Australia, a multicultural nation?

[nomis7]

Hey guys,

I was having a little chat with my brother last night about Australia becoming a more multicultural nation. With more and more people coming in from over sea’s I personally think Australia’s crime rate is increasing because of the different nationalities we have represented within Australia. With more and more gangs/groups being formed I don’t feel as safe riding in the city as I would have years ago.
I was thinking we could learn a lot just by using animals such as, you can’t combine 4 different animals in the one cage(EG: you can’t put a snake, a rat, a moth and a cat all in the same cage. Things just won’t run as smooth as just by having the one creature in an individual cage)


So what are you fellow farkiners thoughts on Australia becoming a more multicultural nation?
(None of this has been directed to be racist either:) )

Cheers,
Nomis

[Mojo]

i think this is a mjajor problem, and it always will be as such, the thing is that the majority of people are alright when they come to australia they accept australia's customs and values. but then you have group of people who come to australia, dont take the time and effort to learn our language or our customs and then wonder why thwey are not tollerated. if you come to australia speak english, it should become like your first language, and you take pride in your flag, because it is who we are as a nation. if you disrespect the flag you should not be here. no-one cares where you come from over here as long as you become an australian, this rubbish of burning australian flags and calling other people stupid skips and aussies from people thast live in australia is not gonna get them anywhere. if we go overseas visiting, we follow their customs, why cant they follow ours???

[leitch]

australia is not a multicultural nation or people. it may claim to be, but its not

[ajay]

australia is not a multicultural nation or people. it may claim to be, but its not

Define multiculturalism?

Having seen a fair few other countries, id say that Australia is definately more multicultural than many other countries.

[wtr]

With more and more people coming in from over sea’s I personally think Australia’s crime rate is increasing because of the different nationalities we have represented within Australia. With more and more gangs/groups being formed I don’t feel as safe riding in the city as I would have years ago.

You might as well as start drinking listerine to keep you intestinal tracts aseptic. There's no need to live in paranoid simply because there are some not-so-pleasant social elements floating around. It's always the few individual farkheads who act hard and gave the rest of their people a bad name. Multiculturalism is a wonderful thing because it allows you to tab into other cultures, study it, and extract their merits to implement into your own. Yes of course there are backward cultrual elements that migrants might have brought with them, but hey, nothing's perfect. It's up to them to allow themselves to try something new and merge in with the mainstream society, or live and work in a cultural confined area as you would see in Footscray and Springvale.

So, chill. Get out there and let them open your eyes. Respect is the best currancy going around.

[jjperko]

I was thinking we could learn a lot just by using animals such as, you can’t combine 4 different animals in the one cage(EG: you can’t put a snake, a rat, a moth and a cat all in the same cage. Things just won’t run as smooth as just by having the one creature in an individual cage)

(None of this has been directed to be racist either:) )

Cheers,
Nomis

Thats true to an extent but humans are all the same species. Maybe try this. Put 4 different breeds of dog into a cage, at first there may be fighting but before long a pecking order would have been sorted out with the strongest dog at the top. This kind of works in relation to humans as well.

[nomis7]

You might as well as start drinking listerine to keep you intestinal tracts aseptic. There's no need to live in paranoid simply because there are some not-so-pleasant social elements floating around. It's always the few individual farkheads who act hard and gave the rest of their people a bad name. Multiculturalism is a wonderful thing because it allows you to tab into other cultures, study it, and extract their merits to implement into your own. Yes of course there are backward cultrual elements that migrants might have brought with them, but hey, nothing's perfect. It's up to them to allow themselves to try something new and merge in with the mainstream society, or live and work in a cultural confined area as you would see in Footscray and Springvale.

So, chill. Get out there and let them open your eyes. Respect is the best currancy going around.


Yeh it's great to go riding and stuff but when you have an expenisve bike you kind aget pissed of when a bunch of people stop you and ask you if they can have a go(especially when they are bigger then you).

It's not just about people bashing you but have you seen when we have big tournaments the riots start forming into a culture on culture war:o

[leitch]

in response to Ajay -

in my view, multiculturalism needs a couple of major things.


segregation kept to a minimum - of course it cant be abolished as there are always going to be people wanting to live with family etc when they move in, but they shouldnt feel as though they are confined to one area - Sunnybank in Brisbane, for example (not sure of specific examples for down south, but im sure there would be massive ghettos of greeks etc in Melbourne and whatnot - correct me if im wrong)

understanding of the collective cultures - to be able to actually have a multicultural society, each of the various cultural groups needs to understand the needs of the others

probably the biggest one for me however, is this one: there needs to be more than just tolerance of the other cultures - there needs to be respect, acceptance, empathy, between the various cultures. you cant just have a whole bunch of people living together just barely tolerating those around them (as we seem to have now) for a place to be multicultural - then all it is is a bunch of ignorant cultural groups living in fear of each other


so yeah, multiculturalism to me is a lot more than having a bunch of different cultures living in the same country/state/city. i would say at this current point in time that what australia actually is is a cosmopolitan nation - we have a vast array of cultural groups, all who manage to tolerate the existance of the others (except for the occasional flair up/ethnic battle), yet there is no real appreciation or respect between the groups. this, to me is what makes a nation a multicultural one. you may have another view, and id love to hear it if you do :)

[nomis7]

Thats true to an extent but humans are all the same species. Maybe try this. Put 4 different breeds of dog into a cage, at first there may be fighting but before long a pecking order would have been sorted out with the strongest dog at the top. This kind of works in relation to humans as well.

Good point! But what does it take to solve these fights? Shouldn’t the dog which was in the cage first (Australians) be showed respect as it’s his home territory?:o

[leitch]

Good point! But what does it take to solve these fights? Shouldn’t the dog which was in the cage first (Australians) be showed respect as it’s his home territory?:o

where was the respect when the whiteys settled here first? terra nullius meant (to them) that they could just settle with no regard for the indigenous people.

i hate to say it, but a lot of your posts in these past couple of social-issue threads you've posted have been a bit naive. its good to see you can take a contrary argument though, a lot of the guys who post on here get all fired up and defensive if you try to get some debate going, so kudos to you, mate :) take note of what some of the more notable members say and try to learn something

[ajay]

in response to Ajay -

in my view, multiculturalism needs a couple of major things.


segregation kept to a minimum - of course it cant be abolished as there are always going to be people wanting to live with family etc when they move in, but they shouldnt feel as though they are confined to one area - Sunnybank in Brisbane, for example (not sure of specific examples for down south, but im sure there would be massive ghettos of greeks etc in Melbourne and whatnot - correct me if im wrong)

understanding of the collective cultures - to be able to actually have a multicultural society, each of the various cultural groups needs to understand the needs of the others

probably the biggest one for me however, is this one: there needs to be more than just tolerance of the other cultures - there needs to be respect, acceptance, empathy, between the various cultures. you cant just have a whole bunch of people living together just barely tolerating those around them (as we seem to have now) for a place to be multicultural - then all it is is a bunch of ignorant cultural groups living in fear of each other


so yeah, multiculturalism to me is a lot more than having a bunch of different cultures living in the same country/state/city. i would say at this current point in time that what australia actually is is a cosmopolitan nation - we have a vast array of cultural groups, all who manage to tolerate the existance of the others (except for the occasional flair up/ethnic battle), yet there is no real appreciation or respect between the groups. this, to me is what makes a nation a multicultural one. you may have another view, and id love to hear it if you do :)

I guess what you are saying is more along the lines of total cultural intergration, where the borders of cultural differences are not seen, but absorbed together. I believe that multiculturalism is purely about one country having vast array of cultures that DO manage to live together without conflict.

I dont think you'll find too much disrespect amongst the different races, but the minority do seem to ruin that, one out break between Greeks and Italians will impose some sort of stigma between the two races, when in reality most of them dont seem to care, they just want to run their business and take care of their family - like everyone else.

Sure we could be more multicultural, but I wouldnt say we arent multiucultural.

Considering the ambiguous nature of this topic, theres not alot to debate anyway, but for the most part what you say is true.

[LotteBum]

This is a sensitive subject for me, as a migrant. This is a bit long winded, but stick it out.

My family migrated to Australia from Denmark in 1989, when I was 8 years old. It was extremely difficult. Whether this had to do with the fact that my parents seemingly had little clue when it came to selecting an area in which to live, I don't know. We settled in Browns Plains. I went to Browns Plains Primary School and I hated it from day 1. The kids were horrible to the point where, had my parents been able to afford it, we'd have packed up and gone back.

These days I'm glad we didn't, but at the same time, I think it's important to understand that immigration is a huge, huge thing for anyone - kids in particular - kids who had no say in the matter and just had to do what their parents asked them to do. Until I was 8, we lived in a nice neighbourhood with nice kids and we loved school. I guess we expected that there wouldn't be too much difference between Denmark and Australia other than climate. Big mistake. It never ceases to amaze me just how different two so very western countries, with very similar values, can be so completely different. As my mum says, for her, it was like stepping into the 1940's - nothing like what she had expected.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that being a migrant as a kid was really though, and that given the vast difference in culture between Denmark and Australia, the difference in culture between Australia and Middle Eastern, African and even Asian countries, should not be underestimated.

The suburb we live in is home to a lot of African refugees (predominantly Sudanese). They're lovely people and I have a lot of time for them. That said, some of the males are strange and apparently they are a little bit of a problem in the area. From my observation, the women and children seem well adjusted (in fact the children are extremely well mannered, lovely kids), but the men often look vague, if not a little bit disturbed, for want of a better word. I can't help but feel sorry for them because of what they've no doubt witnessed. Many of them have witnessed unspeakable crimes and it really is no wonder that they are 'messed up' so to speak.

Whilst it is a worry, as is crime, I think the real problem lies with our government. They'd much rather leave these poor people in detention centres, than help to rehabilitate them and assist them with integrating into society. It's cruel to just let these poor folk find their own way into a society they know absolutely nothing about. They need a support network to help them integrate into Australian society.

We should at least have the courtesy to try to understand what they've been through in life.

I watched a show on SBS or ABC (sorry, can't remember - I was just channel surfing) a few weeks ago, documenting a Muslim/Christian get-together which was held somewhere down south. It was really interesting and both sides had excellent points to put across. One Muslim girl in particular, said that whilst she didn't condone gang violence, nor terrorism, she believed that we shouldn't treat the symtpoms - rather get to the root of the problem and sort it out. I couldn't agree more.

When I walk my dogs (by no means little toy dogs), I regularly walk past a bunch of African guys, hanging around in their bog collector pants etc. I don't find them intimidating at all, and I smile and say hi to them. That seems to shock them and they always smile and say hi back. I guess they're expecting that I somehow look down on them....

I think it's a sad state of affairs when all we can do is talk about 'the gangs' and 'the crime rate' etc. rather than dealing with the root of the problem.....

[Pete J]

Good point! But what does it take to solve these fights? Shouldn’t the dog which was in the cage first (Australians) be showed respect as it’s his home territory?:o

Good point, if people showed more respect for the Aborigines then maybe their collective situation wouldn't be so shitty!
And bogans such as yourself wouldn't be so boring...

This is a sensitive subject for me, as a migrant. This is a bit long winded, but stick it out.
My family migrated to Australia from Denmark in 1989, when I was 8 years old. It was extremely difficult.

I kind of know how you feel Lotte, thanks for posting! You bring a new dimension to the thread which makes it actually worth reading.
Anyone who doesn't like migrants should actually try being one, i bet 99% of them wouldn't even have the guts to do it. My folks immigrated to Australia many years ago and did their best to assimilate, despite being called 'wogs' at every turn. (We even lived in Browns Plains as well!)
I myself am an immigrant now, albeit in a much easier situation than most. I look like the majority here and can speak almost as well too, however it isn't always fun. I would really hate to be a black person here in Finland, they sure have a tough time seeing as they are so much in the minority.

[Rik]

The only thing preventing Australia from being truly multicultural is the type of ignorance exhibited above.
We are all humans living on the one planet, different cultures and colours shouldn't be what divides us. To crap on about respect for people and flags (a giant :rolleyes: to that) doesn't help. Respect works both ways. Those coming to this country are experiencing a big enough change as is (see LB and PJ's stories), to give them the cold shoulder or even criticise them for their background isn't going to help is it...
Letting the actions of minute minorities play on your views of multiculturalism just shows narrow mindedness and ignorance. Assimilation doesn't acheive anything either. It saddens me to think that people who have alot to offer our country culturally are rejected from society by small brained, big mouthed idiots who'd rather eat devon on white bread sandwiches with tomato sauce whilst watching Australias funniest home videos than open their mind to what experiences the world has to offer. Without immigration Australia would be a pretty shitty place to live.

[murrum]

It saddens me to think that people who have alot to offer our country culturally are rejected from society by small brained, big mouthed idiots who'd rather eat devon on white bread sandwiches with tomato sauce whilst watching Australias funniest home videos than open their mind to what experiences the world has to offer. Without immigration Australia would be a pretty shitty place to live.

Hear hear, but please dont diss AFHV.:D

[nomis7]

Yeh,
im not saying people who migrate are bad,
but it's when the minority of them come hear and somtimes start trouble,At our school we have alot of south african people, they are nicest people you will ever talk to and are so gratefull for what us(australians) somtimes take for granted.it only when people form gangs(generally a culture EG:mafia generally italians, KKK an American type gang and the blood's is another American one)come hear a start "gang" war/conflict that makes society and un-happy(don't really know how to word it) but otherwise as you say Australia wouldnt be the way it is without all these cultures:)

[leitch]

I guess what you are saying is more along the lines of total cultural intergration, where the borders of cultural differences are not seen, but absorbed together. I believe that multiculturalism is purely about one country having vast array of cultures that DO manage to live together without conflict.

fair call. i'd say yes i may mean some amount of cultural integration, but i want to stress that in no way do i mean assimilation. the whole point of multiculturalism to me is that those diverse cultures that exist be able to live together with mutual respect and understanding - i dont suggest they should all assimilate to one culture or another, as that is just contradictory and stupid as hell.

i think Rik really hit the nail on the head, and not much more needs to be said!

[Adrian]

The only thing preventing Australia from being truly multicultural is the type of ignorance exhibited above.
We are all humans living on the one planet, different cultures and colours shouldn't be what divides us. To crap on about respect for people and flags (a giant :rolleyes: to that) doesn't help. Respect works both ways. Those coming to this country are experiencing a big enough change as is (see LB and PJ's stories), to give them the cold shoulder or even criticise them for their background isn't going to help is it...
Letting the actions of minute minorities play on your views of multiculturalism just shows narrow mindedness and ignorance. Assimilation doesn't acheive anything either. It saddens me to think that people who have alot to offer our country culturally are rejected from society by small brained, big mouthed idiots who'd rather eat devon on white bread sandwiches with tomato sauce whilst watching Australias funniest home videos than open their mind to what experiences the world has to offer. Without immigration Australia would be a pretty shitty place to live.

I think that pretty much sums it up....

At the risk of appearing cynical (yep, I am, you all know it), all the opposition to immigration seems to originate nowadays from an ethnic majority who are well trained to be scared, spend their money, and vote for whoever is already in power.

The whole immigration argument coming up again after our history (think European immigration and the post-war construction era, the 80's Asian markets' boom that affected immigration and tourism to Australia, the internationalisation of our schools and universities, etc, etc blah blah blah) probably just means that they are again running out of things to be afraid of.

This country is better for having immigration leading to a determined, driven, multiskilled and multicultural society.

But then again, it could just be an election year... worked last time right?


Go flog a dead horse...

[leitch]

Yeh,
im not saying people who migrate are bad,
but it's when the minority of them come hear and somtimes start trouble,At our school we have alot of south african people, they are nicest people you will ever talk to and are so gratefull for what us(australians) somtimes take for granted.it only when people form gangs(generally a culture EG:mafia generally italians, KKK an American type gang and the blood's is another American one)come hear a start "gang" war/conflict that makes society and un-happy(don't really know how to word it) but otherwise as you say Australia wouldnt be the way it is without all these cultures:)

sorry, but thats misguided as hell. i cant even be bothered pointing out the folly in that post.

however, i will say this. you say that its the minority in these minority groups who come here and start shit? id say its the other way around. its the minority in the WASP australian majority who the cultural minority are responding to - i dont believe anyone would migrate to another country and start flipping people off. i think you will find that they migrate here looking for a fresh start, and get a bunch of narrowminded racist rednecks who wont accept other people coming into "their" country

[nomis7]

sorry, but thats misguided as hell. i cant even be bothered pointing out the folly in that post.

however, i will say this. you say that its the minority in these minority groups who come here and start shit? id say its the other way around. its the minority in the WASP australian majority who the cultural minority are responding to - i dont believe anyone would migrate to another country and start flipping people off. i think you will find that they migrate here looking for a fresh start, and get a bunch of narrowminded racist rednecks who wont accept other people coming into "their" country

You have never been in a gang before?

Your point is true however a family may come to Aus with there 5 yr old kids, now the parents maybe looking for a fresh start however the kids will grow up(when i say this i mean the minority)they will then have there mates, may end up joining a gang themselves then they sometimes can be the ones starting racial fights(i think this sort of behavior would come from when they were young they must have been racitial-ally insulted and then when they grow up they want to get back at people[I guess])

[leitch]

You have never been in a gang before?

Your point is true however a family may come to Aus with there 5 yr old kids, now the parents maybe looking for a fresh start however the kids will grow up(when i say this i mean the minority)they will then have there mates, may end up joining a gang themselves then they sometimes can be the ones starting racial fights(i think this sort of behavior would come from when they were young they must have been racitial-ally insulted and then when they grow up they want to get back at people[I guess])
no, ive never been in a gang before. i tried to join one once, but as i don't belong to an ethnic minority group, they wouldn't let me.

age has no bearing. in fact, i think you will find that the young kids are less likely to be affected by racial stereotyping as a bi-product of their natural innocence and ignorance. saying that someone became racially motivated as a result of abuse as a child is stupid - it wouldnt be until they were mature enough to understand the abuse that they could become such. sure there will be kids who just follow their friends into a state of racial tension, but this happens everywhere. they sure as hell have more of a reason to be angry than the stupid rednecks do

[Rik]

At the risk of appearing cynical (yep, I am, you all know it), ...But then again, it could just be an election year... worked last time right?Yahuh... :D
What makes the problem worse is because it's the majority that's breeding prejudices and ignorance little can be done to stop it. Kids are growing up with their parents cursing imports, they read and hear the media carrying on about what is good and right for Australia and they're not taught to question such views.
Not questioning or protesting racism is as bad and maybe worse than openly supporting it, as you create a culture of complacency with regards to racism. If noone will call you out for deriding another race/culture, how will you learn that it's wrong? It feels as if there's an underlying culture of racism in alot of media and the general public, they'll never openly admit that. When you have "current affairs" shows picking on minorities and promoting stereotypes you can see where part of the fear and racism comes from. Of course you get the "I'm not racist, some of my best friends are xyz but I just believe that such and such shouldn't do so and so in our country". Painfully deluded and ignorant.
I know little about ethnic gangs, but can see that part of the reason for sticking with a common ilk is that being a displaced culture suffering from all sorts of descrimination you look for those you can associate and identify with, and stand up/rebel for what you believe in. Back someone in to a corner and they'll eventually fight back. Starting life in another country on the back foot and then copping shit from others at every turn is a good way to get backed in a corner. Don't forget personal identity is a big part of what makes us who we are. Take someones identity away from them by denying them freedom to express themselves culturally and you'd expect repercussions of sorts. When it's taken too far then that's bad news, but you can't say it's only ethnic gangs causing trouble because I bet there's a whole lot worse coming from "aussies" than "others" put together.

[thecat]

Look at our histories worst acts of voilent crime and what names do you see?

Travers
Murphy
Murdoch
Bryant

Weird, foreign sounding names if you ask me....:cool:

[Rik]

MurdochHe's an American now, though? Intercontinental crimes of racism :eek:

[LotteBum]

Someone mentioned earlier, about South Africans being generally good etc. I agree. I work with several South Africans and they are lovely people.

However..... I've noticed that they have a tendency to be very, very racist to the point where it's just beyond me. I guess, they're at the other end of the scale - having lived in a country in which black and white people are defiant 'enemies' (again, for want of a better word). It makes me really uncomfortable when they talk of "the blacks" and "niggers" etc. It really makes me want to pipe up and say something, but so far I've just held my breath and counted to 10.

As far as I know, immigration laws in Australia are quite tough (my parents applied twice, and were declined the first time on the basis that I wear hearing aids.... which I pay for myself). This leads me to wonder if being racist is a question that is simply not raised on immigration application documents? Does anyone here know what the story is?

Cheers,
LH

[wtr]

Yeh it's great to go riding and stuff but when you have an expenisve bike you kind aget pissed of when a bunch of people stop you and ask you if they can have a go(especially when they are bigger then you).

It's not just about people bashing you but have you seen when we have big tournaments the riots start forming into a culture on culture war:o
1. I wasn't referring to riding when I said "Get out there", think for a bit would you?

2. What's with all this paranoid of gangs and reference to gangs? As if we don't know they exist. Shit happens, deal with it.

[ajay]

2. What's with all this paranoid of gangs and reference to gangs? As if we don't know they exist. Shit happens, deal with it.

And its not just the ethnic minorities who fight in gangs...

[johnny]

Nomis7. I'd wait until you spend a good few more years on this earth before formulating too many complex social theories. I'm not trying to be a smart arse, at all. I'm serious. When you get older you look back on the way you first saw things and shake your head at yourself.

I'm tipping (hoping like hell) you'll do the same with this theory. :)

[matty_101]

nomis, mate. nearly all of what you said is poorly thought out shit. the nievety of what you said made me embarassed just reading it. there is very little connection between being an ethnic minority and being in a gang. i know first hand many aussies in gangs, and in the city everyday i see all the different crews and there are as many racial minorities as there are aussie minorities, you fail to see that there is a minority in every race. in the city i see a few crews made predominantly of aussies, however i also see asian crews, african crews, hispanic crews, the percentage of these ethnic minorities is about the same as aussie minorities. it has been said millions of times, people fear what they dont understand, and i think this applies to you, you dont understand these people, and until you do, you cant say anything about their situations. again, the notion that ethnic people are disrespectful to our country and that they are the reason that were a rascist country, is honestly, fu@#ing bullshit, we have an ingrained notion that immigrants are problematic people for the most part and we look down on them and treat them differently, so they have no choice but to band toghether with the only people they feel comfortable around. and thats their fault is it????? i used to think the same way as you did, until i saw how badly we treat ethnic people, and the major turning point was seeing a group of aussies smash some random asian kid just because he was asian. as it was said before the only way that we can change this is by having some empathy for people and showing them some respect, because why should they show us respect just because its our country.....wait its not even our country, we stole it.

[BJ-]

Society is to blame for creating gangs and allowing them to remain active, not multiculturalism.

The fact that you see and have seen asians and wogs etc in gangs is irrevelant. I live in a rural country town with none of these so called 'foreigners' and we've got a local gang of punk ass teenage 'whiteboys' who think there 'hard'.

The reason these punks get away with stealing, assault and causing the trouble that they do, is because of our lazy local police force and there in-ability to track and keep tabs on the assholes.

Local government and the police need to crack down on gangs and youth related crime to stop these problems at the source before they develop into bigger things later in life. Deporting migrants wont solve anything because there not the problem. Socitey is...

Or at least thats how i percieve the situation...

***Multiculturalism is awesome because without it we wouldnt have smoking hot asian women to tapp into! Whoot!***

[Rik]

You can have your Asians, I'm liking African women right now... ooohhh yeah :cool:
(finding one that'd give me the time of day is another story though)

I'm willing to accept any supposed negative effects of multiculturalism (which in my mind there aren't anyway) because the benefits of a variety of beautiful food and beautiful women that immigration brings to us can't be ignored.

[dcrofty]

A touch off topic perhaps but still pertinent I hope.

Why is it that people who have Caucasian appearance are referred to as 'Aussies' whilst a person who has facial features that indicate a background from some parts of Asia is still referred to as 'Asian' despite the fact that its entirely possible that their family has been in Australia for many generations.

Often its not even a deliberately racist statement (although it certainly can be) but more a lazy way of describing people without really thinking of what is being said.

Classic examples are comments like "Asian drivers".

Asian is not a distinct racial group dammit. it bugs me.

[Matt H]

A touch off topic perhaps but still pertinent I hope.

Why is it that people who have Caucasian appearance are referred to as 'Aussies' whilst a person who has facial features that indicate a background from some parts of Asia is still referred to as 'Asian' despite the fact that its entirely possible that their family has been in Australia for many generations.

Often its not even a deliberately racist statement (although it certainly can be) but more a lazy way of describing people without really thinking of what is being said.

Classic examples are comments like "Asian drivers".

Asian is not a distinct racial group dammit. it bugs me.

It's distinct enough though, ie european people, african people, south american etc.

[NCR600]

Here's a funny thing. My girlfriend is Maltese and has a typical mediterranian complexion. She goes out in the sun for half a day and she's brown as anything. Anyway, she works with a bunch of Indian teachers in her science dept. and they were discussing some racial issue, and the comment was "You'd understand because you're "black" like us".

If Indians consider themselves, and Maltese people to be black, well, if that's multiculturalisim I don't want any part of it.

What we have here is a group of 2 monocultures, one Anglo Saxon (Northern European) and one consisting of everyone else. I'd have expected better from teachers.

Multiculturalisim in Australia has been a bit of a lie, whilst you see some shining examples of it, giving a sense of optimisim for the future, it does seem to create tensions where you get communities of people forming from a single background. Whilst it is understandable that people of similar backgrounds tend to stick together, what is unforgiveable is the isolationist stance drawn on both sides of the argument. A friend of mine was refused service in a hairdresser's in Eastwood, because "this shop is only for Korean people"

Bloody idiots of all cultures are the problem. Let's ban bloody idiots.

[EastsideZero]

A touch off topic perhaps but still pertinent I hope.

Why is it that people who have Caucasian appearance are referred to as 'Aussies' whilst a person who has facial features that indicate a background ...


I hate that, on my mothers side my roots go back to the first fleet (Cornstalks), But on my fathers side it is mixed and i have olive skin and dark hair. I've copped racist shit my whole life, usually from people whose familys have been here less time than mine has!

[dcrofty]

It's distinct enough though, ie european people, african people, south american etc.

So if I put a Caucasian whose family has been in south africa for 300 years in a lineup with a bunch of "Aussies" you'd be able to pick the "african"?

I know that there are different races around the world who look different (absolutely no difference whatsoever on a genetic level I might add) but my point is that we continue to pigeonhole people once they have moved somewhere else purely because they look different. A racial background is just that, a background, not a defining characteristic of the person themselves.

I don't want to make too much of an argument of this, its not a massive point, although hopefully people might think a bit more about how they refer to people.

[NCR600]

I know that there are different races around the world who look different (absolutely no difference whatsoever on a genetic level I might add)

Can you or anybody else who knows explain to me how that works? I've heard it said before, but not sure I understand. Isn't having ginger hair controlled by genetics? If so, how come having negroid features isn't?

Not trying to dispute the claim or anything, I just don't understand the how of it.

[matty_101]

Society is to blame for creating gangs and allowing them to remain active, not multiculturalism.

The fact that you see and have seen asians and wogs etc in gangs is irrevelant. I live in a rural country town with none of these so called 'foreigners' and we've got a local gang of punk ass teenage 'whiteboys' who think there 'hard'.

The reason these punks get away with stealing, assault and causing the trouble that they do, is because of our lazy local police force and there in-ability to track and keep tabs on the assholes.

Local government and the police need to crack down on gangs and youth related crime to stop these problems at the source before they develop into bigger things later in life. Deporting migrants wont solve anything because there not the problem. Socitey is...

Or at least thats how i percieve the situation...

***Multiculturalism is awesome because without it we wouldnt have smoking hot asian women to tapp into! Whoot!***


Sorry, was that directed at me? if it was, that was the point i was trying to make. i was trying to say that the race makes no difference to the likliness of gangs being formed, these minorities are the same for every race. i TRIED to say this in reaction to his statement of ethnic people being more likely to form gangs, my mistake, i worded it poorly. well that is if it was directed at me

[dcrofty]

Can you or anybody else who knows explain to me how that works? I've heard it said before, but not sure I understand. Isn't having ginger hair controlled by genetics? If so, how come having negroid features isn't?

Not trying to dispute the claim or anything, I just don't understand the how of it.

You know what, I've given people crap in the past for posting stuff they cannot substantiate and here I've kind of done it myself.

I got this concept from a TV show (credibility plummets further) not very long ago. I think it was Catalyst on the ABC. Basic claim as I remember it was that recent maps of the human genome had shown that if you put the maps of two people in front of a geneticist they would not be able to deduce their appearance from it. Basically (and I really hate this term so apologies for using it) there is no "slanty eye" gene for example.

I also know an American company claims to be able to extract detail of appearance and racial background from a drop of blood or tissue but I don't know how well its been tested and substantiated so I may have got this wrong.

I'm happy to be corrected on this one. perhaps I should have said the difference is very small.

[nomis7]

Nomis7. I'd wait until you spend a good few more years on this earth before formulating too many complex social theories. I'm not trying to be a smart arse, at all. I'm serious. When you get older you look back on the way you first saw things and shake your head at yourself.

I'm tipping (hoping like hell) you'll do the same with this theory. :)


Thanks Johhny ill respect anything you say;)


Sorry, was that directed at me? if it was, that was the point i was trying to make. i was trying to say that the race makes no difference to the likliness of gangs being formed, these minorities are the same for every race. i TRIED to say this in reaction to his statement of ethnic people being more likely to form gangs, my mistake, i worded it poorly. well that is if it was directed at me

I'm with you hear, however what im more so saying is that people generally tend to join a gang that specializes (if you like) in that culture. I have been in a gang myself, they were mostly New Zealanders however we did have the odd white person so therefore you are right with what you say. However I will still support my argument that a gang is generally made up of a high percentage of the one culture:o

[matty_101]

I know that there are different races around the world who look different (absolutely no difference whatsoever on a genetic level I might add)
aahahahahahahah that is so incredibly wrong. please refrain from subjecting us(me) to such crap

[d3zm0nd]

Can you or anybody else who knows explain to me how that works? I've heard it said before, but not sure I understand. Isn't having ginger hair controlled by genetics? If so, how come having negroid features isn't?

Not trying to dispute the claim or anything, I just don't understand the how of it.

Umm i know from science (at school) that ginger hair is a recessive gene, so if there is a black haired gene there, it will dominate, you have to get 2 ginger genes to have a ginger kid. Not sure how that relates to negroid features or if that's what you were askin but hey, i tried.
Also, in Rabbit Proof Fence, it talks about the Aboriginal gene being recessive, and that they therefore plan to "breed it out", so i'm not sure how that fits in with the same genes business. (Please don't hesitate to correct me if i'm wrong, which i probably am)
Oh, and some might say that Aussies make the worst "gangs", and sure have comitted some atrocities. I.E, the White Australia Policy and the Stolen Generation, and, more recently, Cronulla. So i don't think we should be entirely blaming minorities.

[Drizz]

***Multiculturalism is awesome because without it we wouldnt have smoking hot asian women to tapp into! Whoot!***

Thats great, but where are the smoking hot white chicks? :rolleyes:

.......what is unforgiveable is the isolationist stance drawn on both sides of the argument. A friend of mine was refused service in a hairdresser's in Eastwood, because "this shop is only for Korean people"


Reverse racism is even more sad. Its Hypocritic IMO.

I'm with you hear, however what im more so saying is that people generally tend to join a gang that specializes (if you like) in that culture. I have been in a gang myself, they were mostly New Zealanders however we did have the odd white person so therefore you are right with what you say. However I will still support my argument that a gang is generally made up of a high percentage of the one culture:o

Yeah, but thats what gangs are, its a collection of people that has a single characteristic that identifies them. Technically Farkin is a "gang" because we have a common identity. We even have our own T-shirt and gang tags, so welcome to the "gang". :)

Nomis7. I'd wait until you spend a good few more years on this earth before formulating too many complex social theories. I'm not trying to be a smart arse, at all. I'm serious. When you get older you look back on the way you first saw things and shake your head at yourself.

I'm tipping (hoping like hell) you'll do the same with this theory. :)

Make sure its "different" part of Earth. ;)

After a weekend in Paris, France is a even bigger melting pot than Australia (From my observation). In France they have people of all extracts and its common for people to mingle and have interracial relationships and been doing it as long as Australia, maybe even longer. However they still have problems like what happened last week in Gard Du Nord where most of the "rioters" are of a Black African extracts. Alot of people will say its a race issue and immigration policy will fix that. (If you listen to the right wing French politicans that is.) But to me its not just a simply race issue but a complicated social issue that a particular race happened to be the majority.

Which brings me to the point, are we looking at a racial issue here, or are we looking at a fundamental social issue where class equality is not addressed? If we raised some of these migrants above the povety line will it address some of these issues? Like with the Greeks and the Italians where now days they stand on a "equal" footing with the rest of society.

I have nothing to offer for isolationist view within each group. To me these are traits associated with certain racial groups which darn I say is almost impossible to change with the current generation. My only thought is that hopefully this is just a short term issue.

[muzza167]

All you have to do is look at a place like Broome. It is possibly the most multi-cultural city in Australia. They have been getting along for years. I know more about this after recently reading a novel by Garry Disher called The Divine Wind. Worth a read.
I can't see why people don't get along. A lot of people judge/blame other people from different nationalities for their countries mistakes. Serious, it isn't their fault... Just look at the U.S. George W. Bush has not done any favors for the country as far as a peaceful image goes...

Sorry if i have repeated someone else's story previously told in this thread. I'm at school and i didn't have time to read the whole thing.

[Dumbellina]

I know that there are different races around the world who look different (absolutely no difference whatsoever on a genetic level I might add)


Can you or anybody else who knows explain to me how that works? I've heard it said before, but not sure I understand. Isn't having ginger hair controlled by genetics? If so, how come having negroid features isn't?

Not trying to dispute the claim or anything, I just don't understand the how of

aahahahahahahah that is so incredibly wrong. please refrain from subjecting us(me) to such crap


The genetic difference between two humans is nil. The human genome is the exactly same for all humans, there is no black genome, white genome, asian genome. The whole of human DNA is the same, that is what makes us one species Homo sapiens.

The genetic "differences", eg ginger hair, straight hair, curly hair, baldness, are to do with the expression of genes. That is what sections of the DNA molecule are being used to create the features we observe. It's the same DNA, only that different genes are being used to create the features.

The differences we broadly call "race" are so genetically insignificantly small that we say there is no difference, hence we are all one species. This is because modern humans are in evolutionary terms a rather new species (about 100,000 years old according to the fossils around now). It means that there has only been very few mutation or changes to the DNA structure since the first "humans" evolved from proto-humans (H. erectus, etc). These changes are so few that they can be used to track human migration out of Africa about 50,000 years ago).

The racial differences are due evolutionary changes to the human form in response to environment, particularly diet and climate, and isolation from other humans. The genes themselves have not changed, rather evolution means that the expression of certain genes which creates improvements in the survival and reproduction of the persons is naturally selected according to the natural environment and competition from others - this is the gist of Darwinian evolution.

So there is no "black gene" or genes, rather the obvious suite of features are usually attributed culturally or derrogatorially, and are only to do with what genes are being expressed and which ones aren't.

[ajay]

You can have your Asians, I'm liking African women right now... ooohhh yeah :cool:


Eddyyyyyyyyyy!

What have you done for me latelyyyyyy?

[leitch]

i reckon multiculturalisms :mad:
If they come over here they learn english. Learn our customs. and leave there way off life and abide by ours.
I have no problem with religion practices as long as its safe.

I do not like them to come over here and still live as if they were in there own country.
Its ours and they should respect that.

you're a fucking knob

you should be deported

[LotteBum]

i reckon multiculturalisms :mad:
If they come over here they learn english. Learn our customs. and leave there way off life and abide by ours.
I have no problem with religion practices as long as its safe.

I do not like them to come over here and still live as if they were in there own country.
Its ours and they should respect that.

How about you learn to speak (and write) English before you demand same of others? :cool:

I'll bet my left leg that your opinion is second hand - that it's based on information from other parties (friends, family, Today Tonight, A Current Affair etc), rather than your own experiences.

Get out there, boyfriend.

[wtr]

i reckon multiculturalisms :mad:
If they come over here they learn english. Learn our customs. and leave there way off life and abide by ours.
I have no problem with religion practices as long as its safe.

I do not like them to come over here and still live as if they were in there own country.
Its ours and they should respect that.
So I'm assuming you are fluent in any one of the Aborigine’s dialects.. :rolleyes:

Fuck off with your pea brain!

[NCR600]

The genetic difference between two humans is nil. The human genome is the exactly same for all humans, there is no black genome, white genome, asian genome. The whole of human DNA is the same, that is what makes us one species Homo sapiens.

The genetic "differences", eg ginger hair, straight hair, curly hair, baldness, are to do with the expression of genes. That is what sections of the DNA molecule are being used to create the features we observe. It's the same DNA, only that different genes are being used to create the features.

The differences we broadly call "race" are so genetically insignificantly small that we say there is no difference, hence we are all one species. This is because modern humans are in evolutionary terms a rather new species (about 100,000 years old according to the fossils around now). It means that there has only been very few mutation or changes to the DNA structure since the first "humans" evolved from proto-humans (H. erectus, etc). These changes are so few that they can be used to track human migration out of Africa about 50,000 years ago).

The racial differences are due evolutionary changes to the human form in response to environment, particularly diet and climate, and isolation from other humans. The genes themselves have not changed, rather evolution means that the expression of certain genes which creates improvements in the survival and reproduction of the persons is naturally selected according to the natural environment and competition from others - this is the gist of Darwinian evolution.

So there is no "black gene" or genes, rather the obvious suite of features are usually attributed culturally or derrogatorially, and are only to do with what genes are being expressed and which ones aren't.

So essentially, everyone has the same genes, just different ones are turned on or off to create different physical characteristics?

Cheers for clearing that up btw.

[dcrofty]

The genetic difference between two humans is nil. The human genome is the exactly same for all humans, there is no black genome, white genome, asian genome. The whole of human DNA is the same, that is what makes us one species Homo sapiens.

The genetic "differences", eg ginger hair, straight hair, curly hair, baldness, are to do with the expression of genes. That is what sections of the DNA molecule are being used to create the features we observe. It's the same DNA, only that different genes are being used to create the features.

The differences we broadly call "race" are so genetically insignificantly small that we say there is no difference, hence we are all one species. This is because modern humans are in evolutionary terms a rather new species (about 100,000 years old according to the fossils around now). It means that there has only been very few mutation or changes to the DNA structure since the first "humans" evolved from proto-humans (H. erectus, etc). These changes are so few that they can be used to track human migration out of Africa about 50,000 years ago).

The racial differences are due evolutionary changes to the human form in response to environment, particularly diet and climate, and isolation from other humans. The genes themselves have not changed, rather evolution means that the expression of certain genes which creates improvements in the survival and reproduction of the persons is naturally selected according to the natural environment and competition from others - this is the gist of Darwinian evolution.

So there is no "black gene" or genes, rather the obvious suite of features are usually attributed culturally or derrogatorially, and are only to do with what genes are being expressed and which ones aren't.

Ta for sorting that out. T'was a much better summation of what I was trying to say than I could ever have managed.

[johnny]

i reckon multiculturalisms :mad:
If they come over here they learn english. Learn our customs. and leave there way off life and abide by ours.
I have no problem with religion practices as long as its safe.

I do not like them to come over here and still live as if they were in there own country.
Its ours and they should respect that.

you're a fucking knob

you should be deported

So I'm assuming you are fluent in any one of the Aborigine’s dialects.. :rolleyes:

Fuck off with your pea brain!Ease up on the name calling boys.

LyonsDJ metal head dude, I hope you never get in a position to determine public policy.

Do you ever eat kebabs, spaghetti, fried rice, sushi, listen to hip hop, wear anything other than drizzabones, akubras and blundstones? If so, you are acting in a multicultural way yourself. I don't want to live in a monoculture, I like different kinds of food, music, fashion and beautiful women. The world is constantly changing (just ask the Australian Aboriginies....) if you try and push against it, you will eventually be squashed by it. Look at the good parts and I'm sure you will notice many parts of your own lifestyle that you would never want to be without.

['Ross]

i reckon multiculturalisms :mad:
If they come over here they learn english. Learn our customs. and leave there way off life and abide by ours.
Its ours and they should respect that.


Just curious here, but what would you define as Australian customs and an Australian way of life? And just what should they be abiding to?

Not trying to flame you (plenty of others have and will don't worry about that) I just want to know what your idea of Australian life is.

[LyonsDJmetalheaD]

Bad week
I`m out of this thread guys.

[leitch]

Those lebanese guys in Sydney who thought they could run Australia.
yep, you definately have an in-depth understanding of current social issues within australia. congratulations, im proud of you

[LyonsDJmetalheaD]

Ok guys i was wrong "again"
Thats what i think multicultralism is.
anyways i`m having a bad week :(

i`m out

[LotteBum]

Ok guys i was wrong "again"
Thats what i think multicultralism is.
anyways i`m having a bad week :(

i`m out

Bad week or not, do they teach you ANYTHING at school these days? Do parents teach their kids ANYTHING other than how to dress like a f*cktard?

Lotte

[gravelclimber]

The genetic difference between two humans is nil. The human genome is the exactly same for all humans, there is no black genome, white genome, asian genome. The whole of human DNA is the same, that is what makes us one species Homo sapiens.

The genetic "differences", eg ginger hair, straight hair, curly hair, baldness, are to do with the expression of genes. That is what sections of the DNA molecule are being used to create the features we observe. It's the same DNA, only that different genes are being used to create the features.

Technically, that's incorrect. Genetic doesn't only refer to genes, it refers to the entire genome; coding, non-coding, regulatory etc. Racial differences are are result of a different sequence of base-pairs that make up DNA. Generally they are SNPs, or single nucleotide polymorphisms. That is, only one base-pair has changed. Sometimes they are in regulatory sequences as you have mentioned, but are also often they are in coding sequences in genes, which can lead to a change in a protein the gene 'produces' (usually only 1 amino acid of many).

As the changes are encoded in DNA and are heritable, they are genetic changes. Humans are not genetically identical.

Epigenetics, or heritable characteristics that aren't encoded in DNA, adds a whole new level of complexity to the story.

[Dumbellina]

Technically, that's incorrect. Genetic doesn't only refer to genes, it refers to the entire genome; coding, non-coding, regulatory etc. Racial differences are are result of a different sequence of base-pairs that make up DNA. Generally they are SNPs, or single nucleotide polymorphisms. That is, only one base-pair has changed. Sometimes they are in regulatory sequences as you have mentioned, but are also often they are in coding sequences in genes, which can lead to a change in a protein the gene 'produces' (usually only 1 amino acid of many).

As the changes are encoded in DNA and are heritable, they are genetic changes. Humans are not genetically identical.

Epigenetics, or heritable characteristics that aren't encoded in DNA, adds a whole new level of complexity to the story.

Thanks for the clarification. The distinction I was drawing was more at the macro level - if I compare the genome of two humans of different "races" what would be difference? At that scale the difference in the genome would be none or very little - singe base pairs of amino acids (amongst millions and millions). At the more micro level, the operation of single or groups of genes, there are subtle but very important differences between the DNA of two humans, that are inherited and what classify as sharing genetic descent.

It is obvious that my DNA is different to my father's, mother's, brother's, and my two daughters. But there may be enough commonality for us to have organs and blood transplanted. Similarly if our blood and tissue groups are the same I could get an organ/blood transplant from an black African, mongol asian, or a white European - so much for racial genetic differences!

But coming back to the race argument. When it comes to genetic diversity, black people are the most diverse and white people are the least (hence their suseptibility to certain genetic diseases, eg cystic fibrosis). But still at the macro level the differences are very small. The racist argument was that black people were so genetically different (and therefore inferior) to white people. But as it turns out black people and their genetic diversity makes them superior when it comes to resistance to certain diseases - and anyway the most gorgeous women in the world are mixed race!

[gravelclimber]

But coming back to the race argument. When it comes to genetic diversity, black people are the most diverse and white people are the least (hence their suseptibility to certain genetic diseases, eg cystic fibrosis). But still at the macro level the differences are very small. The racist argument was that black people were so genetically different (and therefore inferior) to white people.

From my understanding genetic diversity amongst sub-Saharan Africans is greater than among all other 'races' combined - something you're average creationist doesn't like to admit. Interesting I reckon.

Though there are some obvious differences between races (skin colour, lactose tolerance etc.), most importantly, there are no differences in mental abilities. We are all just as bad as each other.

But as it turns out black people and their genetic diversity makes them superior when it comes to resistance to certain diseases - and anyway the most gorgeous women in the world are mixed race!

I second that notion!!

[raquellish]

Here's a funny thing. My girlfriend is Maltese and has a typical mediterranian complexion. She goes out in the sun for half a day and she's brown as anything. Anyway, she works with a bunch of Indian teachers in her science dept. and they were discussing some racial issue, and the comment was "You'd understand because you're "black" like us".

Bloody idiots of all cultures are the problem. Let's ban bloody idiots.

Funny you should say that, my boyfriend is Maltese and the other day in the city some drunk guy nearly walked into him then staggered of saying "oh, sorry curry muncher" and while he does like curry quite a bit, he's not indian.
Its funny how quick everyone is to label one another....

If you study any evolution theory you might note that humans are all thought to have come from the same place in Africa - which blows the race theory right out of the water.

I agree; Lets Ban Blood Idiots, regardless of their cultural background.

Or better yet, educate them. I heard story about a kid of middle eastern-origin who burned the RSL flag during the Cronulla Riots.
In what is the coolest attitude Ive heard of in a while, the RSL instead of getting angry, made him a flag bearer in the Anzac Day parade, and is now sending him to walk to Kokoda trail.

Maybe those farkers who need a little cultural understanding could go trade places with someone from a different background for a while......