly inhumane. Someone subject to those conditions will say anything to get out. I've got a feeling he's going to stay in Guantanamo for a while...

[demo man]

Where is the option for "I couldnt give a rats arse"?
:D

You seriously don't care?
Jeez - that's pretty unimpressive. I care, because it says something serious about both our leaders and our (or America's) justice system when this sort of shit goes down.

I don't think we'll ever find out if he did it or not - after five years at Guantanamo I can imagine giving in to confess...

Anyone catch the Chaser the other night? "First you serve your sentance, then you get convicted, and then finally you have your trial." As funny as it was, it's pretty sad.

Poor Hicks - guilty or not this is bullshit.

BTW - I don't have a clue what'll happen.

[Mahoney_007]

You seriously don't care?
Jeez - that's pretty unimpressive. I care, because it says something serious about both our leaders and our (or America's) justice system when this sort of shit goes down.

I don't think we'll ever find out if he did it or not - after five years at Guantanamo I can imagine giving in to confess...

Anyone catch the Chaser the other night? "First you serve your sentance, then you get convicted, and then finally you have your trial." As funny as it was, it's pretty sad.

Poor Hicks - guilty or not this is bullshit.

BTW - I don't have a clue what'll happen.

How did I know I'd see you in here at some point :p



Well you see this is part of the reason I dont care. We WONT EVER FIND OUT if he really is guilty.

As you said after 5 years of lets face it being locked up with no charge at Guantanamo you would be willing to say anything to get out. And he has.

Now I dont think it was fair to lock him up "without charge" but Hicks left Australia to play guns with a gang of (I really dont want to say terrorists, lets look at them as they are, a bunch of thugs who enjoy playing with weapons). For what reason? To have a nice chat and a bit of a lunch with the ethnic minority's of the world? I dont fucking think so.

Sorry but he is no longer an Australian and does not deserve to be treated as one, he willingly and conciously made a decision to put himself outside our life/laws and now wants to be treated "in a fair and just manner" sounds kinda hypocritical.


So yeah sum it up: being detained without charge or reason = Bullshit

Travelling half way around the world to run with a gang who have been named as having a hand in certain attacks killing hundreds and thousand of innocent lives around the world = More bullshit than I can possible poke a stick at.


And yeah about the justice system, did we really need something like this to happen to realise how fucked up our justice system is? We give repeat drink drivers licenses, we let people who have killed 2 poeple under the influence of drugs off with 15 months jail, and the locals around my area beleive its okay to just walk in the your back door and have a bit of a look around. And how many people are sitting in jail right now for something they didnt do? A fucking lot I bet.

[molzy13]

Just chuck it under the conspiracy theory choice;) Close enough.

thats what i done:p

[Gudsell]

Here's a though, fuck Hicks.

[EastsideZero]

Here's a though, fuck Hicks.

You might be in with a chance, he has been locked away for a fair while.

[Binaural]

Here's a though, fuck Hicks.

If that qualifies as a thought for you, I sincerely hope you never have to operate anything more dangerous than a pair of chopsticks.

[Gudsell]

Just expressing my opinion. We're still aloud to do that right?

[darth rider]

Here's a though, fuck Hicks.


Yes, very constructive.

I'm sure everyone can see the similarities with the recent Shapelle Corby debate.. same sham court system, same political motives for government(s). I personally am not convinced of any of the assertions that have been used as a basis for the case againts him. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and the chance to explain his actions. "The first casualty of war is the truth!"

However, to answer the question; I think he'll be convicted of the BULLSHIT charge they invented to try him with, returned to Australia to serve his sentence (if there's any more to serve), and used by our government the next time they want to win an election based on fear and misinformation.:mad:

[Rik]

Just expressing my opinion. We're still aloud to do that right?We'd prefer opinions that don't require a mop and bucket to clean up after being stated.

[Jon]

Hicks made a choice to go play with some nasty types and unless he was brainwashed ,Patty Hearst style (google it kids) then he would have had a fair idea of the outcome ,should he be caught.
What I reckon is the US military justice system is flawed to the point of being criminal in its actions.Should Hicks have been a suspect in the US civil justice system he would have been charged and tried within a couple of years .So much for the sales pitch they use when the US.oh sorry,the UN roll into and take over another country to install Democracy , justice and freedom.
I do not know if he is guilty but I do know that the system under which he is held smacks of hypocrisy.
cheers jon

[spyder6052]

what he done was stupid, but how he has been treated by OUR government was totaly incomprehensible. but thats our beloved john howard... US says jump he says how high

[Lemontime]

Can we have a "Don't really care" choice?

[Rik]

9 months, man he sure was one badarse terrorist to deserve such a harsh sentence.
The whole system has been made to look a joke, it's a shame that people have to suffer through it to show us just how bad it is.

[Binaural]

9 months, man he sure was one badarse terrorist to deserve such a harsh sentence.
The whole system has been made to look a joke, it's a shame that people have to suffer through it to show us just how bad it is.

^^^Read all about this hardened terrorist here (http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/hicks-to-serve-nine-months-jail/2007/03/31/1174761797302.html). Just to be crystal clear, this does NOT include the 5 years he has already been at Guantanamo bay, and is the full sentence for his crimes without any credit for time served. In other words, his crimes are roughly as bad as a high-range speeding offence, but he was worth holding for 5 years in solitary. Go the US!

[floody]

I say take him out of Guantanamo bay.
Instead, stick him in some shithole in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kashmir, belonging to the people he was actually training to go and fight against. Let THEM punish him.


I won't support this world police bullshit.

[Ryan]

My brain is having an incredibly difficult time coming to terms with that sentence, absolutely ludicrous.

[Binaural]

As a side note in this sorry affair, Hicks is actually the FIRST "terrorist" to be charged and convicted, largely due to pressure from Australia (soft, soft pressure but more than any other country apart from Britain has managed). If it takes the US 5 years to secure a 9 month sentence in a high profile case, I hereby predict that at least some of the inmates will take at least 7-10 years just to get to trial. Completely immoral, and a classic example of the proverb "justice delayed is justice denied". It is incredibly pathetic that the US is spending billions per month in Iraq but cannot arrange for speedy trials for captured prisoners.

[Cave Dweller]

Well, that should see him behind bars in Australia until after the election. What a load of shit.

[floody]

My brain is having an incredibly difficult time coming to terms with that sentence, absolutely ludicrous.

Why? I can't believe he went to afghanistan or whatever to train specifically to fight the americans, I thought he was picked up in Kashmir fighting with a faction there. Let whoever the Americans were supporting, i.e. the ones he was angling at attacking, be the ones who punish him.

If I punch you in the mouth, I don't expect some other random in the street at the time to press charges.

['Ross]

Why? I can't believe he went to afghanistan or whatever to train specifically to fight the americans, I thought he was picked up in Kashmir fighting with a faction there. Let whoever the Americans were supporting, i.e. the ones he was angling at attacking, be the ones who punish him.

If I punch you in the mouth, I don't expect some other random in the street at the time to press charges.

As Im led to understand it, he was picked up by the Northern Alliance who then sold him to the Americans. In the letters to his parents that were quoted in the documentary I watched he said he was 'trying to cause an Islamic Revolution and return the world to the rule of Islam' as well as 'If I die I will become a matyr' etc etc. If the Northen Alliance got to punish him Id assume they would just kill him on the spot.

[Binaural]

Why? I can't believe he went to afghanistan or whatever to train specifically to fight the americans, I thought he was picked up in Kashmir fighting with a faction there. Let whoever the Americans were supporting, i.e. the ones he was angling at attacking, be the ones who punish him.

If I punch you in the mouth, I don't expect some other random in the street at the time to press charges.

No, you'd expect the cops to pick you up, rather than allowing whoever you punched to come back with his mates and smash out all your teeth with a pipe. Think about what you are saying - handing over people to their enemies for punishment is a recipe for abuse. There are many, many reasons we have a judicial system where the severity of a crime is assessed by impartial judges and enforced by neutral police and if you step aside from your vastly oversimplified analogies for a minute and think about it you will understand why.

[PINT of Stella, mate!]

Hicks will be free by New Year

Mark Coultan in Guantanamo Bay
March 31, 2007 - 10:58AM

David Hicks will be out of jail on New Year's Eve after an extraordinarily lenient plea bargain agreement meant that whatever sentence he got, he would only serve nine months of it in jail.

The Military Commission panel – made up of serving US officers – gave him the maximum possible sentence of seven years. Even that was a reduction on the statutory maximum of life imprisonment.

But the pre-trial agreement meant that six years and three months will be suspended. This means that he will be released on the last day of the year, and as long as he doesn’t violate the terms of his agreement, he will stay out of jail.

The pre-trial agreement appears to have been designed with the Australian political calendar in mind.

As well as keeping Hicks in jail until after the election, due by the end of this year, Hicks also had to agree to not talk to the media for one year.

And if he talks to the media after that date, any proceeds he might collect will be forfeited to the Australian Government.

Under the plea agreement, he will return to Australia within two months, and is expected to serve out his term in a South Australian jail.

While the agreement might be politically convenient for the Howard Government, it will create problems for the Bush Administration. It appears to be a large thank you to the Howard Government for their support on the war on terror.

The effective sentence of nine months contrasts with the statements of the chief prosecutor Colonel Morris Davis who said earlier this week that his benchmark for Hicks’ crime of material support for terrorism was 20 years.

The American Taliban John Walker Lindh, who was also captured in Afghanistan at about the same time as Hicks, agreed to a plea bargain of 20 years in jail.

The Americans insisted that the time Hicks had already spent in Guantanamo Bay not be counted in the calculations of his sentence, because the United States insists that can hold enemy combatants for as long as hostilities continue.

theage.com.au

Well, there you have it. All very convenient for J-Ho and Co. but at least we'll see an end to this debacle soon enough.

[Ryan]

Why? I can't believe he went to afghanistan or whatever to train specifically to fight the americans, I thought he was picked up in Kashmir fighting with a faction there. Let whoever the Americans were supporting, i.e. the ones he was angling at attacking, be the ones who punish him.

If I punch you in the mouth, I don't expect some other random in the street at the time to press charges.

Sentence as in "The period of time he has been committed to serve in prison as a result of his guilty plea" not sentence as in "the words you strung together before I posted".

Context floody, context.

[nizai]

Best headline of the day...

"Hicks Sentenced to 1 Election Campaign in Adelaide Hellhole."

LOL

[johnny]

Just expressing my opinion. We're still aloud to do that right?Yes, but intelligent ones with an argument to go with it are the only type we're interested in.

Continuing to post crap like that and attempts to legitimate it will see your access to this site restricted. Grow up dude.

[intenselife]

Your q's are narrow.

['Ross]

Well looks like we know what is going to happen now so we can stop voting (I don't know how to close the poll). The majority of voters were correct and it looks like the conspiracy theorists are about to be proven wrong.

[bazza]

stopped reading ages ago but this is my opinion on the matter.

he is/was a prisoner of war. the war is over. why is he still being held?

if the USA can do this than Iran has every right to hold the British soldiers for as long as they want, and this could of been for no reason at all. but i doubt thats going to happen.

most bullshit situation. hes an Australian citizen and another country is holding him illegally and treating him inhumanely.

[red death]

Well despite our PM's denial there is a report from the US that a deal was indeed cut and the Oz govt was involved. Perhaps Bob Brown was right all along!

From today's The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22633686-601,00.html)


Howard and Cheney 'cut Hicks deal'

October 23, 2007

THE US and Australia cut a deal to release David Hicks from Guantanamo Bay, according to a report published in the US today.

The report, in Harper's magazine, quotes a US military officer as saying Hicks' freedom was negotiated directly by US Vice President Dick Cheney and Prime Minister John Howard.

“One of our staffers was present when Vice-President Cheney interfered directly to get Hicks' plea bargain deal,” the unnamed officer told today's edition of Harper's magazine.

“He did it, apparently, as part of a deal cut with Howard.

“I kept thinking: this is the sort of thing that used to go on behind the Iron Curtain, not in America.

“And then it struck me how much this entire process had disintegrated into a political charade.

“It's demoralising for all of us.”

Harper's magazine, launched in 1850, is the second oldest continuously-published monthly magazine in the US.

Hicks, 32, is due to be released from Adelaide's Yatala Prison at the end of the year after agreeing to a deal in March.

In return for a nine month prison sentence in Australia, the deal required Hicks to plead guilty to a charge of providing material support for terrorism.

A month before the plea deal, Cheney visited Australia and Hicks, who had been incarcerated at the US military prison facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, for five years, was a raging issue in Australian politics.

Hicks' plea deal surprised observers at Guantanamo for his trial because it was not negotiated by US Colonel Morris Davis, the chief prosecutor for Hicks' military commission, but by the commission's convening authority, Susan J Crawford, a former top official of Mr Cheney's Defence Department staff.

Mr Howard, after the deal was announced, denied involvement in the plea bargain.

“We didn't impose the sentence, the sentence was imposed by the military commission and the plea bargain was worked out between the military prosecution and Mr Hicks' lawyers,” Mr Howard said on March 31.

After the plea deal was made public, Australian Greens leader Bob Brown said, “the message has gone very clearly from Canberra to Washington to Guantanamo Bay: don't allow Hicks to be released until after the elections and certainly don't allow him to speak”.

Mr Howard rejected this too.

“And the suggestion from (Greens leader) Senator Brown, that it has something to do with the Australian elections, is absurd,” Mr Howard said at the time.

[dcrofty]

Surprise sur-farking-prise.

[Customjimmy]

[QUOTE=red death;1154246]Well despite our PM's denial there is a report from the US that a deal was indeed cut and the Oz govt was involved. Perhaps Bob Brown was right all along!

QUOTE]

It was fairly obvious from the start. Remove it is a pre-election issue and bury his release between Christmas and New Year (you'd be surprised how much stuff happens in those few days). This is precisely the shit that makes me hate the liberal government with such intensity. Lying, dodgy, immoral, unethical greedy scumbag c@#ts the lot of them. They have been doing this for 11 years you know:mad:.

Of course Bob Brown was right. He is the only bullshit-free zone in Canberra.

[Emmett]

Thanks for posting that article.

Politics in this nation is becoming increasingly more absurd.

[Dumbellina]

What you don't believe Howard denial? The man who personally negotiated Hick's condition with Bush and Cheney.

[Badams]

ill recon hell be in there for a long time a...very long time

[johnny]

ill recon hell be in there for a long time a...very long time1) learn how to spell.
2) learn how to follow events. Your post shows you have absolutely no idea what is going on. He is already in Australia and his release date is not too far away.

[PINT of Stella, mate!]

...and in other current affairs news, a young Queensland beautician has just been arrested in Bali allegedly carrying 4.5kg of Marijuana in a bodyboard bag...

Nice to see folk with their finger on the pulse

;)

[RacelineBoy]

Hope Hick's will be imprisoned for very very long time!!
He support terror and radical islam!!

[demo man]

Hope Hick's will be imprisoned for very very long time!!
He support terror and radical islam!!

Someone, please tell me he's joking!

[NeBoS]

Does anyone really know if Hicks is innocent or guilty?

The ludicrous outcome of this case to date was established by very insubstantial evidence, so the case to me cannot be taken seriously - its a blatant disregard for human rights, and Hick deserves a fair trial.

Unfortunately, it would seem that Hicks has been caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, and thus been utilized by the US as a means of advertising against terrorism and thus supporting Bush's intentions - so basically, Hicks is being used as propaganda.

[Drop_Bear]

Here is a link to the charges that were laid against him while he was in Guantanamo. There are a few key disputed facts in here. Have a read and see what you think. Personally i think whats in there isnt 1/2 as bad as the media has lead us to believe but serious none the less.


http://www.theage.com.au/editorial/2007/03/02/d20070301hicks%5B1%5D.pdf

[Customjimmy]

[QUOTE=NeBoS;1155408]Does anyone really know if Hicks is innocent or guilty?

QUOTE]

What is known is that he never broke the laws of any country. They had to fabricate laws to be able to charge him with anything at all.

[red death]

Does anyone really know if Hicks is innocent or guilty?

well we know he's not guilty of breaking any law in existence during the time he spent in Afghanistan. And as he's got kids he's clearly no innocent;)

but he's doubtless guilty of being a stupid idiotic mercenary & having no loyalty to Australia! As an Australian citizen, he ought have been fighting for none but Australia!

[Dumbellina]

As an Australian citizen, he ought have been fighting for none but Australia!

Does that extend to dual citizens, such as Israeli/Australian kids prosecuting wars in occupied Palestine?

[dcrofty]

As an Australian citizen, he ought have been fighting for none but Australia!

Or America

[red death]

Does that extend to dual citizens, such as Israeli/Australian kids prosecuting wars in occupied Palestine?

I have difficulty with the concept of dual nationality. In the event of war between the two, where would one stand?

[Dumbellina]

I have difficulty with the concept of dual nationality. In the event of war between the two, where would one stand?

Hopefully in a neutral third state pleading for sanity and peaceful political/diplomatic solutions.

[johnny]

What if a fascist government comes to power, am I allowed to fight against it? What should the French Resistance done for the Vishy Gov't, WW2?

[NeBoS]

What if a fascist government comes to power, am I allowed to fight against it? What should the French Resistance done for the Vishy Gov't, WW2?


Im not that into history, but i have to say that i find the French Revolution very interesting for the influence it had.

But yeh, i reckon that everyone deserves to fight for what they believe in, even if its your own leaders your fighting against. Its not about patriotism, but more a question of ethics.

[PINT of Stella, mate!]

As an Australian citizen, he ought have been fighting for none but Australia!

What about Aussies who sign up for the British (proper;)) SAS? There's been a few over the years

[Drizz]

I have difficulty with the concept of dual nationality. In the event of war between the two, where would one stand?

Depends. I think the answer is somewhere between "who pays the best" or "who most likely to win".

More seriously I think "nationality" is an archaic view of the world. I might get shot down in saying this, but in this modern world its each country's onus to appeal to its citizens the reasons behind why they should take pride in their country. Something like "national pride" should come from within the person not instill upon them from peer pressure.

I viewed myself as an "Australian", but I also view myself as a "citizen of the world".

[red death]

Depends. I think the answer is somewhere between "who pays the best" or "who most likely to win".

More seriously I think "nationality" is an archaic view of the world. I might get shot down in saying this, but in this modern world its each country's onus to appeal to its citizens the reasons behind why they should take pride in their country. Something like "national pride" should come from within the person not instill upon them from peer pressure.

I viewed myself as an "Australian", but I also view myself as a "citizen of the world".

I like that Drizz :)