Steel Fencing for Mountain Cross

[Robbie Mac]

Hello Farkiners,

After recent discussions regarding the Bid Document from MTBA outlining the hosting requirements for the upcoming National Mountain Cross Series I feel that it should be brought to the attention of the riding public about the MTBA plans to enforce steel fencing atop all berms.

Some of you will have seen the type of fencing in question and the main reasons set forth by the MTBA for the use of this fencing is a) crowd control, b) rider protection ie. Stopping riders flying off the back of berms and c) professional placement of signage.

Whilst I agree that steel fencing is the best form of crowd control and support any attempt made to make our racing look more professional, I disagree that placing steel fencing on top of berms is a sensible enforcement.

Certain courses that are built into the hill such as SOPA whereby the fencing can be set back from the top of the berm are examples of how this type of fencing can be used appropriately given the space between the top of the berm and the crowd, however in cases where the back of the berm is steep and has no place for the steel fencing other than the immediate top of the berm, I feel that the fencing could indeed be of danger to the riders.

Being a rider myself as well as having spectated and ran many Mountain Cross events and bearing in mind that the suggestions put forth by the MTBA have not been made by anyone who has competed in mountain cross competition I would much rather see the fencing be used as a deterrent for spectators to congregate atop the berm thus positioning the fencing out and away from the back of the berm. Furthermore I have no wish to see a rider get pushed high and subsequently be shunned directly into a steel fence. I believe that this will endanger the rider in more ways than it will protect the rider as they are colliding with a steel barrier as opposed to landing on dirt and the possibility of being entangled in the steel fencing is also very apparent.

Rather than me argue my point of view solely with the MTBA I hope to use the feedback generated by this forum to form a better understanding of the riders point of view and based on this feedback I will either accept MTBA's decision or object to their suggested enforcement of steel barriers atop of berms where there is not ample opportunity to set the barrier back from the course edge.

I look forward to reviewing your thoughts and feelings and thank you all in advance for your time spent putting forward your comments.

Cheers

Robbie McNaughton
Australian Mountain Cross

[nicho]

I m going to back you up on this one robbie.
Fencing for advertising etc.. ok as long as it doesn t become a hazard for riders. I can only imagine a few riders hitting a berm together and one gets pushed out and gets his foot or hand caught in a rail going full throttle could be very damaging.

Have you thought about proposing another alternative lihe haye stacks or something a little safer for spectators and riders.

Just an idea.

nicho

[sammydog]

Does the documentation outline the form the steel fencing must take?? If I am correct in assuming it is the steel barriers commonly used at the finish areas of MTBA events (and as crowd control at concerts, etc), then I'm not sure that this is a great solution for all tracks. …..Looks like you’ve posted a pic that confirms my assumption…..

Certainly some tracks I have been to, there would be stability issues with attempting to site these fences atop of berms, and quiet possible significant modification of trails needed to make them stable enough to be safe. I would be curious to know how stable these fences are on rough, uneven ground.

As a rider, a barrier such as this is not something I would like to collide with at speed. An errant flailing arm or leg placed through the fence at a wrong time is a recipe for disaster. Throw speed and other riders into the mix, and the potential for serious injury as a direct result of a barrier such of this increases. I don't think it is a good direction for the sport to be looking to implement any feature that will unnecessarily compromise the safety of a rider.

I can understand and agree with the concept of making sponsors banners as visible as possible, however, this should in no way compromise the safety of anyone riding or viewing the track. As nicho has pointed out, something far less damaging and solid, such as hay bails could be a better alternative to solve the issue of product placement.

I think rather than have this as a blanket proscriptive standard for all tracks, the guidelines would better serve the sport, its participants, sponsors and spectators by setting objectives and performance based criteria for achieving the same result. The blanket one fence fits all is a recipe for disaster if implemented.

All I can think is that if these barriers are put in place with no regards to riders or physical constraints of individual tracks, someone will get hurt.

[Lemontime]

In the case of SOPA, I think I'd rather roll down the hill than smash into a steel fence at full pelt..

[sendog]

that seems just plain dangerous in my opinion
(being a rider)

[djfr]

wouldnt the plastic mesh saftey barriers be safer

[mtbmamma]

We could use the solid plastic barriers that you can fill with water. At least there are no areas for riders to catch arms or legs on these barriers and if you hit them then, although they stay put, at least they have some flex and will absorb some of the impact and hence, lessen any damage to riders.:)

[atsunD]

yeah I don't see how the steel fencing will protect the fans and the possibility of getting tangled up is pretty high
the plastic water filled barriers would be much better idea - at least the riders will bounce off them rather than become part of it

[thecat]

It's a tough call.

The plastic water filled barriers would cost an absolute fortune for delivery alone, (You can only fit so many on a truck) and need an army of volunteers to set out and pack up.

eg 2 of us packed 170 of the steel fences into a pantec on our own. I'm guessing you get 6-10 of the plastic barriers into the same truck which means at least 17 times the delivery bill.

If the steel barriers were completely covered with core-flute signage would that make them safer in that arms and legs are less likely to become entangled?

I think Sammydog's idea of having guidelines of what needs to be achieved without spelling out exactly how that is achieved would give a far better scope to make a track by track call based on all the factors, safety highest amongst them.

[BOBCATZZ]

Iagree no way i would want to hit a fence poles holding brattice type material or any thing else .Allso at the moment some tracks are on private property and the cost of putting up permanant fencing or hireing would just for clubbys would be ludicrus .
All i want to no is what incident has started this stupidity if any.BMX AU has over the last couple of years tried to make tracks install gates across the start hill to prevent clowns hurting them selves instead of looking at why they hurt them selves (track design) this was a hurryed not thought out cure to fa as tracks like liverpool have a easy first straight 2 tables and on the third have 3 dirt jump style jumps 7/8/8.5meters so work that one out ride of 2nd corner mach10 sraight into the biggest jumps on the track .
Also to you idiots who have nothing to do but sit around and think of useless tripe such as this why not think ways to get more land and ways to excell our sport not stop it .
This how lads like Robbie M, Barnsey ,Steve(WSMB) think and thats how the sport is where it is now!

[Jordy]

MTBA are off their friken head!



I would be inclined to put fencing around the base of the berm to keep spectators away from the riders and to help protect the riders I suggest something like the moto's use ,moto ones are a foam block with a sponsors cover. MTBA could get the covers made and put them over hay bails instead.



just an idea

[barnesy]

Rob, in these times of Risk Management, Risk Assessment and the Risk matrix. I cannot believe they think the treatment for crowd control is steel fencing. I was not happy when they erected the steel fencing around SOPA for last years MTNX. To make it mandatory is absurd. The average size of the Risk Assessment document I do for every track (MTNX, BMX, Jump) Geoff and I do is about 40 pages. I would not even consider including steel fences near the perimeter of a track as a 'treatment' for a crowd problem. I can only guess that the officials that made this decision have not had enough crashes? Nor seen crowds tripping over steel fences? Way too many issues.
.
Tape and plastic bollards with rubber bases are an option. Safe, easy to install and remove and can be hired. A few officials here and there to assist with the crowd staying behind them. Some of the other guys have made some good suggestions also. Whatever the fencing..it should be SOFT. Perhaps they want to look at the BMXA rules in relations to Risk Management and the perimeter of a track. It doesn't allow fencing like this near the track edge.

[arpit]

Reminds me of the safety initiatives which inflicted these upon our roads and our motorcyclists:

http://www.cookes.co.nz/cookes/cookes/brifen2.jpg

[BrumbyJack]

Perhaps the MTBA need to talk to the SSA, Snow Sports Australia, or whatever they are called today ;)

They have safety fences on the berms in Skiercross and Boardercross, however they are plastic safety netting on flexible Slalom poles.

I believe steel fences have NO place on a MTNX cross and feel that they are a real PLI issue and an accident just waiting to happen :(

As a rider I would be very cautious of riding high up the berm as an arm or leg though the fence at my age would be very bad news.

More homework required by the MTBA in my opinion, knee jerk reactions are NOT the way to go.

BTW, fencing out spectators is a separate issue, again they should look to snowsports for ideas. Spectator fencing can be away from the sides of the course and needs to be safe enough that an airborne rider can't impale themselves on the poles. That moveable fencing in the first photo is pretty good for that purpose.

[CrookS]

Ridiculous idea from mtba. If there was a ply covering the entire frame so you couldnt go through the gaps maybe. I would of thought a para webbing (nets the skiiers use) would of been safer.