View Full Version : ppfffffffffftttt David Hicks; this guy's ten times more evil
gravelclimber
07-05-2007, 07:30 PM
Australia hands over man to US courts (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/05/06/1178390140855.html?page=2)
BEFORE he was extradited to the United States, Hew Griffiths, from Berkeley Vale in NSW, had never even set foot in America. But he had pirated software produced by American companies.
Now, having been given up to the US by former justice minister Chris Ellison, Griffiths, 44, is in a Virginia cell, facing up to 10 years in an American prison after a guilty plea late last month.
Griffiths' case — involving one of the first extraditions for intellectual property crime — has been a triumph for US authorities, demonstrating their ability to enforce US laws protecting US companies against Australians in Australia, with the co-operation of the Australian Government.
"Our agents and prosecutors are working tirelessly to nab intellectual property thieves, even where their crimes transcend international borders," US Attorney Chuck Rosenberg said.
In some corners of the Australian legal community, however, there is concern about Griffiths' case. In a recent article for the Australian Law Journal, NSW Chief Judge in Equity, Peter Young, wrote: "International copyright violations are a great problem. However, there is also the consideration that a country must protect its nationals from being removed from their homeland to a foreign country merely because the commercial interests of that foreign country are claimed to have been affected by the person's behaviour in Australia and the foreign country can exercise influence over Australia."
Griffiths, a Briton, has lived in Australia since the age of seven. From his home base on the central coast of NSW, he served as the leader of a group named Drink Or Die, which "cracked" copy-protected software and media products and distributed them free of cost. Often seen with long hair and bare feet, Griffiths did not make money from his activities, and lived with his father in a modest house.
But Drink or Die's activities did cost American companies money — an estimated $US50 million ($A60 million), if legal sales were substituted for illegal downloads undertaken through Drink or Die. It also raised the ire of US authorities.
In 2003, the US Department of Justice charged Griffiths with violating the copyright laws of the US, and requested his extradition from Australia. Senator Ellison signed a notice for Griffiths' arrest and Australian Federal Police arrested him at his home.
Griffiths fought the prospect of extradition through the courts for three years, in which time he was denied bail and detained in prison. He indicated that he would be willing to plead guilty to a breach of Australian copyright law, which meant he could serve time in Australia.
Last year, Griffiths ran out of avenues for appeal in Australia. His fate lay in the hands of Senator Ellison, who had the power to refuse Griffiths' extradition. But in December, Senator Ellison issued a warrant for extradition — a decision welcomed by the US Government. Griffiths' extradition in February is believed to be the first out of Australia for a breach of intellectual property law.
"This extradition represents the (US) Department of Justice's commitment to protect intellectual property rights from those who violate our laws from the other side of the globe," US Assistant Attorney-General Alice Fisher said.
But Justice Young described as "bizarre" the fact that "people are being extradited to the US to face criminal charges when they have never been to the US and the alleged act occurred wholly outside the US".
Griffiths appears to have been singled out by US authorities. British-based members of Drink or Die were reportedly tried in Britain. Last month, in news that slipped the local media's radar, Hew Griffiths pleaded guilty in a US District Court in Alexandria, Virginia, to criminal copyright infringement offences. According to US authorities, Griffiths admitted to overseeing all the illegal operations of the now-disbanded Drink Or Die.
On top of a possible 10-year jail term, Griffiths could be fined $US500,000. (By way of comparison, the average sentence for rape in Victoria is six years and 10 months.)
Any Australian who has pirated software worth more than $US1000 could be subject to the same extradition process as Griffiths was. "Should not the Commonwealth Parliament do more to protect Australians from this procedure?" Justice Young asked in his article. Others, however, argue that extradition is necessary to prevent internet crimes that transcend borders.
Griffiths will be sentenced on June 22.
An Australian bloke who pirates stuff, posts it internet for no profit, is held in jail for 3 years fighting extradition to a country he's never been to. All other non-US nationals in the same group are tried in their own countries. But our wonderful government sends him to the US to face more jail time than he would have if he'd committed rape here.
That's pretty f#$ked up. I thought we had our own justice system. Apparently not.
Matt H
07-05-2007, 07:42 PM
What c*nts. This calls for a fire bombing.
So were his parents american? Was he born in america?
Like you said that is very fucked up.
demo man
07-05-2007, 07:44 PM
our government sucks...
olly1oo6
07-05-2007, 08:05 PM
our wonderful government sends him to the US to face more jail time than he would have if he'd committed rape here
I don't know if thats saying more for the pitiful state of our justice system in relation to rape cases or or intellectual property laws and the government:p
Vicious_Fishes
07-05-2007, 08:16 PM
our government sucks...
tell me one that doesn't ?
nickmann
07-05-2007, 08:28 PM
cant be bothered reading it, but yeh he sounds pretty bad by looking at peoples responses!
johnny
07-05-2007, 08:46 PM
tell me one that doesn't ?
The Chinese Communist Party.
brisneyland
07-05-2007, 09:05 PM
cant be bothered reading it, but yeh he sounds pretty bad by looking at peoples responses!
Oh gee, thanks for your insightful contribution to this thread. Run along now, I think I hear another bandwagon coming.
The Chinese Communist Party.Automated response? :D
bazza
07-05-2007, 09:13 PM
The Chinese Communist Party.
fair for all!
Drizz
07-05-2007, 10:47 PM
The Chinese Communist Party.
Not hard to deliver when expectation are low. :)
Ruckus_Lord
07-05-2007, 11:03 PM
Ha. That's just fucked, all I can say...
scblack
08-05-2007, 07:12 AM
The Chinese Communist Party.
Thats the only response they would allow through the censor department.:D
I-AM-TEH-FASTEST-11
08-05-2007, 08:30 AM
the guy broke the law, willingly and knowingly. He should face jail time.. simple as that. Some fucks up, then they get fucked up.
I hate movie piracy, like with a passion.. so someone in shit for software piracy doesn't really tug on my heart strings..
maybe people will start learning not to be assholes now, you have to make examples.
p.s I realise that some dodgy jerk in Japan (or whereever) making dodgy copies of new movies then selling them in shitty containers for $5 bucks a piece is alot worse than some dude who just wanted to help people on the net get software they couldn't obtain/afford.. but it meh.. you can't make exclusions based on peoples motives.. can you?
edit: maybe you can. meh either way.. lets kill all the film pirates.. fair compromise?
scblack
08-05-2007, 08:44 AM
the guy broke the law, willingly and knowingly. He should face jail time.. simple as that. Some fucks up, then they get fucked up.
I agree.:cool:
He cracked American software, and delivered it electronically to Americans, knowingly and willingly. Or does the fact he did it for free, make it NOT a crime? - CRAP.
And he's not Australian, he's a pom, so shift him off ASAP.:D
Just remember, if you invent something and a person in another country rips off your idea, and sells it costing you millions - its not really a crime is it?:rolleyes:
toodles
08-05-2007, 08:52 AM
Meh, he deserves to cop it for getting himself caught, but 3 years in jail? :eek:
Fark man, I know people who have gotten less than that for grivieous bodily harm. And refused bail? What is he supposed to be a flight risk? Sounds like he is being made an example of, which IMO is a shitty thing to do to someone's life.
Ruckus_Lord
08-05-2007, 09:00 AM
the guy broke the law, willingly and knowingly. He should face jail time.. simple as that. Some fucks up, then they get fucked up.
I agree, he definantly deserved to be caught as movie piracy from a point of you (producers) ruins all the hard work you've put in; but, being sent the the U.S, possibly to serve more time in the cell than a person who commited rape?! That's just not right.
Movie piracy in my opinion should a matter of fines from copyright laws, isn't it somewhere up from the sum of $500'000 for movie piracy? Could be much more, not sure, but i don't think a crime such as this to be served locked away.
.. lets kill all the film pirates..
Even Captain Jack Sparrow?
Ruckus_Lord
08-05-2007, 09:21 AM
Even Captain Jack Sparrow?
Haha mate you're pulling out all the material today, arn't you?:p
red death
08-05-2007, 09:38 AM
he shoulda been charged under Australian law (coz that's where the law was broken) & if convicted should spend time in an Australian gaol.
If he had committed the crime in USA then returned to Oz it would have been correct to extradite him for trial under US law.
Why do we sub contract justice out to the yanks?
thecat
08-05-2007, 09:51 AM
I agree.:cool:
He cracked American software, and delivered it electronically to Americans, knowingly and willingly. Or does the fact he did it for free, make it NOT a crime? - CRAP.
He was like robinhood
without the arrows, tights, merry men or women really.
He was caught and should face the punishment for his crime but as an aussie citizen who brake an Australian law in Australia he should be charged here under our laws.
Ruckus_Lord
08-05-2007, 10:06 AM
He was caught and should face the punishment for his crime but as an aussie citizen who brake an Australian law in Australia he should be charged here under our laws.
Who would have thought this is an MTB site?:cool::p
scblack
08-05-2007, 10:06 AM
He was like robinhood
without the arrows, tights, merry men or women really.
But this company he stole the software from (by cracking it) they were not the evil dark side like the Sheriff of Nottingham.:D
Hahaha, not QUITE a fair analogy.:cool:
demo man
08-05-2007, 10:07 AM
He was caught and should face the punishment for his crime but as an aussie citizen who brake an Australian law in Australia he should be charged here under our laws.
yep. No problems with him being punished, but it's hardly fair to charge someone under the laws of another country when in fact they never agreed to obey them (as you would have to do to enter that country).
Trial him here, punish him here. This is where he commited the crime..
But seriously folks, rather than put him in jail, which in both USA & Aus are overcrowded, why not just ban his arse from using a computer & have a parole officer check in on him every week, or use one of those electronic bracelets to track his movements.
red death
08-05-2007, 10:14 AM
But seriously folks, rather than put him in jail, which in both USA & Aus are overcrowded, why not just ban his arse from using a computer & have a parole officer check in on him every week, or use one of those electronic bracelets to track his movements.
naa it'd be much more effective to put him inside with the hardened crims so he can learn to do other sorts of crime as well... :confused:
Andy.G
08-05-2007, 12:24 PM
Would this mean we can expect the Indonesian Government to deliver us a metric ton of DVD market sellers from Bali ?? Are they not breaking Australian copyright law, and selling back to Australians ??
You would reckon if they can make the uber-tech software they could make it secure from piracy ?? I mean, seriously, shouldn't they just use him as a security benchmark ??
"Try harder you super-brains ... that hairy Jesus-lookin dude in Oz just sold version 9.2 on the net ..."
red death
08-05-2007, 12:56 PM
"Try harder you super-brains ... that hairy Jesus-lookin dude in Oz just sold version 9.2 on the net ..."
they'd be better off offering him a job. He's obviously got some skills!
Customjimmy
08-05-2007, 01:11 PM
"Griffiths' case — involving one of the first extraditions for intellectual property crime — has been a triumph for US authorities, demonstrating their ability to enforce US laws protecting US companies against Australians in Australia, with the co-operation of the Australian Government."
Well think what you like about the suitability of the punishment but the quote above is pretty farkin scary I reckon.
demonstrating their ability to enforce US laws protecting US companies against Australians in Australia
This means that the potential is there for anybody to be subject to any new US corporate laws (and the yanks have some ripper ideas on that front) and be extradited from Australia and gaoled (or i suppose it would be jailed), even if they didn't break any Australian law. That principle, my friends, is fucked.
Andy.G
08-05-2007, 01:20 PM
That principle, my friends, is fucked.
Oh yes it is ... totally, totally fucked.
Isn't buggery illegal in a couple of US states ??
Better watch out Kevin Andrews, your treatment of the Australian working people may get you deported ... you plastic-haired prick.
Whaa ... maybe thats too much coffee Andy.G :p
toodles
08-05-2007, 01:27 PM
"Griffiths' case — involving one of the first extraditions for intellectual property crime — has been a triumph for US authorities, demonstrating their ability to enforce US laws protecting US companies against Australians in Australia, with the co-operation of the Australian Government."
Well think what you like about the suitability of the punishment but the quote above is pretty farkin scary I reckon.
demonstrating their ability to enforce US laws protecting US companies against Australians in Australia
This means that the potential is there for anybody to be subject to any new US corporate laws (and the yanks have some ripper ideas on that front) and be extradited from Australia and gaoled (or i suppose it would be jailed), even if they didn't break any Australian law. That principle, my friends, is fucked.
Damn straight. Next they'll be applying their patent infringement laws against other country's civilians as well.
What a crock - the Australian government is the most gutless, arse-licking organisation I've seen.
red death
08-05-2007, 01:42 PM
unless there is a law against the same crime in Australia you cannot be extradited to another country. So you dont need to worry about the buggery thing :eek: (unless you're in Tassie or have they changed that now?)
but I do reckon you should be trialled under the law of the land where the crime was allgedly committed. So David Hicks should have been dealt with under the Afganistan law if one applied. Or perhpas under Australian treason laws when & if he returned to Australia (p'haps that's what they're planning?)
except for torture crimes which has some sort of UN covenant about it requiring all UN members to prosecute under their own laws wherever the crime was committed. Currently the German Courts are deciding whether to indite some US servicemen over alleged torture offence in Afganistan (or was it Iraq?) But I bet they wont have the balls......
Hopper
08-05-2007, 02:12 PM
Thinking about it, this is WAY fucked up in terms of patent law. When you take out a patent on something, you need to apply for everywhere you want it. So you get a patent in North America, Australia, NZ, Britain, Eurpoean Union (and then some of these countries ask for a specific patent to be held in their country) different countries of Asia and Africa etc. Every patent costs money for each country. Patent and copyright laws are specific to each country (or so I thought). So I would have thought that this guy was breaking an AUSTRALIAN LAW that an American company applied for.
Many companies don't take out patents in certain places as it just gets too expensive. so using the logic of this case, a company could apply for one single patent in America and then presecute anyone in the world in any country, even one they haven't taken a patent claim to.....
Yes this guy should get punished but he should be punished by the law he broken, Australian copyright infringement, not American copyright infringement.
PINT of Stella, mate!
08-05-2007, 04:16 PM
Y'all realise that this sets a precedent whereby every single one of you thieving gypsy bastards with your grubby little file sharing programmes and vast libraries of swapped MP3s could potentially be sent to San Quentin for pissing off the might of Sony BMG, Time Warner etc.
Now you can argue about the morality of music, movie and software piracy till the cows come home. What I find sickening here, is just how willing the present Australian government are to ship off their own citizens to face incarceration just to appease our new imperial overlords...
Chopper says "Harden the fuck up, Australia!"
Matt H
08-05-2007, 04:23 PM
In response to your post POSM:
Wooooooooot, Bit Torrent FTW!! :p
pavey
08-05-2007, 04:38 PM
Damn straight. Next they'll be applying their patent infringement laws against other country's civilians as well.
What a crock - the Australian government is the most gutless, arse-licking organisation I've seen.
too true.
our damn government would rather be little brown nosers to the U.S and send us off to them for a larger sentance then keep us here for a better deal.
thats just weak.
@nDr3w
08-05-2007, 05:08 PM
What I don't understand is why an American prison?
Surely John Howard's arse would have more room, even with his own head, sense of decency and George W up there?
Just doesn't make sense to me...
Rider15
08-05-2007, 05:15 PM
is just how willing the present Australian government are to ship off their own citizens to face incarceration just to appease our new imperial overlords...
Agreed, government should learn that they shouldnt just give America what it wants.
What a crock - the Australian government is the most gutless, arse-licking organisation I've seen.
Our relationship with the US has something to do with nether regions but I dont think its licking them.:rolleyes:
cheers jon
Don't quote me here.
I am almost sure that if an American citizen acted in the same way and pirated intellectual property which belonged to Australian software company there is no way in hell they would face the same treatment because the US, as far as I am aware has no extradition treaties with ANYONE that would allow an American citizen to be extradited ANYWHERE for ANYTHING (correct me if I am wrong.)
Beyond a joke really.
red death
09-05-2007, 03:09 PM
Don't quote me here.
I am almost sure that if an American citizen acted in the same way and pirated intellectual property which belonged to Australian software company there is no way in hell they would face the same treatment because the US, as far as I am aware has no extradition treaties with ANYONE that would allow an American citizen to be extradited ANYWHERE for ANYTHING (correct me if I am wrong.)
Beyond a joke really.
Australia has had an extradition treaty with the USA since 1976. You can read the articles here (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_reg/esoar465/sch1.html).
Between 1931 & 1976 extradition relied on a UK law as applied to Australia a Commonwealth country.
Thanks, obviously I have been misinformed.
I hate when I'm wrong.
bools
10-05-2007, 12:39 AM
It serves Dave right .Daves Dad will probable be happy thats Davids not a home bludging of him . David will get some shoes and maybe even a root in jail . The guys probable chuffed .
scblack
10-05-2007, 07:44 AM
It serves Dave right .Daves Dad will probable be happy thats Davids not a home bludging of him . David will get some shoes and maybe even a root in jail . The guys probable chuffed .
Hahaha, thats quite funy.:p Good bit of humour.
red death
10-05-2007, 11:49 AM
I think you meawn Hew Griffiths, not Dave whoever! Read the 1st post.
eternalgorias
10-05-2007, 02:08 PM
Better get ready for more cases like this, especially for the major pirate players. As the ecconomy moves in a more global direction, each countries business law jurisdictions are going to get blurred, they'll have to. Maybe if Australia got this guy quicker we wouldent have to hand him over to the yanks. No doubt he broke American laws he agreed to by violating the products 'terms of service agreement'. I'm sure this case is more complex than "he commited the crime here, he should be punished here".
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